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Searched for: flexus
30 Sep 2011 23:53
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Sleepless,

I also particularly like the feel of latex over pocket springs and was very "tempted" when I was buying my mattress. Thanks too for correcting me about the Talalay which they use in the comfort layers. I didn't link the dealer in yellow springs I was referring to and they have prices which are a fair bit lower than Sovn which I believe puts them in the better value range. When I went to edit the previous post to correct it I realized that they will have to be used as a pricing reference only since I was measuring the mileage to yellow springs california rather than yellow springs OHIO which is where they are <laughing>. One of the retail outlets I listed below also carries them though.

Hi ma7514,

Some independent manufacturers in or near Los Angeles include ... (more than most other cities :))

NOTE: There is an updated Los Angeles list in mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here .

www.flexuscomfort.com/ Local factory direct manufacturer. Very open, knowledgeable and helpful. A smaller company who may not have every option available but offers very good value and service and is also a member here which means that I believe they are among the "best of the best" in the country.

airdreamsmattress.com/ Local factory direct manufacturer in El Monte. Makes mostly polyfoam or memory foam (incl 5 lb) over innersprings. Can order other materials if necessary.

Banner Mattress Larger factory direct manufacturer (Banner and Scorzielli) who carries other major brands as well. They didn't seem as eager to talk about their mattresses as most independent manufacturers are but perhaps they do better in person.

www.comfortpedicmattress.com/index.php Local factory direct manufacturer. They too didn't seem as open and transparent about the materials in their mattresses and kept telling me stories about other people who loved their mattresses. Seemed somewhat higher priced compared to other local factory directs.

customcomfortmattress.com/ Local factory direct manufacturer. They are very open and knowledgeable about their mattresses and build very high quality mattresses including 2 sided and tufted. They are higher priced than others but they are also well regarded by other manufacturers for their quality.

Foam Sweet Foam Local factory direct manufacturer. Also very knowledgeable and helpful. Has a layered "choose your own layer" mattress which can be customized and layers exchanged. Also good value

maximmattress.com/ Local wholesale manufacturer in Commerce, CA. They are making some good quality mattresses including microcoils, latex, and memory foam and have a retailer locator on their site.

Newport Bedding Local factory direct in Costa Mesa. Has some high quality mattresses using more "hand built" methods but are also in a more premium price range for their higher quality mattresses such as latex.

www.orthomattress.com/contact Local factory direct manufacturer. Mainly polyfoam and memory foam. I would make sure that their mattresses containing latex don't have several inches of polyfoam on top. Carries other major brands as well which sometimes makes me wonder why.

paramountmatt.com/ Local factory direct manufacturer. Also appears to make high quality products.

www.royal-pedic.com/Product.asp Smaller national manufacturer. Has a dealer finder on site. They produce some exceptional high quality mattresses ... mostly latex ... however they are also very high priced (IMO too high).

Sam's Mattress Local manufacturer. Sells mostly wholesale but will sell factory direct at their outlet. Makes memory foam mostly 3 and 4 lb but will order 5 lb on request (not on their floor). Also has a latex model. There may be a wait if a mattress not on their floor is ordered.

www.selectabed.com/ Local manufacturer. Has some cutomizable latex and memory foam options. Mostly sell online but has a showroom in Westlake Village.

Some retail outlets that carry a range of high quality mattresses that may be well worth testing (although not necessarily in the same value range as the factory directs) include ...

www.ergocomfort.com/mattresses/na/ Retailer. Among others they carry OMI (very high quality and price but good for reference), Natura, Pure latex bliss (great for testing talalay latex) and the Berkeley Ergonomics line.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint 1: flexuscomfort.com/index.html | Archived Footprint 2: bannermattressonline.com/locations/ |Archived Footprint 3:foamsweetfoam.com/mattresses |Archived Footprint 4:newportbedding.com/index.html |Archived Footprint 5:samsmattress.com/products.asp?offset=-1


When you are testing ... it is often well worth trying mattresses even that may be over your budget as they are often very helpful in creating a "blueprint" of the mattress that is best for you and mattresses with similar or even the same materials are often available for much less.

In terms of "duplicating" the iComfort Revolution ... I probably wouldn't try. I would focus on a mattress which has high quality "cool" memory foam (if you are committed to memory foam) but in a thinner layer than the Revolution. It has 4.75" of memory foam and another 1" of cheap polyfoam in the comfort layer which I believe is asking for body impressions ... foam breakdown ... and perhaps back issues. Comfort layers that thick are very risky especially if they are memory foam or polyfoam.

Hope this helps

Phoenix
10 Sep 2011 16:16
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Fluffy and welcome :)

I certainly agree with NobleRises's comments about the iComfort and the industry in general (and thank you too NobleRise for the kind comments)

I also believe that latex (in the right combinations) is a much superior material to memory foam however I also realize that some people do like memory foam as personal preference and overall feel plays a big role in mattress choices. I wonder sometimes though if they have truly compared memory foam to a mattress with soft latex as a comfort layer.

Newport Bedding makes their own line of mattresses (and carry memory foam from other manufacturers) which would likely make a good testing ground for you. In addition to their own wide range of mattresses ... they also carry several other brands including Diamond, Aireloom, and Tempur-pedic for reference.

Roomandboard is a retail direct outlet for Restwell (who also sells factory direct) and they too carry a range of latex and memory foam.

Some other manufacturers in your general area include ...

www.bannermattressonline.com/
www.comfortpedicmattress.com/locations/index.php
customcomfortmattress.com/showroom
www.diamondmattress.com/Ethos/About-Ethos/Contact-Us.aspx
www.flexuscomfort.com/contact.html
www.foamsweetfoam.com/directions
www.orthomattress.com/contact
paramountmatt.com/

Looking at their websites and a few calls to these manufacturers letting them know in general what you are looking for, and your budget range, should give you a good sense of what they have available and help you decide which ones to visit. Some of these choices are better than others.

In general though ... I would avoid any of the mattresses that are manufactured by any of the major national brands as they generally have poor value. I would also avoid retail outlets who "push" you into buying "the latest and the greatest" or make "special offers" such as you are describing as they rarely if ever are "real" or represent true value. Stores that are more legitimate will focus on helping you find the best mattress construction within your budget and tell you why each mattress may work for you. They are material oriented and will let you know what is in a mattress layer by layer rather than focusing on a fictitious "deal".

High quality and high value mattresses are available every day of the year and the idea that there is some great sale or "special price" that a consumer will somehow miss if they wait is only misleading marketing or sales practices designed to discourage meaningful comparison shopping.

Phoenix
06 Jul 2011 23:37
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Chris ... and welcome :)

You've asked some great questions ... especially about finding value ... so I hope you don't mind if my reply is a little lengthy.

First about Costco/Sams Club/Walmart type of outlets. In general, I wouldn't look at most of the mattresses they carry (particularly the "S" brands which as you know I don't believe have real value) however they do have some mattresses which have great value such as a few that I've linked in other posts. The reason I like them ... especially in the lower price range ... is that they are "no risk" because of their return policy and these few use good quality materials for the prices that they charge (have good value). If you have done some field testing and know the specifics of a mattress construction that is suitable, then a mattress from an online store like these is far less of a risk because you already know what a mattress that is made almost exactly the same way feels like and if you are completely wrong, then you are only out some time if you end up returning it. They also on occasion have higher quality mattresses available with good value and if someone was not able to find a high value manufacturer near them and did not want to order a mattress sight unseen and risk return charges, then these would be a risk free way to purchase a mattress that would not cost you anything to return. My preference in the case of a higher cost mattress would be to do some field testing and then order from an online factory direct outlet such as some of our members as I believe they have greater value yet and offer more flexibility and better advice however they would normally have some charges involved in making an exchange while Costco etc doesn't.

Some of our members specialize in online purchases an ship across the country and if your field testing gives you a clear idea of the specific construction that works for your needs, then it is a simple matter to duplicate the construction that "works" using the same or very similar materials. Some of these online members also have great return policies if you "get it wrong" and if you are only a "little bit off" they also offer "layer exchanges" to fine tune your mattress to your preferences without having to exchange the whole mattress.


In general terms, there are really two broad parts to finding your perfect mattress ...

The first of these is finding the best construction for your needs (which is the first 3 of the "5 steps to your perfect mattress" outlined on this site. This can be done using the information on this site and doing field testing at any store that will tell you what is in every layer of the mattress that works best for you. Once you know the makeup of these layers, then it is easy to duplicate that specific construction with a reasonable certainty that it will feel the same as the one you field tested.

The biggest advantage of doing field testing at local manufacturers is that almost all of them will tell you exactly what is in their mattress. This gives you the chance to do comparison shopping both at local outlets and through online merchants. Not every local manufacturer of course offers great value however as a group the value there is better than other "categories" of outlets and they are great places for field testing. Other stores that will tell you exactly what is in their mattresses (show you cutaways with each layer and describe each layer) are also good places for field testing.

For example if you go here www.paramountmatt.com/comfortline_coolmax.htm

You will see a mattress that has what looks like some polyfoam and some latex over an innerspring and a very general description of this mattress. If you were to phone them or go there, they would (or at least should) give you much more specific information about the density, thickness, and ILD of all the layers and even compare their polyfoam layers to the polyfoam layers of major manufacturers. You would likely find that the polyfoam they use is higher quality (HD or HR polyfoam) than the major manufacturers which means it would last longer and would probably cost less ... and possibly substantially less ... than a major manufacturer using the same or almost the same materials. They would (or should) also give you more specific information about the latex they use and how thick the layer is. If for some reason their "equivalent" mattress was the same price as an almost identical mattress made by a major manufacturer, then they would still be good for field testing to find out what construction works for you but I would not buy from them.

If you go here www.roomandboard.com/rnb/product/detail.do?productGroup=19517&catalog=room&category=rm_bedrooms&subcategory=mattress

You would see some all latex mattresses that contain about 9" of latex and then have a natural cotton and wool quilting/ticking and that are about $1999 or slightly more if it is customized to have individual left an right sides. If for example you were to go there and found that they used a 36ILD core and that their soft latex was 22 ILD (and you knew the type of latex they were using either Talalay or Dunlop which they would certainly tell you) then you coul duplicate this at any mattress manufacturer and have a mattress that was close to identical. This way you could make a few calls and see if their specific mattress was the best value available to you. If you look at all latex mattresses by a major manufacturer (or even "mostly latex") you will find that they will almost always be substantially more than this.

If for example you compare this with the Sealy Embody mattress sold at US-Mattress here www.us-mattress.com/sealy-shelter.html ... you will find the embody only has 6.5" of latex (almost certainly lower quality latex) over a 5.75" "engineered core" (this means polyfoam which is much much cheaper than latex) and yet this much inferior mattress sells for about $3000 "on sale".

You could also compare this to any other "mostly latex" or "half latex" mattresses made by a major manufacturer such as the Dr Breus signature elite (the top of the line) here www.sleepys.com/en/Dr.-Breus-Signature-Elite-Firm-Eurotop-Mattress-Plus-Free-50-inch-TV_38542/ and even though it is nowhere near all latex, it still costs much more.

If you look at Custom Comfort here customcomfortmattress.com/latex-3 you will see a two sided all latex mattress with 10" of latex and quilted on both sides in the same price range as the "major" manufacturers I mentioned but for a much superior mattress. Custom comfort has a good reputation for quality in the industry even though they are a little more than many local manufacturers. They would also be a good place to find the specific construction that works for you.

If you go here www.comfortpedicmattress.com/knottingham/index.php you will see that they are using high quality materials even though they don't have their prices. They too would likely be happy to help you find the best construction for your mattress and I suspect would cost much less than an "equivalent" mattress from a major manufacturer.

Flexus comfort too would almost certainly be "materials oriented" and help you find the best construction for your needs and would likely cost less than a major manufacturer.

The second main part of the search is making final decisions on materials that otherwise seem "equal" based on durability and then looking for the best value for the specific construction you have chosen. This final step of looking for the best value could be buying from one of the places you did your field testing or it could be buying from an online outlet. In almost all cases ... you will find that a local factory direct outlet will be much greater value than a major manufacturer. While I haven't talked with every local manufacturer of course ... this is certainly the case with most of them and with certainly with The Mattress Underground manufacturer membership which is part of the reason I invited them to become members here.

So to answer your specific question in a shorter version ...

Are these local places really about better quality and value and not less expensive?


In almost all cases where the same or almost the same materials are compared ... yes.

As far as latex vs memory foam ... As you may suspect I personally prefer latex as it has far less of the "negatives" of memory foam however there are many people who also prefer memory foam. Some of these may be consumers who have never really compared memory foam to other alternatives and are just happy with "a new mattress". If you are seriously thinking about memory foam I would certainly include it in your field testing and compare it to about 3" of soft latex in a comfort layer (14-24 ILD) and see how it feels to you. I would also read the article here www.themattressunderground.com/our-articles/memory-foam-pros-and-cons.html so that you are aware "going in" about the main advantages and disadvantages of memory foam in general.

Hope this helps a bit and thanks for the great questions and comments. If you have more ... feel free to post them.

Phoenix
06 Jul 2011 17:30
  • Chris
  • Chris 's Avatar
Hi Phoenix,

First of all...love the site. Very helpful as we begin to dip our toe into the pool of mattress buying. We live in the LA area so i checked out the links you posted:


paramountmatt.com/
www.roomandboard.com/rnb/subcategory/lis...subcategory=mattress
customcomfortmattress.com/
www.comfortpedicmattress.com/index.php
www.flexuscomfort.com/stores.php

They all look like very hi-quality places but don’t seem to be any cheaper than any of the big brands. I was thinking memory foam but you have me thinking more about latex now...although we still need to go test drive the mattress to see what we really like. Are these local places really about better quality and value and not less expensive? Also, you seem ok on costco mattresses. Is that were you get cheaper but not great quality? Like i said, we are new to this and trying to figure it. So far the site has been great.

Thanks again

Chris
28 Jun 2011 06:44
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Recap ... and welcome to the forum

Your budget may be a little on the low side for a quality mattress however here are a few ideas that may help you.

As you probably know from reading this site, a mattress really has two basic functions ... these are comfort/pressure relief and support/spinal alignment. When a consumer has some back issues, the spinal alignment part of this is particularly important as sleeping out of alignment can certainly aggravate back issues.

Also as a side sleeper, while it is likely you will need a firm support layer to prevent your hips from sinking down too far, it is important that the comfort layer of your mattress provides the pressure relief you will need while sleeping on your side. A good starting point for a comfort layer in your testing is approximately 3" of a good quality pressure relieving material. As far as an innerspring, I would not worry too much about which type in your price range as long as it has at least a 400 coil count (in a queen) and has a gauge of 14 or better (for a lower coil count). More information about different innersprings can be found here www.themattressunderground.com/mattresses/support-cores/innersprings.html

I personally believe that memory foam is not a great choice for a comfort layer for someone with back issues as it can soften over time and it will also "creep" during the night which can result in sleeping out of alignment as you sink down deeper over the course of the night. It is also very tricky to "get right". Latex foam or alternatively a high quality polyurethane foam (HR polyfoam) are in my opinion better choices. Latex in particular has similar pressure relieving qualities to memory foam, will last much longer, and will not change in softness and support with changes in temperature or over the course of the night.

If you are willing to include a polyfoam support core as an option, you will also have more choices than limiting your choices to an innerspring. For example Walmart sells a mattress with a polyfoam support core and 3" of Talalay latex in the comfort layer for $505. While some of these have had issues decompressing after shipping (the support core did not fully expand), they are also returnable with Walmart's return policy if this happens.

I would also tend to avoid the major mattress manufacturers (Sealy, Simmons, and Serta are some examples) who almost always use lower quality foams and who in my opinion charge too much for their mattresses in comparison with local manufacturers who use higher quality materials and charge less for them. While they do make some good mattresses, they do not usually represent good value when compared to other options.

The Cason Bay for example in the Ultra Firm has over 3" of lower quality foam over the innersprings which is the weakest link in the mattress and the first part of the mattress which will wear out and degrade. This is what leads to loss of comfort and support and body impressions. The less firm models have even more of this foam. Having said that, they are often available for well under $500 (in queen size) at the Sears discount outlets and at that price they may be worth considering if you know from field testing that they are suitable for your comfort and support needs even though they may not last as long as a higher quality mattress.

Flippable mattresses, particularly in a lower priced mattress, are well worth it as having two sides can result in significantly longer life and retention of comfort and support for a longer period of time. In the case of a latex comfort layer, a flippable mattress is not as important as the latex is extremely durable and resilient.

A Full XL is not a "normal" size and it may be wise to look at Queen as there may not be a lot of difference in price in many cases and it will give you more options to look at.

As I mentioned, a $650 budget is on the low end and if you can I would increase it slightly but if that is not possible ... I would probably be looking at either latex over polyfoam or latex over innerspring construction in your mattress and if that is not possible then a high quality HR polyfoam over similar support cores.

Some manufacturers or direct outlets in the LA area that may be worth a call or visit to see what they have available are ...

paramountmatt.com/
www.roomandboard.com/rnb/subcategory/list.do?catalog=room&category=rm_bedrooms&subcategory=mattress
customcomfortmattress.com/
www.comfortpedicmattress.com/index.php
www.flexuscomfort.com/stores.php

Good luck and if you need any further ideas or have questions please feel free to post them

Phoenix
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