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Today 14:13
  • Basilio
  • Basilio's Avatar
Hi al,

Shopping for male, twenties, 170 pounds. Likes ultra firm and I want organic or at least a non-toxic mattress. Hybrid preferred, as he prefers coils.

As a mattress is unique to the sleeper using it, based on their stats (height, BMI, sleeping position(s) and any underlying health issues) and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) it’s also important to have some idea of what you are looking for when you embark on the mattress buying journey. You have provided a couple of his stats, and what you have ruled out – you know he likes ultra firm, organic, hybrid, coils. The good news is you have a lot of choices. I would suggest taking a look at our mattress shopping tutorial as well as the mattress specifications you need to know and the mattress durability guidelines will give you an idea of the longevity of specific materials.

The best way to test a new mattress in person; if that’s not possible, you want to make sure that the mattress company has a 100 night trial or similar, as it can take a while to ‘break in’ a mattress to see if it’s a good fit.
You should avoid any manufacturer that is not transparent on the materials and specifications of their components,
As this could hide inexpensive materials or construction.

If you are considering online ordering, many of the Trusted Members of the site have organic latex hybrid mattresses with firm comfort options, such as Arizona SleepEZ Factory , Luma Sleep and also Shovlin Mattress Factory who are all fully committed to transparency and have excellent customer service.

I wish you success on your mattress search,

Today 10:54
  • Laichee
  • Laichee's Avatar

Not sure what's causing you to shift from your side to your stomach, but stomach sleeping (also called the prone position) requires a firm mattress to keep your spine in proper alignment and prevent hammocking. Middle or lower back pain after sleeping on your stomach which then typically dissipates in a couple of hours is due to a mattress which lacks sufficient support or has too soft or thick of a comfort layer which allows too much sinkage.

- Bill

Hi Bill,

Thanks for your response. The problem is I start with sleeping on my side and find myself on my face in the morning so I'm not sure how much the back pain is caused by the side sleeping portion of my sleep versus the stomach sleeping. You are indeed correct that the pain dissipates over the course of the hours after waking up.

A mattress saleslady told me it's likely due to the mattress being too firm in my side sleeping position and my body's trying to relieve pressure by moving to my belly. Is there an objective test to determine if I needed a firmer or softer mattress/does middle/lower back pain ALWAYS signify that a firmer mattress is required? I subjectively felt more pain on the firmer mattresses (IKEA HAUGESUND) over my current (casper nova hybrid.)
Today 05:44
  • Sweet Dreams
  • Sweet Dreams's Avatar
Not sure what's causing you to shift from your side to your stomach, but stomach sleeping (also called the prone position) requires a firm mattress to keep your spine in proper alignment and prevent hammocking. Middle or lower back pain after sleeping on your stomach which then typically dissipates in a couple of hours is due to a mattress which lacks sufficient support or has too soft or thick of a comfort layer which allows too much sinkage.

- Bill
Today 05:32
  • Laichee
  • Laichee's Avatar
After trying the IKEA Haugesund, Douglas mattress, and now the Casper Nova Hybrid, I've found that I'm still waking up on my stomach despite predominantly being a side sleeper my whole life. The stomach sleeping is accompanied by mid or lower back soreness upon waking - wondering if anyone knows if this is more likely due to the mattress being too firm or being too soft?

I've never had this happen before and am especially confused due to the Casper Nova Hybrid supposedly being one of the softest mattresses I've tried in store.
Today 05:23
  • Sweet Dreams
  • Sweet Dreams's Avatar
I've never heard of TempFlow but their use of 5 PCF memory foam is a good sign of quality. Regarding the TP Luxe Adapt Firm if you suspect that it's allowing you to sink in too deeply it likely is... it only gets softer with use and tends to allow gradually deeper sinkage overnight. I tried it myself and when brand new it felt great with excellent pressure relief, but in a couple of months as it broke in I was sinking in too deeply and had bad lower back pain. Regarding the Aireloom you liked it is a unique design and feel, and that $7K price is I believe its "high retail" price. It should be available at closer to half that price when offered on sale or through negotiation. Macy's sells Aireloom and often has sales on them at about half of the inflated "retail price".

Good luck and regards,

- Bill
Today 00:02
  • equalme
  • equalme's Avatar
Well you were right lol, the SleepEZ setup is firmer than my old mattress, and I'm not sure if I like that. I ended up with soft Talalay / Medium Dunlop / firm Dunlop. It is comfortable when sleeping on my back, but it is wrecking my shoulders when side sleeping. I feel like my shoulder is not able to sink in enough? I wake up throughout the night because the arm I am laying on goes numb.
Yesterday 15:40
  • najc33
  • najc33's Avatar
Hi Nikki. Thanks for your welcome and your response!

I'm 5'11, 175 lbs male,. I've got a bit of a "bony" build. I'm a combination of a side sleeper/back sleeper. I really like the option of being able to sleep on both side and back, but that has presented difficulties in terms of mattress satisfaction. I need the softness for sleeping on my side, but the margin of error for also being able to sleep on my back seems slim. If it's too soft, I wake up stiff and twisted like a pretzel. On a firm mattress, I have a hard time falling asleep.and staying asleep. That's a far more miserable experience (and one I'd like to avoid) then my softer mattress experience.

As for your question about the layers: I tried a casper wave mattress once and liked it, so I thought I might try to imitate it. That mattress has 1.5 layer of latex over 1.5 of memory foam(with a high resiliency foam below that, which I could also throw in there instead of 3 inches of memory foam).

Additionally, I tend to sleep deeply on memory foam. I tried a latex topper once, and it was a little firm for me (though I've never tried talalay latex), so I'm hesitant to go overboard with the latex. I would be concerned about losing the pressure relief that my body seems to require to fall asleep if I moved away from foam. I feel like the latex may mitigate some of the postural/alignment concerns, though, so I definitely would like to integrate it into this DIY somehow. That's why the DIY is appealing in the first place, I can mess around with it and try to adjust as needed, as opposed to buying and having to return (yet another) mattress.
Yesterday 13:47
  • blackhalo
  • blackhalo's Avatar
I have a Naturepedic 5.5-6inch Plush Talalay pillow. I love the texture so much but it just compresses down to nothing.
If I get the Luma King I can go up to 7 inches. I really don't want a King size and I'm pretty sure that it won't matter. I think the texture is just too soft that if 6 inches compresses that much 7 won't be enough either and I just need a denser pillow.
I'd appreciate hearing from someone who has the Luma pillow, or has even tried other plush density pillows to confirm.
Yesterday 13:36
  • csufman
  • csufman's Avatar
I appreciate the follow-up. The setup my wife and I liked best was the Naturepedic Halcyon Arcadia with soft base coils, soft micro coils and soft dunlop topper. I will be reaching out to Ken for his opinion but glad to hear your setup is working for you as it gives me confidence I am on the right track.
Yesterday 12:43
  • DenverM
  • DenverM's Avatar

How is your setup working for you? I am a similar build (5'11 - 195lbs with broad shoulders) and thinking about a DIY route. I was looking at the 8" Bolsa coils, then micro coils, then a 3" soft Talalay topper.

Thanks for pinging so that I came back to give an update. Been working out really well. Feels great and no issues with sleep. I was hesitant to fully get away from coils but I think after doing this build I would be fine fully losing coils. Replacing the bottom 8" coils with a thinner section of firm latex.

You'll need something as a transition between the soft top and the coils though, otherwise a shoulder or something could hit the firm boundary. I think the micro coils are very 'soft' feeling but I can't remember, might give Ken a call on that if they would work like a transition.
Yesterday 11:59
  • NikkiTMU
  • NikkiTMU's Avatar
Hi Nick,

Welcome to our Mattress Forum :)

I plan on trying to just have fun with this project, above all.

This is a great approach to a DIY! I think your spirit of adventure will prove successful in creating your best custom fit.

I was thinking of getting 1 layer of memory foam, and 1 layer of talalay latex. If I put the latex on top of the memory foam, would that work? I was thinking 1 inch of latex on top of 3 of memory foam. Does anybody think I would need some kind of firmer "transition" layer in between the memory foam layer and the pocketed coils??

Yes, this would work. Why do you want to layer them that way, any particular thought process? (I've seen people do memory foam atop latex and vice versa, but I'm always interested to know what drives a person to make the decision). 1" of latex might be kind of hard to find, but not impossible! A softer 2" layer atop a medium/firmer 2" memory foam layer may be easier to find. I don't know your height/weight/sleeping position(s) so I couldn't say for sure if 4" would be enough for you in particular, but it is generally enough for most people.

Yesterday 11:59
  • csufman
  • csufman's Avatar
How is your setup working for you? I am a similar build (5'11 - 195lbs with broad shoulders) and thinking about a DIY route. I was looking at the 8" Bolsa coils, then micro coils, then a 3" soft Talalay topper.
Yesterday 11:56
  • BillyIdol
  • BillyIdol's Avatar
On Saturday, I went to a wedding in Santa Maria, and as I was driving down the 101 freeway at midnight, I see a sign that says “TempFlow Mattresses”. I noted that in my head. I researched it the next day.

Apparently, TempFlow is very well regarded in the mattress world. I guess they are mimicing what Tempurpedic is doing except they are using 5 pound memory foam (denser) and they have air ventilation holes for more cooling. I was really hell bent on getting the Tempurpedic LuxeAdapt Firm, but Im going hold off til I visit TempFlow. Im highly intrigued.

On Sunday, I went to Ortho mattress. The lady there said Tempur has no side support and is not durable and dense the original Tempurpedic mattresses. From what Ive read on TMU, this is true. Im 5ft 11in, 225 pounds. Back sleeper. Have Tempurpedic Deluxe (20 years old) and have back pain now. The support is gone.

I was about to buy Luxe Adapt Firm, but it is softer than you might think!!! Im worried that the crater that it has around my butt might be too deep. Im wondering if that will support my back. On a lark, I tried Aireloom Chester Luxetop Firm (Aireloom M1). The back support felt a bit more supportive. The top was soft for side sleeping too. Buy $7k!!! Damn!!!

Any exoerience with TempFlow or Aireloom?

Yesterday 10:14
  • MrKool
  • MrKool's Avatar
wow 10k for the mattress with coils? I thought Latex was supposed to be the more expensive one.
Yesterday 08:52
  • csufman
  • csufman's Avatar
We are in a similar spot as you are. We are looking at the Halcyon Arcadia with their soft coils, soft microcoils and soft dunlop topper. I am a hot sleeper and felt the cover on the Arcadia felt cooler than the EOS. The other mattress we are looking at is the European Sleep Works Nordic II HDM. We did not compare these two on the same day but will be going back (its a 4 hour drive from us). Like you we like very soft/plush beds and these two have been the softest we have felt. The Nordic II is $3,200 so its considerably less than the Arcadia (which is on sale this week) so not sure we can justify the cost of the Arcadia...although feel wise may have been the best.

I was also looking into replicating the feel with a DIY build using an 8" pocket coil base, micro pocketed coil comfort layer and a 3" Talalay plush topper. Just not sure we can recreate the feel of the Arcadia zipper cover...but I am around $1,000 for the components without the cover so far. I put links to the components below just not sure how close this will feel to the two.

Base Coils

Micro Pocketed Coils

Talalay Topper
Yesterday 08:34
  • MrKool
  • MrKool's Avatar
Is there an update to this list? I am in VA and looking at the list but as the post is from 2011 lots of things have changed etc. so trying to see if any one has any recommendations for latex mattresses in DMV area?
Yesterday 19:43
  • alice289
  • alice289's Avatar
Hello, my partner and I are looking for a new King bed that provides good support for side sleeping. We found that the beds at Naturepedic were comfortable, but need help determining if it'll be a good bed for us long term. We currently have a Winkbed Soft that started sagging around the center / hip area and it's only 4 years old, so we're worried about durability in our next mattress.

Some background - My partner (250 lbs 6'7) and I (120 lbs 5'7) both have broader shoulders than hips and find that soft beds are more accommodating for our shoulders when sleeping on our side. My partner is primarily a side sleeper while I am a back and side sleeper, though sometimes end up waking up on my stomach.

These are the 2 mattress we are considering from Naturepedic - EOS pillowtop and Halcyon Arcadia (linked below), both in the softest version. There's a big price difference and we're not sure why. The only real difference I see is that the EOS is 8 inch coils vs 6 inch coils for Arcadia, while both have 6 inches of latex. In person, we did feel that the Arcadia was more comfortable, though on both beds, our shoulders stay higher up than our hips so our spine isn't perfectly straight. Not sure if it's possible to get a straight spine given that our shoulders are broader than our hips? Would you recommend either of these beds, and is it worth it to pay up for the Arcadia? Any other bed you'd recommend?

We also considered FloBeds because of their zoned support and reading good things about it on Mattress Underground, but there's no showrooms with FloBeds near us, and we generally like the feeling of hybrid beds more. Do you think zoned support is important in our case?

Yesterday 18:35
  • SherryBin309
  • SherryBin309's Avatar
I am also lIghtweight, but somewhat higher BMI than you, so understand it can be difficult to find materials that feel soft enough. Since a topper on the floor is working better than some mattresses you’ve tried, maybe a topper, or combination or a couple of soft toppers on almost any inexpensive mattress is worth exploring. I had some success with 15 ILD Talalay latex for a while. Also used a LaNoodle topper from Cozypure over that at times, and a wool topper at other times. The LaNoodle felt great but needed to be massaged or fluffed regularly to maintain its softness. Currently we have the convoluted Talalay latex topper from Flobeds and it is working pretty well, but I’m thinking I’ll want either a very thin memory foam or maybe wool layer over it for more pressure relief. Something else that caught my eye is the shredded latex topper sold by Flobeds. If you need something softer than straight memory foam or plush latex, the shredded, noodled and convoluted foams are one way to get there. Good luck in your search.
26 Jun 2022 13:17
  • Millalite
  • Millalite's Avatar
Hi there, sorry in advance if I went about this wrong. I'm not much of a forum user. I am in need of a new mattress.

About me:
5' 10"
-Back Sleeper 95%, side sleep the other 5%
-I prefer a firm mattress because it feels good on my back. I have degenerative disc disease so support is great. My old one is all memory foam with a cooling topper. It worked well for about 4 years and is just hurting my back really bad.
-If possible, I would prefer a nice hybrid mattress but with being able to change/swap the top if I want to
-I tend to be a hot sleeper which is why I had to buy that cooling topper on my memory foam
- My budget is around 1300$
-lastly, I love quality. I like my purchases to last a long time or at least be honored with a great warranty

I did go to the store and lay on them. Like always, they all feel nice because they are new. They are all big name brands that sacrifice quality like Serta, Beauty rest, tempurpedic, etc
26 Jun 2022 11:53
  • NTSB22
  • NTSB22's Avatar
I purchased an earlier version on this bed which was called the SAM (self adjusting mattress) bed in 2005.. Seventeen years later, I am looking for a new mattress, so the bed purchased back then lasted a very long time. I believe the newer and older versions use the same self-adjusting air technology which is somewhat different than the air bed made by Sleep Number (it does not inflate or deflate for firmness). Initially, I could not find their website; they are made by WCW manufacturing that specializes in medical grade beds for hospitals. This was one of the best consumer purchases I’ve made. The bed slept well for just under 17 years. My only hesitation is that my first purchase had White glove delivery and I am not sure if that is true any longer. Otherwise, I recommend the bed and urge you to call for specifics.
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