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Searched for: montreal
04 May 2014 16:19
  • Digger
  • Digger's Avatar
Hi Phoenix,

My boyfriend and I recently purchased a new queen-sized mattress to replace the one that he'd had for 14 years. I'm not sure what it had in it, but he claims it was air pockets (no coils), although there were no adjustment mechanisms for it so I don't think it was an airbed. In any case, it had a pillow top on both sides with what I assume was polyurethane foam. I don't remember the model, but it was one of the "S" brands. He was ok with it (aside from some back pain in the morning, which he says is the norm for him after lying down too long), but I felt it was pretty saggy and didn't offer great back support.

I did some research and thought that a latex mattress would do the trick, based on excellent reviews (on your site and several others I consulted), its durability, and the hope that it would help with my boyfriend's dust allergies. We ended up purchasing one from Literie Laurier in Montreal (which I learned about from your site). It's got an 8 inch firm talalay support layer (can't remember the ILD info), and a three-inch 28 ILD talalay topper that's removable. We had a platform made for it, with the total coming to $2650 CAD. It sure felt great in the showroom -- we both loved it.

I slept on it well the first night. My boyfriend, on the other hand, woke up with massive back pain. I urged him to give it a chance to see if his body would get used to it. But after almost a week of pain and zero sleep, he refused to sleep on it anymore. He moved into the spare bedroom, which has a firm coil mattress and a 2 inch topper of memory foam that I bought from Costco years ago before we met. (We decided against a memory foam mattress, incidentally, as he didn't like the quicksand feeling of it, and we both tend to sleep hot. Also, over the Easter weekend we slept on a medium-firm memory foam mattress at my parents and that also caused him pain). He's not a fan of the mattress in our spare bedroom (again, too hard), but he seemed to find it preferable to sleeping on our new mattress. Meanwhile, I can happily sleep on any of the beds described so far (heat from the memory foam notwithstanding). To try to address the problem, I arranged to exchange the 28 ILD topper for something softer. The guy at Literie Laurier suggested we try a 21 ILD. Since they didn't have it in 3 inch layers, he put two 2 inch layers in one (giving us an extra inch in the comfort layer). We brought it home, and he slept reasonably well on it the first couple of nights, but this time I was miserable. It's like I'm sinking into it too much, so much so that when I lie on my side it feels like my lower ribs are close to touching my hipbone (mind you, I've got pronounced thoracic scoliosis, so there's that to consider as well). When I lie on my back, I can feel pain emanating across my mid- and upper back. So now I've moved into the spare bedroom.

At first it seemed like the solution was simple: we would have a topper custom made that's 21 ILD on his side, and 28 ILD on mine. But then he came to me after the third night and told me that he's now waking up with some back pain with the 21 ILD topper … although it's still not as bad as what he experienced with the 28 ILD (and maybe comparable to what he had with the old mattress). We happened to go away this weekend and I'm guessing the mattress at the hotel was a medium-firm (foam over coil support base) because I slept fine, while he said he felt much as he did when he was on the 28 ILD … like his hips are being pushed up and not sinking in sufficiently.

My boyfriend is 45 years old, and primarily a side sleeper who also sleeps on his back. He's 5"10 and about 170 pounds, and carries a bit of extra weight in his stomach. I don't think his hips are particularly wide though, so I was surprised that he feels he doesn't sink into a medium firm mattress enough. I'm 42 years old, and sleep on both my back and sides. I'm 5'7, weigh about 130 pounds, and am not especially curvy … not an hourglass figure anyway. I'm not sure if this matters, but I do intensive yoga a few times a week to keep my core reasonably strong (trying to keep back pain from scoliosis in check), whereas my boyfriend doesn't exercise much (so maybe there are other issues that a mattress can't be expected to completely fix?)

According to what I've been reading, a medium-firm mattress is found by most people to cause the least amount of back pain, that lighter people tend to prefer a softer mattress, and that heavier people tend to prefer a firmer mattress. So I don't know what to make of the fact that I'm the lighter party who sinks uncomfortably into a soft comfort layer and prefers the medium-firm option, whereas medium-firm pushes my boyfriend's hips up. I also don't know what mattress would be appropriate for him at this point since he now wishes we'd never gotten rid of the old mattress, although the 21 ILD option seems to be the least offensive of all available options (although still not providing a totally pain-free sleep). In his opinion, we've spent too much money to be having these problems, and that he's seen tons of ads for cheaper mattresses, so why not just go with that? I've tried to explain that these are likely inexpensive for a reason (poor quality materials), and that we don't want to find ourselves with a saggy mattress problem again if we cheap out and buy something from one of the big chains (e.g. Dormez Vous, Leon's, The Brick).

We have a thirty-day return policy for our mattress that runs out in less than two weeks. We don't know whether we should return the whole thing and start shopping all over again ... or take a chance and have a likely non-refundable "his-and-hers" topper made (21/28 ILD) ... or buy a king-size frame and each of us buy whatever XL long twin mattress we want … or take up permanent residence in separate bedrooms …

Any advice would be very much appreciated.
16 Apr 2014 17:25
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Raphy,

We've done a lot of research on your site for months- almost obsessively so - thanks so much!
What I mean by foam is a dense foam without springs that is almost akin
to a firm couch. Not so firm that it's a rock however.


I would keep in mind that with polyfoam and memory foam density is a measurement of quality and durability not of firmness. In other words ... for these two types of foam ... density is a "quality specification" and firmness is a "comfort specification". Any density of polyfoam and memory foam can come in a wide range of firmness levels. With latex it's different and the density of the foam changes with firmness levels so density is more of a "comfort spec" with latex not a quality spec.

I think we had wishful thinking- perhaps
hoping you'd say that yes Geoethic is all natural..


All memory foam and polyfoam is mostly made from petrochemicals. The closest to an "all natural" foam material would be 100% natural Talalay or Dunlop latex that don't use any synthetic rubber in their formula but even with these there will be a small percentage of other substances used to make the foamed latex core (see post #8 here ).

That said we are in Montreal so please fire away
suggestions.


You are very fortunate to be in the Montreal area because you have many local manufacturers and some great options available to you. The better options and possibilities I'm aware of there are listed in post #276 here .

A forum search on Montreal (you can just click this) will also bring up more information and feedback from other forum members in the area.

Phoenix
16 Apr 2014 14:59
  • Raphy
  • Raphy's Avatar
Hi Phoenix

We've done a lot of research on your site for months- almost obsessively so - thanks so much!
What I mean by foam is a dense foam without springs that is almost akin
to a firm couch. Not so firm that it's a rock however.
Magniflex actually makes those kinds of mattresses however
we still go back to foam is foam... and without the memory top, it's less
interesting insofar as pressure point relief. We were hoping to avoid synthetics
and originally were attracted to wool but then we realized it's firm
to the point of hard. The Geoethic was heavenly that
way- firm on the support but allowed for some
sinking that my wife found akin to a physio session in that
finally felt relief on the sore areas- hips- back.

However our kids are very young (toddler/baby)
so it's obviously not a good idea for now. I think
we had wishful thinking- perhaps
hoping you'd say that yes Geoethic is all natural..
... with all the 'greenwashing' that goes
on, we were quite hesitant.
Oh well.
That said we are in Montreal so please fire away
suggestions. Ordering a mattress when we've
had such bad luck with ours is unfortunately
not a possibility. We need to test..

Raphy
25 Feb 2014 11:55
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi npfd,

I should also reinforce that the list that CentralPA linked (thanks CentralPA :)) includes the better options I'm aware of in the Montreal area and would certainly be the options I would focus on.

You are fortunate to have so many good choices in the area.

Phoenix
23 Feb 2014 15:45
  • CentralPA
  • CentralPA's Avatar
Hi npfd,

@CentralPA, thank you for your input.
I do admit getting in touch with manufacturers was really hard.... managed to get in touch with someone at Kingsdown, they provided the info required in terms of coils.... info I asked. I'm surprised Simmons didn't do more than that.... which kind of bed did you get?
As for online ordering I'm a bit skeptical and feel more comfortable in person..


I believe it was the Simmons Recharge Sarah.... but I am not a 100% sure. Simmons uses a bunch of different names for the same bed so it makes it hard to compare between stores. I found this to be a particular annoying practice of all the major bed manufacturers.

I will say my wife and I went the online route after careful testing locally. We found that this seemed to be the best option for us. However we did try out some latex beds specificially the Pure Latex Bliss and Savvy Rest.

I would think in the Montreal area there should be some quality sleep shops. There is a reference list that Phoenix compiled for Montreal here

I would also echo Phoenix's point as if someone is not willing to tell you all the layers in a bed then it is probable a good idea to stay away from them. I mean if you have nothing to hide then why don't you disclose the information to your consumers.

Of course I found this out the hard way....
22 Feb 2014 19:13
  • npfd
  • npfd's Avatar
Thank you Pheonix and CentralPA!

@Pheonix, I have read the guides again and I am located in Montreal, Canada, thank you again for the input.

@CentralPA, thank you for your input.
I do admit getting in touch with manufacturers was really hard.... managed to get in touch with someone at Kingsdown, they provided the info required in terms of coils.... info I asked. I'm surprised Simmons didn't do more than that.... which kind of bed did you get?
As for online ordering I'm a bit skeptical and feel more comfortable in person..

Or i go the Simmons route, knowing that I 'think' i'm getting a solid coil construction that should not sag for several years.... and if it really gets too hard to deal with get a latex topper...

Or I try out the Kingsdown route, and if sag does occur that bothers me is there any way around it? and the 13.75 vs 14.5 coil gauge, and similar number of coils a big deal in terms of durability?

Thank you both again
30 Jan 2014 20:22
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi The_brooke,

Hey Phoenix, I wanted to let you know that I have read all of the guides, and all of your posts, and sub-linked posts. I especially liked your post about warranties (Every sentence I was saying "halleluiah", "halleluiah" hahahahaha). Thank you for this knowledge, and it is power to make the correct decisions.


I'm glad it could help you :)


-5" or 6" HD poly-foam 3lbs in IDF of 32-38 (I can have anywhere in that range) (note, the floor model they have is either soft or firm, I liked the soft, and will thus get the medium foam since I have read all of your posts about durability).

- 3.5" of 5 pound (apparently its 5.2 pound) memory foam with an IDF of 10-18

- A nice terry towel envelope

The price too is very good, and the foam is made in Canada (Montreal) by VitaFoam (to high standards). This is a luxury item !


These are all good quality materials and there are no weak links in any of them. I would let your testing and your body decide on the "comfort specs" (the ILD/IFD)

The only question that I still am pondering is whether to get 5" or 6" base of 3lb poly foam?


I would also treat this as a preference choice and base the decision on your personal testing for PPP because one really isn't any "better" than the other outside of which one is the best "match" for you or "feels" better to you.

Phoenix
30 Jan 2014 18:47
  • The_brooke
  • The_brooke's Avatar
Hey Phoenix, I wanted to let you know that I have read all of the guides, and all of your posts, and sub-linked posts. I especially liked your post about warranties (Every sentence I was saying "halleluiah", "halleluiah" hahahahaha). Thank you for this knowledge, and it is power to make the correct decisions.


On to the good bits

one of the companies that I mentioned above (with the connection to Vita Foam) is 7 Futons. I asked, and they delivered a quote for me with the following specs:

My stats

- 6 feet tall
- 154 lbs, (of yogi)
- side sleeper (I wake up on my side, seriously)

My future bed

-5" or 6" HD poly-foam 3lbs in IDF of 32-38 (I can have anywhere in that range) (note, the floor model they have is either soft or firm, I liked the soft, and will thus get the medium foam since I have read all of your posts about durability).

- 3.5" of 5 pound (apparently its 5.2 pound) memory foam with an IDF of 10-18

- A nice terry towel envelope

The price too is very good, and the foam is made in Canada (Montreal) by VitaFoam (to high standards). This is a luxury item !


The only question that I still am pondering is whether to get 5" or 6" base of 3lb poly foam?
27 Jan 2014 10:28
  • Laura1965
  • Laura1965's Avatar
I have spent the last couple of weeks lurking on this website, reading loads of information, and am very thankful for all the information here! But I am getting close to making a decision, and feel like I need help.

I currently have an old tempurpedic mattress, and my dh sleeps hot. We will never go back to a spring mattress - foam has been good to us as far as back/shoulder pain relief and comfort is concerned. We are both on the heavy side - 200-225 lbs - he's 6'2 I'm 5'5.

This website has made me want to look more at latex mattresses, but the only ones I could find were Nature's Rest, and I hated both of them. I felt like it was a fluffy pillow on top of a hard/springy base. I like the "in the mattress" feel of tempur/memory foam mattresses. I have tried a Kingsdown Select Enchantment mattress that lists a 6" 32ILD Latex Core along with a bunch of other layers - Kingsfoam, Memory foam, Arctic Wave, et cetera. Loved that mattress, hated the huge pricetag. I tried the Tempur line - liked the Cool Luxe and the Cool Luxe Cloud (I think those were the names) and we also tried the iComfort line and like the Epic model in the Directions line. I also tried the Blu-Tek line and loved their softest model, seems I like them soft or plush. These all had some sort of gel/cooling mixed in with memory foam in the comfort layers. I would be a lot happier with a price closer to $1500 than $5000...

So my questions: Is it possible to find a showroom where you can try a bunch of different latex mattress configurations? I am in northern VT and Phoenix has said it is a "mattress desert" up here, I would agree... I can consider driving to St. Jean Quebec or even Montreal, but have fears regarding a language barrier, also wonder about trucking a mattress back across the border. Based on my experience with Nature's Rest, will I have a hard time finding a latex mattress I like? I hate to keep chasing down a dream if it's never going to come true... I feel like I could be happy with a mattress from an online retailer if they can help pin down a comfort level for me based on what we've tried out.

Thanks in advance for any advice you can give me!

Laura
01 Dec 2013 22:23
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi PBFG,

Any idea about mattress retailers in Montreal?


Sorry ... I should have included a link in my last reply.

There are many good options in the Montreal area which has more factory direct manufacturers than most other cities in North America. They are listed in post #276 here .

A forum search on Montreal (you can just click this) will also bring up more comments and feedback from others in the area.

Phoenix
01 Dec 2013 21:27
  • PBFG
  • PBFG's Avatar
Any idea about mattress retailers in Montreal?
01 Dec 2013 09:36
  • PBFG
  • PBFG's Avatar
Wow, thanks! That does help clear things up quite a bit.

I'm actually Canadian, a Montrealer - if you have any information about ideal mattress retailers around here, that would be excellent!

Thanks,
Paul
31 Aug 2013 14:26
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Nancie,

I have gone to two Montreal locations recommended here and have had two very different suggestions. The first, from Claude (wonderful guy!) at Matelas Personnel (?). He recommended Talalay latex/bio foam combo. 3" latex/3 inch 40 foam/3 " latex. The latex is medium firm-I don't recall if he gave me an IDA number. COver is bamboo lined with wool and silk. The bed can be flipped. I liked it but felt it was a it hard on my shoulder. He said he could adjust the foam middle to a 38" on the upper and lower thirds and leave the 40 in the middle. This would allow my shoulders to drop a little further. The price for this was about $1400 Queen.


The materials in this two sided latex hybrid appear to be good quality but I would want to know the quality (density) of the polyfoam used in the base layer. Of course it would also be important to make sure that any mattress is suitable in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) because no matter what the quality or value of a mattress if you can't sleep on it then it would have little value to you. Just in case you haven't read it yet ... post #1 here has all the basic information you will need to make the best possible choices both in terms of suitability and in terms of quality and value.

He also had me try an other bed which was foam with an "aqua gel" comfort layer...it felt very good but I was a little concerned about how well aquagel would wear as I have not heard of it.


The "aqua gel" is probably a name for gel memory foam but it's always important to make sure you know both the type and quality of every layer or component in any mattress you are considering. Foam materials will either be polyfoam, memory foam (including gel memory foam) or latex although there may be hundreds of "proprietary names" or variations for each of them. With polyfoam and memory foam ... density is the most important factor in its durability. with latex ... the type and blend of the latex is the information you need (although almost all latex is a high quality and durable material).

At Literie Laurier we tried a very different bed. The topper was 3" 28 ida and the bottom support was 8" 44-x firm IDA Talalay latex. Then wool and bamboo cover. It had more of a sinking feeling but I would think the bases would keep things quite firm. This bed was significantly more expensive. $2200 I think...but it was a few weeks back so I need to verify.


This is "all latex" instead of a latex/polyfoam hybrid and since latex is a more costly material than polyfoam this will be reflected in the price. Once again though your own careful and objective testing will determine how suitable the mattress is for your needs and preferences. ILD or IFD (the firmness/softness of a foam material) is a "comfort spec" and not a 'quality spec" and is really not important information when you are testing mattresses locally because your body and your testing will tell you all you need to know about PPP.

I have read about the support and comfort layers. I have always had a BAD experience with pillow-tops and so my last bed didn't have one. But the coil I have now is hard and full of full or pressure points.


The biggest issue wth a pillow top is not the pillowtop construction itself but the quality and durability of the materials in the pillowtop. The "weak link" of any mattress is almost always the quality of the materials in the top layers and if you have good quality materials in a pillowtop then it can be a very durable mattress. The problem is that most pillowtops (and most mainstream mattresses that aren't pillowtops as well) is that they use too much lower density polyfoam in the upper layers which can soften and break down much too quickly.

Do these two beds make sense for a back and side sleeper? And should being able to flip the bed be a major consideration with latex?


Only your own testing or experience can tell you whether a mattress is suitable for your specific body type and sleeping positions (see post #2 here ). Every person can be different even if they have a similar body type and sleeping positions. Your own careful and objective testing (following the testing guidelines) is the most effective way to know if a mattress is suitable for you regardless of how suitable it may be for anyone else or based on any "theory at a distance".

While latex is the most durable type of foam ... any mattress that is two sided will last longer than a similar mattress that is one sided. The tradeoff is that a one sided design is more limited because too much soft foam on the bottom of a mattress can affect support and alignment. A one sided mattress can put the firmest layer on the bottom and then use more progressively firmer layers of foam on top of the support layer which gives more design flexibility to create a wider range of comfort, support, and "feels" because the softer layers on top aren't part of the bottom support layers of the mattress.

You certainly have some very good options in the Montreal area and a forum search on " Montreal " (you can just click this) will bring up more feedback as well.:)

Phoenix
31 Aug 2013 06:07
  • Nancie
  • Nancie's Avatar
Hi
I am in my fifties with chronic joint pain (back, shoulder , hip...). I have had it with my coil mattress and I do not like memory foam-I fee trapped! I have heard a lot of about laytex as a good choice for people with pain. I am a back and side sleeper.

I have gone to two Montreal locations recommended here and have had two very different suggestions. The first, from Claude (wonderful guy!) at Matelas Personnel (?). He recommended Talalay latex/bio foam combo. 3" latex/3 inch 40 foam/3 " latex. The latex is medium firm-I don't recall if he gave me an IDA number. COver is bamboo lined with wool and silk. The bed can be flipped. I liked it but felt it was a it hard on my shoulder. He said he could adjust the foam middle to a 38" on the upper and lower thirds and leave the 40 in the middle. This would allow my shoulders to drop a little further. The price for this was about $1400 Queen.

He also had me try an other bed which was foam with an "aqua gel" comfort layer...it felt very good but I was a little concerned about how well aquagel would wear as I have not heard of it.

At Literie Laurier we tried a very different bed. The topper was 3" 28 ida and the bottom support was 8" 44-x firm IDA Talalay latex. Then wool and bamboo cover. It had more of a sinking feeling but I would think the bases would keep things quite firm. This bed was significantly more expensive. $2200 I think...but it was a few weeks back so I need to verify.

I have read about the support and comfort layers. I have always had a BAD experience with pillow-tops and so my last bed didn't have one. But the coil I have now is hard and full of full or pressure points.

Do these two beds make sense for a back and side sleeper? And should being able to flip the bed be a major consideration with latex?

anything else for me to ask or consider would be helpful.I don't want to make another big $$ mistake with a bed! :-)

thanks
NJ
09 Jul 2013 20:11
  • Miko
  • Miko's Avatar
Hi Phoenix,

Well - the deed is done.

I went with a mattress from Stéphane at Matelas Selection in Montreal, basically because I could try the various layers out in person here. If I lived in Calgary, I'd be at Black Sheep's door.

The details...

Base: I went with a 5 inch 2.7 per cu. ft. density "eco-foam" which has one channeled side and one solid side. They are going to "zone" it for me, putting the channeled (more flexible) side up for the shoulders (and feet) and the solid side up for my pelvis area. I can flip it (head to foot) now and then to reduce wear on the shoulder end. This allows my shoulders to sink in a bit more.

It looks quite eco-friendly (as foams go)
www.eupen.com/foam/certificates/index.html

I may have preferred springs (for eco-reasons). He did have a 7.5 pocket spring base, but this would reduce my top layer options (my Murphy bed limit is 11"). It also felt quite a bit harder than the foam base.

The top layer is 2" of soft Talalay latex (not sure what the ILD is).

I tried the combination with my (double size) 1.5" wool topper as is and folded over (to create a 3" topper) and it felt quite good. I may get the 3" queen size Snuggle Mate, if I find I need it.

There is also the option of adding another comfort layer later on, if I need it. I almost went with a 1" layer of 4.25 per cu. ft. blue open-cell Italian gel above the latex, but I thought I would try it as is (when it doubt, go a bit firm...).

The base, latex layer and wool/cotton cover cost me $964. CDN. before taxes. There is good exchange policy.

Finding the mattress took a lot longer than I expected it would, but I feel reasonably sure I'm in the ballpark comfort and eco-wise.

I really appreciate the time you took with my situation, Phoenix. So much good information. I'll update you, if I make any changes.

Best Wishes,

Miko (a.k.a. Michael)
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