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Searched for: Tuft Needle
03 Jan 2020 09:50
  • Sensei
  • Sensei's Avatar
Hey Lokenzal,

Welcome to the TMU Forum :) ! Thanks for your question.

I understand that most mattress review sites are junk, but what about consumer reports? They are well established and as far as I'm aware have a good reputation. They have a lot of cheaper mattresses well rated and I'm curious if they can be trusted in their reviews of mattresses.

Here are some thoughts from a previous Phoenix post that best expresses our views on the CR topic, post #2 here :

You can also see my comments about the Consumer Reports mattress ratings and recommendations in post #2 here and in this topic . While they may be a good source of information about more "objective" purchases ... as you can see I would consider them to be an unreliable source of information or guidance about purchasing a mattress and their "ratings" are somewhat nonsensical and meaningless. My thoughts are also shared by most of the more knowledgeable people in the industry (see post #5 here for an example).

While other people's comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful, I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about using anyone else's suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you.

29 Dec 2019 00:11
  • mtu1912
  • mtu1912's Avatar
Greetings --
Apologies if this thread is getting a little overscoped. I'm posting here due to the involvement of Nest reps and the fact that I don't seem to have an option to start a new thread.

We are currently about 5 weeks into ownership of a Caspar Wave Hybrid, purchased when we were desperate and had not yet discovered this site. It's a pretty good mattress, but doesn't quite accommodate my side-sleeping mate (5'2", 180) correctly. We now have a much better idea of how to test that -- thank you, TMU. The Wave has also already begun to form slight valleys, though I can't tell yet if it's a problem -- about 1/8" max in both our sleeping positions, but that hasn't increased since week #1, so maybe it's just the quilting layer and wouldn't matter long term. That part is a sore subject in our house -- more on that below.

After better educating ourselves here, we've auditioned several others in showrooms recently, and have found some interesting things. First, the 4" Purple seems to work very well for her. I mention the Purple because it provides a reference point -- her shoulders and hips sink in just perfectly with no pressure points, as designed, and the lumbar feels well supported in between. That's the problem we've been trying to solve, and the Purple works like it's supposed to in that regard. Unfortunately, in addition to being very expensive, that type of material has significant downsides which we don't like (well documented elsewhere).

It turns out that the Nest natural hybrid latex, in plush, seems to be nearly as good at that, without the downsides of the buckling column gel. That, plus the benefit of the horizontal split (I'm all over the place and like my side a little firmer), makes it a very attractive option. We also like the replaceability of the comfort layer -- a big plus down the road. Finally, I can't say I've ever encountered mattress store personnel nearly as willing to take time to help and answer detailed questions as Nick at your Seattle store was.

So, I have a few questions:
  • The product page for this mattress currently says the 3" replaceable layer is 27 ILD. Is it safe to assume that's the medium? What are the ILDs for the firm and soft? I'm just trying to relate the feel we perceived to the numbers published, to better understand what they mean.
  • I'm very puzzled by the apparent disconnect between the blog post on Nest's site which claims that "body impressions" should not happen (www.nestbedding.com/blogs/news/6836230-why-did-my-bed-get-a-body-impression-and-how-to-prevent-it), against Nest's published warranty, which allows up to 1" sag before a claim will be honored.

We were badly disappointed by a Sealy Diamond Supreme which had completely failed structurally at only 4 years -- it not only had measured 1" depressions, but the sides were visibly bulged outward, indicating a significant material failure. (Mind you, we're not that big -- BMIs of just below and just above 30). Sealy's warranty only covers 1.5" sag. To say we're a little sensitive to this issue would be fair. We were tired of sleeping in valleys with a mountain between us.

So far, the best warranties I've seen, vis-a-vis "body impressions", are from Tuft and Needle (3/4") and Luma (1/2", though for some reason, you have to ask Luma for the warranty document, as they don't publish it). Those figures seem to indicate higher confidence in the resistance to cratering, though T&N is unfortunately not transparent about their materials.

We'd be interested in thoughts on this, from Nest as well as other experienced folks. We'd like to calibrate our expectations appropriately, because sleeping in craters made us very grumpy!

TMU: thank you very much for this site. I know that running a forum can be thankless, and it can be a lot of labor. Objective information is very refreshing and very welcome -- you've done consumers a tremendous service.
09 Nov 2019 14:37
  • Sensei
  • Sensei's Avatar
Hey gamafn,

Welcome back to the Mattress Forum :) ! Thanks for your question.

We are both now officially active senior citizens with the associated arthritis and joint aches. Our current mattress is a 9-year-old firm memory foam, and it’s time to move on to a more pressure-relieving alternative. We are both under 30 BMI side-sleepers, our budget is $1000, and we have no problem with beds in a box. Have reviewed both Nectar and Tuft & Needle models but there seems to be a considerable lack of consensus in online reviews. Need model alternative advice. Thanks.

Just curious, what size mattress are you looking for and where are you located? Several of our trusted retail/ manufacturer members offer Bed In a Box solutions and offer a bit of a discount to our TMU consumer members, something to consider…

Have you read TMU's " Mattress comfort layers- Overview "? You may find this information interesting while researching your new mattress purchase. Of interest too would be this Ultimate Dream mattress firmness level post #2 where Phoenix discusses one of the most common questions on the forum (which mattress type or firmness level would be better for me?). Also you may want to check out Five steps to your perfect mattress- Comfort and pressure relief , another helpful guide for researching comfort layer materials and thicknesses.


07 Nov 2019 04:23
  • gamafn
  • gamafn's Avatar
We are both now officially active senior citizens with the associated arthritis and joint aches. Our current mattress is a 9-year-old firm memory foam, and it’s time to move on to a more pressure-relieving alternative. We are both under 30 BMI side-sleepers, our budget is $1000, and we have no problem with beds in a box. Have reviewed both Nectar and Tuft & Needle models but there seems to be a considerable lack of consensus in online reviews. Need model alternative advice. Thanks.
07 Oct 2019 19:29
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi mannotbear.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum :) and good job narrowing down your choices! … the mattresses you selected use 8” pocket coil with added edge support you like and 3 zones for lumbar support and fall within your budget range. I’d say that you should opt for the most comfortable mattress with the highest density foams in the comfort layers (top 1/3) of the mattress. I’d want something with gel memory foam densities greater than 3.5lbs for a long-lasting mattress.

1. Any thoughts or concerns that might help me lean to one or the other?

I’d pay special attention to the mattress “feel” you are looking for… especially in the comfort layer. Memory foam can be a "love it or hate it" material and it certainly has "weaknesses" that latex doesn't have even though they are roughly equivalent in terms of cradling and their ability to relieve pressure. You can read more about the newer memory/poly foams. You can read more about the newer generation of polyfoams here that Aurora uses.

Helix uses only polyfoam and proprietary blends of memory foams in their products but depending on your firmness choice, Dusk would have a more in the mattress feel while with Luma’s you would get more on the mattress feel because of the resilience (springiness) of latex without losing the cradling effect. (This may also help with the pains and aches you mentioned because it’s inherent supportiveness and ease to reposition throughout the night) Aurora uses the new generation poly which has some of the latex properties.

Another thing I’d pay attention to is the breathability and how “hot the mattress sleeps”. Some types of memory foam are also more breathable than others and have less effect on sleeping temperature but memory foam, in general, tends to sleep warmer for some people than other types of foam materials (latex foam or polyfoam). There is more about the different properties that can be formulated into memory foam ~ post #9 here and post #8 here .

2. Is there a reason to choose a queen over a king? e.g. kings sag more often.

The price increase from Queen to King may be something to keep in mind if you have budgetary concerns .. especially as you’d need to consider the foundation and all other sleeping accessories. As far as sagging goes .. theoretically we have more space on the mattress to "wear out" but practically we'll typically tend to drift towards the same spot on the mattress (weather Queen or King) which is where the most mechanical stress will occur. If the components used in the top layers of the mattress meet durability guidelines here you'd expect to have minimal impressions over time.

You may want Helix about the foam thickens they use in the comfort layers of their pillowtop of their Dusk Luxe, … site states 2.5 PCF density Visco Gel (IFD: 10.) // HD Memory Foam - IFD: Varies Density: 2.5 PCF Helix blend. // Dynamic Foam - latex-foam hybrid alternative: 10-20. Density: 3.0-4.0 PCF\.

There is more about the 3 most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here helping with meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your Mattress buying personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

I hope this gives a bit more info to help with your final choice.
08 Sep 2019 08:41
  • Jewels
  • Jewels's Avatar
Thank you for your response.

To clarify: You believe the Capitol Bedding mattress may not hold up due to the 1.8 lb polyurethane foam in top layer of mattress. If so, why do so many bed in a box mattresses use 1.8 lb polyurethane as a base for their mattresses? Do you find that 1.8 lb polyurethane foam doesn't hold up over time. Can you tell me what company makes the Capitol Bedding Hickory Coil units?

Lots of questions, as usual!!

Thanks for the information regarding who makes the Tuft & Needle.


08 Sep 2019 06:45
  • Sensei
  • Sensei's Avatar
Hey Jewels,

Thanks for the spec information on the Capitol. Noted on the latex not working. You saw my notes on the comfort layers breaking down. The Hickory coil units are good quality, big company, but coil products are high quality.

Another fabricator, IBS (Innovative Bedding Solutions), in Buena Vista, CA makes the majority of the Tuft and Needle mattresses, I think they ship them all to Amazon Fulfillment centers. T&N may have a secondary source also, but the majority are made by IBS.

02 Sep 2019 08:25
  • Jewels
  • Jewels's Avatar
:( Hello!

I couldn't believe it when the Casper representative told me the density of the foams was a "secret." I get that response, as you mentioned, from Sealy, Serta and so on.

Here are the specs for the Capitol Bedding Mattress:

1 inch of high density foam. The actual density is not given.
1 inch of 1.8 lb polyurethane foam.

3/8 of 1.8 lb poly foam.
Quilted Versare inner layer.

Comfort Layer:
1.5 inches of 1.8 poly foam.
1 inch of 2.5 poly foam.

Hickory's InnerAct LFK Coil.
14.5 gauge.
1.5 inches of high density foam. Density not given.

Edge Support:
V Clips attached to border rod.

This sounds decent. I have issues with most chemicals that mattresses now contain. However, I don't sleep well on latex so that's not an option.

Finally, I found out that Serta purchased Tuft & Needle. Do you know if Brooklyn Bedding makes the Tuft & Needle mattress?

Thank you,
14 Aug 2019 07:48
  • diynaturalbedding
  • diynaturalbedding's Avatar
Hello mattress4life,

Another option besides trying to sell the items is to repurpose them. For example, you can cut the latex for chair cushions, layer it for couch cushions or shred it for pillows. I know some who have shredded it for chair cushions, in that loose form they also have needed to add a tuft or two to help it keep its shape.

The wool can be turned into a pillow or a comforter. St. Peter Woolen Mill can wash and recard your wool for you. See recarding here: www.woolenmill.com/products-services/

The wool can also be turned into roving and used for hand crafts. Wool dyes well with readily available dyes like koolaid. Felting is a very popular craft with wool and pretty simple. Here is one craft you can make with wool: lincolnshirefenncraftsblog.com/2019/02/06/how-to-needle-felt-a-picture/ A much more simple one would be the popular wool dryer balls. www.thinking-about-cloth-diapers.com/make-wool-dryer-balls.html
15 Jul 2019 13:19
  • SleepDeprived
  • SleepDeprived's Avatar
Thank you, Phoenix, I was afraid you'd say that all these terms are pretty much meaningless. It's so difficult when you are shopping online to know what to expect.

After 5 years on my SleepEZ latex bed, I feel like I need some kind of change but even after all of the reading and research and trying different mattresses, I do not know where to turn to get the attributes I need. I need a bed that will hold my spine in a neutral position but I also need a top layer that will give soft comfort and eliminate pressure points. I have pinched nerves in my lower & upper back and neck that cause pain issues. Unfortunately, every time I add a topper to my latex bed, I end up sinking in at my hips and losing the neutral spine position.

If you go with a mattress that holds your spine neutral, it always seems to be a hard, firm mattress that doesn't cushion your bones at all, but if you go with a soft, cushy mattress, your spine sags and it puts pressure on those pinched nerves. How in the heck do you find a mattress that satisfies both requirements? Can it be done or is it always a trade-off?

I have tried 2 other mattresses and neither has worked for me. Both times I went back to my SleepEZ because even though the latex bothers me, at least it's better. Purple and Tuft & Needle Mint were both too firm. I end up turning over all night because my shoulder and hip fall asleep, and I got a lot of discomfort because my shoulder doesn't sink in at all, so my spine gets a crick in it between my shoulder blades.

15 Jun 2019 20:25
  • Dok
  • Dok's Avatar
My current "mattress" consists of:
3 inches of firm dunlop latex (5.9 pcf, 44ILD)
2 inches of some kind of memory foam
3 inches of some kind of gel memory foam

I don't know anything about the specs of the memory foams other than that they are significantly more compressable than the latex (all 5 inches can be pinched down to less than an inch with less force than it takes to pinch the latex down to 2 inches).

And this is laid on top of a piece of plywood on top of a cheap platform bed. I like the feel a lot, but it's not quite perfect and I'm looking for some suggestions on how to tweak it a bit.

What I like:
+ The even support. Other beds (including my old bed, and a tuft and needle I tried out a few years back) always felt like my hips would sink all the way down while my sholders wouldn't press into the mattress much at all, putting strain on my lower back.
+ The contouring of the memory foam

What I don't like:
- It sleeps pretty hot
- The memory foam doesn't feel very responsive, so there winds up being a kind of uncomfortable impression in the morning.
- When I'm sleeping on my side in particular, my hips and shoulders tend to bottom out and press flat a bit too much, and the part that gets flattened starts to get sore. It's better than lower back pain, but less than ideal.

My thought is that I'd like to remove some or all of the memory foam and replace it with latex to minimize as much of what I don't like while keeping as much of what I do like, but I haven't found a store near me that's got a ton of latex options to try. I figured another couple of 3" latex slabs would be a good place to start, and was hoping to get some input on how the different densities and types of latex would impact the specific likes/dislikes I have about my current set up. The most important thing is that I absolutely don't want to have that hammocking feel, and I'm concerned that adding any medium density/medium firmness layer will contribute to that. While at the same time, I'm not sure if just adding more firm latex will do anything to keep me from bottoming out the comfort layers.

Some background:

My old bed (and a tuft and needle I tried a few years back) hammocked too much no matter what I did, and after realizing all of the soft toppers I bought were going in the wrong direction, I bought the firm latex topper to put on the bare coils from the hybrid and try and match the feel of some mattresses I'd tried and liked at a local mattress store. It worked, but it turned out that I enjoyed laying on a really firm mattress, but I didn't enjoy sleeping on it. So I ditched the cheap spring base, rearranged the other mattress guts/toppers I had, and am trying to figure out what I should do long term.

I'm in my mid 30s, ~215lbs, 5'10". I'm a combination back/side sleeper.

Thanks for any suggestions/help, I really appreciate it.
09 May 2019 14:03
  • HaDov
  • HaDov's Avatar
Hi there,

I've been trying to find the right mattress for the past three months or so, and it's been a bumpy ride. I've been bouncing (heh) from mattress to mattress and I could really use some advice on how to proceed.

First, a little background. I'm a side sleeper, male, 35 years, 5'9" and currently about 225 lbs (although my weight has fluctuated between 205 and 225 over the past year or two). I'm pretty broadly built, with relatively wide shoulders and hips. My budget is $1,200 (but i'd love to spend less, of course).

Here's what happened:

I bought my first mattress from Mattress Firm in February, a Simmons Beautyrest Recharge Bay Spring Luxury Firm Pillowtop. It turned out to be more "firm" than "luxury": I spent two weeks getting poor sleep and walking around with significant pain in my side -- often on the side that's on top when I sleep, not the side I was sleeping on. This was clearly too hard.

I exchanged it for a fancier and much softer mattress, the Serta iSeries Hybrid 300 Plush (a Mattress Firm exclusive). At first it was great -- I *loved* the softer feel of the comfort layers, and I was able to sleep just fine. But I noticed that I was frequently waking up with soreness in my lower back (which went away immediately when I slept on a firmer mattress in a hotel!) I tried to make it work for over a month, but in the end, I had to send that back too.

After striking out twice with Mattress Firm, I said "screw this" and ordered a Nectar. I'd tried it out once and liked the feel, plus I'd hoped the memory foam would be soft and contouring without sagging. After a few weeks, I can say it's definitely better -- I'm not having the lower back issues I had on the Serta, and the surface feel is pretty soft. Unfortunately, my hips are sinking in quite deep, and it feels like there's a pressure point forming there. I'm also not liking how "dead" and unresponsive the bed feels.

I'm trying out a topper to see if that helps (Tuft & Needle's "&Topper", since I've tested out a couple of their mattresses and liked the soft/bouncy feel). If that doesn't work, I'm not sure what to do. I'm still within my trial period for the Nectar, so I can still send it back. I liked the feel of both Tuft & Needle models ("T&N" and "Mint"); I'm tempted to order one of those. But I've already bought three mattresses in three months, and if I have to buy a fourth, I want to make darn sure there isn't a fifth.

Basically, I'd like something soft and plush, ideally with a little bounce, that still supports and aligns my 225 lb body.

What should I do?

28 Apr 2019 22:04
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi calentarse,

Thanks for the update. I am also glad BB/Dreamfoam recognized the clear issue with your mattress. That is too bad you can't choose, but it certainly can't hurt that you communicated your desire for a "firm but supportive" mattress. Especially when they are replacing a defective mattress, it's hard for companies to allow consumers to just start choosing new brands/models (although it totally makes sense for both parties).

Please let us know if you have any other questions or concerns and good luck with the replacement.

27 Apr 2019 18:45
  • calentarse
  • calentarse's Avatar
In short, the company is sending us a new mattress. Not sure if I have any say in which it will be but I mentioned that my wife and I prefer a firmer than average feel, and by that I mean a very supportive mattress. We currently have the dreamfoam flipped over because of the degradation of the sleeping side and it is sleepable. Certainly better than the mush that is the other side...Im just grateful they are recognizing that the mattress should not have done this after 2 years at this price point.
27 Apr 2019 16:59
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi calentarse,

Private Messaging would not work as there are some technical issues with it and with too many channels of communication that compete for my time I decided to put the PM on the back burner. Please feel free to email me at: phoenix (at) themattressunderground (dot) com if it helps you decide if you want to update the forum with this information. I'll be watching for your email.

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