After waiting 7 weeks for my order from Flexus when I was told it would would ship in 3-4 weeks, and getting no response to my emails, I finally canceled my order. I am aware that there are supply chain issues, but the lack of response to my emails from Flexus was the main reason for canceling.

Hi! I'm back on the mattress underground a year after the knowledgeable folks here helped advise me on a mattress! I have been very happy with the one I went with, the Brentwood Cypress Hybrid, but I found I needed a little extra cushion on top. I purchased a cheap 1.5" memory foam option from Kohls that is not providing me enough support (I think my body joints are squishing right through it), and I'm ready to make the switch to Latex.
For reference, I am a 5'8" 118 pound 30 year old female with chronic pain and joint issues. I slept on my stomach prior to getting my Brentwood mattress but now I wake up on my side quite often.

My questions are - will Dunlop provide more support than Talalay? Based on what I've read here I am leaning towards going with Talalay but I'm still unclear about the differences between the two materials at the same ILD. I'm also wondering if anyone has a recommendation for what ILD level and thickness I should be going for - I need more support than my memory foam is providing, but a lot of comfort as I'm extremely bony and my mattress alone hurt my hips and shoulders. Is there a significant difference between 15 and 19 ILD, or 19 and 22?

Based on what I've read on here, I'm considering a soft 2" Sleep on Latex topper for Dunlop, or these 2" options for talalay:
Latex mattress factory, 19ILD,
Latex for Less soft (unsure of ILD)
DIY Mattress, ILD 20-24
Arizona Premium, but unsure if the supersoft (ILD 15-19) would be too soft
Flexus comfort, ILD 22 (unsure if this would be too hard)

Any advice is very appreciated, thank you!

Both are excellent options but if either you or wife have body types that are difficult to find mattresses for (curvy, high BMI, etc) then will likely benefit from the V-zone's ability to tailor the layers/zones to suit your specific needs/preferences. In can be a challenge in some cases to get both pressure relief and alignment correct but the V-zone allows more adjustability in order to get this just right for you. Let us know how you make out.

Hi, longtime listener, first time caller. Looking for 2 twin xl mattress for my wife and I. I prefer medium, my wife prefers firm to xtra firm. I have narrowed it down to either a 13" natural latex mattress from flexus or the vzone mattress from flobeds. Both are trusted members from this site. Difference is the vzone bed has the layer below the comfort layer with different firmnesses in different locations i.e firm on hips, soft on shoulders, etc. The price difference between the 2 right now is $3148.50 for the vzones and 1882.80 for the natural latex mattresses from flexus. I am a side, and sometimes back, sometimes stomach sleeper. My wife is a side sleeper. Anyone gotten a vzone who can comment on it vs a standard latex mattress? Is it worth the extra $1260 for the vzone? Thank you in advance for any advice that you can give me. And no, I can't go test either one or any latex mattress for that matter. There is no where in my state (Wyoming) that sells latex mattresses as far as I can tell and we aren't going to be able to drive 300+ miles to test mattresses in Denver with our kids.

Hi KittyKlawz.

I want to make a DIY latex bed for my sons room. The bed is also used occasionally by an adult. This is what I have so far but I am not sure what the finished firmness feel might be. Would it be better to put 3 inches of soft or medium talalay over the base foam or is it pretty good as is?

I’ve been peaking at your conversations with NikkiTMU to determine the age of your son. Is this mattress for your newborn or is this for an older child? Either way I'll try to cover all bases. As the adult will use the mattress only “occasionally” the best is to focus on getting something with your son’s wellbeing and needs in mind. Babies and infants will generally need a firm to extra-firm sleeping surface while toddlers will generally need a medium-firm to firm sleeping surface and older children that have transitioned to a larger mattress and are out of the crib will generally do best on a medium to medium-firm.

There are several reasons for this but the most important are ...
~ Babies, toddlers, growing children need a sleeping surface that is more supportive for the spine, their posture, and epiphyseal plates which are forming
~ Children ... especially when they are very young ... need a mattress that allows for free movement (too soft or a memory foam layer would prevent that) If the child is too young to move or turn with some "strength" there can be a danger of impaired breathing or suffocation if they are on their stomach face down in the mattress.
~ The mattress/bedding microclimate needs to be breathable.
~ Good to see that you discarded the Memory foam which is truly is not a good choice for young children. Children have less developed immune systems and can be more susceptible to harmful substances and VOC's (off-gassing).

6 inch lux-hq foam from foambymail $129
2 inch medium dunlop from either foambymail $116
2 inch soft talalay from latex for less. $173
10 inch plush bamboo cover from diymattress $179

Generally, infants don't need more than 4" thickness, a child won’t need more than 6” or so (if the sleeping surface is firm enough 8” is OK), and when the needs change if it becomes necessary then you can add some thickness or softness with either another layer inside a new cover or add a softer topper to the mattress.
As mentioned above, mattress firmness guidelines for children
0-1 infants …. Firm to extra- firm sleeping surface
1-3 toddlers… medium-firm to a firm sleeping surface
3-5 preschoolers… medium to medium-firm sleeping surface.

One of the advantages of doing a DIY for a child is that they are very adaptable and do well on firm mattress surfaces so you don't have too much thinking to do when it comes to comfort choices for them. Later, as your child grows and develops more adult proportions you can add or exchange layers If and when they need a softer comfort. You can either replace the top layer with a softer one, or if you got an expandable layer you can insert a new layer and increase the mattress thickness, or add a softer topper to any firmer child's mattress when they get older and develop more adult proportions. The 10” construction you are suggesting is too soft and thick for a baby, toddler, or growing child.
DIY Natural Bedding also has an expandable 100% Organic Cotton Double-knit ticking that you might wish to consider (3" to 15" in thickness)

Also what is the cheapest wood foundation I cAn get for this that can go inside a metal frame. I saw latex mattress factory has one for 200 and plexus has one for 185, not sure how fast flexus is shipping

I am not sure how fast is Flexus is shipping nowadays. They seem to have some supplier disruptions and shipping delays. If both budget and time are of the essence, I’d certainly first call Henry and Flexus and confirm that they have the product in stock and ready to ship.
Post #2 here includes links to most of the better forum posts and topics about mattresses and children and includes some suggestions and guidelines and links to some good quality/value options as well.

Let us know if this makes sense to you and if you have any additional questions
Phoenix

I want to make a DIY latex bed for my sons room. The bed is also used occasionally by an adult. This is what I have so far but I am not sure what the finished firmness feel might be. Would it be better to put 3 inches of soft or medium talalay over the base foam or is it pretty good as is? Are these suppliers having any shipping delays right now? Originally I was going to do the kids bargain mattress from APM and add another topper but they are having some shipping delays and we are in need of it faster than that. Also what is the cheapest wood foundation I cAn get for this that can go inside a metal frame. I saw latex mattress factory has one for 200 and plexus has one for 185, not sure how fast flexus is shipping.

6 inch lux-hq foam from foambymail $129
2 inch medium dunlop from either foambymail $116
2 inch soft talalay from latex for less. $173
10 inch plush bamboo cover from diymattress $179

$597

Hi KittyKlawz.

As someone who also recently had a baby and mattress dilemmas surrounding that, I can totally relate. I also sleep in the mountain climber position so I definitely understand that as well!

For me, memory foam was the devil and would "collapse" and in turn my baby sort of would roll into it/me and I worried about re-breathing, SIDS, etc. so the memory foam had to go. It was 3" though which is pretty excessive.

I'm on a firm pillowtop now with a plush bamboo mattress cover and it's a liiiitttttle too firm, but I don't worry about the baby anymore which gives me better sleep than before.

We just flipped it to the firm side and I’ll try that for another week or two but I don’t think it’s supportive enough.

I'll be curious to hear how this works out for you. Minor aches and pains are normal when adjusting to a new mattress but anything you'd describe beyond just a little achy is not good. If the firm side isn't supportive enough, that will be a bummer but will also be a valuable datapoint in moving forward!

I’m almost tempted to get a basic latex hybrid and then put a thinner high quality memory foam topper on top.

You could do that in sort of a pseudo DIY fashion. If so, I'd make sure that the comfort layer in the latex isn't thicker than 2 - 3" because you'll be relying on that as a transition layer. I'd also make sure it doesn't have a transition layer in it already. (So, basically just springs and 2 - 3" foam). That way, you're adding a topper that's a functional comfort layer interacting with a supportive transition layer underneath. That means you'll also likely want the latex hybrid to be medium/medium-firm depending on your [url=https://www.themattressunderground.com/mattresses/style-preferences-and-statistics/your-preferencespreferences[/url].

so I think a mattress I can return or swap layers out for free or a small fee would be the best option for me.

The mattresses that come to mind immediately are...

Sleep EZ Natural Latex which says the following in their exchange policy regarding this mattress: You can exchange any layer within 90 days for only $30 to ship you the new layer the first time. For mattresses with split layers, you can exchange one or both layers if shipped at the same time. Additional layer exchanges within the 90 days will be at the full cost of shipping. We do not accept layer exchanges after 90 days. All exchange layers must be free of: dirt, stains, tears, and odors to qualify for an exchange.
Nest Bedding's Owl or their Sparrow Signature
The GhostBed Flex
The Ultimate Hybrid by SleepEZ.
The Luma Natural Latex which also has a fairly reasonable comfort exchange policy.

Flexus is experiencing a number of delays with shipping, so for that reason you may not wish to go that route.

In terms of children's mattresses, I think you'd be interested in the certified Organic Kiwi kid's mattress by My Green Mattress or the kids options by Quality Sleep Shop .

I hope I haven't added to your paralysis analysis!
I will be offline the next few days but I look forward to checking in when I return.

NikkiTMU

I’m on my second mattress trial and not sure where to go. Previously I had a sleep innovations full foam bed with a memory foam topper that I thought was comfy but I was lighter in weight back then. Got rid of that and got a king Zinus memory foam full foam bed which I didn’t realize was super crappy. It was too firm so I put a topper on it and it felt pretty good for the first year or so and then the support foams broke down so it was really uncomfortable on year 4-5 and we got rid of it.

I had a brentwood home Oceano for 2ish months and it somehow was too firm and too unsupportive at the same time. It did seem to be nice quality but wasn’t comfortable enough.

I am 5’6” and around 250 lbs after having a baby a couple months ago. Hoping to lose weight but who knows when that will be haha.

I sleep kind of half on my side half on my stomach in a kind of mountain climber pose. I also lay on my side in bed nursing so it needs to be at least tolerable on my side when I’m doing that, and supportive enough for when I’m doing the bad side/stomach mountain climber sleep.

I’m on my second sleep trial on a Layla hybrid. Soft side felt good the first week but then I went hiking and ever since I’ve had really bad lower back pain and sciatica and I think it’s from the bed being too soft. We just flipped it to the firm side and I’ll try that for another week or two but I don’t think it’s supportive enough.

I do like the feel of memory foam but I also have been wanting to try a latex hybrid because I like that it’s organic and non toxic. I’m almost tempted to get a basic latex hybrid and then put a thinner high quality memory foam topper on top.

I’m overwhelmed with all the different brands and I don’t know what to do. I keep thinking about diy but with the lack of return policies I don’t think I can do that with how difficult it is for me to find something comfortable so I think a mattress I can return or swap layers out for free or a small fee would be the best option for me. Also need something that isn’t super back ordered. Don’t want to wait a month + for it to ship.

Can anyone help me figure out what configuration or companies would be good? I’ve looked at sleepEz, luma, flexus, Arizona premium, eco cloud, elements hybrid, on and on and on. There’s too many options!

I also need to get a bed for my sons room because he’s on an Ashley chime with fiberglass that I want to get rid of ASAP.

lantern71 wrote:

Looks like the Roma’s quilting is 1.5” of supersoft polyfoam which I would expect to aid in pressure relief. If you change to a zippered cover with no quilted foam, you lose some padding but maybe gain some compliance from the intermediate layer. Overall I wouldn’t expect a huge change. Certainly not the 38/45 scenario you referenced previously. I think a greater change in feel would result from moving the 19ild talalay inside a cover. Latex wants to spread outward when you lay on it. A cover will lend structure to the latex and make it feel more substantial. It’s worth calling SleepEZ to get their take. More data points at this point is helpful.
Side Note: The Roma is listed as med over firm. Based on the sleep EZ FAQ’s, med is 30-32, not 28. You might want to confirm that spec. I also noticed the LMF layer you are considering is listed as 28 but the full range is not given. That make it hard to know if it is the same as what is offered by their sister company SleepEZ or slightly softer.

Just for the record, the topper I have is inside a stretch cotton cover, as for the ILD differences, I never noticed that. I just assumed that as sister companies they would be the same. I emailed them today to find out.

lantern71 wrote:

Without more testing, there is no good way to know which layer to target first. The best you can do is research potential causes of your discomfort and the likely impact of changes to your mattress setup. Then resign yourself to trial and error. I would suggest you keep a log to analyze your progress and try to stick to one variable at a time. I know you are trying to limit your costs, but I will mention that having more layers on hand allows you to test more combinations and narrow down your options.
There are a few posts that speak to your shoulder comment. Phoenix might have some links on hand otherwise you will have to search for them. Could give you more insight as to which layer to target.

As far as purchasing and returns, double check if a return to SleepEZ precludes a return to LMF in the same year. While the companies are related, they may operate independently. Foam Sweet Foam has dunlop in wide variety of ild’s, but you would have to ask if they sell layers independently. You can also check with APM, SleepEZ, and flexus to see if they can order items not listed on their website.

APM said they do not and will not, SleepEZ I'm checking with as well, SOL said no, Flexus said their supply chain is very limited so at the moment they will not either. That said, I might try that 23-27 layer from DIYNB as a top layer if the 19+28+38 doesn't seem to work out. I've also thought about it and a 1" 20ILD layer from SOL might be a nice soft comfort layer ontop of the 23-37 layer. Like you said it's going to be a bit of trial and error, but it will always be able to be modified which is key. At least I'm sourcing some options.

Do you think there would be a "noticeable" difference between 19ILD Talalay and 19ILD Dunlop? I know they behave slightly different, but I'm not sure how perceptible it would be. If the 23-27 turns out to be too hard it could be an option.

lantern71 wrote:

9” is adequate to support someone at your size. 12” might allow you to achieve a plusher setup but be aware that the entire system functions differently as the thickness changes. An ILD that worked as an intermediate or comfort layer in a 3x3” may not be viable in a 4x3” setup.

Interesting, but it does make sense; as you add overall total thickness, each layer compresses a bit less. Our "ideal" size range was 9, 10, or 12 simply because SLAB and a few other vendors make covers in this size. 11" seems to be an outlier for most places. SLAB has a nice bamboo cotton hybrid cover that I think we might buy. Plenty of options here though.
I don't think that >10" is necessary for us too.

nick7790 wrote:

I didn't realize I never mentioned the mattress name. It's a SleepEZ Roma.

Maybe you're right about the mid layer. Like I said, I'm just trying to get my first order as close as I think I can get. If I return the Roma I can't do any layer exchanges from SleepEZ/LatexMattressFactory unless I wait a year and then purchase the layers. So I either take a $250 chance with the LMF 28ILD mid knowing I'm stuck with it if it isn't right, or I "invest" in the $500 DIYNB 28-33ILD mid, knowing that I can at least swap it out if I need to for $80. DIYNB is the only reputable place I see that actively carries a ~25ILD layer, so there really aren't any alternatives.

I do sink adequately into the 19ILD layer but it feels "right" if that makes sense. My knees hardly sink in at all, but my hips and side do nicely. I used to sleep with my arm mostly under me, but I now roll my shoulder forward a bit with my arm out front and that made a big difference. I THINK I want just a tiny bit more sink in and I would be 99% of the way there but I'm not really sure. Again though, the cover might be making the mid layer firmer than it should be, so a "clean" DIY stack with the same ILD layers and a stretch cover might be perfect. all I can say is that the Roma by itself on the 28ILD side was excruciating after 2 hours, adding the 3" 19ILD T layer was a definite improvement, but still not right.

One thing I'm having trouble grasping is whether the top layer or mid layer should be adjusted.

Side question: Are 12" (4x3") stacks generally overkill? (that would at least make me feel better if I needed to buy an 4th layer. Even if it was something like ~25+19+28+38)

Looks like the Roma’s quilting is 1.5” of supersoft polyfoam which I would expect to aid in pressure relief. If you change to a zippered cover with no quilted foam, you lose some padding but maybe gain some compliance from the intermediate layer. Overall I wouldn’t expect a huge change. Certainly not the 38/45 scenario you referenced previously. I think a greater change in feel would result from moving the 19ild talalay inside a cover. Latex wants to spread outward when you lay on it. A cover will lend structure to the latex and make it feel more substantial. It’s worth calling SleepEZ to get their take. More data points at this point is helpful.
Side Note: The Roma is listed as med over firm. Based on the sleep EZ FAQ’s, med is 30-32, not 28. You might want to confirm that spec. I also noticed the LMF layer you are considering is listed as 28 but the full range is not given. That make it hard to know if it is the same as what is offered by their sister company SleepEZ or slightly softer.

Without more testing, there is no good way to know which layer to target first. The best you can do is research potential causes of your discomfort and the likely impact of changes to your mattress setup. Then resign yourself to trial and error. I would suggest you keep a log to analyze your progress and try to stick to one variable at a time. I know you are trying to limit your costs, but I will mention that having more layers on hand allows you to test more combinations and narrow down your options.
There are a few posts that speak to your shoulder comment. Phoenix might have some links on hand otherwise you will have to search for them. Could give you more insight as to which layer to target.

As far as purchasing and returns, double check if a return to SleepEZ precludes a return to LMF in the same year. While the companies are related, they may operate independently. Foam Sweet Foam has dunlop in wide variety of ild’s, but you would have to ask if they sell layers independently. You can also check with APM, SleepEZ, and flexus to see if they can order items not listed on their website.

9” is adequate to support someone at your size. 12” might allow you to achieve a plusher setup but be aware that the entire system functions differently as the thickness changes. An ILD that worked as an intermediate or comfort layer in a 3x3” may not be viable in a 4x3” setup.

iambk wrote:

Good to know. Last I could find flexus was using Radium due to pandemic supply chain issues but that was April 2020 and so I sent flexus a message last week asking for specifics about where they sourced and the specific ILD/range but I never heard back.

That was accurate in 2020. At present but the backlog in the ports has made importing Radium a logistical a headache so TG is the primary source. At least that's what I was told.

iambk wrote:

lantern71 wrote:

Despite what the website says, If you want natural talalay you need to contact them and special request.

How'd you find out flexus is shipping blended and not natural? That's disappointing, especially as the flexus website clearly says "100% Natural Talalay and GOLS Certified Organic Dunlop."

I figured it out when checking the product code stamped on the latex. The dunlop was 100% natural though. I don't mind blended talalay but I do wish the website had the correct info. On the flip side, when I was having trouble with my mattress, flexus allowed me to exchange a layer twice without additional cost, which I am grateful for.

lantern71 wrote:

Despite what the website says, If you want natural talalay you need to contact them and special request.

How'd you find out flexus is shipping blended and not natural? That's disappointing, especially as the flexus website clearly says "100% Natural Talalay and GOLS Certified Organic Dunlop."

lantern71 wrote:

it's 19ild blended from TG. 19 is the target ild with the normal range of +/-2. For now they are not ordering from Radium because of shipping delays.

Good to know. Last I could find flexus was using Radium due to pandemic supply chain issues but that was April 2020 and so I sent flexus a message last week asking for specifics about where they sourced and the specific ILD/range but I never heard back.

from April 2020 www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/index/flexus-f/22887-100-natural-talalay-global-talalay-radium-or-both#84653:

FLEXUS wrote:

Hello,

We usually source our natural Talalay from both companies. But, under the current Covid-19 situation we are only sourcing from Radium at the moment. We currently have available 22 ILD, 28 ILD, and 36 ILD in the Radium Talalay.

iambk wrote:

If flexus is currently using talalay global then I'd like to know what ships for their 20ILD latex on their website because the talalay website shows 19 and 24 but not 20
www.talalayglobal.com/products/mattress-cores/

And Radium natural talalay is 17.5/18 (N5) and 22.5/23 (N6S) so if flexus is currently using radium then is it the N5 or the N6S?

I know these ILD numbers are +/- 2.5 but 17.5 vs 22.5 avg might make a difference, even if only small.

it's 19ild blended from TG. 19 is the target ild with the normal range of +/-2. For now they are not ordering from Radium because of shipping delays. Despite what the website says, If you want natural talalay you need to contact them and special request.

lantern71 wrote:

you receive your 24ild layer yet? if so, how did it affect your mattress?

i wish, still in transit

iambk wrote:

If flexus is currently using talalay global then I'd like to know what ships for their 20ILD latex on their website because the talalay website shows 19 and 24 but not 20
www.talalayglobal.com/products/mattress-cores/

And Radium natural talalay is 17.5/18 (N5) and 22.5/23 (N6S) so if flexus is currently using radium then is it the N5 or the N6S?

I know these ILD numbers are +/- 2.5 but 17.5 vs 22.5 avg might make a difference, even if only small.

often times i see them say 19/20 interchangeably, could just be a typo, might want to reach out to henry at flexus and ask him