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Searched for: flexus
28 Nov 2011 17:32
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi youngs52,

The variables that work for each person are so wide ranging that a specific recommendation based on an individual height/weight and sleeping position profile can really only be a guideline to be used as a starting point for testing mattresses. Some guidelines about sleeping positions are here and some suggestions regarding weight and body profile are here.

So a very general guideline that would make a good starting point for side sleepers would be a comfort layer of about 3". A good starting point for ILD would be in the range of 19 - 24. If a thinner comfort layer is used ... then a softer layer right below it can effectively increase the "effective thickness" of the comfort layer. So something typical would be either 3" of 19 - 24 ILD talalay latex over 3" of medium or low 30's over 3" of firm or high 30's to low 40's ILD.

Some of the influences that could lead to adjusting the thickness or the firmness of the layers based on specific testing would be as follows ...

Heavier weights would generally increase the ILD of all the layers proportionately because they will compress the layers more deeply than a person that is lighter so firmer layers will feel and act softer for them. This can play a role in both pressure relief in the comfort layers and alignment in the mattress as a whole. Lighter weights would use softer latex in the layers to get the equivalent pressure relieving cradle and support.

Larger body sizes (that usually goes along with heavier weights) will tend to do better with increasing the thickness of the comfort layers as well as the ILD while smaller body sizes (that tends to go along with lower weights) may do better with a slightly thinner and softer comfort layer.

Curvier body shapes with more "bony prominences" and deeper "recessed areas" would tend to use thicker comfort layers to "fill in" the gaps (like the waist) in the side sleeping profile. Flatter body shapes could use thinner comfort layers.

Combination sleepers will generally do best with the thinnest and firmest possible comfort layer that relieves pressure for side sleeping so that there is better alignment while sleeping on the stomach.

A final suggestion would be to test mattresses with both of you on the mattress and if your needs and preferences are different then a "side to side" split can sometimes be very beneficial so you won't have to compromise with the layering of your mattress.

The Los Angeles list includes some great outlets and places to test mattresses that make some very good quality mattresses (such as Custom Comfort) however you will see that not all of them offer the same value and the range of prices for fairly similar mattresses can be wide. Once you have an idea of the overall construction that works for you and the time comes to make value comparisons then I would certainly make sure that you include Flexus Comfort in your research and testing.

Phoenix
28 Nov 2011 16:49
  • jbedshopper
  • jbedshopper's Avatar
Happy Holidays, Phoenix -

We tried as you said and removed the extra set of Sealy supports and now have a low bed in the frame with just the "high quality" supports from Flexus that came to match the all latex bed. The situation seems improved though sadly it is still a "wiggle bed" and likely worse than the pillow top bed we replaced due to partner disturbance. While the support and comfort are basically fine, we are nevertheless sad having gone to so much expense and effort with no real improvement when it comes to not waking each other up too often when we turn over or come and go at different times. We surely don’t miss the toxic memory foam as a whole yet the motion isolation on that mattress was actually quite excellent.

Spoke with Flexus last week about getting a taller support system but this may make motions even worse again. ?

Regards,
23 Nov 2011 20:09
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi craezie,

You may be surprised to learn this but there is only 9" of latex in the Aireloom you are looking at and this would account for much of the "difference" you are feeling compared to 12" of latex.

I have to give the person at Sit n Sleep credit first of all for taking the time to research the mattress. He looked at his spec sheet and the law tag (at my request) to find out the layering and even phoned the Aireloom rep to find out the ILD's but the rep was not available for a few days.

In any case ... here is the layering.

There is about an inch or so (possibly slightly less) of polyfoam in the quilting on the very top. This is within the maximum I normally consider acceptable in a latex mattress. While I would prefer to have wool in the quilting layer if a firmer layer is on top of the latex ... this is OK since the quilting needs to have something in it to quilt to.

Underneath this is 3" of Talalay latex. While he didn't know the exact ILD ... it would likely be quite soft somewhere between 19 and 24 would be my guess although it could be outside of this range.

Under this is another 3" of Talalay latex which is probably firmer ... perhaps in the range of 28 - 32.

Under this is 3" of Dunlop which would be the firmest layer of all.

Finally under this is 1" or so of very firm "base foam" which is an ultra firm layer of polyfoam often used on the bottom of a mattress for stability and to make it easier to handle the mattress. This makes little difference in the feel or performance of the mattress. This would conform to the law tag which shows 88% latex and the remaining 12% is polyfoam (a little on top and a little underneath).

If you are testing thicker mattresses (like the 12" you tested) then what happens is that the pressure is spread out over thicker layers and you will sink in more deeply into the mattress as a whole while you will also sink in slightly less deeply into the upper layer of the mattress. This results in a feeling that is slightly less comfortable in terms of pressure relief (the top part doesn't compress quite as much) but also has a feeling that it is too soft that comes from sinking "down" deeper into the mattress as a whole. This sinking "down" feeling comes from the support layers which as you mentioned feel too soft. This has more to do with having 12" of latex instead of 9" of latex which completely changes the feel of the mattress.

The closest layering pattern at foam sweet foam would be 9" of latex with softer on top and then increasing as you go down. This would be something like soft medium firm, or medium firm xfirm, or even soft firm xfirm. The wool on the top of this in the quilting would be very roughly equivalent to the 1" of quilting foam in the Aireloom quilting. The bloc foam on the bottom of the Aireloom wouldn't really make much difference and can be ignored.

In general ... 9" of latex is all that most people need and actually has a better feel for most people. It allows the upper layers to be more pressure relieving while the lower layers are more supportive. It would be rare in most types of layering schemes that more than this was necessary unless there was a specific reason for it such as certain types of zoning or very heavy weight and then the layering should take this into account with a much firmer layering underneath the comfort layer.

The reason that the foam sweet foam Dunlop is more expensive is because it is actually organic (certified) rather than just 100% natural. While the actual material is not "better" between the two ... the process that is involved in certifying the latex is long and the certification itself and what is necessary to achieve it results in greater cost ... even if the actual material and "purity" is exactly the same.

So I strongly suspect that 9" of latex ... with perhaps a "side to side" split (each of you may do best with different layering) with either all Talalay (with 3" layers each with increasing firmness levels to take into account the need for support for both of you) or with a Dunlop support core (either two 3" layers of Dunlop or a single 6" core would be fine here) under a Talalay comfort layer and then quilted with wool will be much closer to the feeling of the Airloom than almost any layering scheme which uses 12" of latex. Of course you could also use the exact same layering (in ILD's which feel similar) which is 3" talalay over 3" talalay over 3" of Dunlop but this would not really be necessary and the ILD's would play an important role here in how closely the "feel" matched the Aireloom.

You could also choose a non quilted cover with 9" of latex and then use a wool mattress pad instead of having wool in the mattress itself.

So I would highly recommend 9" of latex in all with appropriate layering patterns for your testing and then use a higher foundation to get the height you want.

I would also consider a call to Flexus to see what they have in this type of layering (soft Talalay over a thicker firmer layer of Dunlop totalling 9" of latex and possibly zoning in the support layer to help keep the hips up a little bit).

Phoenix
21 Nov 2011 16:07
  • jbedshopper
  • jbedshopper's Avatar
well yes we do now have an unusual setup under the new mattress. Previously we had the Sealy box springs (looks like two twin sized equaling a cal king) plus the pillowtop mattress itself measured 15". Realizing that the new latex mattress was only 9" we worked out with Flexus adding another set of box springs which they latched together with a little metal hook and latch set at the head and foot areas so that the box springs wouldn't drift apart. So now we have the wooden bed frame, two sets of box springs (four total units), and the latex mattress. On top we have just sheets.

Anyhow it certainly doesn't seem like the extreme motion vibrations are coming from below but perhaps like the top of a latter everything is amplified at the apex as you suggest. Hmm... My wife suggested we abandon the box springs and just flip the old pillowtop mattress over and seat it underneath the new latex bed! I hope you are correct that the expensive latex component is not at fault as we keep waking in the mid and early hours since the motions are so pronounced!

Thanks as always for your advice.
18 Nov 2011 16:46
  • jbedshopper
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Hi Phoenix,

Thanks again for this amazing site and all your help here. I took your advice and contacted the local LA dealer regarding (Henry @ Flexus) an all latex cal king. We worked everything out and he said he called you to confirm some of the ideas. I described to him that we are light weighted side sleepers and needed to change from our pillowtop box spring due to ‘partner disturbance’ everything night and morning – the bed was just too bouncy. Together we all came up with a Natural Comfort 9” latex mattress 6” 31 ILD Dunlop Base Core + 3” 22-24 ILD Natural Talay Comfort layer… wow that is a long product name. :S

So the good news is that the bed feels great… like a water bed perhaps. The bad news is that like a water bed the entire bed wobbles and ripples literally when we are simply speaking to each other! So now we have our most expensive mattress ever and the ‘partner disturbance’ is more pronounced than even before. Do you think the bed could have been built differently to address this top priority of ours? Or is it possible to split a cal king in two parts as only that will really solve the issue? Would that cost much more or less? We are concerned here as I don’t know what if any exchange policy there is and we were planning to have the bed for 10 years or something naturally. But after a just a few nights we have woken each other up many times already.

Please help us sleep, Phoenix! Thank you -
16 Nov 2011 18:45
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Alysal,

The first thing I would do is read the tutorial post here . Rushing to buy a mattress will often lead to poor value purchases which is a shame because what you buy will have a big effect on how you feel for the next decade or so. A mattress is one of the most important purchases most people make.

As you can see from this thread and others on the forum ... none of the choices you are looking at are particularly good value (or in the case of the iComfort good quality either) and the best quality and value will usually be from a local factory direct manufacturer or a better sleep shop that are transparent about the materials in their mattresses, use higher quality materials, and have better prices.

Some of the better choices in and around the Tampa, Clearwater, St Petersburg area include ...

www.pittsburghmattressfactory.com/ Local factory direct manufacturer with outlets in Ellenton and Bradenton. They make a variety of mattresses including double sided and true HR polyfoam (the best kind of polyfoam) and Dunlop latex. While they are not "cheap" and are priced higher than many independent manufacturers, they do use high quality materials and would be worth a phone call and/or a visit as a reference if nothing else.

www.manta.com/c/mm2fvf1/bartow-mattress-upholstery Local factory direct manufacturer in Bartow, FL. They have been making mattresses for over 100 years and make traditional two sided innerspring mattresses as well as 6" two sided latex mattresses on a working box spring. They are open about providing information about the quality/density of any of the materials or layers in their mattress. They will make memory foam mattresses but like many smaller manufacturers tend to prefer more resilient materials so they tend to discourage it and may not have any memory foam on their floor.

www.matterbrothersfurniture.com/ Pinellas Park, Tarpon Springs, Naples, Fort Meyers, FL. They are a local manufacturer that makes a range of mattresses including latex and polyfoam/innersprings (and some memory foam). The sales people there are often not as knowledgeable about the materials they use however (for example they know little about the foam density they use) but they told me they would find out if asked. Certainly a better option and higher quality and value than larger name brands or mass market outlets but would require some research because being a manufacturer with several stores the knowledge level of all the salespeople on the floor may not be up to the "norm" of most local manufacturers.

innomax.com/index.php Smaller national brand normally sold through retail outlets but with a factory direct outlet in Clearwater. Makes a range of mattresses including latex and memory foam and better value.

Body Rest Mattress Manufacturer in St Petersburg and Tampa. They sell to retail stores but they have a local showroom where consumers can test their mattresses and be referred to a retailer. They are owned by Commercial Bedding and make the Green Karma line which uses PET recycled materials which are rather unique and a non toxic and durable alternative to traditional polyfoam as well as their Green Earth and
Panache lines which includes latex, innersprings, and memory foam.
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www.orlandomattresscompany.com/ and Atlas Mattress Factory Lake Hamilton, FL. They are local manufacturers who are working in partnership and make a range of good quality mattresses. They generally make commercial mattresses for hotels and cruise liners but they also sell direct to customers at the Atlas Mattress showroom. They make traditional mattresses (innerspring/polyfoam using a wide range of foam densities depending on budget), latex, latex hybrids, and microcoils and are transparent about the type and quality of the materials that they use. Both Orlando Mattress and Atlas Mattress can provide information about the materials inside any of their mattresses. They can also custom build.
ADMIN NOTE:Retired Website | Archived Footprint: atlasmattressfactory.com/

810 beds Retail outlet with outlets in Tampa, Brandon, St Petersburg, Clearwater, Palm Harbor, and Tarpon Springs. Carries Panache and Body Rest mattresses (both owned by Commercial Bedding) and Serenity Mattress which are both local brands. He has a very close relationship with both and can order a custom mattress if necessary. Better value than most retail outlets, knowledgeable and helpful.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: 810beds.com/

www.somnissleep.org/ Retail store in Tampa. Carries Innomax, Organicpedic (OMI), and Reverie mattresses which are all high quality mattresses but some of them are in higher budget ranges. They also carry mLily which are a Chinese memory foam import. The owner is knowledgeable and focuses on the materials in a mattress rather than "marketing stories" which of course is a sign of a better outlet and better customer service.

www.clearwater-discount-mattress.com/ or www.tampabaydiscountmattress.com/index.html Retail outlet with outlets in Palm harbor and Tampa. Carries several alternative budget brands that tend to use higher quality materials and have better value than most major brands. While they don't know every detail of the foams in their mattresses (they don't actually make them), they have told me that they will find out for you so that you can avoid having too much low quality materials in your mattress.

bedpros.com/ Retailer with stores throughout the area. They carry Pure Talalay Bliss mattresses which are a high quality talalay latex mattress and because the specs are known can also provide a rough blueprint for an online purchase where the value may be better. I would not consider any of their other mattresses or let them steer you in any other direction using "sales techniques" (I don't know them but many chain stores do this). There is nothing else there that I would consider unless they can provide all the specs you need that will "prove" that it would be worth considering.

www.mattressdr.com/ Retail store in Tampa and also sells on ebay. Carries Diamond mattresses.

www.designinteriorsfurniture.com/ Tampa. Carry a wide range of Jamison mattresses.

www.thebetterbackstore.net/ Port Richey. Carry Jamison which makes some higher quality mattresses including gel memory foam and latex.

www.mattressavenue.com/ Port Richey, Spring Hill. Carry Pure Latex Bliss talalay latex mattresses. I would avoid the major brands they also carry.

famoustate.com/locations.html Tampa, Winter Haven, Lakeland, Oldsmar, Spring Hill, Brandon, Port Richey, Wesley Chapel. They carry Therapedic mattresses (including latex hybrids) but make sure you can find out the specifics of all the layers in any mattress you consider here.

This topic also has some feedback from one of the members here about their experiences with some of the manufacturers mentioned here.

Hopefully this will help you a bit ... and I would certainly take the time to do a little research if you can but if your time is limited it is exceptionally important to only go to outlets who will tell you exactly what is in every mattress they sell rather than telling you stories based on "comfort" alone which may feel great in the store but will have little relationship to how a mattress feels or performs when it is in your home or the quality or durability of the materials in it.

Phoenix
14 Nov 2011 00:45
  • MikeM
  • MikeM's Avatar
For members of this site who are seeking mattress stores in LA to field test, here's a consolidated list of stores that I visited:

- Urban Woods - Carries Savvy Rest (full options available with great service) in Van Nuys. Importantly, they have 3 entire Savvy Rest beds with 6 stacks (of 3 layers) so you can do side-by-side testing!

- Beds Etc in Torrance- Carries the full lineup of Pure Latex Bliss (Sans Nutrition) plus two Electropedic choices

- PJ's Sleep Company - Carries full line of OMI plus 100% natural Dunlop PJ's-branded mattresses with PLB toppers (2" and 3" as well as slightly firmer toppers as well as memory foam toppers). Many options here to explore, and one of the last stores I visited. - Fairfax between Beverly and Melrose.

- HD Buttercup - Full line of OMI mattresses - Culver City. Excellent service and very knowledgeable.

- Custom Comfort - Local factory/retailer offering its own all latex options - Beverly Hills. The most beautiful mattress store I've ever encountered and this shows up in their prices...

- Ergo Comfort - Pure Latex Bliss (pamper plus topper only), their own brands, OMI, Natura, Savvy Rest (unwilling to try different layer combos though). This was more of a traditional "retail" sales experience but they offer a good range of options.

If one wanted to make quicker work than me, I'd suggest visiting the top 3 listed above to cover not only a nice range of options, but each store offers a basis of comparison against other mattress brands or, in the case of Savvy Rest, considerable permutations of soft, medium and firm layers.

I have also contacted several local factories or suppliers now that I feel comfortable building a DIY mattress without buyer's remorse. If I did not go this route, I'd purchase a PLB Pamper plus Topper from Beds Etc. In this regard, I've contacted

Newport Bedding - they referred me to their factory which is a company called Good Bed Guys in OC. Although the first conversation went well and they seemed happy to quote me on specific criteria, they failed to deliver. I called 3 times to no avail.

Sams Mattress in Commerce. Good conversation with Sam and he seems willing to quote to my spec. He sells Coco 100% natural Dunlop but unfortuantely only in a mid ILD grade.

Flexus Comfort in Covina. Henry took my call on his cell on Veterans Day and asked me to email him my specific specs and he'd follow up with a quote. This sounds promising.

Selectabed. Spoke to a very nice gentleman a few weeks ago and I will call them again. They seem eager to quote based on spec. He is also willing to fuse layers free of charge and cut them in the future per a layer exchange (didn't inquire about this cost)

Norms Foam in Palms. Warehouse with stacks of Talalay. Sounds promising, right? Unfortunately, the prices were higher than one could get on the Web.

I have called several others referenced in this forum but not all of them carry latex or are willing to sell individual layers.

I hope this helps those seeking to test and purchase in Los Angeles.
12 Nov 2011 17:25
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Craezie,

Yes I am familiar with Foam Sweet Foam and have talked with them several times. I consider them to be "good people", very knowledgeable about latex, and that offer a quality product at a good price. They make mattresses that are very similar to SleepEz in terms of layering and value in most of their configurations but their 4 layer model is a few hundred more ($2699 in King) even though this is still good value compared to most alternatives. I would certainly recommend a visit there as it would give you a chance to try latex layering to see what you prefer and which comes closest to the layering that works best for you.

Another manufacturer that is a little further away but is also a member of this site and offers very high quality and value is www.flexuscomfort.com/mattress.php . They would be well worth a phone call to talk about what they have that may be suitable and/or close to your preference and worth a visit if they have a 12" model on the floor that you could test. I would also consider testing various combinations of a 9" latex mattress here ... especially with a zoned Dunlop latex support core as you may well be surprised at how well this works for you because of the higher sag factor of Dunlop and its more supportive nature (or not of course :)).

A quick search on "Los Angeles" (without the quotes) will bring up a couple of lists of manufacturers in the general LA area with a few comments about each however to save a lot of time on researching, calling them, and travel, I would tend to focus on Flexus, Foam Sweet Foam, and online options unless any of the others catches your eye and you want to make a few phone calls and ask a few questions just for the same of comparison.

While there are mentions of plushbeds on the forum ... it was in reference to their latex mattresses rather than their airbeds. I would tend to stay away from airbeds completely ... especially with your weight ... and before you make a decision to go in this direction it may be worth reading this . Even though they may be "comfortable" in a store environment ... they are IMO among the worst possible choices for a mattress support core because air is an "all or nothing" material with no progressive support. The only time I would consider them is for someone who slept in only one position (which is very rare) and even then they are not great value and other choices in a support core will do a far better job. The $2000 "all inclusive price" includes a mattress for $1600 with only 2" of latex and another 2" of polyfoam (which is likely what their "pressure relieving comfort material" is and I would avoid completely) and a support core which is far inferior, less durable, and less supportive of the natural alignment of your spine over the course of a night than an appropriate 6" latex core. You would be far better off getting a 8-9" "all latex" mattress which would be far more suitable ... especially with a heavier weight ... than an "air bladder with foam" mattress ... especially if it included polyfoam in the comfort layers IMO.

Phoenix
11 Nov 2011 04:43
  • phoenix
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Hi "anonymous",

If you do decide to make a purchase from Flexus (or any of our members) ... make sure you register on the forum and make a single post under your username as that automatically makes you a member here and entitles you to a 5% discount at any of the manufacturing members of the site :)

Phoenix
10 Nov 2011 03:48
  • phoenix
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Hi Brannen,

The latexpedic has 5.6" of latex which in Talalay would be quite thin for most people unless you were very light. This would be a single core of latex of a single ILD and wouldn't have any individual layers. Whether it was suitable in terms of pressure relief and support though would depend on your weight distribution and sleeping positions. If you specifically tested the mattresses for pressure relief and alignment ... then your testing should be the basis for your choices. A feeling of "Plushness" really is an overall subjective term and is not what I would be looking at in testing a mattress. Specifically testing for pressure relief and alignment is far more important and the layering that gave you the best of both would be your best choice.

I would also take a look at some of the other options on the list though or at least call them with a general description of the mattress you were considering to see what else was available in terms of value for a similar mattress. I would also consider a one sided latex mattress with a thicker comfort layer because as you mentioned ... 1.1" of softer latex over the core wouldn't make a huge difference (although it will make some) and you may be better served with a thicker comfort layer depending on your circumstances. Bamboo is a fairly common blend (usually with cotton) that is used in the ticking of many latex mattresses.

Overall ... while they may be better value than what is available in chain stores ... I would personally make some comparisons to some of the others on the list ... before I made a buying decision. I would also make sure that if I was buying anything in an area where there was a member of the site (such as Flexus Comfort in LA) ... that I would call them to see what they had to offer and include them in your options before purchasing anything.

Phoenix
08 Nov 2011 17:40
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hello,

I certainly understand your desire to have a chemical free mattress. While PBDE's are no longer used, many other chemicals still are.

Latex as you mentioned is definately more durable than other foams and because it can be made in a wide range of firmness/softness options it can be used in both comfort and support layers. The RoomandBoard mattresses you were testing are made with Dunlop latex which doesn't have the same range of softness options as Talalay latex but both can be very high quality materials.

There is some very good quality and value available in the LA area which means that the uncertainty of a DIY mattress would not be necessary. When possible ... it is always more accurate to test a mattress locally and then purchase the same mattress that you have tested if the value warrants it rather than taking on the variables in "duplicating" a mattress you have tested.

There is a list of Los Angeles manufacturers in this thread . The first place I would visit is Flexus Comfort . They are a manufacturing member of The Mattress Underground which means that if you register on the forum and make a single post under your username ... you will be entitled to an additional 5% discount for any mattress you purchase. All you would have to do is tell them you are a member and your username on the forum.

In terms of fitting a mattress to your specs ... Flexus is good at this and can also do a side to side split if your needs are different. You may for example need slightly softer foam to achieve good pressure relief because of your lower weight. Of course actual mattress testing and preferences also plays a role here and is always more accurate than "theory at a distance". Side sleepers typically need slightly thicker/softer comfort layers than other positions to accommodate their pressure relief needs. In your cases (both of you), the thinnest comfort layer that worked well for your side sleeping would be best for alignment when you are on your back. This would likely mean a comfort layer in the range of 2-3" depending on the firmness of the support layers underneath it. Most of the "firmness" that people feel on their mattress (and the ability to support the heavier parts of your body and keep you in alignment) comes from the deeper support layers under the comfort layer and the comfort layers are the part that provides the pressure relief. In other words a mattress needs to have a combination of both softness and firmness in the different layers.

Encased coils certainly reduce motion transfer but so does latex and even polyfoam in the support core of a mattress. Most motion transfer comes from non pocket coil innersprings in a mattress.

For most people ... the value at Flexus and other factory direct manufacturers would certainly be better than RoomandBoard using the same or better quality materials.

Phoenix
04 Nov 2011 16:26
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
I'd like to welcome www.flexuscomfort.com/ as our newest manufacturing member of The Mattress Underground.

There are many mattress manufacturers in the Los Angeles area with a wide range of mattresses, quality, and prices and its been an ongoing process to talk to many of them on my list. When I first called Flexus comfort and had a chance to speak with Henry the owner ... it was like a breath of fresh air. We ended up talking over the course of several hours and several conversations about mattresses, what he was building, and the industry in general and it became clear very quickly that he was exactly the type of manufacturer that The Mattress Underground was designed to help people discover.

He has been in business for a long time, is knowledgeable, focused on helping people, and quietly building high quality mattresses that have great value. In other words ... he is what I call "mattress people". It's always exciting for me to make these kind of discoveries and get to know another manufacturer who is so closely aligned with the goals and values of this site and I'm excited to include Flexus Comfort and Henry to the growing list of what I consider to be "the best of the best".

Phoenix
03 Nov 2011 23:05
  • phoenix
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Hi Brannen,

Tempurpedics as a whole are high quality mattresses however they are also significantly overpriced compared to other equal or better options IMO. The cloud series for many is more comfortable than the other 2 lines because of the use of lower density memory foams in combination with their regular memory foam. As in all mattresses though, how suitable any particular model may be for an individual would depend on their own weight, body shape, and sleeping positions and on what I call PPP (pressure relief, posture, and preferences). The only thing I would put out there as a caution is for those that are heavier in which case I would tend to avoid the use of the lower density memory foams as they will soften more rapidly.

So they are a high quality mattress ... not great value ... and suitable for those that don't mind paying in most cases significantly more than they would otherwise need to and that take the time to "fit" the model to their unique needs.

I should also add that as of today www.flexuscomfort.com/ is now an official member of this site and while this "news" is only afew hours old and I will be adding an official welcome and their details to the membership list later tonight ... I thought I should mention it now in this thread.

I have had several great conversations with Henry the owner there and he is exactly the type of manufacturer that this site was designed to help people learn about and discover. He is also adding to his existing latex options so that people will have more choices as he recognizes that latex is a growing and increasingly popular choice for many people. He is truly "mattress people" with a wealth of knowledge and experience and I'm happy to be able to add him to a growing list of what I consider to be the "best of the best".

Phoenix
30 Oct 2011 23:59
  • phoenix
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Hi brannen,

I started a new thread for your post since I realized that I didn't have a separate "Los Angeles" thread and this will make it easier for others to find.

There are more mattress manufacturers in California than any other state ... and there are still several dozen "mom and pop" shops with no websites that I haven't had a chance to talk with. There are some very good choices within about 50 miles of you however with some great quality and value ...

www.flexuscomfort.com/ Covina. Local factory direct manufacturer who makes a range of high quality mattresses, including latex component mattresses and latex/pocket coil hybrids that have great value. They are very knowledgeable and service oriented and are what I call "mattress people". I am happy to have them as a member of this site and recommend them .

Nest Beding Studio City, Santa Monica CA. (and others outside the area) They are a member of this site and are knowledgeable, experienced, and transparent and carry a range of mattresses including latex, memory foam, and latex and memory foam/pocket coil hybrids. They have also put a great deal of time and effort into carrying mattresses that are good quality and value. I have also talked with Joe the owner on many occasions and he is passionate about what he is doing and left a larger manufacturer that had a somewhat exaggerated focus on "green" mattresses to form his own company because he wanted to "do it right".

www.gmmattress.com/ (not active the last time I checked) www.superpages.com/bp/Commerce-CA/G-M-Mattress-Foam-L0018155179.htm Commerce. Local wholesale manufacturer and has no showroom but will build a single mattress to your specs with any materials if you know the layering that you want and can pick it up.

airdreamsmattress.com/ Local factory direct manufacturer in El Monte. Makes mostly polyfoam or memory foam (incl 5 lb) over innersprings. Can order other materials if necessary.

paramountmatt.com/ Los Angeles. Local factory direct manufacturer who makes a range of mattresses (but they no longer make the latex hybrids that they have listed on their site)

www.samsmattress.com/ Commerce. Local factory direct manufacturer. Sells mostly wholesale but will sell retail as well. Will also custom build for a customer who is willing to wait. Good value.

www.melvincustomattress.com/ Northridge. Local factory direct manufacturer who will custom build using any type of material (latex, memory foam, polyfoam, innersprings) and also reupholsters mattresses. Good value here as well.

www.brentwoodhome.com/ Los Angeles. Factory direct manufacturer that makes a range of memory foam, innerspring, and latex hybrid mattresses. They also have some good quality/value choices.

www.manta.com/c/mmnn10w/isaac-mattress Bell. Factory direct manufacturer who makes mainly traditional and lower budget innerspring/polyfoam mattresses using 1.2, 1.5, and 1.8 lb polyfoams depending on the price.

www.comfortpedicmattress.com/index.php Local factory direct manufacturer with stores in Rancho Cucamonga and San Dimas. They too didn't seem as open and transparent about the materials in their mattresses and kept telling me stories about other people who loved their mattresses. Seemed somewhat higher priced compared to other local factory directs.

goodbedguys.com/ Costa Mesa. Local factory direct manufacturers. Making a range of innerspring and latex mattresses using high quality materials and a lot of cotton in the layering. Was impressed with what they told me and the quality of their mattresses. they have good value but are on the higher end of the range because of the cost of the materials they use.

www.newportbedding.com/home Local factory direct manufacturer in Costa Mesa. They have a wide range of one and two sided mattresses including latex, memory foam, innerspring, and hybrid mattresses that use good quality materials that they make themselves or in some cases are made by other independent manufacturers. Some of their higher quality mattresses are also in a more premium price range so I would make some careful value comparisons.

electropedicbeds.com/ or www.latexpedic.com/ Burbank, Garden Grove. Specializes in adjustable beds but also makes several good quality 2 sided Talalay latex mattresses and a two sided latex pocket coil mattress that would also be worth considering.

bedsetc.com/ Los Angeles, Studio City, Torrance, Gardena, Tarzana. Owned by members of the same family as Electropedic Beds and carries the Electropedic mattresses and OrganicaSleep and other brands.

www.selectabed.com/ Westlake village. Local factory direct manufacturer. Carries a range of good quality memory foam mattresses and latex layered mattresses. Mattresses are designed by Dr. Rick Swartzburg who I have talked with at some length and I like some of his design concepts and ideas and think highly of his knowledge and experience (see post #9 here )

www.customcomfortmattress.com Brea, Costa Mesa, Mission Viejo, Orange, Pasadena, Westminster, West Hollywood. They are a larger regional factory direct outlet which makes some high quality mattress and use good materials and some hand building construction methods, and have a good reputation for quality. They also carry higher prices than similar mattresses made by other independent manufacturers though and I would make some careful "value" comparisons here.

www.berkeleyergo.com/ Ontario, CA. They manufacture a range of mattresses that use high quality materials including 100% natural Talalay latex, microcoils, and high quality pocket springs that can be customized before and after a purchase and are usually in a good "value" range. They are normally sold through a network of carefully selected and knowledgeable retailers in various parts of the country but the factory now has a showroom where customers with an appointment can test their entire lineup as well.

bannermattressonline.com/mattresses Larger factory direct manufacturer (Banner and Scorzielli) who carries other major brands as well. They didn't seem as eager to talk about their mattresses as most independent manufacturers are but perhaps they do better in person. I would avoid the major brands they also carry and make careful value comparisons.

casper.com/la Los Angeles, CA. They make a single mattress that uses 1.5" 3.5 lb ventilated polyfoam, 1.5" 4 lb 10 ILD Memory foam, 1.5" 2.5 lb polyfoam with a 1.5 lb polyfoam core. They are usually sold online but they have a small showroom in Los Angeles so those that are local can test their mattresses in person.

www.pjssleep.com/. Los Angeles, CA. Factory direct manufacturer that makes their own line of high quality organic Dunlop latex mattresses. Also carries OMI, Savvy Rest, Natura, and Anatomic Global.

www.ergocomfort.com/ Retailer in Laguna Niguel and Newport Beach that carries Berkeley Ergonomics (which are good quality and have some good value) and a range of other premium mattresses that are also good quality but carry more premium prices as well including OMI, Savvy Rest, Naturepedic, Technogel and some ultra premium brands such as Carpe Diem and VI Springs.

www.snoozzzmattress.com/ Retailer in Thousand Oaks, CA. They carry Organicpedic, Naturepedic, Vivetique, and Diamond mattresses. Some good quality mattresses but make sure you make some good value comparisons since some of them may be in higher budget ranges.

goodnightbeds.com/ San Pedro and Redondo Beach. They carry Berkeley Ergonomics, Pure Latex Bliss, Stress-O-Pedic, and some Spinal Care mattresses all of which are fully transparent about their materials and may be worth considering.

www.yelp.com/biz/sleep-n-aire-mattress-factory-santa-monica or americanfurniturexchange.com/ . I talked with them very briefly (they had customers in the store) and they are a local mom and pop manufacturer that makes latex mattresses (mostly dunlop cores but will use talalay as well) and traditional innerspring/polyfoam mattresses. They are working on a website but rely on Yelp for now. They also carry some memory foam mattresses (which they don't make themselves but which use good quality memory foam) and some Simmons mattresses (which I would ignore).

dreamlandmattress.wordpress.com/about/ Retailer in Covina, CA. They carry Spinal Care Bedding mattresses (made in Gardena) along with Stress-O-Pedic, Spring Air, and Spring Comfort. I have talked with Bruce the owner here and he is knowledgeable and experienced with mattresses and mattress materials and understands the importance of providing the specs of his mattresses. Well worth a visit.

cantoni.com/ Retailer in Los Angeles and Orange County. Carries a private label version of Berkeley Ergonomics (see this topic ) along with Savvy Rest component latex mattresses and Vi Spring (ultra premium mattresses).

www.orthomattress.com/ Santa barbara, Ventura, and other CA locations. They make their own mattresses but they also carry some major brands which have poor value which is somewhat of a warning sign to me that their own mattresses may also be overpriced. They have not been the most forthcoming or knowledgeable about what is in their mattresses or the other brands that they sell and there is no meaningful information on their website about their mattresses. I'm including them for reference only not because I believe they would make a particularly good choice.

www.1stopmattress.com/ Retailer in Orange, CA. Carries Pure Latex Bliss latex mattresses and Stress-O-Pedic.

www.thefutonshop.com/ Los Angeles, Encino, CA. Carries a huge range of futons of all kinds including innersprings, latex, memory foam, polyfoam, and organic wool and cotton.

Some wholesale manufacturers that sell through retailers in the area that may also also be worth including in your research include ...

maximmattress.com/ Local wholesale manufacturer in Commerce, CA. They are making some good quality mattresses including microcoils, latex, and memory foam and have a retailer locator on their site.

spinalcarebedding.net/ Local manufacturer based in Gardena, CA that also makes some good quality/value mattresses that includes latex, memory foam, and some very high quality pocket coils.

www.stressopedic.com/ Regional west coast manufacturer based in Ontario, CA that makes a wide range of a mattresses and is committed to being completely transparent about all the materials in their mattresses.

www.diamondmattress.com/ Local Wholesale manufacturer in Rancho Dominguez who is making some good quality and value mattresses but make sure you are able to find out the specs of the materials in their mattresses (see post #2 here ). Has a store locator on the site so you can find out if they are available near you.

puretalalaybliss.com/retailers/ Wholesale manufacturer that makes several lines of latex and latex hybrid mattresses that are available at many retail locations across the country. Also has a retail locator on their site to check for any retail locations that are near you.

www.anatomicglobal.com/ Wholesale manufacturer of some good quality memory foam mattresses owned by FXI/Foamex. Has a store locator on their site to find out if there are retailers near you. It is sometimes difficult to find out the specifics of the memory foam in their mattresses so make sure you find out the specs of any of their mattresses you are considering so you can make more meaningful comparisons.

All of these manufacturers can provide you with a list of any local retailers that sell their mattresses close to you either with the retail store finder on their site or with an email or phone call.

The price of a polyfoam core and pocket spring core will depend on how the rest of the mattress is made and on the quality of the pocket coils (there are some very cheap poor quality ones) and the polyfoam (again there is a wide range of quality and price). Usually though ... a pocket spring core costs slightly more than polyfoam because they require a more complex construction. Both are less than a latex core. Bear in mind too that a foam core usually does best with a solid foundation while a pocket spring will usually do best with a box spring (which can be more expensive).

Pocket springs work "independently" of each other and usually have more coils of a higher gauge (thinner) to conform better. While a quality pocket coil is fine for most people and often preferred for their feel and movement isolation ... for those who are heavier they may not last as long (depending on the gauge and construction). Even here though ... the weak link in the mattress is usually in the comfort layers not the innerspring and you are not in the weight range where this would be an issue.

If you are looking at a good quality independent manufacturer ... usually the relative value between their mattresses will be similar ... although value will vary between different manufacturers.

Usually ... and assuming that like most men your shoulders are significantly wider and lighter than your hips ... your biggest "issue" would be to make sure that there is enough softer foam in the comfort layer so that your shoulders can sink in far enough when you are on your side. This would normally be in the 3" range depending on the layers under it. The thinnest comfort layer that provides good pressure relief is usually best for alignment.

Phoenix
22 Oct 2011 03:06
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Glen,

The Indigo Point is actually a Simmons Comfort Pedic loft mattress rather than a Serta iComfort ... however they certainly have some similarities. In particular, the Simmons is using 3.5 lb memory foam (low quality and subject to early breakdown) and also uses a very soft polyfoam support layer (24 ILD) which is much softer than a typical support layer which means that it may not do a great job keeping you in alignment. They do this because low-density memory foam allows you to feel the support layers underneath it much more easily and if they used a typical support layer firmness under this ... the mattress may feel too firm. They do put a gel layer under the hips to help keep them up but this still wouldn't make up for the deficiencies in the mattress IMO. I would probably buy a Costco mattress at half the price over this one.

That leaves you with the Natura and the Englander. Between the two of these ... the Natura is IMO the better value only because the price you were quoted is lower than the norm.

The Natura has memory foam so you will sink "in" to the mattress more although this would be lessened by the layer of wool and polyfoam over the memory foam so it will feel firmer and the sinking in will take more time than if you were lying directly on the memory foam itself. The wool will also create a very breathable surface layer. The memory foam will soften over time though and you will sink more deeply into it when this happens as it is not as durable as latex. My biggest concern with this mattress would be alignment.

The Englander would have a firmer "on" the mattress feel as it has the quilted polyfoam (the quilting makes the polyfoam firmer) over the relatively softer (but firmer than memory foam) Dunlop latex over a firmer Dunlop core (which is all over a firmer polyfoam support base). This construction wouldn't soften over time as much as the Natura but it also may not conform as well with your side sleeping positions because of the quilted polyfoam over the Dunlop latex in the comfort layer. My biggest concern with this mattress would be pressure relief.

If I was in your shoes ... I would test each of these two mattresses specifically for pressure relief (with at least 10 minutes fully relaxed on your side on each mattress) and then make sure that your hips aren't sinking in too far on either of them in any of your sleeping positions, especially on your stomach.

There are many of our members who make and ship mattresses anywhere across the country, many of which make latex or latex hybrid mattresses. All of them IMO offer better value than any of these (and offer the forum members here a minimum of 5% discount or a product bonus on their mattresses). All of the latex options could be made either softer than the Englander mattress (if you need it) or similar to it so your testing on these two can serve as a model for which layering would be best for you. They are ...

www.mattresses.net/ Specializes in customizable 6" + 2" or 6" + 3" layering in either Talalay or Dunlop and side by side split construction is also available. Has a range of other options as well including organic Dunlop and a pocket coil/latex hybrid and can also do special orders of alternative layering on request. Has a zip cover so that the base layers can be exchanged if needed. Discount Code: MU5

www.baybed.com/ Specializes in a rather unique customized component mattress with latex layers of your choice over a high-quality pocket coil design for those who prefer a latex/innerspring hybrid. Has a zip cover so that layers and components can be exchanged after purchase.

www.mygreenmattress.com Specializes in 2 sided Talalay latex mattresses which are fully finished on both sides (no zip cover) as well as innerspring hybrids with natural fibers or latex. Can be chosen in soft medium or firm versions and has a 90-day comfort exchange if needed. The ability to flip a mattress will extend the life of even a latex mattress which is already longer lasting than other foams. (Note added later* This product was discontinued)Discount code: TMU125 or TMU15 for promotional sales

www.sleepez.com Specializes in component "choose your own layer" mattresses that offer either natural Dunlop or natural or blended Talalay latex with a wide range of layering options and thicknesses available. A 3" 5.5 lb Sensus memory foam layer can also be chosen instead of a 3" latex layer in mattresses with a 3" comfort layer. Side-by-side split is also available. They also offer several zip covers so layers can be exchanged.

www.cozypure.com/ Specialize in high-quality organic latex mattresses with a choice of layers and many custom choices including component latex mattresses. They also manufacture a wide range of organic accessories including toppers, mattress pads, and bedding at special discounts for those who have purchased a mattress. They are among the greenest and most eco-friendly manufacturers in all of North America and every product is as green, natural, or organic as it can be down to the last thread. They produce all their own power for their factory with wind, solar, and geothermal energy and would be of particular interest for those whose "value equation" includes buying from a natural, organic, and truly green manufacturer.

www.flobeds.com/ They are one of the original pioneer manufacturers of component latex mattresses where you can choose your own layers and have some unique designs. They use a 2" convoluted top layer in all of their latex mattresses and also offer a custom zoned vZone mattress where you can choose your own zones to customize support/alignment which is unique. They are very knowledgeable and take great care with their customers with their attention to detail and their customer service. They also make a line of latex/memory foam mattresses and some more premium mattresses that include some less commonly seen materials including coir and horsehair.

www.spindlemattress.com They make a component latex mattress that use continuous pour Dunlop latex from Mountaintop Foam using 100% natural Dunlop latex. Their mattresses are 3 layers of latex with a wool quilted zip cover and they also offer a comfort adjustment with a new layer for those who need it after purchase. Spindle itself is fairly new but the owner Neal is part of a mattress manufacturing family that has long-term and deep roots in the industry and is very knowledgeable about latex and mattresses in general. This is another great quality/value choice. Post #6 here and this thread have more comments and feedback about them. Discount code: phoenix

www.flexuscomfort.com/ Makes a range of good quality/value latex and innerspring mattresses including two-sided and latex hybrids and latex component "choose your own layer" mattresses that can be purchased locally or shipped across the country. They are knowledgeable and experienced and also offer layer exchanges for their component mattresses.

lumasleep.com Mattresses. They sell 4 models – a 13" All-Latex Slumber mattress with a choice of comfort and two versions of latex/pocketed coil hybrid mattresses, each with a choice of comfort. Luma’s two-layer slumber system allows consumers to exchange the 3" Talalay comfort layer for free for up to one year after purchase. They are knowledgeable, experienced, and very transparent. One of the owners, former CEO Latex International (now Talalay Global) and several large US mattress manufacturing companies, has extensive experience in the US mattress industry. Discount code: TMU10

en.memoryfoamcomfort.ca/ Canadian online retailer that sells a range of high-quality memory foam and latex mattresses and hybrids that use good quality materials including 4 and 5 lb memory foam, Energia 3 lb HR polyfoam, and high quality/density base foam as well as several Nature's Embrace latex mattresses made by Renelle and low-cost HD polyfoam mattresses as well. They are good quality and value, provide good guidance over the phone, and can ship across Canada.

sleepingorganic.com/ Charleston, SC. Factory direct manufacturer. Sells component latex mattresses where you can choose your own layers using either 100% natural Dunlop (organic is also an option) or Talalay in 3" layers with your choice of ILD in each layer and a cotton/wool quilted organic zip cover. Brandon the owner is knowledgeable and transparent and they have good quality and value.

www.foamsweetfoam.com/ Fullerton, CA. Factory direct manufacturer. They sell component latex mattresses that you can choose between organic certified Dunlop latex or 100% natural Talalay layers with either two, three, four, or five 3" layers in your choice of firmness with organic cotton and wool quilted zip cover. Scott is the owner here and I have known him for several years and he is also very knowledgeable and experienced. He makes good quality and value mattresses and is the only manufacturer I know that sells 15" component latex mattresses with 5 layers. He has been selling mattresses for over 30 years and online for over 9 years. They provide a 6% discount to the forum members here. Discount code: MU6

Nest Bedding Mountain View, San Francisco, Berkeley, Los Angeles, CA. Mattresses made and partially owned by Brooklyn Bedding. They are knowledgeable, experienced, and transparent and carry several mattresses that they sell locally and online including an organic latex mattress, a latex/polyfoam hybrid, memory foam mattresses, a two-sided dual firmness latex/pocket coil hybrid, and memory foam/pocket coil hybrids (including two-sided) that all use high-quality materials. Joe, the owner left a larger manufacturer that had a somewhat exaggerated focus on "green" mattresses to form his own company because he wanted to "do it right". Please see their Nest Bedding details for discount codes for various mattress lines (they will also match any other larger discount).

latexmattressfactory.com/ They make a 7" 100% natural Dunlop latex mattress with an organic cotton cover quilted with natural wool that is available in a range of different firmness levels. They also sell individual Dunlop latex layers and a stretch knit cover for those who wish to build their own DIY latex mattress. They are also knowledgeable and experienced and carry good quality/value products.

Some other Non-member options are:

www.kissmattress.com This is a relaunch (2018) by SleepEZ and is also one of the " simplified choice mattresses ". They have 4" flippable comfort layer with two firmness choices that is a combination of 2" NR Talalay latex and 2" Active Flo Foam (one of the newer generation of “high performance” polyfoams that are more breathable, faster responding, and less temperature-sensitive) on top of a 6" 2 lb polyfoam base layer and is also a very high quality/value choice. New Kiss mattress configuration added Jan 2018
For a bit of mattress designs variation ....Reverie (not a member of TMU) is a US manufacturer that makes a unique line of latex mattresses that use latex cylinders for support that have multiple firmness options and which can be arranged in different patterns to create a zoning system that can customize support/alignment for different body types and sleeping positions both before and after a purchase. They use comfort layers that are a combination of latex and high-quality 2.3 lb or higher polyfoam. They also provide blueprints that show a diagram of the most common and effective arrangements for the cylinders.

tmasc.ca is a smaller sleep shop with stores in Edmonton and Calgary, AB. which specialize in high-quality premium mattresses and some very high-quality bedding products. They carry SleepTek and Greensleep customizable latex mattresses and Berkeley Ergonomics customizable pocket coil/microcoil/latex mattresses that they sell locally or ship across Canada. I have known Daniel one of the owners there for several years and they are exceptionally knowledgeable and helpful and have great integrity.

NovovosBed (Not a member of TMU) They have now introduced their new " simplified choice " memory foam mattress in Jan 2016 which replaces their previous lineup. They use good quality/density materials and their mattress comes in your choice of three different firmness levels that each have different memory foam densities and firmness levels (two HD 4 and/or 5 lb memory foam layers and a 1.8 lb polyfoam base layer). They also have an optional "comfort +" attachment in different firmness levels as well which uses 2 lb polyfoam which is a high-quality material and is an additional zip attachment to the mattress for those that need to soften up or firm up their original choice after their purchase.

Rocky Mountains sell two latex mattresses, one with a trizoned 6" Dunlop latex core and one with an additional 2" of Talalay latex on top with different ILD's available. Also a wide choice of memory foam mattresses including several (in the component beds section of the site) with layers that can be re-arranged to customize the mattress either before or after purchase. They also make custom layered and sized mattresses to your specs as well. Added Note: The ownership changed sometime last year and some of the options listed here might not be available.

selectfoam.com They used to be a member of this site but their membership has been terminated and they are included here as a reference only. See the warning posted in this topic .

Sedona Sleep (Arizona Premium Mattress.) This is also one of the new breed of " simplified choice mattresses " and is a two-piece component system that is somewhat unique because it includes a separate finished "base mattress" that is made from 7" of 1.9 lb polyfoam which can be used by itself as a low-cost medium-firm mattress. It can also be used underneath an existing topper if you already have a topper and the mattress underneath it has developed soft spots or is sagging and needs to be replaced. The complete two-piece system also includes a 3" blended Talalay latex topper in your choice of 4 different firmness levels on top of the base mattress and they also provide the option for a split firmness topper so each side of the complete system can have its own firmness level (in queen and king sizes).
Note added later ~ Sedona Sleep was discontinued but we leave the reference here for the record & as a reference for those who own the mattress

SleepOnLatex Online only. They manufacture two 100% natural Dunlop latex mattresses that are different thicknesses (7" and 9") and that each come in three different firmness options. Both have a wool quilted organic cotton cover. They also sell latex toppers and mattress cores as well. They are knowledgeable and experienced and offer good quality/value products.
Between these manufacturers, most mattresses can be "approximated" in terms of pressure relief and alignment and firmness level or almost any needs and preferences can be met with the quality and value that is typically much better than anything available to those who don't have a factory direct manufacturer or a good quality/value retailer within reasonable driving distance. They are also very good at discussing your local mattress testing and "translating" it into recommendations or suggestions about which of their mattresses have the best chance of working well for you.

So unless the mattresses you are testing locally have a really compelling value or the value of buying locally makes it worth spending the extra money and/or using lower-quality materials or construction ... I would certainly speak with these once you have spent a bit more time on the Natura and the Englander just to "make sure" about the pressure relief and alignment.

Phoenix
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