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Searched for: flexus
07 Oct 2021 10:19
  • Mattrebuild
  • Mattrebuild's Avatar

I'm interested in what you find out because it's a big gap between 19ILD and 28ILD so it would be nice to source the 24ILD to allow more flexibility when designing DIY setups.


called just about everyone on the vendor list, and Henry from Flexus is top tier! he's going to add a blended 24ILD to his next order

he's going to confirm with his sales rep that Talalay Global is still making it/availability, but sometime mid-end of next week he's putting in his next order

i'll follow up here if there are any issues he reports, fingers crossed


Can I assume this will be a 3" blended talalay layer?

Would be a great source if Flexus was willing to go the extra mile to help out customers like that.
07 Oct 2021 09:52
  • datrumole
  • datrumole's Avatar

I'm interested in what you find out because it's a big gap between 19ILD and 28ILD so it would be nice to source the 24ILD to allow more flexibility when designing DIY setups.


called just about everyone on the vendor list, and Henry from Flexus is top tier! he's going to add a blended 24ILD to his next order

he's going to confirm with his sales rep that Talalay Global is still making it/availability, but sometime mid-end of next week he's putting in his next order

i'll follow up here if there are any issues he reports, fingers crossed
04 Oct 2021 21:18
  • datrumole
  • datrumole's Avatar

Hi datrumole.

It certainly looks that way given your previous configurations and experience with them. Given your BMI a 24 ILD Talalay layer will also be more durable.

It looks like the Talalay latex layering you are considering is from ultimate sleep who are sourcing it from Talalay Global. The “Original” is the Talatech Classic which is the blended version. They do have 2” and 3” blended Talalay in 24 ILD. Many of our Trusted members also source their latex from Talalay Global To name just a few: Arizona Premium, SleepEZ, Escondido Mattress, Flexus Comfort, Flo Beds etc.

Phoenix


a little frustrating to find out from Ken from APM that LatexCo doesnt supply a 24ILD but a 22ILD. if my understanding is accurate, the 24ILD should be within a +-2ILD tolerance, so the 24 would be 22-26ILD vs the 22 at 20-24ILD

seems either ultimatesleep didnt update their website after switching suppliers, or simply hoping no one would notice. so feeling a little annoyed at this point

i may have to reach out to the trusted members you mentioned to see if a 24ILD is offered unless the 22ILD from LatexCo is just as comparable. mainly looking for both the durability of what the 24 would have had, plus the extra bit of firmness above the 20 which i fear the 22 is too close too

am i overthinking this?
02 Oct 2021 09:27
  • datrumole
  • datrumole's Avatar

Hi datrumole.

thinking then that 34d/28t/24t should be right where i want it

It certainly looks that way given your previous configurations and experience with them. Given your BMI a 24 ILD Talalay layer will also be more durable.

It looks like the Talalay latex layering you are considering is from ultimate sleep who are sourcing it from Talalay Global. The “Original” is the Talatech Classic which is the blended version. They do have 2” and 3” blended Talalay in 24 ILD. Many of our Trusted members also source their latex from Talalay Global To name just a few: Arizona Premium, SleepEZ, Escondido Mattress, Flexus Comfort, Flo Beds etc.

i've been hearing 19ILD blended talalay won't last very long, and it's right near the 20ILD dunlop which may not be supportive enough

It's important to realize that manufacturers list an ILD or even a range as a convenience to make approximate comparisons. There is no such thing as a "single number ILD" for any Talalay core (and even more so with Dunlop) that will be accurate. In practical terms, Talalay is much more consistent even though it is also "averaged" (in the case of blended Talalay).

With Dunlop even if the ILD is measured and "averaged" across the layer ... it will vary by individual layer and will also vary depending on whether you have the bottom half or the top half of an original Dunlop core that produced the rating. The top 3" of a molded 6" Dunlop core will generally be softer than the bottom 3". It can also vary depending on which side of a layer you are measuring.

Other variables include the percentage compression that ILD is tested at (the two most common are 25% and 40% which makes a significant difference) and on the thickness of the core that is being tested (thicker cores will produce higher ILD results at the same percentage compression). For example, you can see some of the results of ILD @ 40% compression testing for Dunlop from Eco Latex which produces higher numbers.

As far as durability goes, Latex is certainly a very durable material but with a higher BMI of 30.1 kg/m2, softer and less dense latex will not last as long as the same ILD for normal BMIs. Softness itself is a durability factor and softer materials (which are much more common with blended Talalay) will be less durable than firmer materials of the same type.

Also, in the lower ILD's and in an apples to apples (same ILD) comparison ... blended Talalay will be more durable than all-natural Talalay in the lower ILD's (see post #2 here ). In the lower ILD's the natural elasticity of the talalay and its thinner cell walls along with the greater inconsistency of natural latex works against it and it will be less durable than a blend. This will start to even out as the ILD's get higher.

With Dunlop, it's the other way around because of its higher density, greater firmness in most cases, and the properties of natural latex itself (see post #2 here for a comparison between natural latex and synthetic latex). While overall natural latex has more desirable qualities than SBR (synthetic) latex ... the synthetic does have some advantages over natural in some areas that can add to its properties so it's not quite as black and white as "natural is better".

Phoenix


amazingly detailed response, thanks phoenix!

i was able to also track down ultimate sleep as well, i spoke to them yesterday, and it looks like they no longer carry from Talalay Global, but LatexCo. Appears TG requires a much larger quantity ordered, full pallets, vs drop shipping from LatexCo. LatexCo 'original' appears to be a 50/50 blend, not sure how that correlates to the TG blended, or if LatexCo is even a reputable manufacturer, but no one carries 24ILD that i was able to find from TG

as it pertains to the durability, thanks so much for the detailed response. ken from APM was the one who mentioned the shortened lifespan of the 19ILD at my weight, which is what lead me down this search for the slightly higher 24ILD

my only other option it appears is to attempt the 'plush' (20-24ILD) from APM which is the natural blend, but again, running the risk of too soft, and less durability

so pending LatexCo is a reputable manufacturer, i will place the order from ultimate sleep
02 Oct 2021 01:13
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi datrumole.

thinking then that 34d/28t/24t should be right where i want it

It certainly looks that way given your previous configurations and experience with them. Given your BMI a 24 ILD Talalay layer will also be more durable.

It looks like the Talalay latex layering you are considering is from ultimate sleep who are sourcing it from Talalay Global. The “Original” is the Talatech Classic which is the blended version. They do have 2” and 3” blended Talalay in 24 ILD. Many of our Trusted members also source their latex from Talalay Global To name just a few: Arizona Premium, SleepEZ, Escondido Mattress, Flexus Comfort, Flo Beds etc.

i've been hearing 19ILD blended talalay won't last very long, and it's right near the 20ILD dunlop which may not be supportive enough

It's important to realize that manufacturers list an ILD or even a range as a convenience to make approximate comparisons. There is no such thing as a "single number ILD" for any Talalay core (and even more so with Dunlop) that will be accurate. In practical terms, Talalay is much more consistent even though it is also "averaged" (in the case of blended Talalay).

With Dunlop even if the ILD is measured and "averaged" across the layer ... it will vary by individual layer and will also vary depending on whether you have the bottom half or the top half of an original Dunlop core that produced the rating. The top 3" of a molded 6" Dunlop core will generally be softer than the bottom 3". It can also vary depending on which side of a layer you are measuring.

Other variables include the percentage compression that ILD is tested at (the two most common are 25% and 40% which makes a significant difference) and on the thickness of the core that is being tested (thicker cores will produce higher ILD results at the same percentage compression). For example, you can see some of the results of ILD @ 40% compression testing for Dunlop from Eco Latex which produces higher numbers.

As far as durability goes, Latex is certainly a very durable material but with a higher BMI of 30.1 kg/m2, softer and less dense latex will not last as long as the same ILD for normal BMIs. Softness itself is a durability factor and softer materials (which are much more common with blended Talalay) will be less durable than firmer materials of the same type.

Also, in the lower ILD's and in an apples to apples (same ILD) comparison ... blended Talalay will be more durable than all-natural Talalay in the lower ILD's (see post #2 here ). In the lower ILD's the natural elasticity of the talalay and its thinner cell walls along with the greater inconsistency of natural latex works against it and it will be less durable than a blend. This will start to even out as the ILD's get higher.

With Dunlop, it's the other way around because of its higher density, greater firmness in most cases, and the properties of natural latex itself (see post #2 here for a comparison between natural latex and synthetic latex). While overall natural latex has more desirable qualities than SBR (synthetic) latex ... the synthetic does have some advantages over natural in some areas that can add to its properties so it's not quite as black and white as "natural is better".

Phoenix
29 Sep 2021 18:07
  • megapleb
  • megapleb's Avatar
Thanks for the reply Nikki!

I placed orders last night in queen size for:

Foam by Mail 6" support layer (polyfoam) HD36-HQ. This seems to be well though of from the feedback I've read, though the company less so. I believe this will give me a good foundation on which to build the rest of the mattress.

Flexus Comfort 2" Talalay comfort layer (soft latex). I took advice from u/the_leviathan711's on reddit to spend the extra and get Talalay. Flexus says they will ship within 48h which is appealing compared to several others that said 2-3 weeks to ship. The price is a very reasonable $240 less 10% discount from a code I found. I also read that the smell of Talalay is less irritating than dunlop. I was very tempted to go with Sleep On Latex given their return policy and good customer service, but I think I may end up putting the memory foam under the latex, and felt the talalay would be a better top comfort layer than dunlop.

Mattress Topper 2" 4lb comfort layer - This seems to get good feedback and is again well priced at $88. There have been some concerns about the company recently, hopefully me order is issue free.

SleepLikeABear All-Natural Knit Bamboo and Cotton Zipper Cover - I thought this was expensive at $210, but when I looked at the alternative DIY Natural Bedding Cotton Ticking @ $257 + $35 shipping, there was a substantial different. The advantage is that it's washable where as the sleeplikeabear isn't, but I decided it wasn't worth the extra cash. I also looked at the Sleep On Latex Cotton/Poly non-knit @$139 but it doesn't look nearly as nice or robust.

Now I just need to wait for it all to arrive and hope I like it!

On the 3" comment, I wasn't looking to add more comfort layers, I was saying I was surprised 4" was recommended, I expected 3" would be enough.
Standard latex - I was looking at Sleep On Latex and they didn't say it's Dunlop on the page I was looking at which confused me.
Base layer - As you can see, I went with polyfoam mainly due to price and having had no experience of latex yet, I didn't want to dramatically increase the cost with no idea if I'd actually like it.
Trying out - I went to Mattress Firm at the weekend and liked the Stearns & Foster Estate Rockwell 14.5 in both medium and plush, and the Beautyrest Beyond in medium and plush. I then did some reading, and felt these didn't represent value for money. I did not like the Purple mattress I tried in store.
28 Sep 2021 09:00
  • megapleb
  • megapleb's Avatar
Hi all,

I'm a 5'6", 140 lbs side sleeper with wide shoulders, and wake up ever morning with a sore mid/upper back. I'm using a queen size 9" memory medium foam mattress I bought on Amazon for about $200 three years ago. Having posted on r/mattress on reddit, I was recommended the following: a simple memory foam mattress with 6” of polyfoam as the support layer, 2” of soft latex and then 2” of memory foam with a stretch knit cover. I had been leaning towards springs on the base layer but was steered away from that. The recommendation made sense to me except the 2 x 2" of soft support layer. Being small and light, I was expecting three inches, but maybe it's to accommodate my light weight and broad shoulders?

Following the advice, I went to source the parts, and here's what I came up with:

Non-quilted Cover - Looking for a knit construction so it stretches. Surprised that this is one of the most expensive parts of the mattress
SleepLikeABear All-Natural Knit Bamboo and Cotton Zipper Cover $210 (not washable)
or
DIY Natural Bedding Knit Ticking $257 (washable)

Latex comfort layer - I'm unclear on the difference between standard latex and talalay latex.
Flexus Comfort 2" Talalay comfort layer (soft latex) $240
or
SleeponLatex 2" comfort layer (soft latex) $165
or
Naturally Latex 2" comfort layer (soft latex) $155

Memory foam comfort layer - I can see several more expensive options than these, but it's unclear what the benefits might be.
Mattress Topper 2" 4lb comfort layer - $88
or
Foam by mail 2" 4lb comfort layer - $123

Support layer
Foam by Mail 6" support layer (polyfoam) HD36-HQ - $210
or
2 x 3" Sleep on Latex support layer (medium latex) - $500

I'd really appreciate thoughts on:
- the depth of comfort layer I need,
- selection for each layer
- anything I have not thought about and should

Thank you!
27 Sep 2021 07:49
  • RincolnBrooks
  • RincolnBrooks's Avatar

I meant to also share that several years ago we had a 3 layer latex mattress with a memory foam layer on top. That layer wore out and for a short time we slept on the top layer being a 3" 28 ILD Talalay layer. It was too firm for my wife, but it was good for me, just a bit too firm. I was 250 pounds at the time (and about the same now).


Funny you mention this, as we just removed the memory foam topper and tried to lay on the 3" 28 ILD Talulay comfort layer to see if it broke in over time. Nope! Gloriously comfortable for my husband (on his back, not side) but too firm for me. I think I just like the feel of memory foam, despite it being hot and being unsustainable. Flexus' Soft Talulay Topper is 22 ILD whereas the one from Latex Mattress Factory is 19 ILD. As you said, Flexus is slightly cheaper. Do you think this is a huge difference?
27 Sep 2021 07:22
  • RincolnBrooks
  • RincolnBrooks's Avatar

I believe Flexus Comfort has better prices than either company you listed, particularly with the Mattress Underground discount.

Thank you!

Given that the 20 ILD (albeit Dunlop) topper was too firm, I would be tempted, even for your husband to try the soft Talalay topper.

This is a good point. I'm hoping the extra inch (3" vs. 2" topper) and difference between Dunlop vs. Talulay will be enough for us.
24 Sep 2021 15:28
  • benjammin
  • benjammin's Avatar
I believe Flexus Comfort has better prices than either company you listed, particularly with the Mattress Underground discount. Given that the 20 ILD (albeit Dunlop) topper was too firm, I would be tempted, even for your husband to try the soft Talalay topper.
20 Sep 2021 01:32
  • lantern71
  • lantern71's Avatar
keep calling and you will get a response eventually. Flexus has two issue right now 1) at the moment most of their latex is imported and the ports are extremely backlogged. Don't be surprised if you end up waiting a bit longer. 1) Their office is short staffed. Hence the slow response.
19 Sep 2021 13:29
  • Doug6952
  • Doug6952's Avatar
I'm having the same issue getting in touch with Flexus to get an update on my order. Placed the order on 9/6. I sent an email over a week ago with no response and tried calling a few times yesterday and left a message.
18 Sep 2021 06:09
  • pdunc
  • pdunc's Avatar
Hi Royalty. I bought a 10” 3 layer latex mattress from Flexus about a year and a half ago and have had a similar problem with it. The configuration has been firm, med, and soft on top, but I have tried other configurations as well. I’ve noticed that both my wife’s side and mine are dipping in the top soft layer leaving a hump in the middle between us, The dip is quite visible, even with no one on the bed.I have been having lower back pain for over 10 months and really need to find a solution. You mention trying the medium Dunlop layer as the top layer. My wife found that to be to firm. I am wondering if maybe an exchange for Talalay medium would give you (and possibly me and my wife) a better comfort feeling but also more supportive top layer. I too like the idea of trying the soft layer just below a top medium, but preferably Talalay. In any case, I am currently working with Henry at Flexus who seems quite knowledgeable and helpful, to try resolve my situation.
15 Sep 2021 18:13
  • NikkiTMU
  • NikkiTMU's Avatar
Hi mhorbein.

We are so happy to hear you feel this way! Thank you for the kind words. We are glad you've been able to learn from the resources TMU offers, and also the ongoing conversations in the forum!

We love all four companies you mentioned and do hope that if anyone has had a recent experience with any of them, that they'll chime in with useful information. As you pointed out, reviews tend to be questionable, but genuine testimonials about the process, and a "review" of the mattress after having slept on it for the appropriate amount of time can certainly be useful.

Frankly, if Cozy Pure had a return policy and could do split comfort layers (it turns out they don't do them in the Cal-king size), I would probably just go with them, but these two things (no returns and no side to side customization) are definite drawbacks, especially as we can't try the mattress.


Shoot! It's too bad they don't offer those options. A dealbreaker is a dealbreaker, though, so I understand the hesitation on that front.

I don't usually make this recommendation, but the r/mattresses topic on Reddit is usually hustling and bustling. You may be able to weed through what is obviously *not* useful to find additional information to help you make your decision, since you've already exhausted the search option here on the forum.

If you have any other questions arise, we are always here to help!
NikkiTMU
14 Sep 2021 13:15
  • mhornbein
  • mhornbein's Avatar
Hi!

First of all, thanks to TMU, Phoenix, and all the great moderators and members who spend SO MUCH TIME providing incredibly thorough responses to all the questions that come in. I've spent a few months now researching, reading posts, asking a few questions, and talking to retailers. I think we're close to pulling the trigger on a purchase, but wanted to circle back here before doing so in the hope of gathering some testimonials regarding the manufacturers we have narrowed it down to. At this point, I think Cozy Pure and Flobeds are the top choices, but I also had great conversations with Sleeping Organic and SleepEZ, so they are definitely still in the running and I would love to hear from people who bought beds from them about their experiences. This is a big purchase and since we can't try anything, I would love to get some reassurance about working with any or all of these companies and their products. Frankly, if Cozy Pure had a return policy and could do split comfort layers (it turns out they don't do them in the Cal-king size), I would probably just go with them, but these two things (no returns and no side to side customization) are definite drawbacks, especially as we can't try the mattress.

By way of background, I'm a female 150# ish mostly side sleeper (sometimes back) with pressure point issues on hips and shoulder. My partner is a male 175#ish 6'2" beanpole, who is much less picky (or less of a complainer than I am) but who I think prefers a firmer mattress. He mostly sleeps on his back and sometimes on his side. I love the plush feel of a pillow top, but am leery of going too soft, as I often wake up with a sore lower back. We are switching to latex for both longevity and environmental reasons, as well as the hope that it will help with my pressure point issues.

I know "reviews" are verboten, as everyone has such different individual responses and preferences, so mostly looking for people's experience with the company and with the product as a quality product. I love the posts here where people share their experiences with a particular manufacturer, in particular thoughts from folks who went with all talalay (Flobeds) vs all dunlop (Cozy Pure) vs. some combination of the two, as I understand they have very different feels. I remember reading a post from someone who had tried Flobeds (exhaustively) and ended up going with an all dunlop mattress because the feel of the Talalay just wasn't right. I get that this is totally subjective, but would love any additional anecdotes about these types of experience, as we do not live in a place where we can visit a showroom with an all latex mattress. I have done searches for all of these manufacturers on the forum, and read everything I could find (in particular this post: www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/index/7392-richmond-virginia-mattresses-and-cozypure?start=0) was a GREAT testimonial about Cozy Pure, and just what I'm looking for.

At any rate, apologies to the extent this is repetitive, but would love to hear peoples thoughts/experiences with these brands.

Thanks!
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