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Searched for: christeli
17 Mar 2022 13:40
  • NikkiTMU
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Hi Edvard_Grieg.

If you haven't already, I'd recommend reaching out directly to Brooklyn Bedding with the specifications you're looking to match to see what they recommend as most similar from their inventory (as they know their product best). While I can theorize as to what might feel similar based on side by side comparisons of specs, they'll have greater knowledge as experts on their brand.

As far as approximating the feel and support between different systems this is not an accurate or reliable way to ensure that the mattress meets your particular needs and preferences, unless you have a transparent manufacturer/retailer that either has experience with or carries one of the products you are considering. There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn't a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).

NikkiTMU
17 Jan 2022 13:58
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Hi missingmyoldmattress.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :)

I'm sorry that the mattress you loved is no longer available and that your replacement isn't giving you the proper support and pressure relief you need. You're not the first looking to replace a mattress that is no longer in production. You might find it helpful to peruse post #9 here which describes several ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one.

There are also several factors that can affect how soft or firm a mattress (or an individual layer) feels besides just the exact specs, density, and ILD of the foam used (see post #4 here for more information )

The best you can hope for in such an endeavor is to find something “in the range”, but only your own careful personal testing along with several detailed conversations with an experienced and knowledgeable manufacturer/retailer may have any chance to get you a little closer to a mattress that replicates your sleeping experience of your preferred mattress.

NikkiTMU
23 Nov 2021 19:02
  • NikkiTMU
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Hi Codude.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :)

Thanks for joining us all the way from reddit! I've seen some pretty interesting mattress conversations in the mattress feed over there. Long time lurker :)

To take some words from Phoenix...

While you usually won't find an mattress that is "equivalent" to a “target” mattress you have tested locally made by a different manufacturer... in some cases the "art and science" of approximating a mattress has already been done to a large extent and an online manufacturer or retailer may have already "matched" their mattresses to a specific mattress. In other cases they may be aware that one of their mattresses is a close approximation to another mattress based on their own personal experience (even if it isn't in the mattress description) so if the mattress it approximates is available locally then this would give you a chance to test a specific local mattress that was a reasonably close approximation to a mattress you are considering online. Attempting to find something that is exactly the same would be an exercise in futility and often a frustrating experience especially if you are trying to do that on your own. There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. This being said you could be put on the right track by seeking guidance from an experienced manufacturer or retailer (like those in our Trusted Members , who would be much more qualified to best approximate a mattress feel based on all the specs and the personal needs and preferences you may provide.

You may also find this forum topic by a DIYer who was trying to replicate an iSeries 3000 interesting, especially as it pertains to combo/specs that mimic your preferences.

I hope this gives you a useful launching point. Please do come back if and when more questions arise!
NikkiTMU
20 Sep 2021 18:34
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Hi johnti006.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :)

It looks like you've put a lot of thought and research into your configuration. Mattress-mattress matching is a very difficult thing to do (which more often than not proves to be a futile exercise). You might find it helpful to peruse post #9 here which describes several ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. There are also several factors that can affect how soft or firm a mattress (or an individual layer) feels besides just the exact specs, density, and ILD of the foam used (see post #4 here for more information )

That aside, I do think your proposed set up looks appropriate for your heights/weights/sleeping positions. You did mention that you're questions the 3" in the comfort layer. For you, as primarily a back sleeper, 3" may in fact be excessive. A good starting point for a back sleeper is 2" of softer material on top of your mattress and then increasing or decreasing from there. And for your wife as a combo sleeper, it is usually wise to choose a comfort layer that is a little thinner than your "deepest” sleeping position would normally require (typically side sleeping) and then choose a support layer underneath that helps to sink in a little extra when you need it.

I am not sure if any of the above will prove useful to you as you move forward, but I certainly hope I've offered something here that can help.

NikkiTMU
17 Aug 2021 18:12
  • NikkiTMU
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Hi jswhite.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :)

It's exciting to embark on a new mattress shopping journey. We have a number of resources to help you get started. In case you haven't already, I would suggest perusing the Mattress Shopping Tutorial as well as our Mattress Durability Guidelines .

I wasn't able to find much information on the Restonic Sensora. Would you happen to know what the layers are (the material and the density of the material, if possible)?
What is it you like about this mattress in terms of support and feel?

You might find it helpful to review post #9 here which describes several ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one.

NikkiTMU
31 Jul 2021 22:47
  • phoenix
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Hi ijw1212.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

Great to hear that you still “really like” both mattresses purchased from Spindle Mattress a few years back when they were made with continuous pour Dunlop.

My mom is currently looking to get a second mattress that gives her a comparable feel - she prefers a softer bed. And we both really like Spindle but their offerings have changed. They are now using molded dunlop (not sure if this would make for a noticeably firmer bed) though the bigger issue is that they do not sell soft latex layers anymore.


There is some information about the different ways that one mattress can "match" another one in post #9 here . Generally, I’d keep in mind that every difference between two mattresses can either have a cumulative effect or an offsetting effect that is very difficult for even a knowledgeable and experienced online manufacturer or retailer to predict without personal experience on both mattresses. Replicating a mattress involves a high degree of uncertainty unless, of course, all the components, layers, materials, and design or your new mattress is an exact replica and matches in every way the blueprint mattress (in effect resulting is the same mattress) Most consumers tend to rely only on the ILD of the layers or other more basic specs which by themselves can be very misleading and inaccurate.

This said you are in a fortunate position as you can reach out to Spindle themselves for specific guidance. They are most familiar with both your reference mattresses and can help you translate specific properties, response, and other factors of the continuous pour Dunlop latex mattress to a molded Dunlop mattress for your mom that closely matches the feel and performance of your target mattress.

You most likely are aware that Spindle Mattress is one of the Trusted members of our site who have the knowledge and experience to "translate" how the many seemingly small differences between the two mattresses may either accumulate or offset each other and "feel" in real life.

I’ll be sending a note to Neal at Spindle about your post as this translation might be of interest to other forum visitors.

Phoenix
21 Jun 2021 23:48
  • phoenix
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Hi susu123.

Attempting to recreate the feel of a sectional sofa can prove very challenging even for the most experienced mattress manufacturers and furniture retailers. A sofa-mattress feel matching is even more difficult than a mattress-mattress matching (which more often than not proves to be a futile exercise). You might find it helpful to peruse post #9 here which describes several ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one.

Crate and Barrel has 35+ collections and many models each with different configurations, materials, and components. Every individual layer, component, construction/design (depth, length of the chaise, thickness, firmness, cushion number, etc) in your sofa (including the cover, FR barrier, any quilting material, and of course all foam layers and support) affects the feel and response of every other layer and component and how it “responds as a whole" to each individual sleeper. This is to say that you'd need to study your sofa, carefully assess the design, and find the specs of each component in order to determine if you can create a mattress that approximates its feel and be a good "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences)

I’d keep in mind that any slight change or deviation from the “model sofa” will be amplified by any other unmatched component or specification in your DIY and will modify your experience and the feel of the target mattress as a whole. There are also several factors that can affect how soft or firm a mattress (or an individual layer) feels besides just the exact specs, density, and ILD of the foam used (see post #4 here for more information )

The best you can hope for in such an endeavor is to find something “in the range”, but only your own careful personal testing along with several detailed conversations with an experienced and knowledgeable manufacturer/retailer may have any chance to get you a little closer to a mattress that replicates your sleeping experience of your current sofa.

Phoenix
06 Mar 2021 23:03
  • phoenix
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Hi capecodbeachfront.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :)

Bought a new non hybrid about 8 years ago. After a year or so it started to 'sink'. No longer comfortable... just too soft.


The sagging, sinking, and premature softening are indicative of the foam materials breaking down. Any mattress can feel good in the showroom but the durability and the quality of the materials and components within the mattress is what determines how long you will sleep well on it. You are quite fortunate that after using a sagging mattress for 7-8 years you are not experiencing lower back pains and sleepless nights.

As you are in the market for a new mattress, if you haven't done so already, definitely take a look at our Durability Guidelines and dismiss any mattress for which you do not know the thickness, density and IFD/ILD

we have sort of settled on a BeautyRest Silver 12" hybrid in Extra Firm. Extra Firm mattresses seem to be very hard to find. But I now worry as a hybrid it will.... 1/ Not remain firm 2/ Not have a sturdy edge.

Generally speaking, the major manufacturers and brands (such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta) all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors. These materials and components in their mattresses will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here . along with post #3 here . and post #12 here . and post #404 here ).

You did not share any of your stats with us so I am not able to determine if there a particular reason you're seeking out an extra firm mattress? What led you to this particular BeautyRest?

They are listing the following comfort Layers:
1" AirCool Foam
.5" Plush Comfort Foam
.5" Dynamic Response Memory Foam
2" Firm Comfort Foam
Support System:
900 Series Beautyrest® Firm Pocketed Coil® Technology

Their proprietary ingredients are listed without specific details on the materials themselves, important for evaluating a mattress's durability long-term. Also, BeautyRest mattresses have the "Beauty Edge" which just means that the outer edges of the mattress are reinforced to make it more stable when you sit on the edge of the mattress, and so you don't roll off if you sleep to the edge of the bed. If the foam density is low then the foam perimeter itself is subject to breakdown over time.

At home we have a Serta Prestondale but have no idea what firmness it is. But we did need to add a topper so it likely is at least firm but not a hybrid. Does anyone know the specs of the Serta Prestondale?


Serta Prestondale is a discontinued line up and even if you would know the specs, attempting to find something that is exactly the same is often a frustrating and futile exercise especially if you are trying to do this on your own. There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one.
Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover, FR barrier, any quilting material, and of course all foam layers) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress "as a whole" so you would need to carefully asses the design and the specs of each mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials in order to determine if that the mattress in its entirety will be a good "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) This is especially important when you are trying to approximate the mattress you are considering with others that use the same type of materials and components which may be just as durable but have a different design or firmness level that may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on.

"Specs" about each person's body type and sleeping position are an important part of how each person interacts with a mattress but there are many other variables as well. There are many different types of layering combinations that can perform equally well for people of a certain height and weight and sleeping style so the most "accurate" way to "fit" a mattress to each person is to work with a knowledgeable local person who has the experience and knowledge to help you make the most suitable choices in "real time" and in person. There are some general weight and height guidelines here and some general guidelines about sleeping positions here and some information about how different types of layering can change and affect these guidelines in this section of the site but these are general guidelines and starting points only and will do more to help you know who has the knowledge to help you make the best choices more than they can be used to design or recommend a specific mattress based on what I call "theory at a distance".

The first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here (there is a condensed version of it at the end of that post) which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps, more importantly, know how and why to avoid the worst ones. Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

I hope the information provided will put you on the right track and help you find a suitable mattress.

Phoenix
08 Feb 2021 22:05
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Hi mrsmatt.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :)

You are quite fortunate that you were able to get 10 years out of your memory foam mattress which is a reasonable lifespan for this type of mattress. Sorry to hear that you've started to experience pains due to foam breakdown and that the replacement mattress from the foam factory that isn't measuring cannot be returned.

Attempting to find something that is exactly the same as your old mattress is often a frustrating and futile exercise especially if you are trying to do this on your own. There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. The best way to do this would be under the guidance of an experienced manufacturer or retailer, who has some knowledge of the previous mattress you slept on and has the experience to best approximate a mattress feel based on all the specs and your personal needs and preferences you may provide.

Is it possible to remove that top layer of foam and replace it with a Tempur pedic topper, or something similar?


It looks like you are trying to find a way to make the mattress you purchased work for you. Something like this is called “mattress surgery” but you’d need to arm yourself with the knowledge, resources and understanding of how to do this to maximize your chances of success. This path is as bit as involved as the path of researching for a new mattress. Even still, there will still be some risks involved because once again you have to have enough understanding of what are your needs the interrelatedness of the layer thickness, firmness/softness, and how a layer will interact with the layers below and above... also until you actually sleep on the mattress replacing the layer(s)... you won't know for certain whether it's the best choice for you in terms of PPP.

The best you will hope for is to find something “in the range”, but realize that only your own careful personal testing or a detailed conversation with an experienced and knowledgeable manufacturer/retailer that has your best interests at heart will reveal whether or not the feel you are looking for is close to what your desires and need.

If you decide to go for mattress surgery … it would be well worth contacting the manufacturer and explaining what your situation is and what you are trying to do. Hopefully, they’ll be willing to assist you and offer some insights as they know their products better than anyone else. At least they can tell you the thickness and density of the memory foam layer and if it is glued to the layer underneath. Also, they can inform you about the layering of your current mattress and. I’d also ask them about the density and thickness of each layer within the mattress.

I’d be prepared to answer questions about the current mattress. Is it too soft/too firm? Is it causing pain? What type of pains? What is it you are hoping to achieve by altering the mattress? What are your specific stats in terms of body type, BMI, sleeping positions, etc.

Either way, before making the call I’d make sure to do some reading on finding out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress.
Also, the tutorial post here has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines you will need to make the best possible choices.

I'd be curious to know if they are willing to assist you..

Phoenix
04 Feb 2021 22:19
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Hi noahsi.

I do not think going the custom route is what I want to do at the moment - I am already testing my partners patience with the deliberations on the mattress and platform!


Understood! Thankfully, many great options exist that are ready to take home and sleep on.

Is it fair to say the version with the 28 ild Talalay topper would be pretty similar to what I have now? (Maybe a little softer)? The middle layer is a little softer in the Luma and I don’t know how the latex base support layer in the Luma compares to the foam in my current Brooklyn bedding mattress.... Do you think the Luma would be a bit more plush than the nest?


This wouldn’t be “fair to say” regarding the mattresses you are looking at … or any other mattress where all the materials and components are not exactly the same. To recap you can see that the materials and thicknesses are different.
(10”) height (your previous discontinued mattress)
2" Talalay (28 ILD)
2" Dunlop (32 ILD)
6" of a 2 lb convoluted polyfoam core (around 32 ILD)

(11”) Luma all latex is
3" Talalay in either 19, 28, or 36 ILD or 3" Dunlop in 24, 30, or 38 ILD
2" Dunlop (30 ILD)
6" Dunlop (38 ILD]

And the Nest (medium) is
1.5" 1.5 lb foam
3" Dunlop (27 ILD)
6" Dunlop (36 ILD)

All of the layers of foam work together in a completed mattress, and there would be no way for me to tell how each layer of foam is impacting the comfort that you feel on each of these units, as only you can feel that. Also, thickness and firmness are interdependent when it comes to the sleeper's overall support/comfort. With a 12" mattress ... the firmness would need to go up (than what you had for a 10” thick mattress) on average because thicker mattresses will "act" softer for most people. If you make changes to one of the specs (such as the layer thickness of the top layer) ... then you may also need to make other changes to the other layers to compensate.

Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn't a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place). This being said you are on the right track by seeking guidance from an experienced manufacturer or retailer, who would be the ones to best approximate a mattress feel based on all the specs and your personal needs and preferences you may provide. post #2 here.

Because there are so many objective and subjective elements involved in matching one mattress to another and because different materials or components can have the same quality in terms of density and durability and even the same design in terms of layer thickness but still have different performance properties or "subjective feel" ... matching one mattress to another from the perspective of a mattress designer and from the perspective of a consumer can be as much an art as a science. Even if say 8 out of 10 people agree that one mattress is a close approximation to another in one or more ways in terms of feel and performance ... there will always be those who don't agree because their perceptions, preferences, or sensitivities are different.

The Luma website says the warranty can be voided if the support platform is inappropriate but they do not define what that means.


My recommendation would be to reach out and ask them. This is the best way to be sure you're not voiding your warranty. Generally, in the case of latex, the main criteria for most manufacturers concerns the distance between slats that should be no more than 3" apart (or preferably less). Placing it on the floor would qualify as a supportive surface to make sure that it doesn't sink through any gap.

Would something like this foundation be appropriate: www.tuftandneedle.com/basics/box-foundation/ ? This one the slats are 3.5 inches apart. I’m not sure if the extra space will make much of a difference or not.


Again, an all-latex mattress should not be placed on a slatted base with gaps larger than 3" apart (preferably less) The integrity of the latex is compromised and you may lose some of the supportive qualities you would otherwise benefit from on a proper base. I’d also make sure that the slatted bed has a center beam with good support to the floor (in sizes above a twin) so it doesn't sag.

I hope this clarifies your doubts.

Phoenix
11 Nov 2020 22:19
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Hi YSPhotog.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :)

A DIY mattress is always a fun and challenging experience, and it’s great that you’re looking to build something that will offer both longevity and comfort to your son.

Looking at the specifications on the Serta iSeries 1000 Hybrid, especially for a “big boy like his father” I would have some concerns regarding the durability for this unit and trying to replicate the feel of this mattress using its specs. You may want to check out the Mattress Durability Guidelines for your son’s DIY.

There is some fairly detailed but generic information in the mattresses section of the site that will give you some insights into the theory behind mattress layering and design for different body types and sleeping styles but these are not specific to any individual person. Each different design and combination of materials can lead to a different answer ... especially when there are unique needs, preferences, and challenges that may be very different from the norm or any "averages". For example, I’ve noticed you added about 2” to the comfort layer. Was that decision based on something specific, or through mattress testing, etc?

I’d also keep in mind that attempting to find something that is exactly the same is often a frustrating and futile exercise especially if you are trying to do that on your own. There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn't a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).

This being said I think that you’d be better served by contacting one of our mattress experts that offer DIY options to help you with your build. They would be the best to help you approximate a mattress feel based on all the specs and your personal needs and preferences you may provide.

The only layer I'm not sure about is the 1" 2.8# 35 ILD HD36-HQ Foam on top of the coils between the memory foam- I'm not sure if this would make the bed too thick above the coils and feeling like he's falling into it.

The layers that will affect whether or not he feels he’s sinking too deeply will be the two 2” foam comfort layers. The 1” is a medium-firm buffer/transition layer that is likely contributing to some secondary support. In some mattress constructions, particularly those with thinner comfort layers, they have secondary functions of helping the comfort layers to form a pressure relieving cradle and helping to hold up the more recessed parts of the body profile such as the lumbar area. You may wish to revisit the The basic functions of a mattress article for clarifying these concepts.

We have very experienced DIY experts on the forum. A few who come to mind are DIY Natural Bedding, Arizona Premium . You are welcome to contact Arizona Premium in their dedicated forum, or you can reach out to DIY Natural Bedding and ask them to weigh in here.

Looking forward to how your DIY journey unfolds!

Phoenix
19 Aug 2020 21:12
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Hi wangl042!

Welcome to our Mattress Forum :)

I used to own a Queen-sized Estate Governor's Palace Ultra Firm and loved how firm it was for my lower back pain. Now this line has discontinued and I'm looking for its replacement. I have two questions: 1. What is the equivalent of this model for my next purchase now?

]I was unable to uncover any details about this mattress (height, if it’s a hybrid, innerspring, or all-foam mattress, etc.). Unfortunately, I’m unable to make any sort of meaningful commentary without knowing the mattress specifications. I did come across this mattress …but it is an “Estate Palace” not an “Estate Governor’s Palace” model. Is this the mattress you currently are looking to replace?

If you’re looking to stay with a Stearns and Foster mattress, you could try to reach out to them directly to ask what they’d consider the equivalent of your current mattress.

It’s always a bit of a frustration when a mattress you've been used to is discontinued, especially when it has been offering you great support! Attempting to find something that is exactly the same is often a frustrating and futile exercise especially if you are trying to do this on your own. There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one.
Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover, FR barrier, any quilting material, and of course all foam layers) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress "as a whole" so you would need to carefully assess the design and the specs of each mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials in order to determine if that the mattress in its entirety will be a good "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences)

2. My only complaint from it was probably it was too hot to sleep on in the summer- if for the same firmness but with a better cooling system, what is the model I should buy now? Any recommendations?

“Sleeping hot” is a common and complex issue especially for mattresses that use memory foam or polyfoams in the comfort layers. While memory foam has real strengths in the area of pressure relief and movement isolation, it also has some drawbacks because of its very different qualities and structure. It tends to sleep hot for those who are sensitive to this and even the newer generation more breathable memory foams are not as breathable or open-celled as other types of foam. Because of this, it looks to me like you are a candidate of looking into making a shift towards a mattress with higher quality components that is equally supportive and won’t sleep as hot, I’d recommend that you pay a visit to a local shop and test a latex feel to see if you like it. Latex allows for more airflow than any other foams and when changing positions on the mattress the air will be moved in and out like within an accordion. You can learn ahead of your visit about the Latex as a comfort layer as an important part of temperature regulation for those who tend to sleep hot.

Layers that are closer to the top sleeping surface will have the greatest impact upon comfort and sleeping temperature (including any mattress pad, sheets, and linen). I am not sure if you came across some of our posts that discuss temperature regulations issues, but you can read more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here more about tracking mattress temperature regulation issues potential causes ~ Post #2 here (at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) and the posts it links to that may be helpful.

Before you go too much down the rabbit hole with trying to match the S&F, I'd make sure that you do some reading & research of the mattress shopping tutorial (there is a condensed version of it ) which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps, more importantly, know how and why to avoid the worst ones. Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Pressure relief, Posture and alignment, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

When assessing any product, also be sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the mattress durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

If you’re able to find the specs of your current mattress from S&F and share them here, I’d be happy to provide a little more commentary.

Phoenix
18 Aug 2020 17:29
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Hi Searing.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

Well I'm going for it. I'm adventuring into the land of mattress surgery to convert our Stearns and Foster "Heirloom" to a Dunlop latex/pocketcoil hybrid. Thanks for providing such a great place for sharing the knowledge on this topic. :)

Quite an adventure in the lands of “mattress surgery”! I see you are approaching this in the spirit of “adventure “which is always the best place to start. I am glad to hear that you have found both the forum and the site useful.

While I have several questions, I'm looking for any general guidance on the process or layer selection given the original mattress was quite comfortable. Unfortunately it only lasted ~7 years before starting to lose support. I still get a very good sleep in the middle of the mattress away from the normal sleep zones but that only happens when my wife is away.

It’s worth mentioning that attempting to build something that is closely matching your previous mattress (when it felt “quite comfortable” can often a frustrating and futile attempt especially as you are considering different materials and also if you are trying to do this on your own, so I am glad you are looking for some guidance. I’d respond here to your initial questions but you’d be better off approaching one of our experts on their dedicated forum when it comes to deep dive in fine-tuning. You probably came across post #9 here the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one talking about several reasons why this can be difficult. In your case, the mattress rapid “aging” and breakdown of lower quality foams resulted in sagging. This happened over time which makes it difficult to pinpoint the moment when it turned from sleeping well to not sleeping so well and any ratios of break down/comfort. Also, within your 7 years, your body changed with normal aging and also tried to adapt and compensate for lack of support and alignment. (Your lower back pain in the morning is a good indicator of alignment issues).

Every individual layer and component you may choose for your mattress rebuild (including the cover, FR barrier, any quilting material, and of course all foam layers) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress "as a whole" so you would need to carefully assess the design and the specs of each layer combination.

The areas with lost support have almost no impressions but can be felt when pushing on the mattress. I think Phoenix describes these as ghost or virtual impressions.

This is correct. The term I use is “virtual” or “phantom” body impressions, where impressions don’t show up when measured by someone testing for a warranty challenge, but the excessive softening of the foams in the area where you sleep is felt when lying upon the mattress.Virtual/ghost impressions in the mattress are caused by a premature breakdown of materials in your current mattress, and likely the culprit of your back pain.

My basic questions:: Aside form the possibility of somehow reusing the existing ticking, is there any benefit to using thicker or multiple layers of Latex to get back to the original mattress thickness? The foam in the ticking is soft in the sleep zones so will have to be removed.


The thickness of a mattress is much less important than the specifics of what is inside the mattress and which specific design is the best match for you in terms of PPP.(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) There is more in post #14 here about the potential benefits of thicker individual layers The mattress itself. 8" - 10" is inside the range for the thickness that would allow for a suitable design for the large majority of people.

The benefit to using latex in replacing the polyfoam layers of the original mattress is an increase in durability and responsiveness. It’s also a great material when considering lumbar and back support. As you’ve likely already read, latex is very elastic which gives it the ability to instantly form a pressure-relieving cradle that takes on the exact shape of the body. This means that in its softer ILD's it has a pressure-relieving ability that is superior to most other materials and very similar to that of memory foam.

That said, higher densities of HD polyfoam or HR polyfoam can be a good, slightly less expensive alternative to latex in a core layer for those who are on a more restricted budget and are looking for a good quality foam mattress core.

Is 6.5" of S&F Intellicoil spring a reasonable starting point?

Yes, this is a good support layer for a DIY mattress. Coils are rarely the weak link in a mattress. and a very good support layer.

I note that the Avocado Green is the highest rated mattress from Consumer Reports and if they shipped to Canada, I don't think I'd be posting this message. Their mattress has a firmness rating of 7 by CR which is one of the firmest in their tests. Originally I was planning one or two layers of 30ish ILD Dunlop but the Avocado only uses one 2" layer of D65/ 14-19 ILD. However, Arizona Premium labels 20-24 ILD as plush, 25-29 ILD as Medium and 30-34 ILD as firm. Comments?

You are comparing different products (Avocado & Arizona Pr) different thicknesses, components, and even foams of the same type and ILDs from different sources will feel different (given everything else is the same. There are many interconnected variables involved In building our own mattress and it is impossible to predict how a new layer choice would compare to your previous mattress even though the materials themselves may have similar properties they can be quite different in feel and firmness (for the same ILD) Dunlop and Talalay aren't directly comparable in terms of firmness using only ILD numbers because there are several factors that can affect how soft or firm a mattress (or an individual layer) feels besides just the ILD of the material (see post #4 here )

The top encasement of the coil springs is a 1.5" thick layer of polyfoam that is glued to the sidewall polyfoam encasement. If I remove this, do I need to glue something in its place? Can the latex go right on top or should I place a layer of something in between?


I am not sure I understand correctly if the foam is on the sides, top, or both (your attached photos did not go through for some reason). Generally, provided that the fabric is strong enough to hold in place all components, removing the top foam should not be a problem however if on the side removing 3” of foam make the encasement lose and allow for the shifting of the layering.

My more in depth questions:: Latex hybrid mattresses seem to have one, maybe two layers of foam on top. Why is it that mattresses like mine have so many more layers? With seven layers above the coil springs, is there some general mattress theory that might explain some of this layering? I suspect this is somewhat beyond the technical level of this forum.

Sometimes it is part of the design other times is making it thicker which in the eyes of the inexperienced mattress shopper equates with more comfort… reasons can vary. Theories are plenty but a mattress is only good as well it feels for any particular individual and as long as it maintains its comfort/support properties.

The bottom encasement is a layer of polyfoam. Should I be concerned about replacing this layer? I see Avocado uses 1" of D65/14-19 ILD Latex but most shops do not seem to sell 1".

This is called a base/stabilization layer. Many mattresses do not have it and it is not an issue as long as the spring unit is intact and you have a good foundation under the unit.
If you chose to keep it here are some of the reasons, you’d want to have a stabilization layer
a. Provides a solid surface that enables the pocketed coil springs to “activate” and function efficiently.
b. Helps with stabilizing the mattress from any side sway.
c. Provides protection and functions as an insulator pad in foundations for cushioning steel and wood touchpoints, which makes the mattress compatible with most types of foundation designs.
d. It can be a cost-effective alternative to foam to increase mattress thickness
If you reuse it, I’d make sure is either in-tact or have it replaced. There are sources that sell 1” foam. You may want to check some of our Trusted Members that have 1” foams.

I am considering a zippered mattress ticking with quilted wool for breath-ability. Will the wool in this style of cover get compacted in the sleep areas?

This is a good choice as soon as you decided on the overall thickness of your mattress. It allows for customization and any layer exchanges that may be necessary. Wool can have many effects on the latex underneath it depending on how thick, compressed, and/or densified it is and how soft it is relative to the foam underneath it. Over time as the wool compresses ... it will have a greater effect on the foam underneath it as it becomes firmer. A wool mattress pad is also generally "softer" than a wool quilted mattress ticking because it isn't an integral part of the mattress and will conform more to the layer underneath it. How well a wool quilted cover will conform to the latex underneath it also depends on the material that it is quilted to. The more stretchable the material (stretch knits for example as opposed to a damask cover which is woven) the better the latex can take on the shape of the body and the more pressure relieving the latex can be.

Should the height of the new ticking be shorter than the stack height of the mattress components? By how much?

It depends if you keep the existing glued 1.5” foam and of its location. A good cover should be well taut with no slack to keep the layers secure in place. I’d take some good measurements with it taut if you decide to reuse it.

…. Without personal testing and going through the learning curve of becoming familiar enough with different types of materials and layering and how they work in combination with each other to predict how a certain layering may work for you ... you would be much better off simply going with the suggestions of a knowledgeable retailer or manufacturer who is familiar with how the different options they offer fits the "averages" of people who may be similar to you.

Overall, there is no formula that can predict with any certainty what type of layering you may do best with that can possibly be more accurate than your own personal experience.

Hope it gives you some gear for the mattress adventure land.
Phoenix
04 May 2020 14:30
  • Sensei
  • Sensei's Avatar
Hey JustinC92,

Welcome to the TMU Forum :cheer: ! Thanks for your question.

Just emailed you on this topic, but figured that replying to this thread may be a better place to post…My girlfriend has the firm version of the IKEA Matrand mattress and I absolutely love the feel of it. I want to do my best to re-create that feel but with natural latex. Any advice on that?


Hope you don't mind if I try and help with your question as Phoenix is busily working on some forum updates currently, knew that you had waited a bit for a response. I did see that you received some excellent advice from TMU expert member Sleep EZ , Please help: IKEA Matrand mattress with latex componenets post #2, thanks @RodgerHermes for your insights and assistance.

From IKEA's website and Matrand/ firm mattress description, these specs were listed within the "Environment & materials" tab:

Materials:
Ticking/ Ticking, side:
64 % cotton, 36 % polyester
Ticking/ Ticking:
64 % polyester, 36 % cotton
Ticking:
50 % polyester, 50 % viscose/rayon
Protective fabric/ Lining/ Part 3:
Non-woven polypropylene
Comfort material:
Polyester/viscose (rayon) fiber wadding, Polyurethane memory foam 3.1 lb/cu.ft, Polyurethane foam 1.7 lb/cu.ft.

You mention an interest in re-creating the "feel" of this memory foam mattress using natural latex instead, so my question for you would be: have you slept on a latex mattress before? Memory foam, with its soft, cradling nature does indeed "sleep warmer" for some as it provides a feeling of "sinking in" with its pressure-reliving capabilities. Latex, on the other hand, is a more elastic, springier foam with a more supportive feel, creating a "sleeping on" the mattress experience. You can read more about different foam constructions in Phoenix's article "Mattress Comfort Layers- Overview" , useful for understanding how different materials impact the feel of the upper layers of construction. To further break things down, check out "Latex- Pros and Cons" as well as "Memory Foam- Pros and Cons" .

I agree with Rodger's earlier statement that "the only real way to replicate the feel of that mattress would be to order that same mattress. Also, without actually feeling the mattress there would be no way of knowing how to get an all-latex mattress that feels just like the mattress you referenced." Trying to find something that is exactly the same is both frustrating and nearly impossible. Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover, FR barrier, any quilting material, and of course all foam layers) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress "as a whole", so you would need to carefully assess the design and the specs that uses exactly the same type of materials to determine if that the mattress in its entirety will be a good "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences). You can read more in this post discussing the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" one another. Your best bet to find something close without the ability to comparison shop in the current COVID environment would be to have a detailed conversation with an experienced and knowledgeable manufacturer/retailer such as any of our Trusted Members who through phone chats could better guide you in the selection process for something best matching your personal comfort/ PPP preferences. Hope this helps and keep us posted…

Thanks,
Sensei
12 Apr 2020 23:20
  • Sweet Dreams
  • Sweet Dreams's Avatar
Note: I see that Christeli is no longer listed as a trusted member of TMU.
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