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Searched for: Restonic
24 Sep 2016 09:48
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Dirk,

Thanks Phoenix for the update. I just wanted to add that the Healthy Back closed its Columbia locations. I was worried that the DC locations wouldn't ship to me as I live more than 20 miles away. The Bedding Barn is gone as well.


Thanks for letting me know about both of these as well. I've edited the locations on the list for Healthy Back and removed Bedding Barn from the list.

A few of them have been converted to Mattress and More Liquidators Link. The store looks rather shady from the outside as it advertises $100 mattresses, but they had a good selection of Therapedic and Eclipse mattresses and the nicest sales staff. The one in Glen Burnie had the 2 beds we liked.


I would be very cautious about any store that has the word "liquidator" in it because you may be buying a used mattress that someone has returned for "unknown" reasons (such as a comfort return or warranty return) and doesn't have a manufacturers warranty. I would need a very compelling reason to visit them and if they are selling mattresses without a warranty I would consider it to be a "buyer beware" purchase (see post #8 here ).

I realize the list was the top 15 manufactures, but I only bothered with the ones you labeled "Good Possibility". Aside from the Therapedic mattresses, we were able to find some Restonic mattresses. The only local manufacturer we have is Classic. The various stores tend to sell a lot of their low end memory foam mattresses. They may have better offerings and maybe we will find them in our travels.


One of the most important (and time saving) parts of local research is calling the stores you wish to visit and asking some questions before you visit them (see this article ).

It is amazing how little information these folks have. When I asked a couple people about this I got responses like, "Feel how dense it is" or "This has the best foam that XYZ company makes". Some were nice enough to admit that they don't know and have only the information the manufacturer gives them. A lot of the information I saw was less than what I posted for the 2 mattresses above. The manufacturers websites don't list any of this info either. You think that if they were really making a great product that they would list everything to show off. The other problem was just finding latex beds. Some of the people who claim to have them can "Get them for you, no problem", but have none on the floor or maybe 1 or 2 to try.


As sad as it is ... most of the members here that have spent a couple of hours or more on this site and reading the tutorial will know more about mattresses and mattress materials than most of the salespeople in the mainstream industry.

We did talk to someone who knew everything about his product, but they were over $3K for a mattress which is quite a bit out of our price range.


Testing their mattresses would at least give you a good sense of what latex mattresses can feel like and the difference between Talalay and Dunlop latex as well but if you are talking about Savvy Rest then they are certainly in a higher budget range than many other similar component latex mattresses that are sold online.

I should mention both beds cannot be flipped.


Most mattresses in the industry are one sided and it's fairly uncommon to see two sided mattresses that can be flipped.

The Eastman House bed allegedly has 5lbs of density as the top layers. He didn't get into specifics on each layer. So I don't know if it is a cumulative 5lbs or just the top layer or what. It is entirely Talalay. He went into how Talalay was more bouncy than Dunlop and how they make Talalay, which isn't what I was really interested in.


Density isn't cumulative ... it only applies to individual layers. With polyfoam and memory foam you need to know the density but with latex it's the type and blend of the latex that you need to know ... although again any latex is a durable material and knowing the type and blend just allows you to make more meaningful comparisons with other mattresses. You need the specific information about of each layer.

If the limited specs you listed are correct then because there is 4" of latex above the polyfoam layers it's less likely that the mattress has a weak link in the design (the top layers are where the durability of the materials is most important) but I would still want to know the specifics of all the layers.

The Eclipse is 3.5 lbs of density and the manufacture said that it was blended material and wouldn't say much more.


Again you need to know whether each layer is memory foam or polyfoam and the density of each layer. What he told you has very little meaning because a mattress itself doesn't have a density ... only the individual layers.

In many cases a manufacturer's rep will provide these specs to a retailer (who in turn can tell you) but the manufacturer themselves may not provide them directly to a consumer. It's the retailer's job to track down any specs their customers need but if for some reason a retailer or manufacturer either isn't willing or able to provide you with all the information that you need to make an informed choice then I would pass the mattress by because it would be a risky purchase.


@dsw61,

One very reputable local mattress store,gets the price down some by sandwiching a high quality poly foam core between two layers of Talalay latex; and market it as a latex mattress that can be flipped.


This sounds like OMF and the polyfoam that they use in their two sided latex mattress is a high quality and durable material and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in their Serenity latex mattress but they also aren't available in the Baltimore area.

I learned that I can buy a 100% all natural latex mattress for a couple of hundred dollars less than the one with the poly foam core by ordering from one of the on line sites that sell latex mattresses.


You are right that there are some very good quality/value latex mattresses available online. The mattress shopping tutorial includes this link to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online (in the optional online step) and many of them sell latex and latex hybrid mattresses that use different types and blends of latex that have a wide range of different designs (including component latex mattress kits), options, features, return and exchange policies, and prices that would be well worth considering.

Post #3 here also includes a list of many of the online manufacturers that sell component latex mattress kits as well (with some overlap with the members list).

My experience also taught me that a mattress that combines poly foam and latex, feels different than a mattress that is all latex.


In most cases that would certainly be true although it would depend to some degree on the amount of latex above the polyfoam. There is also a very wide range of different "feels" between different all latex mattresses as well. There is more about the pros and cons of latex/polyfoam hybrids vs an all latex mattress in post #2 here .

You may also want to do some research about mattress fire retardants, as well as what goes into the various foams used in mattresses.


i would stick with the very basics about fire retardants because this can take you down the rabbit hole of some confusing, conflicting, and misleading information that is more than most consumers really want or need to know. In most cases it's enough to confirm that a mattress uses either wool or an inherent fire resistant barrier to pass the fire regulations rather than getting into the more detailed specifics of all the many variations.

I certainly agree that it's important to know the basic differences between the three different types of foam (polyfoam, memory foam, and latex foam) and making sure that the foam in a mattress has a reliable safety certification (all latex will have a reliable certification and the most common certification for memory foam and polyfoam would be CertiPUR) but beyond that knowing the more detailed specifics of how different types of foam are made or formulated is a long term study that isn't particularly important and wouldn't be very helpful anyway.

Phoenix
24 Sep 2016 06:30
  • Dirk
  • Dirk's Avatar

I checked all the links in the Baltimore list and you're right that the list needed some updating (I hadn't updated it since last year)


Thanks Phoenix for the update. I just wanted to add that the Healthy Back closed its Columbia locations. I was worried that the DC locations wouldn't ship to me as I live more than 20 miles away. The Bedding Barn is gone as well. A few of them have been converted to Mattress and More Liquidators Link . The store looks rather shady from the outside as it advertises $100 mattresses, but they had a good selection of Therapedic and Eclipse mattresses and the nicest sales staff. The one in Glen Burnie had the 2 beds we liked.

If you mean this list then it isn't a "good list" as much as a list of the top 15 largest manufacturers with a rating that indicates the likelihood that you will be able to find out all the specs you need to make an informed choice.


I realize the list was the top 15 manufactures, but I only bothered with the ones you labeled "Good Possibility". Aside from the Therapedic mattresses, we were able to find some Restonic mattresses. The only local manufacturer we have is Classic. The various stores tend to sell a lot of their low end memory foam mattresses. They may have better offerings and maybe we will find them in our travels.

Unfortunately the specs you listed don't include any information about the type and density of the foam layers in the mattress (which is the most important information that you need to know)


It is amazing how little information these folks have. When I asked a couple people about this I got responses like, "Feel how dense it is" or "This has the best foam that XYZ company makes". Some were nice enough to admit that they don't know and have only the information the manufacturer gives them. A lot of the information I saw was less than what I posted for the 2 mattresses above. The manufacturers websites don't list any of this info either. You think that if they were really making a great product that they would list everything to show off. The other problem was just finding latex beds. Some of the people who claim to have them can "Get them for you, no problem", but have none on the floor or maybe 1 or 2 to try. We did talk to someone who knew everything about his product, but they were over $3K for a mattress which is quite a bit out of our price range.
08 Sep 2016 09:50
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi chelsea,

I have some long standing back & neck injuries. I'm 5'7'', 168 lbs, BMI of 27--Carry my weight through hips & thighs.
Start on my back--sit up in bed to watch tv in evening & in morning. Then usually sleep on side. Feel like I need firm support under lower back, but then some comfort at shoulder & hip, when I roll on side.
I seemed to gravitate towards hybrids-innerspring with a top comfort layer that is med to firm.. However, my back & neck hurt after trying out mattresses ( Quite exhausting for me) .
Initially, "liked" Restonic Hybrid Portland-unsure of top layer-memory foam & durability. Store did not have a latex top layer on innerspring. Also, Serta I-comfort hybrid observer PT. Very concerned about Serta's durability.
---Any Suggestions??? Really liked the dealer-Crane


While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but just in case you haven't read it yet ... the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else or whether it will be a good "match" in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress ... outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

Thanks for your previous info. I am looking for a new mattress with an adjustable bed.

---Sales for $$$ off foundation (including adj bases) but due to treatment, can't visit that soon. Do other discounts keep coming up. My mattress is very old & will try to do this as soon as possible.
---Original Mattress Factory & Denver Mattress much farther drive & a delivery charge. But would make the effort if they would have options.
---Adjustable bed. Dealer carried glideaway. What do you think? Do you recommend a brand?? Concerned about durability. I want head & leg to raise--NO Massage. Dealer offers 10 yr parts & labor on Glideaway for additional $149.


I would treat the purchase of an adjustable bed and a mattress as two separate purchases so you can decide which one of each you prefer and make apples to apples comparisons with each of them instead of being locked in to a combination where you may prefer either the mattress or the adjustable but not both (unless of course you would purchase the same mattress and adjustable from the same source if you were buying them separately anyway or you are receiving a discount for buying both that would make purchasing the combination purchase worthwhile for you). If a mattress works well on one adjustable bed then the same mattress will "work" just as well on any adjustable bed.

There is more information about choosing an adjustable bed in post #3 here and the main adjustable bed topic that it links to that can help you choose an adjustable bed based on price vs features comparisons and also includes some retailers that you can use as good sources of information about the features of the adjustable beds they carry and as pricing references as well (in post #6 in the main adjustable bed topic). Of course there are many other sources as well and prices can change on a regular basis so I would also include some internet searching in your research. I would also keep in mind that online advertised prices are often price controlled so make sure you call the stores you are considering to find out their best prices rather than just looking at websites.

I would consider all the major adjustable bed manufacturers to be closely comparable in terms of reliability so I would use price and feature comparisons to choose between them.

There are also some comments about extended warranties for adjustable beds in this topic that may be helpful.

Phoenix
08 Sep 2016 09:31
  • chelsea
  • chelsea's Avatar
Hi Phoenix
Thanks for your previous info. I am looking for a new mattress with an adjustable bed.
I have some long standing back & neck injuries. I'm 5'7'', 168 lbs, BMI of 27--Carry my weight through hips & thighs.
Start on my back--sit up in bed to watch tv in evening & in morning. Then usually sleep on side. Feel like I need firm support under lower back, but then some comfort at shoulder & hip, when I roll on side.
I seemed to gravitate towards hybrids-innerspring with a top comfort layer that is med to firm.. However, my back & neck hurt after trying out mattresses ( Quite exhausting for me) .
Initially, "liked" Restonic Hybrid Portland-unsure of top layer-memory foam & durability. Store did not have a latex top layer on innerspring. Also, Serta I-comfort hybrid observer PT. Very concerned about Serta's durability.
---Any Suggestions??? Really liked the dealer-Crane
---Sales for $$$ off foundation (including adj bases) but due to treatment, can't visit that soon. Do other discounts keep coming up. My mattress is very old & will try to do this as soon as possible.
---Original Mattress Factory & Denver Mattress much farther drive & a delivery charge. But would make the effort if they would have options.
---Adjustable bed. Dealer carried glideaway. What do you think? Do you recommend a brand?? Concerned about durability. I want head & leg to raise--NO Massage. Dealer offers 10 yr parts & labor on Glideaway for additional $149.

Thanks
Also offer charge of 1
05 Sep 2016 10:07
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi chelsea,

Good Morning!! Looking for factory direct manufacturers and better retailers (for testing out a new mattress)
within driving distance from Port Clinton, Ohio 43452.



There isn't a forum list for the Port Clinton area so I did some initial research to see if there were any local "possibilities" and subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets your criteria and the quality/value guidelines here ... the better options or possibilities I saw in and around Port Clinton and the manufacturers they carry that I would consider as "possibilities" include ...

www.harbormattress.com/. Retailer in Port Clinton and Oak Harvor, OH. They carry a range of Symbol mattresses which may be possibilities.

www.cranesmattress.com/ Retailer in Findlay, Sandusky, Fremont, and Tiffin, OH. The Restonic mattresses they carry are the ones that may be possibilities here.

levinmattress.com/default.aspx Retailer with a store in Sandusky, OH. They carry some White Dove mattresses (their Grand Legacy line) which are the ones that may be possibilities here.

A little further away there is also a list for the Toledo area in post #2 here and for the Cincinnati/Akron area in post #2 here .

Phoenix
19 Aug 2016 08:57
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Dave75,

Specs for the 3 mattresses, that I have:

Restonic:
2" Deep Tack & Jump Quilted Cover with Marvelous Middle Construction
1" Gel-Infused TempaFoam in Quilt
1" Comfort Soft Foam in Quilt
1" Exclusive Tri-Zone, Comfort Soft Posture Foam
Heavy Duty Insulator Pad
420 Coil (Queen), Foam Encased Tempered, Lower Gauge Bonnell Innerspring
(upper layers reversed on second side)

Are the foam layers in the quilt in addition to the 2" cover, or is 2" the total depth?

Symbol Stafford
Tac & Jump Quilting
High Loft FR Fiber
1 1/2" Quilt Foam
1/2" High Density GEL Foam Center 1/3 Lumbar Pad
2" Extra Firm Convoluted Foam
Insulator Pad
1" Support Foam
Insulator Pad
Foam Encased 630XT Superlastic Continuous Coils
(upper levels reversed on side 2)

Bed Boss Hybrid:
Silk-Blended Fabric Cover with Poly-Satin Trim
1" Heat-Dissipating, Bamboo-Infused Higher-Density Foam in Cover
2" Traditional Memory Foam
2" UltraCore HD Memory Foam
6.5" Individually-Wrapped Pocket Coil Inner Spring Unit
2" Higher-Resliency Base Foam

I didn't get specific densities for the foams, but Bed Boss did give me a range of 2.8-4.7 for the foams they use in all of their models. Is it reasonable to use the lower end of the range for polyfoam and the upper end for memory foam? If so,the downside of this mattress is the lack of added support in the middle.


Unfortunately it's not possible to make any meaningful comments about any of the mattresses you are considering without knowing the type and density of all the foam layers in each mattress. A range of 2.8 - 4.7 isn't specific enough because 2.7 lb memory foam would be a low quality and less durable material which would certainly be a reason for concern if it is more than about an inch or so while 4.7 lb density memory foam would be a much more durable material. The suitable density range for polyfoam and memory foam are also very different. For example a 2.7 lb layer would be a high quality and durable material if it was polyfoam and would be a low quality and much less durable material if it was memory foam. If you can find out the density of all the foam layers in each mattress then I'd be happy to let you know if there are any lower quality materials or weak links that would be a reason for concern in terms of the durability and useful life of each mattress.

Based on your description it sounds like the two layers that are described as being in the Restonic quilt are the individual components of the 2" total for the quilting layers. You can always confirm this by adding up the thickness of all the layers and components in the mattress and confirming that they add up to the total thickness of the mattress.

Phoenix
19 Aug 2016 08:30
  • Dave75
  • Dave75's Avatar
Following up on my initial post...

I am still shopping for a mattress. I visited Mattress Source, Denver Mattress, and Sleep Doctor, and have contacted Michigan Discount Mattress. I wasn't thrilled with Denver Mattress, though I did buy a bed frame from Furniture Row ;) . I liked the Capitol Bedding mattresses at Mattress Source, but I am a little concerned about durability because we are larger than average, and the foam densities on the mattresses I looked at are on the low end of the recommended range. I really liked the Bespoke and Bloomfield mattresses, but they were a bit out of our price range.

Sleep Doctor had a local store, so I checked them out. I liked the TheraSleep mattress, but I wasn't able to find any more information about them, so I am not considering them at this point. The salesman said it is a latex/foam hybrid with a 2.5 lb polyfoam base, and that the mattress is made in Grand Rapids. I don't remember the depths, so there may be some other materials in there, but otherwise the materials seemed good, if the salesman was telling the truth. The only manufacturer I found in Grand Rapids is a Spring Air licensee. Does anyone know anything else about these mattresses?

At this point I am most strongly considering a couple of two-sided beds and the Bed Boss Hybrid from MIchigan Discount Mattress. The two-sided mattresses are the Symbol Stafford Firm Gel-Infused and the Restonic Comfort Care Westfield Plush. Pending testing results, the Restonic is probably highest on the list because of the extra support in the middle and the overall opinion of the brand. I didn't get specifics on foam density when I called, but the man did say the mattress was made in Escanaba (Clare Bedding, I gather?).

Specs for the 3 mattresses, that I have:

Restonic:
2" Deep Tack & Jump Quilted Cover with Marvelous Middle Construction
1" Gel-Infused TempaFoam in Quilt
1" Comfort Soft Foam in Quilt
1" Exclusive Tri-Zone, Comfort Soft Posture Foam
Heavy Duty Insulator Pad
420 Coil (Queen), Foam Encased Tempered, Lower Gauge Bonnell Innerspring
(upper layers reversed on second side)

Are the foam layers in the quilt in addition to the 2" cover, or is 2" the total depth?

Symbol Stafford
Tac & Jump Quilting
High Loft FR Fiber
1 1/2" Quilt Foam
1/2" High Density GEL Foam Center 1/3 Lumbar Pad
2" Extra Firm Convoluted Foam
Insulator Pad
1" Support Foam
Insulator Pad
Foam Encased 630XT Superlastic Continuous Coils
(upper levels reversed on side 2)

Bed Boss Hybrid:
Silk-Blended Fabric Cover with Poly-Satin Trim
1" Heat-Dissipating, Bamboo-Infused Higher-Density Foam in Cover
2" Traditional Memory Foam
2" UltraCore HD Memory Foam
6.5" Individually-Wrapped Pocket Coil Inner Spring Unit
2" Higher-Resliency Base Foam

I didn't get specific densities for the foams, but Bed Boss did give me a range of 2.8-4.7 for the foams they use in all of their models. Is it reasonable to use the lower end of the range for polyfoam and the upper end for memory foam? If so,the downside of this mattress is the lack of added support in the middle.
13 Aug 2016 14:15
  • UnderSlept
  • UnderSlept's Avatar
Hello again all,

I just wanted to report back on my experience purchasing a new King-sized OSO mattress from ososleep.com. Thank you, Phoenix, for your advice. It gave me the confidence to go ahead and try out our third 'simplified choice' mattress this year. It looks like this one will be the "keeper". To anyone considering this mattress, we have had a very positive view of it so far, I will share a little about my experience with it. Obviously, everyone is unique, and if I have learned anything from this site at all, I ought to (and will) avoid a blanket recommendation. But I am certainly quite impressed.

As for me, I am about 195 pounds, but am a reasonably athletic 6'2" 50 yr. old with very broad shoulders. Within the last year, I came down with frozen shoulder syndrome (left shoulder), which Google will corroborate is a real thing! As a [mostly] side sleeper on my left side, I had to quickly adapt to sleeping on my right. When I started to perceive pain in that shoulder, I was forced to learn to sleep on my back. This combination of things left me with much lower quality sleep, as I woke up many times throughout the night. Increased snoring from me also lowered the quality of my wife's sleep as well. By the way, she is a light 130 pounder who seems to be able to sleep on any mattress without significant problems.

Some time after starting physical therapy, we made the connection that we needed a new bed. I still harbor the suspicion that sleeping on our 25-year-old Restonic with the Marvelous Middle caused my affliction. My doctor said that its cause in my case was idiopathic. This means 'we don't know' what causes 'frozen shoulder'. "Doctor, I think that it could have been caused by my bed I hadn't realized was too worn out, and gradually injuring my shoulder." "No," he nonchalantly said, "that is not the case." End of discussion. Sigh!

I won't go into discussion here of the first two 'simplified mattresses' we purchased other than to say that it was thankfully a relatively easy process to order, receive, set up, try out, return, and be refunded for each. Storage was a bit more difficult, especially for a King-sized bed, which we decided to upgrade to when we purchased our first new mattress. To explain, when #1 didn't work, we had to store it elsewhere in the house after #2 arrived, and until the first could be picked up for donation. Then this process was repeated again a few months later. I guess it would have been easier to leave the new mattress boxed until the previous was picked up. But I admittedly lack patience with the delivery of a brand new mattress hot off the UPS truck! Besides, the free trial clock starts ticking on arrival day. The bigger frustration, though, was when we realized the new mattress wasn't working, and thus we had to begin the whole research and decision process again. But home trial sure is a heck of a lot better than a 5 minute or even 5 hour trial in a mattress store. (At least, for me.) Anyway, fast forward to #3...

The OSO mattress came compressed in a small box. Yada, yada, yada. As mattress attempt #3, we were no longer impressed by compressions. [Although the whole mattress-trial process still seemed somewhat exciting to me, I suspect that my dear wife was beginning to be annoyed with it.] But the OSO did arrive the same week that we ordered it, despite the website saying 7-10 business days. So that was quite nice. This could have been potentially frustrating if I hadn't been proactive about tracking it. And it seemed fully expanded within minutes of unboxing, without any hint of off-gassing. This was the first mattress of the 3 that was a zoned mattress, with latex 'springs' under the shoulder/back region of the bed. We liked at once the soft cover and very soft latex layer on the top, with no memory foam. And we immediately put in into the "soft" configuration, rather than the firm. Despite its softness, it seemed very supportive as well.

For me, the first night was pretty amazing! I slept for many hours, until I was awakened by a dream. And then I fell back asleep again, until I woke up dreaming once again, 8 or 9 hours after first going to bed. This was the first time I can remember dreaming in many, many months. The next week was rough, however. Each work day I woke up physically refreshed, but extremely drowsy, even feeling drugged, for quite some time. Each day, I went into work at least an hour or more later than usual Almost every day I woke up dreaming. But I was able to sleep on my side again without any problems, even on my frozen shoulder!

Now, more than a month later, the feeling of waking up drugged has mostly passed. I am still not quite used to regularly being awakened by my alarm clock. (In the past, I was usually awake before it went off, and was eager to get up and stop the pain.) I still have and remember my dreams almost every night. I thankfully do not seem to feel as drowsy most days, and my body usually feels extremely refreshed. My wife thinks that I have been making up for a lack of sleep for many months. I do realize that I am going to bed earlier, though, because it is so easy for me to fall asleep. I definitely look forward to going to sleep each night! I also believe that on many nights, I am asleep within two minutes of putting down my reading material..

As far as for trying the firm side of the bed, I have taken a couple naps on it just fine. But I have to sleep on my back on that side. I have now realized what significantly better sleep I get on the soft side of the bed sleeping on my side. So I am not sure that we will ever rotate it so that the firm side is at the head of the bed.

My wife sleeps well on the OSO also, but she slept well on all the other mattresses, too, even our very old Restonic. I couple of things she like a lot about it are its lower profile and light weight, which makes for easier mattress lifting when changing sheets, etc. And she undoubtedly appreciates considerably less snoring from me.

So, Phoenix, thanks again for a great forum full of helpful information. Thanks for helping me to understand what constitutes high quality materials for mattress durability. And thanks for teaching me to avoid certain high profile mattress brands, at least until the hopeful day that their creators reverse this clearly unethical manufacturing trend.

Thank you contributors, followers, and supporters of this forum for helping it to become so useful.

Thank you Reverie and OSO for making a high quality bed that will surely benefit many people.

Lastly, am I wrong, or in this Olympic season, wouldn't it be correct to recognize Phoenix for his long hours, days, and years of achievement in establishing and maintaining The Mattress Underground as the #1 most helpful mattress website in the world!? I certainly believe that a gold medal would be appropriate!
12 Aug 2016 11:37
  • Warder45
  • Warder45's Avatar
Unfortunately I can't find these mattresses online anywhere. They were next to the restonic in store but all those had restonic signs. The 5 latex mattresses all had Sleep Doctor signs with printed labels and prices. They had 3 with polyfoam cores and 2 total latex. I'm wondering if the store owner didn't order these from dreamfoam bedding and mark them as Sleep Doctor mattresses, tripling the price.

A little backstory, my GF just moved to DC for work and I let her have our newer foam bed. I'm now on my old college 'Westin' mattress (11 years old now) which is causing my lower back pain every morning and I'm not sleeping well on it. I'm looking for a replacement, but since it'll move to a guest room in 1-2 years; the decision I'm wrestling with is go with a dreamfoam bedding mattress or take advantage of the markdown on the full latex Denver mattress ones. If I go with DF, I was hoping that I could use this Celeste Firm to help with my 'Ask Chuck' number.

EDIT: Looking at it closer, it seems DF and the Sleep Doctor are different, at least in the covers. SD had a brown side with handles vs the DF seems to be all white. They both have the same top with bamboo stitched into it.
03 Jul 2016 22:36
  • UnderSlept
  • UnderSlept's Avatar
Hello again,

Thanks again, Phoenix, for the very quick reply.

Currently, I am suffering from a frozen shoulder (left). This is ironically my preferred side-sleeping shoulder. After diagnosis, while enduring physical therapy, I trained myself to sleep on my right side, and later on my back when my right side too began to be painful. This pain was no doubt exacerbated by the daily use of a worn-out 25-year old 2-sided Restonic 'Marvelous Middle' bed, perhaps flipped only twice in the last 20 years. (Karma?!)

So, unless you attempt to dissuade me, I am strongly leaning towards trying an OSO bed, ideally taking advantage of some of Reverie's fancy technology. My hope is that the soft side will permit me to resume my side-sleeping ways. (Side-sleeping is also my wife's ideal position.) And if, for whatever reason, she prefers the medium, we could always sleep opposite directions from each other on our King, with separate sheets and covers! (LOL)

If this doesn't work, we may then try the LUXI. We will go with the OSO first, mostly due to our dissatisfaction with memory foam in general (included in a small amount in the LUXI). This concern is both from disliking the 'quicksand' effect as well as potential harmful off-gassing concerns. But heck, a 1000-night trial. Crazy! That's almost 3 years! (As long as LUXI will still be around then...)

Again, thanks for your help. Your time commitment to this forum is obviously quite significant!
21 Jun 2016 17:50
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi AnnB,

I am in Virginia Beach, VA 23456


Subject to confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list you wish to deal with is completely transparent about the materials and components in their mattresses (see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here which I also linked in my previous reply ... the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the Virginia Beach, VA area are listed in post #2 here .

I tested many ( probably too many) beds during my store excursions.
The two models I found the most comfortable were the tempupedic cool breeze luxe
(very comfortable) and the restonic nirvana talalay latex but both were pricey. I'm wondering if based on the all the reviews and research you have done you could recommend comparable more affordable model.


While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... I don't make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn't a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don't normally try to "match" another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to "match" or "approximate" another one in terms of firmness or "feel" and PPP and/or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the "averages" of a larger group of people that have compared them (different people may have very different opinions about how two mattresses compare) ... the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they "feel" or in terms of firmness or PPP (regardless of anyone else's opinions of how they compare which may be different from your own) would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.

Having said that ... if you are researching online memory foam mattresses the mattress shopping tutorial includes a link to a list of some of the better online memory foam options I'm aware of (in the optional online step) and several of them make good quality mattresses that are designed and described to be reasonable approximations of many of the Tempurpedic mattresses (including the Cloud Luxe Breeze) and several of the other retailers or manufacturers that are on the list that don't specifically describe their mattresses as being similar to one of the Tempurpedic models would normally be able to give you more information about which of their mattress would be the closest approximation to the Tempurpedic Cloud Luxe Breeze as well.

I don't know the specifics of all the layers in the Restonic Nirvana Talalay latex mattress for sure but there is some information about it in posts #12 and #13 here . I would make sure that the specs that are listed are correct and that the mattress is really 11" thick so you can be confident that there are no "missing layers" of lower quality materials. Even then though it would be unlikely that you would find another mattress that is specifically designed to "approximate" that specific mattress or find a mattress that has the exact same layers with the same thicknesses and firmness levels with a similar cover.

If you are considering latex mattresses then the mattress shopping tutorial includes a link to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online (in the optional online step) and many of them sell latex and latex hybrid mattresses that use different types and blends of latex that have a wide range of different designs, options, features, return and exchange policies, and prices that would be well worth considering and if you provide them with the information about the specs of the Nirvana they may be able to give you some guidance about which of their mattresses (if any) would be the closest approximation.

As you probably discovered in your testing ... latex and memory foam are very different materials with very different properties but the choice between them is more of a preference and budget choice than a "better/worse" choice. There is more about some of the differences between memory foam and latex in post #2 here but the best way to know which type of materials or mattresses you tend to prefer in general would be based on your own careful testing and/or personal experience with each material in a range of different firmness levels.

I looked at Brooklyn beds which has talalay latex, over Dunlop latex over HD poly foam and am wondering what are the weak links.


The Brooklyn Bedding BestMattressEver doesn't have any lower quality materials or weak links that would compromise the durability or useful life of the mattress for any weight range. There is also more about the pros and cons of a latex/polyfoam hybrid (like the BME) and an all latex mattress (like the Nirvana) in post #2 here .

I know you mention price has no baring on quality and durability but find it hard to believe that $500 mattress could compare to $4200 or $2000 mattress , respective prices of the two I mentioned earlier.


There are certainly many people that have difficulty believing this until they actually find out the type and quality of the materials in some of the more costly mattresses they may have been considering. While a more costly mattress may contain more costly materials overall ... it may also contain some lower quality and less durable materials that would be a weak link in the mattress.

Again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else or whether it will be a good "match" in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress but outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so again I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase regardless of the price range.

There are many very costly mattresses in the industry that include some good quality and more costly materials which can "bump up" the price but that also include some lower quality and less durable materials in the mix that would be a weak link in the mattress and which I would avoid completely.

Phoenix
21 Jun 2016 16:16
  • AnnB
  • AnnB's Avatar
Thanks for your reply.
I am in Virginia Beach, VA 23456
I tested many ( probably too many) beds during my store excursions.
The two models I found the most comfortable were the tempupedic cool breeze luxe
(very comfortable) and the restonic nirvana talalay latex but both were pricey. I'm wondering if based on the all the reviews and research you have done you could recommend comparable more affordable model.
I looked at Brooklyn beds which has talalay latex, over Dunlop latex over HD poly foam and am wondering what are the weak links. I know you mention price has no baring on quality and durability but find it hard to believe that $500 mattress could compare to $4200 or $2000 mattress , respective prices of the two I mentioned earlier.
My budget is up to $1200 twin XL mattress. My husband have very different comfort and posture needs so we're doing a split king with adjustable base d/t he snores and I have reflux. We are both under 200 lb ( I saw you cautions for> 200 lbs on some of your mattress comparisons)

Thanks for your time,
Ann B
04 Apr 2016 20:31
  • HariS
  • HariS's Avatar
Hey Phoenix,

So after laying on a bunch of different mattresses in store, I think I want to get a hybrid mattress, They feel a bit more supportive and I enjoy just a little bit of that sinking in feeling which i get from the foam top above the coils.

I got a chance to meet Greg from Capitol Bedding (he said I can say his name on this post), and I learned a lot about capitol bedding as a company, and I decided that I am going to get a bed from them. I still like the Restonic, but based on reading this forum and your replies, doesn't look like I should get a mattress without having a clear definition of what is in the mattress.

Wanted to get your thoughts on the quality of the two hybrid mattresses from Capitol Bedding,

Enchantment

Miliken FR Shield (Not sure what that is but looks like a protective covering)
1" layer of Quiltflex foam (Not sure the density, but I can always ask)
1" layer of Gel Foam (Not sure the density, but I can always ask)
2.25" of 1.4lb convoluted foam
1" of 2.5lb foam
1080 pocket coils; 15.5 gage wire; 6.5 density foam encasement
1.25" 5.5lb base foam


Emerald Pillow Plush

Miliken FR Barrier
1" layer of gel foam
1" layer of 1.5lb foam
1.5" of 1.8lb convoluted foam
1" of 1.8lb latex foam
864 pocket coils; Doesn't say gage but im assuming 15.5 based on the Enchantment; high density foam encased. doesn't say density but i'm assuming similar to enchantment
1.25" of High Density foam (Again doesn't say density unfortunately)
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint 1: capitolbedding.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Enchantment-FE.pdf| Archived Footprint 2: capitolbedding.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/Emerald-Pillow-Plush.pdf

Just FYI, Capitol Bedding said that the density of the foam will be the first two numbers of the foam listed in the Spec Sheet. Also, all their memory foam is 4lb (I assume she is referring to the gel foam listed in the spec sheet).

So wanted to get your thoughts on the quality of materials in these two mattresses if that is okay.


After laying on these mattresses, I personally liked Enchantment better, mainly because it had a really nice plush feel compared to the emerald. My girlfriend liked the emerald more, which was surprising because she is a side sleeper. I guess i don't really see a problem with getting a more plushier mattress. I'm not sure if you have any thoughts on this. I have been sleeping more and more on my back than on my stomach.

Thanks for all the help!
31 Mar 2016 18:34
  • HariS
  • HariS's Avatar
Hey Phoenix,

I got a few more details on the Restonic mattress from the salesman at Sleep Doctor and from this link:
www.beds.org/mattress/restonic-comfortcare-signature-collection.php

The salesman only gave me approximate thickness's, but here is what he said:


-3-4" of 1.6lb/ft^3 density Tempagel
-1..7 lb/ft^3 comfort layer of foam (He said this was 0.25" thick, but that seemed a little thin to me)
-The remaining thickness is coils (860 coils) with the middle third having higher density wire and being 13 gauge, whereas near the head and feet, the gauge of the wire is 14 gauge.

Do you have any thoughts on the quality of the materials? I forgot to mention previously, I am 5'8", 175lbs. I have for most of my life slept on my stomach, but lately been trying to sleep more on my back.

He did say for $99 i get the Protect-A-Bed mattress protector. I went to their website, he didn't specify which one id get, but based on price and the way he was describing it (basically saying how the company will give you a voucher for the entire price of the mattress if a stain gets through the protector), i assume its the luxury protector.

Just wanted to get your thoughts on all this. Thanks
27 Mar 2016 15:12
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi HariS,

Restonic still hasn't emailed me back, and while I couldn't find anything on that specific mattress (Apparently, Restonic makes specific mattresses for every site, including Sleep Doctor). Here is what i found on the Restonic ComfortCare Signature series which seems to be made the same as the one i tried as described by the store salesman and the info card on the mattress:

15" overall thickness of mattress
4" of Tempagel Memory Foam (Made with gel infused memory foam and Outlast® Technology)
The remaining 11" of individually wrapped, foam encased coils (858 coils)
There is also a foam encased border

Unfortunately at this point, I don't have too much more information to provide with that mattress. I have emailed them and am hoping the get more information, and I will post as necessary.


Unfortunately the specs you listed don't contain any meaningful information that would make it possible to make any meaningful comments about the quality or durability of the materials. I would also guess that the coils aren't 11" thick so there are probably some additional layers that are missing in the description. If you can find out the information listed here and post it on the forum I'd be happy to let you know if there are any lower quality materials or weak links that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress. In many cases you may be more successful in finding out the information that you need from your retailer (who should be the ones providing this information to their customers anyway) instead of directly through Restonic because there are many wholesale manufacturers that don't provide this information directly to consumers and will only provide it to their retailers through their reps.

If for any reason they are either unwilling or unable to provide the information you would need to make an informed choice and to make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses I would pass the mattress by because buying a mattress where you don't know the quality and durability of the materials inside it would be a very risky purchase.

As for the Capitol Bedding Pure Essence Plush here are the specs I was able to find:

3" of gel memory foam (Made by FutureFoam and has a density of 4lb/ft^3)
2" of transition foam (density of 1.8 lbs/ft^3
6" of 1.8 lbs/ft^3 foam (20lb compression)
It also has 3" of foam side rails for support
All that is covered by a bamboo elas cover


These are all good quality materials that meet the minimum guidelines I would suggest for people that are in more "average" weight ranges although I would be cautious with this mattress for those that are in higher weight ranges (mid 200's or higher). If you have confirmed that it's a good "match" for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP and that it compares well to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are important to you then it would certainly be well worth considering.

A few other questions I have, is there any difference between buying the mattress protector in store vs on amazon? The salesman at sleep doctor said the mattress protector is $99 and looking on Amazon, I can get ones for much cheaper and they all say 10 year warranty. So while I think $99 is a lot for a mattress protector, I'm not sure if it offers and more advantage than a $30 one on amazon.


I don't know the specifics of the protectors you are looking at so I really can't make any comments about them but there is more about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors and some examples of each of them in post #89 here .

Finally, since I am a very indecisive person :), I have read a lot about Helix Sleep and Brooklyn Beddings best mattress ever on this website and others, and I am not sure how they compare in terms of quality/value to the ones I have listed above. But I am always wary of buying a mattress online, since I cant sleep on it until it arrives, but those two mattresses specifically seem to be highly rated and are cheaper than the two I have found in stores. Not sure how much you can comment on those, but figured it was worth a shot :)


There is more about the 3 most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

While nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress ... outside of PPP (which is the most important part of the "value" of a mattress purchase), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new). There is more about the type and quality of the materials in the Helix and the BestMattressEver along with many of the other simplified choice mattresses in post #2 here in the simplified choice topic. Post #1 in the same topic would be well worth reading as well.

Both of them have great return/refund policies so you can try the mattress in your bedroom instead of testing it in a showroom with little risk outside of the time you spend sleeping on it or returning it should that become necessary.

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Phoenix
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