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Searched for: micomfort
02 Sep 2015 13:28
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi RJ29,

I've gone through the posts you indicated, and QSS seems to be the place worth checking out nearby. I'm interested if any forum members might have reactions as to how the Quality Sleep Shop mi Comfort foam and latex mattresses compare to other combination beds? I know it's a subjective measure, and that PPP are the most important aspects to consider (and I will when I go check out the bed) -- but would these be considered soft/ med/ or firm -- or can they be customized?


That's probably too broad a question for anyone to really answer ("other combination beds" would include hundreds to thousands of mattresses that would be very different from each other) but there is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" and unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same materials, components, and design (which would be very unlikely) then there really isn't a way to match one mattress to another one based on the specifications of the mattress.

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don't normally try to "match" another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so it's also unlikely that you will find another mattress that is specifically designed to "match" or "approximate" one of the mattresses you mentioned in terms so the only way to know how two mattresses compare for you in terms of how it "feels" or in terms of firmness or PPP would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.

There are also no "standard" definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like "medium" for someone else or even "soft" for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they "rate" a mattress as well (see post #15 here ) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness as well and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

There is also some good information about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).

Forum searches on MiComfort and on Alexander and on BestMattressEver (you can just click the links) will also bring up more comments and feedback about each of them.

Phoenix
24 Oct 2014 13:02
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi plasticpitchfork,

I am finding it hard to reconcile your guidelines on weak links and your suggesting I am too fixed on specs. I am really just trying to identify weak links and decide whether or not certain aspects are an acceptable trade-off.


There is more about the most important parts of a mattress purchase in post #13 here . PPP is always the first priority and quality specs won't tell you anything about whether a mattress is a good match for you and there is little value in purchasing a mattress with great specs if it's not a good match for you in terms of PPP.

The tutorial post also includes this comment ...

There is a great deal of information in this post and the posts and information it links to and I would encourage you to read it like you would a good book rather than "study" it like you would a textbook. Too much technical information that you "study" in too much detail can quickly lead to "information overwhelm" and "paralysis by analysis" and too little information can lead to a blind purchase and buying a mattress that is either low quality for your budget range or poor value. Both can lead to poor choices.

I would start with reading the complete tutorial itself to get a general sense of the steps involved and then going back and reading the linked pages that it also includes. The goal is not to turn you into an "expert" but to provide you with enough basic information that you can recognize when you are dealing with an expert who already knows what you would otherwise need to learn and can provide you with the information you need to make an informed decision and has your long term best interests at heart. There is little point in learning what they have taken years to learn and already know and are happy to share with you.


Mattresses are not like speakers where specs about the low end response can be "translated" into a meaningful indication of how it may sound for someone that has a trained ear and is knowledgeable about what all the specs of a good speaker can mean in "real life". I also wouldn't buy a speaker based on the low end response alone because many other specs such as the crossover points and the balance of the sound across the entire frequency range (and many other speaker specs) will also have a significant effect on how the speaker sounds and a speaker with a great low end response may also sound poorly. In effect you are trying to simplify something and find a "formula" that is much more complex than you may realize and IMO you are overemphasizing specs at the expense of what you will feel on a mattress and how well you may sleep on it (which you can't tell from specs). At the end of the day what you can hear from a speaker will be more important than the specs as well and you can't "feel" the quality specs of a mattress because they are an indication of durability ... not PPP.

There are also too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved to use specs (either yours or a mattress) or theory at a distance to choose a mattress that is the best "match" for you (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

More specific to this process; would you consider, in your experience the 1.5lb foam in some of the cheaper(and some not so cheaper) support layers in Dreamfoam beds to be a weak link? Or a decent durability/price trade off? IDK what they are using yet, since I have not called, but if it was(1.5), under 2.5" 3lb or 3" of 4lb.? 8" thickness, maybe 6".


You can see the quality guidelines I would suggest in post #4 here and there is much more detail yet about all the variables that can affect durability and the useful life of a mattress in post #4 here . The "best" place to use lower quality and cost materials that will have the least effect on durability are in the deeper layers of a mattress that are less subject to the mechanical stresses of compression and will have the least effect on the durability of the mattress. If you are in a higher weight range then a 1.5 lb support layer would have more effect on durability than it would if you have a lighter body type and don't compress the support layer as much so whether a 1.5 lb support layer would be a weak link would depend on the type and thickness of the materials above it and on the body type and sleeping style of the person on the mattress. If you are in a lower budget range that doesn't allow for the use of the highest quality of materials from top to bottom then the deeper layers are the best place to compromise for the sake of cost and for most people, 1.5 lb polyfoam would be fine. The upper layers are the place where I would avoid compromising the quality of the materials because they will be the weakest link of the mattress.

I would suggest making your first priority PPP, your second priority making sure there are no obvious weak links in the mattress, and your final priority making good comparisons between your finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you ... in that order.

My thing with Quality Sleep was that of the designs they have listed, with exception of "MiComfort - Best?" which I assume is a custom mattress, most of them were very unfamiliar compared to what most others' offer, such as "Memory foam blended latex." Most/all of them were non-encased coils, and very little memory foam offered, and only in higher priced beds. They also don't list mattress only prices. I am sure they are mattress makers that just need to hire a web designer ;) Also the time and commitment and probably cost of a custom bed is probably not in the cards. I did like the lumbar zoned coils. Zoned beds in general are very attractive to me, kind of rare though.


Most of their mattresses aren't "custom" mattresses and can be tested "as is" on their showroom floor just like any other store. Their mattresses would also be better value for most people than most other similar mattresses. None of their mattresses (custom or otherwise) have any weak links relative to their budget range.

If I am missing a great online retailer with free returns in the 7-900$ range for Memory/latex hybrid please let me know!


The tutorial post includes several links to some of the better online choices I'm aware of and posts #3 and #4 here and post #4 here also include links to some of the better lower budget online options I'm aware of as well.

Phoenix
24 Oct 2014 05:24
  • plasticpitchfork
  • plasticpitchfork's Avatar

Overall ... the best approach is to have the numbers available for those who want them


This is what I meant. Maybe not so much in the marketing copy or description but on a "specs" tab. much the way say a pair of speakers would have them. They really say nothing about what the speakers will ultimately sound like, but gives me one means of comparison. Say, a speaker goes down to 75hz in the bass end, that tells me that the speakers will need a sub-woofer to reproduce bass under 75hz, but it doesn't tell me how well it will handle or if I will like the sound of the low end above 75hz.

I am finding it hard to reconcile your guidelines on weak links and your suggesting I am too fixed on specs. I am really just trying to identify weak links and decide whether or not certain aspects are an acceptable trade-off. I know you say to have a conversation with the manufacturer, but more times than not, aren't they are going to tell me that they picked the "best balance of materials for each mattress" they make. That is the general idea of what I have been getting. For reference; I have emailed and talked with BedinaBox, Casper, and Christeli, which is not very many, but is anyone going to tell me "we chose 1.5lb support foam because it's cheaper"?

More specific to this process; would you consider, in your experience the 1.5lb foam in some of the cheaper(and some not so cheaper) support layers in Dreamfoam beds to be a weak link? Or a decent durability/price trade off? IDK what they are using yet, since I have not called, but if it was(1.5), under 2.5" 3lb or 3" of 4lb.? 8" thickness, maybe 6".

My weak link in my whole process is that I don't want to go try out mattresses of similar type and drill a salesman for specific info just to walk out. For support this is my specific context. My thing comes down to; I am a back sleeper with about 25% side sleeping tendencies, 155 pounds, 5' 8" weight fluctuates from 150-175. In the past I have enjoyed memory foam mattresses, not enjoyed traditional S brand innersprings and not tried, and can't afford latex(exception Casper.)
I am really not too picky in general, the only problems I have had with any mattress has been lower back stress from being on my back on sagging/unsupportive mattresses, which have seemed to stem from foam bottoming out into a weak support layer/springs. This is why I think I need a firm mattress, but what I really need is a supportive mattress. Durability concerns are a direct result of increased price.

If I absolutely won't go to a factory place or a showroom just to test comparable mattresses, are there any areas of specs that I should prioritize, based on the above description? If I were to narrow it down by return policy, are there any factors you would consider more than others for best chance of not returning it?
Example:
Casper uses 7" 1.8lb foam base under only 3" of top layers contin. pour synth dunlop and 4lb memory foam(1.5/1.5").
Mattress X costs about the same and uses 5-7" 2.0lb base under 3" of 4lb, or maybe 2.5" of Gel or something along those lines.
Mattress Y costs about t he same and uses 5-7" of 1.5lb base and 3" inches of 4lb MF (maybe 3lb MF, if cheap.)

If Casper and X are the same price, is the difference between the 1.8 and 2.0 base a factor that I should even be considering, given that 1.8lb is at the low end of your weak link guidelines?
Should only take a chance on Y if it is lower in cost?
These are theoretically mattresses I can return for free or a reasonable cost.

I think in the large majority of cases most people would consider that Quality Sleep Shop would be a better quality/value choice but value is always relative to the specific mattresses you are comparing and the criteria of the specific person that is comparing them.


My thing with Quality Sleep was that of the designs they have listed, with exception of "MiComfort - Best?" which I assume is a custom mattress, most of them were very unfamiliar compared to what most others' offer, such as "Memory foam blended latex." Most/all of them were non-encased coils, and very little memory foam offered, and only in higher priced beds. They also don't list mattress only prices. I am sure they are mattress makers that just need to hire a web designer ;) Also the time and commitment and probably cost of a custom bed is probably not in the cards. I did like the lumbar zoned coils. Zoned beds in general are very attractive to me, kind of rare though.

This would be a viable option if the combination was a good match for you in terms of PPP, if it compared well to the other options you are considering, and and if you were comfortable with the uncertainty of buying a topper that you haven't tested in person on the specific mattress you are using it on


Yeah, I just thought it would be easier to customize on the cheap, and make it easy transport. Also if I don't like the topper I am only out $150. If I don't end up buying 3 different toppers before I find one, which I don't see happening. I'm not super crazy about this one.

... although you are putting more "value" on marketing than I would.


I am actually a bit put off my their slick marketing. But it got me at first, before I started intense research. I am putting value in others' susceptibility to the marketing. Kind of like "go to the site and see how awesome it is, I will sell you mine for half price only because I can't take it with me."

Thanks for this site and your help. I probably will keep any future posts in short specific questions or ideas. And probably then after I buy a mattress if I have any issues questions in regards to my experience. Do you agree that it is easier to make a firm mattress softer than a soft mattress firmer?

I will probably do one of these:
(in no order)
Casper - Gut tells me to due to return policy and novel design.
Tuft w/ locally bought or Costco online 4-5lb topper that I can return and order Dreamfoam's
Go to Quality Sleep this weekend
Go to Verlo this weekend
Christeli clearance (low likelyhood)
Dreamfoam's cheaper options after a call to them.
Novosbed - budget only allows 8-9/10 firmness, might need topper, so price is high but great return and HD memory foam/2lb
base.

If I am missing a great online retailer with free returns in the 7-900$ range for Memory/latex hybrid please let me know!
14 Feb 2014 18:06
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi potatopants,

We're hoping Tim will name the mattress with the separate comfort layer after us!


Hmmm ... the MiComfort - Potatopants (one step up from the MiComfort - Best) ... I'd vote for it :)

Phoenix
14 Feb 2014 10:55
  • potatopants
  • potatopants's Avatar
Hi there! On your advice we have been shopping at Quality Sleep Shop in La Grange. We are considering a variation of their MiComfort Best mattress, which has 11 inches of 2.8-lb poly foam base, 1 inch blended latex, 3 inches of 3.5-lb gel memory foam, and 1 inch blended latex on top.

First off, you've recommended 4-lb density of memory foam, but QSS said that 3.5 pounds is the best they can buy in the gel memory foam. Thoughts?

Second off, we're considering have them stitch the comfort layers (3 inches of memory foam sandwiched between an inch-thick layer of blended latex) SEPARATE from the poly base. This way we can rotate and flip the comfort layers in the hopes of extending the life of the mattress. What do you think of this idea?

Thanks for your thoughts.
16 Nov 2013 18:26
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi richk2,

The most important part of deciding whether a mattress is "bad" or "good" for YOU is testing it for PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). No matter what the cost of a mattress or it's design or even the quality of the materials ... if it isn't a good match for your body type and sleeping style then it would be "bad" for you even if it was "perfect" for someone else.

The next most important part of deciding whether a mattress is "bad" or "good" for YOU is looking at it's construction and making sure that it has no obvious weak links in terms of the quality and durability of the materials. Again ... no matter what the cost of a mattress or its design or suitability in terms of PPP ... if the materials are low quality or there is a weak link in the mattress that would result in the mattress softening or breaking down too quickly relative to the price you paid then it would also have little value to you. A mattress that you pay $500 that only lasts a few years may be good value but a mattress that costs $3000 that only lasts a few years probably wouldn't for most people no matter how good a match it may be initially in terms of PPP. Quality Sleep has staff that are "experts" in mattress materials and mattress design, have their customer's best interests at heart, and would give you good information about the relative durability of each of their mattresses so you can have a reasonable expectation of the useful life of each of their mattresses. If you post the specifics of each layer and component of the mattress in he forum (it's not on their site for the miComfort - Better) I'd certainly be happy to make some comments as well.

Other than testing the mattress for its suitability in terms of PPP and knowing the quality / durability of the construction and materials in the mattress so you (or better yet a knowledgeable retailer or manufacturer like quality sleep) can assess any potential weak links in the mattress ... then all the other parts of a mattress purchase and how they compare to your other "finalists" and the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you would be the best way to decide whether a mattress purchase is "good value" for you.

Some mattresses may be more costly because they use more materials or higher quality materials but this doesn't mean that the mattress would be more suitable or better value for you. Sometimes less is better and more materials (and the higher cost that goes with them) may mean a mattress that isn't as suitable for your specific needs and preferences even though it's a higher price. The price of a mattress is only one part of the value of a mattress purchase and may have little to do with whether the mattress is "better or worse" or the most suitable choice for you.

When you are dealing with a high quality manufacturer like Quality Sleep, you have the benefit of good guidance that comes from many years of knowledge and experience and you are dealing with a manufacturer competes well with the best in the country and that will put your own best interests and the word of mouth advertising that will generate above the profit they will earn on the sale of a mattress.

Phoenix
16 Nov 2013 14:49
  • richk2
  • richk2's Avatar
Went to Quality Sleep in the Chicago area. While not perfect, the mattress we found to be the most comfortable wasn't that expensive and didn't have very impressive specs compared to most of the specs people throw around on this site. Frankly, while I was prepared to pay more, we just didn't like the feel of some of their more expensive ones that were all latex or had thicker latex layers. I have tried to figure out what the thicknesses really mean reading the various posts but am totally confused. The mattress we are considering is their MiComfort better. Unless I am reading the specs wrong, it is 7 inch base with 1.5 inch gel memory and 1 inch blended latex cover. This doesn't seem like much. Does that mean the mattress won't be durable, won't be supportive, what does it mean???? What exactly is the "bad" part of buying a mattress with lesser specs. My wife and I are normal build, older, but no particular back or neck problems. We always had coil mattresses but our current one about five years old and fairly expensive is now lumpy and uncomfortable. Probably stupid question but would appreciate it if someone could help me out with whether this "cheaper" mattress we are looking at is bad
01 Mar 2012 13:57
  • jim1274
  • jim1274's Avatar
OK--here we go on my experience and observations on Quality Sleep Shop (Lagrange location):

Small place, with a very modest showroom and a giant window to watch the mattresses being built (the web page photos must be Brookfield location--this shop is far less "fancy".) The very nice sales lady gave us a tour of the factory, which was basically a couple assembly stations. It was nice to be able to see a mattress being built, and surprising how fast an experienced technician can make one. Overall, I liked the place a lot and would definitely send my friends there even with the hour drive. No hard sell at all, and when we took a break to go a couple blocks down the street for lunch (Kenny's bar has good corned beef and tater tots....), she just offered us a business card thinking we were done shopping--no sales pressure is high in my book of needs. I decided that they had a wide range of products that seemed to be a good quality/price ratio and this would be the source for my new mattress.

On to the products:

Latex mattress: I made a bee-line for the latex, thinking this was what I was going to "want". It seemed a little soft to both the wife and I, but I tried to discount that as Tim could probably modify it to be a little firmer. Neither one of us liked the "springy-ness" of it for lack of a better word. (I did come back to the latex in between the other mattresses to do an A/B again)

MiComfort Gel: Tried this one next since Dino was high on it and selected for purchase. I liked it. The foam recovered pretty quickly, and I did not have that sinking in and rolling out of a hole feeling of the Tempur-Pedics we had layed on a few months back. I liked it a little more than the wife, but she said it was something she felt would be "OK" to her.

"Traditional" mattresses: We tried all of the better quality offerings in the store, and liked the Emily best. (www.qualitysleepshop.com/emily/) We both liked the feel of the single-sided model the best, but the idea of the two-sided for longer service life. It was surprising how much different the mattresses felt--did not expect the two-sider to soften up the feel as much as it did. Had Tim been there, I would have asked if the two-sider could be modified in the comfort layers to firm up to the feel of the one-sider. Another question I would have asked is whether it made sense to upgrade the top comfort layer from 1" Ultra Premium Foam to Latex for durability--does that even make sense?

Bottom line: The wife was drawn to the "feel" of the traditional innerspring style mattress, the Emily in particular. I was torn between this and the new gel mattress. Really want to pull the trigger, but thought best to mull it over before deciding. I think either choice would be a huge improvement over my broken down Stearns and Foster.
01 Mar 2012 13:10
  • jim1274
  • jim1274's Avatar

Just an update. Stopped by Quality Sleep Shop and checked out the new gel foam mattress.

Here is the details of the mattress:
3” 3lb. Swirl gel foam -
1” blended latex 16 ILD
6” 2.8lb core 50 ILD


I didn’t realize the gel foam is 3lb until I got home. I am assuming it does not need to be 5lb or greater since its gel infused. Maybe you can elaborate Phoenix.

Other than this, Quality sleep shop is in the process of updating there website. They also will custom make mattresses to any specs. Something I think we were not sure of.

Also, I really cant say enough about Tim. Great guy and very helpful.

And the same goes for you Phoenix.


FWIW, either you had the layer spec wrong or Tim changed the design on the MiComfort gel mattress--there is actually another layer of bended latex--top to bottom layering:

1" blended latex (75% talalay/25% memory foam)
1.5" Gel foam ("Futura" Gel)
1.5" Gel foam ("Futura" Gel)
1" blended latex (75% talalay/25% memory foam)
6” 2.8lb core 50 ILD

They actually had a cross section sample in the store that confirmed the layering. The spec on the foams in the comfort layers was per a salesperson in the store--Tim was not in yesterday to field more detailed questions.

This appears to be a hot item in the store--they ran out of material and had about a half dozen orders in the queue.
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