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Searched for: best mattress ever alexander love bed
18 Apr 2021 12:08
  • Sensei
  • Sensei's Avatar
Hey noahsi,

Good to see you back on the forum and thanks for your updates :) !

Thanks again for the insightful responses. I wound up exchanging the topper of the Luma for a "medium-firm" option which was a 3inch 32 ild Talalay and it was much too firm so after 2 nights of not sleeping at all we switched back onto the 28 ild and I returned the 32. There was some confusion as they thought they mistakenly sent me a 36 ild topper however the label on the new one definitely said 32 ild, so I don't think there was a mixup.


Okay, so you went with the comfort exchange! That's too bad that you found the 32 ILD to be that much firmer than the 28 ILD, as there shouldn't be that much difference between the two. But again, as we are fond of saying here at TMU: only you can "feel" what you feel on a mattress :) .

For anyone considering the Luma I would caution that one of the selling points is the top layer is separate seemingly making it easier to do an exchange. That is true, however the exchange consists of *just* the latex foam and not the encasement, so you still have to open it up and swap it out which is a bit of a pain. I guess it still makes sense to have 2 layers so that the mattress isn't extremely heavy (the bottom section is already quite heavy), but it's not as simple as it would seem.


I'm sorry to hear that you had some difficulty swapping the latex cores with the zippered encasement, noahsi. I checked with Luma Sleep and verified that it is their practice to only exchange the latex itself, as the zippered cover is the same thickness and still useable; this is a measure to avoid product waste and expedite the exchange process. It also promotes sustainability by avoiding unnecessary landfill contributions.

In any case, I think we are probably going to move on from this mattress as it just doesn't seem to be a good fit for us, unfortunately, as I was very excited when I ordered it.


After a re-read of all of your research posts and progress, I reached out to expert trusted member Luma Sleep 's owner regarding your purchase and exchange experience, and he has offered another exchange option and extension of your in-home trial, Luma is well-know for helping customers finding a solution. As you still have your mattress, it may be worthwhile to reach out to Stefano and find what other topper may be better suited for you.

With respect to the BB Bloom Hybrid the coil gauge is 13.5 for the perimeter and 14.75 for the center. I am not exactly certain how firm or supportive that actually is. That said, maybe this is the best option in terms of getting close to the feeling of the previous BB mattress that I had?


The BB Bloom Hybrid uses 6" proprietary Ascension X coils in the support core. The 13.5 gauge perimeter coil is firmer for more edge support, and the 14.75 gauge coils would provide a uniform medium support feel across the mattress's base. The mattress also features a 3" 28 ILD Talalay comfort layer. It comes in one firmness: medium. It's difficult to say if this hybrid would provide a similar feel to your beloved BB Best Mattress Ever model, as an all-foam mattress's support feel is much different than that of pocket coils. Each fabric encased coil moves independently with motion and is responsive to your body's movement. When you combine 3" of Talalay over the coils, you may find that to be quite a nice combination if you change positions often during the night.

I think I am going to try to choose one from either: Nest Alexander Signature Hybrid, Nest Natural Latex Hybrid, BB Aurora, BB Sedona, BB Bloom. Is it safe to say that all of these are of a high quality from a durability perspective or do any have any obvious red flags to be aware of?


Any of these mattresses should be a safe bet, noahsi. You may try a TMU site search using any of these models as they each have been discussed regularly.

I did go to a showroom in NYC last week and was able to lay on the BB Sedona, which felt nice but maybe a little soft, but they were kind of pushy towards either the Helix lux twilight (which upon some further research seems to have a mixed bag with respect to durability) and something called MLILLY power cell mattress, which upon further research doesn't seem to be a high quality mattress either, so I guess take the "opinion" of the salesperson with a grain of salt.


Good job on the showroom visit! The BB Sedona has several comfort layers of memory foam over its pocket coil array, rather than latex that you have experience with. You've mentioned previously that sleeping cool is a preference; memory foam is well-known for its tendency to create a warmer feel as you sleep and that may be a consideration in your choices. It also gives a "sleeping in" a mattress feel as opposed to latex's "sleeping on" a mattress's feel.

When a salesperson is moving you towards particular brands rather than what you have interest in, it's likely that the brand is offering some incentives to promote their products. I'm not familiar with Mlilly's line; however, their site FAQs state that "All Sales are Final", so that would be a deal breaker for many shoppers. Thanks again for your detailed updates, noahsi, and let us know more as you make your next move.

Thanks ;) ,
Sensei
05 Feb 2020 10:20
  • MattressToGo
  • MattressToGo's Avatar
Hey Austin:

I'll do my best to answer a few of your questions that are in my wheelhouse. Much of what you're asking for is to have someone pick out /differentiate quite a few different mattresses for you, which isn't what I do. But maybe some others on the forum could offer a few insights to assist you in those areas.

I have been looking at several companies in the bed in a box space just mainly for seemingly more affordability and great return policies. I have not been able to sleep well due the current state of my current mattress so finding the “right one” is important to me.


If you're very specific about comfort, testing something out in person may be of primary importance to you. Many brick and mortar stores also offer return policies, although testing in person can alleviate the need for this. "Seemingly more affordability" is a good statement, as some of the largest boxed bed companies may "seem" to offer more affordable products, but when you analyze the quality of componentry, they actually don't compare well to many of the non-boxed products, as well as some of the smaller boxed-bed products. It's paramount that you learn about the quality of componentry to make an accurate analysis of a product. Be sure to study the mattress shopping tutorial offered on the TMU website to assist you with that.

I did go to a nearby Mattress Firm and try some of the “S” brand beds and laid on several just to get an idea of the types that I may like and different options there are. I seemed to gravitate towards the Hybrid beds the most. The two I seemed to like in the store were the Tempur Pedic Pro Adapt Hybrid medium and the Sealy Silver Chill Hybrid Firm.


If you've read a bit here on the site, you'll already realize that unfortunately most of the models of the "S" brands don't tend to offer the higher-quality, higher-density flexible polyfoams that tend to be more durable. Again, it's important that you learn about every layer of material in any mattress you're considering, and at a minimum acquire the density of the foam. That way you'll be able to make an informed and educated choice, or at least logically compare items.

As for a "hybrid", I wouldn't compare/contrast mattresses based upon that term, as it's become so diluted by salespeople and mattress brands as to have little meaning. I recently wrote a Beducation blog post on the genesis of the hybrid terminology that you may find interesting. Again, focus more upon componentry than nomenclature.

I saw someone post some specs of those two and aside from price being pretty steep on those models, the comfort layers seemed to use lower quality foams and 14-16 gauge coils. I am not sure how long they would last.


The innerspring unit isn't generally the weak link within a mattress. You should primarily focus upon the comfort materials.

Information on us: Me and my Girlfriend are about 5’4 and weigh around 200-225. She sleeps mostly on her back or stomach and I am a combo sleeper but mostly on my back and stomach as well.


Sleeping prone (on your stomach) generally requires a surface comfort on the "firmer" end of the spectrum, or at least something that doesn't allow for too much sag that would exaggerate your forward lordotic curve of your low back. This doesn't mean you need to sleep upon a brick, but I'd suggest avoiding something too heavily padded or too plush on top. Back sleepers usually need something that allows for some contour of their seat and shoulders, but not so much that they're sleeping in a hammock. In general, look for something with a good support unit that helps promote a more neutral alignment, then something using "just enough" padding to get the job done, and with your specific mass concentration make sure the padding material is higher density and not overly plush in nature for increased durability. How plush is of course subjective, and these are general sleep ergonomics recommendations.

I sleep a little warm but I’m not sweating unless it’s the summer in KY as I live in a second floor condo that can get pretty warm.


Overall sleeping temperature depends upon a myriad of things and there's quite a bit of detail about it here on the forum. The items closest to your skin will have the most dramatic impact for temperature and humidity control. Good sheets that wick moisture and breathe well are important, as well as a breathable mattress pad. Softer mattresses will tend to sleep warmer than harder mattresses, as all material insulate to an extent, and the more you're "in" a mattress, the more you're insulated and the less surface area you have exposed outside of the mattress for heat exchange. Keep the relative humidity in your condo low and of course do your best to keep the room temperature in the mid-60s or so. Industry claims of "cooler sleep" tend to be exaggerated quite a bit by salespeople and take a bit of truth and stretch it to the point that you think you're going to need a heating pad to stop from freezing to death. A bit of skepticism is warranted, but not cynicism.

She does have rheumatoid arthritis but mostly just in her wrists and knees. However we both have back and neck pain and need something with a solid support.


I'm sorry to hear about the arthritis. I wish there was a mattress that could cure this, and if there was, I'd be on it as well! Taking note of how your girlfriend holds her wrists at night (some people flex at quite severe angles while sleeping) can assist with that (some even wear soft wrist braces when sleeping to stop from flexing too much). Sleeping prone can exacerbate knee pressure, so avoiding that "weak" sleeping posture can be assistive. It all depends upon the origination of the pain in the knee and the level of flexibility in the joint that might cause distress while sleeping. Back pain usually arrives from environmental reasons (previous injuries, level of strength and flexibility, weight, etc.) but can be exacerbated by a poor mattress and a poor (prone) sleeping posture. Neck issues are also quite diverse, but a properly fitted pillow promoting a more neutral alignment with a new mattress can do wonders.

I prefer a more firm mattress as well.


Ding ding. You're on a good track provided the componentry is a good quality and it's not like the floor (see my previous comments above).

I have been looking at Brooklyn Bedding Aurora, Signature and Bloom models and the people there seem to say to go with the aurora. I am worried that the coil gauge is only 16 but they are 8” pocketed coils.


As I mentioned previously, the innerspring unit within the mattress is generally not the weakest link. The Signature uses the Ascension 6" in 13 gauge. The Bloom and Aurora use the Quantum in 8" that is 16 gauge along the perimeter (with a different geometry) and 13 gauge in the center. I believe this will all eventually transition over to the in-house Ascension coils from what I remember at Market. Regardless, focus upon the foam quality, and I would tend to give particular focus to the advice in a phone call with the manufacturer, as they will tend to have the best experience with what works best with their previous clients with dimensions/issues similar to yours.

I have also looked at Wink Bed, Purple Hybrid, Nest Alexander Hybrid and Bear Hybrid. The only local manufacturer near me is Bowles Mattress and they can get pretty pricey but I have not had the time to make into their store to talk to them.


You can most likely find the current specifications for these boxed-bed products on the forum. I don't have current listings. Maybe someone else more knowledgeable with these products can be assistive. I'm not completely familiar with your local mattress company, Bowles. I have run across them before in some of my readings, and if I recall they did seem to offer some items using very high quality materials. But you'd want to investigate that directly with them. They seem to be transparent about materials.

I was hoping the lovely people here could help shed some light and offer some recommendations on what you think would be best or what route to go. I know only we could determine what’s best for our PPP but I feel a little lost in the minutiae of it all.


Hopefully some others can chime in and give more complete details to your other questions. The best advice I can give is for you to sit down and read through the mattress shopping tutorial on this site, specifically focusing upon mattress componentry and what constitutes a higher-quality padding material. I don't think you've read through this completely, as you seem to be focusing more upon the innerspring unit than the comfort material. Once you have that as a reference (not memorized), you'll be in a much better position to make an informed decision.

Good luck!
05 Feb 2020 06:22
  • AustinKY
  • AustinKY's Avatar
Hello all,
First post here and new to the mattress shopping world. I am looking to buy my first one as everything I have slept on has been secondhand. I have only really slept on your typical furniture store mattress with a innerspring and pillow top and unknown components inside. After about 10 years and lots of indentation on the left and right side (with a big hump in the center), it’s time to replace it.
I have been looking at several companies in the bed in a box space just mainly for seemingly more affordability and great return policies. I have not been able to sleep well due the current state of my current mattress so finding the “right one” is important to me. I did go to a nearby Mattress Firm and try some of the “S” brand beds and laid on several just to get an idea of the types that I may like and different options there are. I seemed to gravitate towards the Hybrid beds the most. The two I seemed to like in the store were the Tempur Pedic Pro Adapt Hybrid medium and the Sealy Silver Chill Hybrid Firm.
I saw someone post some specs of those two and aside from price being pretty steep on those models, the comfort layers seemed to use lower quality foams and 14-16 gauge coils. I am not sure how long they would last.
Information on us: Me and my Girlfriend are about 5’4 and weigh around 200-225. She sleeps mostly on her back or stomach and I am a combo sleeper but mostly on my back and stomach as well. I sleep a little warm but I’m not sweating unless it’s the summer in KY as I live in a second floor condo that can get pretty warm. She does have rheumatoid arthritis but mostly just in her wrists and knees. However we both have back and neck pain and need something with a solid support. I prefer a more firm mattress as well.
I have been looking at Brooklyn Bedding Aurora, Signature and Bloom models and the people there seem to say to go with the aurora. I am worried that the coil gauge is only 16 but they are 8” pocketed coils. I have also looked at Wink Bed, Purple Hybrid, Nest Alexander Hybrid and Bear Hybrid. The only local manufacturer near me is Bowles Mattress and they can get pretty pricey but I have not had the time to make into their store to talk to them.

I was hoping the lovely people here could help shed some light and offer some recommendations on what you think would be best or what route to go. I know only we could determine what’s best for our PPP but I feel a little lost in the minutiae of it all.

Thank you!
19 Jun 2019 14:22
  • lorac22
  • lorac22's Avatar
Hello,
I have read the mattress information provided on this forum and find it very informative but I am still in need of help. My husband and I had a Dormia for 10 years and loved it except it started to sag so our lower backs hurt. They have gone out of business. I believe it was wool pillow top with talalay latex inside and may have had coils but unsure. We are in our 40s and my weight ranges 170-190lbs and my husband is around 220-230lbs. We are both ready to shed some pounds once we get some sleep. We are both side sleepers and I may roll over on my stomach at times. We have not slept good for over a year and I feel like I have aged 20 years. We ordered a Nectar mattress May 2018 and it was too firm so we sent it back plus it off-gassed so bad which I am sensitive to. Then we tried the Zenhaven and both sides were too firm. We read about the chemicals in mattresses and decided to go clean and we are still paying off our Latex Serenity Savvy Rest. We did the Latex exchange and it is past 90 days now so we are stuck with this high quality, expensive mattress that we so much wanted to love. We have contacted Savvy Rest and they just recommend switching the layers and even purchased more for $500 each. We are mattress broke. We have changed out the layers in all configurations to include: Dunlop Firm/Dunlop Medium/Dunlop Soft/Talalay Medium/Talalay Soft (not in this order). Nothing has worked for us as if it is softer we experience severe lower back pain and then if firmer severe hip and shoulder pain. We have decided Latex is not for us and wish we cold sell this bed.

We desperately need another mattress and we are thinking about the Nest Bed Alexander Signature Hybrid, Brentwood Oceana, Helix Midnight Luxe vs Sunset Luxe.

Questions: Are you familiar with the Dormia (purchased in 2007) we had slept on (wish I had kept the specs) and if so, what is closest to this bed?

What beds do you recommend for side sleepers? Any of the beds I listed?

I know that the only way to see what is right for me is to try it out for the best PPP, but I would like you to lead us in the right direction. I just want to sleep without pain. We both have arthritis and I have degenerative disk ds of my neck. Any advice is greatly appreciated. Thank you so much for this forum!
08 Feb 2018 17:34
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi juveman.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

No problem … I am used to "hijacked" threads … it may be like this for a little longer until we finish working on the back end on the new features.

I've been lost in this vast sea of online mattress reviews while slowly discovering how the business works and why I can't base my opinion on the online reviews. Your site is the first one that has zero bias so great job with that!


Thank you for your appreciative comments, we enjoy doing things the right way.

I've read everything and have narrowed it down to 2 choice and would love your input. I know and understand that it's subjective but I just need an experienced and knowledgeable opinion. I am 6ft tall and 260 lbs, I'm just a heavy guy and not really curvy as I play sports and lift weights. I'm mostly a back and stomach sleeper and have been sleeping on an Ikea Sultan mattress that I bought in 2007 which is sagging a lot (I was 285 lbs at my highest before losing weight).


Congratulations on your weight loss! Having only a few pounds less is much better all the way around … both sleepwise and healthwise. :)

High BMI presents special challenges and generally requires firmer materials (in the support layers especially). This could be firmer latex or innersprings (the type of support component would be a personal preference and in the right design either could be suitable) or even a zoned construction. Because the combination of your 35 BMI with prone and back sleeping positions the same overall guidelines would apply especially to you in order to achieve the needed PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) along with using high-quality durable materials that will maintain their feel and performance for longer periods of time are the way to make the best choices. Heavier people, in general, will need firmer and thicker comfort layers and firmer support layers than those who are lighter and because no materials will last as long with much higher weights the quality and durability of the materials and components is even more important than normal. I wouldn't "rule out" any types of mattress and base your choices on your own personal testing. Post #3 here has more information and suggestions about heavier weights that is worth reading. All in all, regardless of the materials you prefer I would make sure to use something using appropriate, firmer, and higher density foams.

Post #2 here has some generic guidelines for different body types and sleeping positions, and post #14 here has more about the benefits of thicker comfort layers and thicker mattresses (most of these are in the tutorial post but I thought I'd highlight them here as well.

Higher BMI ranges will need more durable materials and components in a mattress and in a BMI range of 30 or higher I would include any 1.8 lb polyfoam or 4 lb memory foam as a "lower quality/density" material (relative to a higher BMI only) and minimize their use to a total of "about an inch or so or less" in the mattress.

Polyurethane foam: If your mattress is one sided then I would look for 2.0 lb per cubic foot density or higher. If the mattress is two sided then I would use a minimum density of 1.8 lbs per cubic foot or higher.

Memory foam (or gel memory foam): If your mattress is one sided then I would make sure that any memory foam is at least 5 lb per cubic foot. If the mattress is two sided then I would use a minimum density of 4 lbs per cubic foot.

A mattress needs to have deeper layers that are "firm enough" to stop the heavier parts of your body from sinking down too far and make sure you sleep with your spine and joints in good alignment and upper layers that are thick and soft enough to "allow" any pressure points such as the hips and shoulders to sink down far enough to relieve pressure points in all your sleeping positions as well but "firm enough" and "soft enough" can vary widely from person to person.

There is also more about primary or "deep" support and secondary or "surface" support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the "roles" of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between "support" and "pressure relief" and "feel".

Novosbed (Firm option) vs Nestbedding (The Alexander Signature Hybrid) Would you suggest the medium or luxury firm Nestbedding?


You can read about the Novosbed product specifications here , Based upon the information you presented here, I would imagine that Nest would recommend their Luxury firm, but you’d definitely want to have a more detailed phone conversation with them. Both Nest Bedding and Novosbed are vetted members of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. Based on your conversation with them and your own careful assessment of suitability for your higher weight and prone sleeping position, I certainly wouldn't hesitate to purchase a mattress from either of them.

I prefer a firmer type bed with just a little sinkage


I would agree with you that the firmer options may be better for you perhaps more thickness to play with as well.
As this is such a personal choice and only you can feel what you feel on the mattress I could not tell you if tell if the memory foam choice would be appropriate and I would be concerned about sinking into it too deeply when on sleeping on your stomach.

The Nestbedding is 14" which to me gives it an advantage (yes I know they're different materials).


Generally speaking, the thickness of a mattress is a byproduct of design, but people that have much higher body weights or larger body types may choose more than the "average" thickness and may prefer the feel and extra adaptability of say 12" of latex. Thicker mattresses can also use firmer materials because thickness and softness are very related and work together. Thickness and softness work together and because thicker layers (or mattresses) can have a greater range of compression and are more "adaptable" ... it's also possible to use firmer top layers in a thicker mattress and still have good pressure relief because of the greater range of compression of the thicker mattress which can create a mattress with a firmer "surface feel" but that still provides good pressure relief and adapts well to the body contours.


Hopefully, this gives you enough information to help with your research.
I would be interested to hear back from you to learn what you decided and I or any other Expert Member of the site would be glad assist you with any questions that you may have.

Phoenix.
24 Nov 2017 15:38
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi theGovment,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

found this particular thread as I was running searches on my last couple mattress picks, which are the Nest Alexander Signature Medium and the Novosbed Medium.


The Nest Bedding Alexander Signature Medium uses:
1” polyfoam quilted to cover
2.5” 4 lb gel memory foam
1” 4 lb memory foam
2” 1.8 lb ventilated SmartFlow polyfoam
8” 1.8 lb polyfoam core.

The Novosbed Medium uses:
2” 5 lb AirFlow memory foam
2” 5 lb memory foam
7” 1.8 lb polyfoam core

The good news is that both of these products do use good quality materials, and for those of a more “moderate” BMI range they would be appropriate items. And as you may already be aware, both Novosbed and Nest Bedding are members of this site which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.

As for the indecision between the two, the Alaxander really addresses the issue of sleeping hot on many fronts (phase-change cover that's also quilted to give space/breathability above the memory foam layers, gel memory foam, and even the air-flow foam further down), and I really love that because sleeping hot is my one and only reservation with upgrading to memory foam.


As I posted in an earlier reply in this thread, both items use similar amounts of memory foam, with the Novosbed having their layers closer to the surface (the Nest Bedding has the 1.5”quilt layer). It's not really possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on sleeping temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials ... there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

Regarding cooling memory foam claims, you can read more about phase change materials in post #9 here and at the end of post #4 here ) and you can read more about the various different types of gel foams in post #2 here . In general terms gel foams will tend to have a temporary effect on temperature while you are first going to sleep until temperatures equalize but have less effect on temperature regulation throughout the course of the night.

However, their foam is also lower density (4lb) and looks like it gives up some of that true memory foam feel for springyness/airyness (only have been able to watch videos, so huge grain of salt)). Meanwhile, the Novosbed uses higher density foam (5lb), and in fact it's the highest density that I was able to find among any of the mid-price online manufacturers, and based on the videos I have been able to find/watch, it's response/look/feel is the closest I've seen to my own testing of the tempur-pedic mattresses I have available to try at the local shops. I also absolutely love the concept of the comfort plus option, to tweak the firmness of the mattress if we find it too had/soft.


I think that most people would describe both of these mattresses as having a “memory foam feel”, but of course until you sampled them only you would be able to determine if you had an affinity for the feel of one versus the other. The Novosbed does have the memory foam directly beneath the surface, where the Nest Bedding places a small amount of polyfoam quilted to the covering.

Yet the Novosbed doesn't seem to address the issue of sleeping hot as thoroughly - the top layer of foam is perforated, but aside from that, it's just memory foam. The awesome customer service rep I talked to at Novosbed about the concern of sleeping hot reassured me that I should be fine, and if I do sleep hot that a wool mattress protector (St. Dormeir) would likely solve the problem... Still, I'd really love for the heat issue to be addressed better in the design of the mattress, without the potential need for aftermarket add-ons.... But then again, "sleeping hot" on these newer memory foams may just be a boogeyman that won't really apply to me..


The perforated memory foam in the upper layer of the Novosbed allows for quite a bit more airflow that the same piece of foam without perforations, so that definitely can assist with thermoregulation. Again, you’d want to see my links listed previously about the effect of gels and phase change materials in memory foam. And you are correct, you may not be impacted by either product regarding temperature.

Anyway, Just thought I'd chime in as someone else who had reached the conclusion that it's gonna be the Novosbed or the Alexander Signature. I'll be sure to stop back in to follow up on which I choose and how it goes.


I’ll be interested in learning what you ultimately decide to do, or if you have more specific questions.

Phoenix
24 Nov 2017 13:16
  • theGovment
  • theGovment's Avatar
Hello all, and firstly since this is my first post, I want to thank all those who contribute to this site/forum for creating such an informative and helpful place to sort through the mountains of information/disinformation that's out there.

I found this particular thread as I was running searches on my last couple mattress picks, which are the Nest Alexander Signature Medium and the Novosbed Medium. I'ts been a long journey since I started researching mattresses and nearly bought the first bed-in-a-box I saw with glitsy marketing materials about super cooling comfort phase change yatta-yatta etc..., to now where I have fully researched the different mattress types, tested the types at a local mattress store to get an idea for feel/firmness etc, and then further researched mattresses & companies that might have what I want. After it all, I ultimately decided I wanted a true memory foam mattress, and from what I can gather, these two are likely hands down a couple of the best on the market (and available for online purchase) in the ~$1k price range.

I have been hand-wringing and going back and forth and can't seem to make up my mind. For me, it really comes down to the fact that these two mattresses utilize the most (thickest layers) of the highest density (4-5lb) memory foam of any I've been able to find that also do a sleep-trail and ship for "free" (bed-in-box model), AND are in the ~$1k price range. This was really important to me because I've tested and like the "high-end" $4k memory foam beds that are available for laying on at the local mattress stores, and I REALLY like the feel and am hoping to replicate that.

As for the indecision between the two, the Alaxander really addresses the issue of sleeping hot on many fronts (phase-change cover that's also quilted to give space/breathability above the memory foam layers, gel memory foam, and even the air-flow foam further down), and I really love that because sleeping hot is my one and only reservation with upgrading to memory foam. However, their foam is also lower density (4lb) and looks like it gives up some of that true memory foam feel for springyness/airyness (only have been able to watch videos, so huge grain of salt)). Meanwhile, the Novosbed uses higher density foam (5lb), and in fact it's the highest density that I was able to find among any of the mid-price online manufacturers, and based on the videos I have been able to find/watch, it's response/look/feel is the closest I've seen to my own testing of the tempur-pedic mattresses I have available to try at the local shops. I also absolutely love the concept of the comfort plus option, to tweak the firmness of the mattress if we find it too had/soft. Yet the Novosbed doesn't seem to address the issue of sleeping hot as thoroughly - the top layer of foam is perforated, but aside from that, it's just memory foam. The awesome customer service rep I talked to at Novosbed about the concern of sleeping hot reassured me that I should be fine, and if I do sleep hot that a wool mattress protector (St. Dormeir) would likely solve the problem... Still, I'd really love for the heat issue to be addressed better in the design of the mattress, without the potential need for aftermarket add-ons.... But then again, "sleeping hot" on these newer memory foams may just be a boogeyman that won't really apply to me..

Anyway, Just thought I'd chime in as someone else who had reached the conclusion that it's gonna be the Novosbed or the Alexander Signature. I'll be sure to stop back in to follow up on which I choose and how it goes.

In the meantime, I know there's no way to further help me in this decision, but if anyone has experience with these 2 mattresses and can confirm/refute the various conclusions/assumptions/concerns I've brought up regarding the pros/cons of these and/or how they might feel, it might be super helpful!
18 Nov 2017 08:48
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi santamonicagal,

Thank you very much, Phoenix, for your reply and feedback, and please excuse my delay in replying.


You’re very welcome, and no worries!

You're right about Aireloom not being very transparent with their product information. I called the company direct and their answer was "we don't want to give out our "secret recipe". So disappointing. Then, I had the salesperson at the mattress store contact his Aireloom rep and again, no answer I didn't already know from what's on the description card in the showroom.


Unfortunately this is very common in the mattress industry. While there are certain specifications that I would consider to be legitimately “proprietary” and more comfort specs (ILD, for example), foam density would be one thing that a consumer would need in order to evaluate the durability/quality of componentry of polyfoam or memory foam within a mattress.

The mattress is an ultra firm Atlantic Dream that we were considering and it's been in their distribution center as an unused return because as the salesperson tells me, "it was ordered but never delivered because the customer changed their minds...and this is considered "dead stock" he tells me. I have to imagine that if a salesperson says it's never been used, that better be true, correct?


I would take them at their word, unless you had a specific reason to doubt them. It very well could be a cancelled order. The only thing that we can conclude about this mattress is that it uses a pocketed innerspring unit (which is rarely the weak link within a mattress), it uses a layer of blended latex from Talalay Global (but we don't know the thickness of that layer - but it would be a good quality material), and that it is tufted, which can be good for helping to increase durability.

It's a good deal at $2175 if it is indeed brand new. But the catch is, after 100 days if we don't like it, there are no returns only exchanges so we'd have to commit to finding something in that store and couldn't go elsewhere.


While the price may be reduced compared to their usual selling price, I’d still advise caution when you’re purchasing something without knowing the makeup of the materials within the mattress.

I noticed Nest beds are on your member list and checked them out. I liked the Alexander Signature firm best. Love that they offer a money back refund if after 100 days we don't like it. Sounds like there's very little risk with Nest. Just am unsure about buying a box bed but see reviews are very good so that may be a good option for us before committing to another store.


Yes, Nest Bedding it a site member here, which means that I think highly of them. Like many (primarily) online companies, they do offer good options for returns/exchanges. And while I know there are many reviews online for these various brands, I’ll recommend that you focus primarily upon the componentry within the mattress (using the links I provided in my previous reply), as that will give you a better chance at choosing something that can provide you a durable comfort life (combined with a detailed phone conversation with any manufacturer you’re considering to assist you in selecting an appropriate product), more than someone else’s review that would have very little meaningful relevance as to what may or may not be appropriate for you personally. Were you considering the Alexander Signature Hybrid (the one with the springs in it) or the Alexander Signature Series (the one that uses a polyfoam core)?

Phoenix
17 Nov 2017 14:06
  • santamonicagal
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Thank you very much, Phoenix, for your reply and feedback, and please excuse my delay in replying.

You're right about Aireloom not being very transparent with their product information. I called the company direct and their answer was "we don't want to give out our "secret recipe". So disappointing. Then, I had the salesperson at the mattress store contact his Aireloom rep and again, no answer I didn't already know from what's on the description card in the showroom.

The mattress is an ultra firm Atlantic Dream that we were considering and it's been in their distribution center as an unused return because as the salesperson tells me, "it was ordered but never delivered because the customer changed their minds...and this is considered "dead stock" he tells me. I have to imagine that if a salesperson says it's never been used, that better be true, correct?

It's a good deal at $2175 if it is indeed brand new. But the catch is, after 100 days if we don't like it, there are no returns only exchanges so we'd have to commit to finding something in that store and couldn't go elsewhere.

I noticed Nest beds are on your member list and checked them out. I liked the Alexander Signature firm best. Love that they offer a money back refund if after 100 days we don't like it. Sounds like there's very little risk with Nest. Just am unsure about buying a box bed but see reviews are very good so that may be a good option for us before committing to another store.

Best,
Janel
30 Jul 2017 16:01
  • potpot
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I just wanted to post about our journey, as I read a lot of the posts and reviews on this forum while searching for our bed and found them interesting and helpful.

About my background:
I'm about 5'9" 185 and my wife is 5'6" and 135. Both of us are 75% side sleepers / 25% back sleepers.
My wife and I slept on a Simmons Beautyrest innerspring for many years -- I loved it, but my wife did not. Of course - I used to be able to sleep comfortably anywhere, which has changed as I've gotten older, so I don't know how I would feel about the bed now.
We switched to a Nest Bedding Alexander Signature (memory foam) medium-firmness bed and found the opposite to be true -- my wife liked it, but I just could not get comfortable. I slept on that bed for two years and always woke up with back stiffness and pain. It was super-comfortable for the first 30 minutes, but my hips sunk in too much and there just wasn't enough support.
Re: foundation - we put all our mattresses on the floor, so there's no issue with the foundation affecting the support.

So after doing a great deal of reading, we took the leap and bought the Sleep EZ 13" all-latex bed. We tried a handful of latex beds prior to this, but it was hard to find a lot of good latex bed stores in our region and we didn't have the time to drive super-far, so we just took the plunge. I figured that there were so many customizable options (especially with 4 layers of latex on each side), that we should be able to figure out what our optimal combinations were. We've been sleeping on it now for a couple weeks. Here are some initial conclusions:

1) It is actually quite labor-intensive to re-stack all the latex mattresses. I am someone who will typically try out combinations ad nauseum to ensure I've perfectly optimized everything, but stacking and re-stacking 8 half-king size latex pads by yourself is very tiring! If my wife were not pregnant and could help me, this may be easier, but doing it by myself in my small-ish bedroom where there isn't much space to lay everything out, I am typically sweating and have an aching back by the time I'm done. So in my mind, I'd expected I would be able to try out all the different combinations to test which one I'd like best. In reality, I'm probably going to run out of steam soon.

2. One thing I had not expected is that the edge support is quite poor. The best way to mitigate this appears to be to make sure that your layers are all stacked perfectly on top of each other and that they go right up to the very edge of the mattress cover so there's no wiggle-room. In practice though, this seems very difficult to do perfectly and to do on all the edges ... and even if it's done perfectly, the outside 3-4 inches around the perimeter of the bed is quite a bit softer than the rest of the bed. My wife has complained that if she gets close to the edge, she feels like she's just going to roll right off, and that our functional bed-space is less than it was with the Alexander Signature.

3. We both love some plushness in our beds - we've typically liked about "medium"-firmness, and if it weren't for my hips sinking in when I'm on my back, I personally would love to sleep on a very soft bed -- but we've been surprised at how we have actually liked the firmer setups in latex.

Originally, on my side, I had gotten Soft Talalay / Soft-medium Talalay (ILD 25) / Medium Talalay / Firm Talalay, and on her side, we'd gotten Soft Talalay / Soft-medium Dunlop (ILD 25) / Medium Dunlop / Firm Dunlop.

However, we've discovered that any setup with Soft Talalay, Soft-medium Talalay, or Medium Talalay on the top two layers has been too soft for us - it almost has a "waterbed" or air-mattress feel and your back sinks right in. To take Phoenix's analogy, it's as if you're lying on a bed of angel food cake (as opposed to the denser feel of pound cake, which would describe the feeling of dunlop), or trying to fall asleep on a marshmellow that caves in when you lie on it. This was surprising to me - as after reading lots of reviews and talking to latex experts (and doing some 5-minute tests on beds in-store), I had expected to prefer the Talalay.

I was contemplating just returning all the Talalay except for the Soft top layers and switching both of us to all-dunlop, when as a last-gasp attempt to confirm Talalay was not for me, I tried putting (top->bottom) Soft Talalay => Firm Talalay => Medium Dunlop => Medium-soft Dunlop.

And yay! It's only been one night for me so I need to see how my body adjusts, but in terms of comfort, I love the feeling! The soft Talalay over Firm Talalay over Dunlop provides some of the buoyancy of Talalay but I don't sink into it like I'm trying to sleep on a marshmellow.

My wife right now is on Soft Talalay => Firm Dunlop => Medium Talalay => Medium-soft Talalay, and she thinks it's fine. The combinations she seems to favor are Soft Talalay over either Medium or Firm Dunlop. To be honest - she does not yet love the feeling of latex - she complains that it feels more "mushy" rather than "soft". My impression is that she just really dislikes the feeling of Talalay, so I am considering switching her back to Soft Talalay => S-M Dunlop => M Dunlop => F Dunlop, as she did not try that one for very long.

Anyway - if anyone has any suggestions on which direction we should try adjusting next, I would love any additional guidance. I think it's a little strange right now that we've both got our firm layers near the top, and then the layers become progressively softer below. It makes me think that we should be swapping out those medium-soft layers for firms or at least mediums, so if the beds get any softer over the next couple years, we can try to adjust a little bit. Also - if we have a firm layer as our second layer - how much does it matter what's below? Like if you have firm dunlop as your second layer, will you be able to tell the difference between having medium talalay vs. medium dunlop as your third layer?

This has been an interesting journey -- but I feel like we're getting closer and closer to finding our ideal bed! Thanks for your thoughts and for sharing your experiences!

The versions we've tried are (top => bottom):
S-T / 25-T / M-T / F-T (too soft for both of us),
S-T / 25-D / M-D / F-D (maybe worth trying again)
S-T / 25-D / F-T / M-T (too soft)
S-T / 25-T / M-D / F-D (too soft)
S-T / M-T / F-D / 25-T (too soft)
S-T / M-D / F-T / 25-D (this one seemed to work for my wife)
S-T / F-D / M-T / 25-T (works for my wife)
S-T / F-T / M-D / 25-D (the first one I liked)
15 Feb 2017 16:34
  • phoenix
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Hi Joe Cool,

Our final two changed - still Nest's Alexander medium, but we're also considering the Novosbed medium. I'm leaning towards the Alexander, since it seems so well made and Joe from Nest Bedding is so personally responsive to all questions. However, Novosbed has a few business advantages, such as a longer test period, their comfort+ adjustment system, their foundation is returnable (with a 20% restocking fee), and a white glove delivery option.

I’m happy that Joe has been able to answer your questions for you in a timely manner. The Novosbed does off 20 more days for their return policy, and the comfort+ system is a unique after-the-purchase customization option, and the White Glove delivery (at an extra fee) will have them bring your compressed mattress into your room, cut I open, and cart away the packaging materials. All things to consider as part of your personal value equation .

But I'm curious if in your wisdom about the technology of both, there is something else in terms of heat retention, motion transfer, edge support, and general support for a pair of light combination sleepers (mostly side, some back) that you think should, or could, sway our decision between these two beds. I'm not asking about feel, since it's clear that's subjective, but I guess anything in the form of a quick comparative take that would help orient us in choosing between these two seemingly wonderful alternatives.

You are correct that these would all be subjective things that can only be best analyzed through your own careful personal testing.

Regarding temperature, both items use similar amounts of memory foam, with the Novosbed having their layers closer to the surface (the Nest Bedding has the 1.5”quilt layer). It's not really possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on sleeping temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials ... there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

As for edge reinforcement, neither product has a “specific” edge reinforcement system, instead relying upon the polyfoam core to assist with that. Both models have similar layers of comfort materials to compress on top of the polyfoam cores, so again this would be subjective in determination if you liked one versus the other. There are some comments about edge support with foam mattresses in post #2 here and the posts it links to.

Both mattresses use high quality materials that would not be cause for concern for providing enough support for someone in a moderate BMI range such as yours.

The good news here is that you’re choosing between two items using good quality materials and each has a good return policy, so in the end it comes down to making a decision and determining through your own personal testing if the item is a good fit for you.

I’ll be interested in learning what final choice (if any) that you make.

Phoenix
31 Jan 2017 13:56
  • phoenix
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Hi djb,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

So here's my deal... I like cloud like mattress, but one that has a fast response to come back to shape. This thought had me go to Brooklyn Bedding's BME - Soft. My only concern is that will it be too bouncy or not cozy enough being that it's latex?

The first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person tor anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" or “cozy enough” for you in terms of "comfort" or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or if you can't test a mattress in person then your own personal sleeping experience (see post #2 here ).

The Brooklyn Bedding Best Mattress ever (they are site members here, which means that I think highly of them) does use high quality and durable materials, and latex is certainly a more buoyant material than memory foam or most polyfoams. Unfortunately, nobody has a crystal ball that can predict if you will like the comfort that this product offers, and I would be very skeptical of anyone who claims that they can predict this for you.

The only way to know for certain whether any specific combination of materials will be suitable for you or which ones you tend to prefer will be based on your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial ) or your own personal sleeping experience because different people with different body types, sleeping styles, sensitivities, and circumstances can have very different experiences or opinions about whether the same mattress provides "enough" comfort for their own personal preference.

Next, I was able to visit Nest's store in NYC. (I'm from NJ) I really did like their Love & Sleep Mattress mattress a lot. IT seemed to be just what I am looking for except that it maybe could be a touch softer for my preference, and the low price had me concerned about quality.
While at Nest, I also like all the Alexander beds, both Hybrid and Signature, all in Medium... only concerns were that maybe the slow response rate, maybe sleeping hot.

The Energex foam in the Love & Sleep is hole-punched for breathability, and is a high quality and high performance polyfoam that has some of the properties of memory foam without the temperature sensitivity and slow response. There are no lower quality materials or weak links in this mattress for those that are in more average weight ranges although I would add a caution for those that are in higher weight ranges (200s or higher because of the 1.8 lb polyfoam core). This mattress is geared more toward a value price point, with 2”-3” of comfort layers in the mattress.

The Alexander Signature in medium uses a total of 5” of different memory foam in the upper layers, with 1.5” in the top quilt panel. This certainly would have a bit more of a typical “memory foam” feel and be a bit less responsive. The Alexander Signature Hybrid also uses memory foam in the upper layers of the mattress but not as much as the Signature Series. While I can describe “what” is on the inside, nothing can replace your own personal testing that you did in the showroom and the opinions you derived from that. As you may be aware, Nest Bedding is also a site member here an I think highly of them as well.

I was advised to check out Layla, and it seems like a good option, but the soft may be too soft? Maybe a slow response?

This is a two-sided memory foam mattress, so it would tend to be slower in responding. It uses 3” of 3 lb. copper infused memory foam on the “soft” side, a 6” convoluted 1.8 lb polyfoam core, and a 1” bottom layer of 3 lb copper infused memory foam on the “firm” side. The 3 lb memory foam is a lower density than I would recommend so I would advise caution with this product.

If anyone know of a mattress similar to the Love and Sleep's Energex foam top layer and that would be a smidge softer, please advise!

Energex is one of the newer generation of what I call “high performance polyfoams”, such as Activus, Spring-Tex, Avena, Futuratex and some of the FOM products. There is more information about these foams and their characteristics in post #2 here . If you like the feel of these foams, you may wish to seek out products using them in the upper layer of their mattresses. Post #2 in this thread lists some of the “simplified choice” mattresses, and some of these do use these high performance foams in their upper layer. While different combinations of different types of foam materials with different properties in the comfort layers of a mattress will combine the properties and "feel" of both materials to different degrees depending on the specific materials, layer thickness, and properties of each material, it is the properties of materials and components that are closer to the top surface of a mattress will tend to have a bigger effect on the overall "feel" of a mattress than materials that are deeper in the mattress.

Overall, I would recommend that you do a bit of reading, and the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly help you know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).

You can also look online and use the experience and expertise of the members listed in post #21 here who are all very experienced and knowledgeable and specialize in providing the type of help and guidance on the phone that can help you make good choices. There are a wide range of options included in the choices.

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc.) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences or to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else.

A good online retailer or manufacturer will generally make suggestions that they honestly believe have the best chance of success based on the information you provide them when you talk to them on the phone because this is in both your own and their best interests but again ... at the end of the day the only way to know for certain whether any specific mattress is a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience so if you can't test a specific mattress in person then the options you have available after a purchase to either exchange the mattress or individual layers or components or return the mattress for a refund (and any costs involved) would generally become a more important part of your personal value equation just in case a mattress you purchase doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for.

Phoenix
20 Sep 2016 09:09
  • phoenix
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Hi Alsabrook,

It sounds like you may need to "reset" how you are looking for a mattress and there will be a lot of information in this reply and you will have some reading to do before you continue your search.

While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but just in case you haven't read it yet ... the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else or whether it will be a good "match" in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress ... outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality and less durable materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (along with the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with avoiding any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

Unlike the other major brands ... for the most part Tempurpedic uses good quality materials in their mattresses but there are certainly other local and online options that would be better quality/value choices than Tempurpedic which tend to be significantly overpriced compared to other memory foam mattresses that use similar quality/density materials that may be just as suitable, just as durable, and better "value" choices (see post #2 here ). With Tempurpedic you are paying a significant premium for the name on the label which has little to nothing to do with the quality and durability of the materials or how well you will sleep on a mattress.

Since your BMI is probably over 30 there is more information in post #3 here and the posts it links to that would be helpful for those that are in higher weight ranges or have a higher BMI and you would need to make sure that the materials and components in your mattress meet the durability guidelines I linked earlier in this reply relative to your BMI range.

While the process of how to choose a mattress would involve the same steps that are listed in the mattress shopping tutorial ... most people in higher weight ranges or that have a higher BMI will generally need or prefer firmer mattresses (firmer materials will feel softer because you will sink into them more) and materials and components that are higher quality and more durable than those that are in lower weight or BMI ranges (the materials and components in a mattress will soften and break down faster for those in higher weight ranges than they will for someone that is in a lower weight range that doesn't compress the mattress as much). I would be particularly cautious about mattresses that use more than "about an inch or so" of memory foam that is less than about 5 lb density or polyfoam that is less than about 2 lb density ... particularly in the upper layers of the mattress (which are usually the weakest link in terms of the durability and useful life of a mattress).

The 3 online options I have found are the Nest Alexander Soft, the Sealy Cocoon Chill Soft, and the Christeli Briella.


While the Nest Alexander would be a good quality/value choice for many people ... I would avoid it in your weight/BMI range because the the foam layers are a lower density than I would suggest in your weight/BMI range. I would also be careful with a soft choice because with your higher weight there would be a much higher risk that you will end up sleeping out of alignment over the course of the night and good spinal alignment is the single most important factor in how well your body will be able to rest and recover over the course of the night.

Like all the major brands ... I would also avoid the Sealy Cocoon because they don't disclose the density of the foam in their mattress but even if they did they would also be lower density than I would suggest for your body weight.

The Christeli mattresses use foam densities that would be suitable for your weight/BMI range and there are no lower quality materials or weak links in their mattresses relative to your BMI but the only way to know for certain how well you will sleep on any mattress that you haven't tried in person will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience when you sleep on it so I would keep in mind that Christeli only offers a 50 day exchange policy that allows you to make a single exchange for one of their other mattresses and unlike many other online choices they don't offer the option to return the mattress for a refund if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for.

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Every good online retailer or manufacturer will generally make suggestions that they honestly believe have the best chance of success based on the information you provide them when you talk to them on the phone because this is in both your own and their best interests but again ... at the end of the day the only way to know for certain whether any specific mattress is a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience so if you can't test a specific mattress in person then the options you have available after a purchase to either exchange the mattress or individual layers or components or return the mattress for a refund (and any costs involved) would generally become a more important part of your personal value equation just in case a mattress you purchase doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for.

The two prerequisites we have are COOL and SOFT!


While it's not possible to quantify or predict the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials ... there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

In very general terms ... the layers and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture wicking, and temperature regulation than layers and components that are further away from your skin and softer mattresses will tend to be more "insulating" and tend to sleep warmer than firmer mattresses. Memory foam or gel memory foam will also tend to sleep warmer than other types of foam materials such as polyfoam and latex (which in general is the most breathable and temperature neutral of the foam materials).

The "hand feel" of most gel memory foams will be noticeably cooler than regular memory foam and they can provide some cooling benefits when you first go to sleep at night but temperatures will tend to equalize over time at which point the insulating properties of the memory foam will become dominant. The amount and type of gel in the foam can affect whether the temperature benefits will last longer or shorter and the cell structure and amount of airflow through foam will also play a very significant role in reducing heat buildup in the material but in general terms ... gel memory foam can sleep a little cooler than regular memory foam when you are first going to sleep at night but in most cases the benefits of the gel tend to be temporary and don't normally last over the course of the night.

If you are also interested in local options that you can test in person before a purchase then if you let me know your city or zip code I'd be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in your area.

In its simplest form ... choosing the "best possible" mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then ...

1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP ... and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or "fine tune" the mattress and any costs involved if you can't test a mattress in person or aren't confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight/BMI range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress (see the durability guidelines here ).

3. Comparing your finalists for "value" based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
31 Aug 2016 14:28
  • BreakAes
  • BreakAes's Avatar
Hi all,

I plan to buy a mattress very soon. I sent this email out to some review bloggers out there:

"I'm wondering if you can help me choose a mattress. I've spoken with Sakura from Nest Bedding so far, and I've been emailing some other mattress reviewers who blog for advice.

So a little information about me; I'm about 5' 9.5", and currently about 170 pounds although my target weight is probably about 160-165.

I got a spinal cord injury a year ago, and had 2 surgeries, so I have plates in my neck.

Before the injury, I used to sleep halfway between my side and my stomach with the knee that was on top up and bent, and the lower leg straight, resting on a body pillow, with my arm upwards under my head and a pillow. This was initially the most comfortable position for me, and I felt like I needed it to sleep, but my clavicle would always start hurting after awhile. That would cause me to wake up, and I'd have to turn over. I don't know if any mattress could resolve this issue, but it would be really cool if I could find one that did.

After the injury, at least for the meantime, I have to sleep on my side. But I also have some kind of injury or something in my left hip, so when sleeping on the uncomfortable Sealy Posturpedic firm bed I currently have, my left hip starts hurting. I have to switch sides back and forth throughout the night, because in addition to my left hip, my shoulder starts hurting, probably due to the firmness of the bed. It's awkward, because for some reason my left shoulder is more comfortable when laying on my left side, but then I have the hip issue. Whereas on my right side, my shoulder is more uncomfortable, but my hip on the right side doesn't get pain like the other one. I'm thinking surely having the right mattress can help with these issues.

Sakura suggested either the Alexander Hybrid, or the regular Alexander with the medium firmness. If I had to choose between the two, I think I'd try the hybrid first. But I wanted to get your opinion since you've reviewed so many mattresses.

I'm also planning to get a Krypton mattress protector, since it may offer the best protection against liquids. And I thought about getting Bedgear sheets, but Sakura said user feedback was better on the Malouf Woven Tencel sheets.

I currently have a king size Nest Easy Breather pillow with a Bedgear pillow protector, and I wonder if there's a better pillow protector out there. Even though it's made out of Dri-Tec, I find it gets hot. And it's itchy, so for now I put a cotton sheet around it, which doesn't help all that much with the temperature. I thought about trying the Krypton pillow protector if a Tencel pillow cover doesn't solve the heat issue. After I find the right mattress, I'll probably use the king Easy Breather as a body pillow, and get a queen Easy Breather for my head.

In terms of mattress size, I want a California King in case I'm able to sleep like I used to before this spinal cord injury.

Based on all this information, do you have a sense of which mattress you think might be the best for me? I'm also wondering about Luxi, Loom and Leaf, Brooklyn Bedding, Leesa etc etc. I know opinions vary greatly based on individual experience, and it makes it hard to sort through all the information."


So far I've been pointed towards Luxi by Ben who owns the Sleep Sherpa blog. Here's what he had to say: "I love the Alexander Hybrid but I think that ultimately the Luxi might be the best choice for you. The SBT layer on the Luxi will give you great pressure relief and sleep cooler than the Alexander. I agree that Malouf Tencel sheets will probably be better in the long run than bed gear. Here's my Luxi review: www.sleepsherpa.com/luxi-mattress-review/"


My response: "Thanks for your response and for the suggestion. I will definitely consider the Luxi, and call the company tomorrow. I was looking around for other reviews on their mattress, and like with all of them, I found some positive and negative reviews. For example, there's this quote from Derek with Sleepopolis, "I have tried the Luxi. While the concept of being able to switch out the firmness is a novel one, I just wasn’t a huge fan of the feel on any of the configurations. The foam in the mushroom-like design was just odd and I could never find a comfortable sleeping position." I'm wondering what your thoughts are on that. Does it just go back to "different strokes for different folks"?


And his response: "Luxi has since made improvements on the mattress since Derek reviewed it. I would definitely give it a try."


So I just tried to call Luxi to speak with a product specialist, and had to leave a message.

Based on all the information above, what other brands would you all suggest?

Thanks.
10 Jul 2016 18:45
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi SleeplessinDallas,

I'm sorry to hear that once again a mattress that you were very hopeful about didn't turn out to be as good a "match" for you as you hoped for over the longer term. The only "good" news that I can see is that you have always had some attraction to the Tempurpedic brand and perhaps your experience has helped you to realize that there is certainly no "magic" in the Tempurpedic name (see my earlier reply to you in post #2 here which I have often used as a reference post in my replies about Tempurpedic to many other forum members).

There is more information about some of the reasons that a mattress may feel different at home than it does in the store in post #39 here but outside of actual differences in the mattresses the ones that are most likely would be either be differences in the break in and adjustment period, the sheets and bedding or mattress protector you are using vs the mattress in the store which would be a "bare" mattress, or any differences in temperature or humidity either in your bedroom over time or compared to the temperature and humidity in the store (memory foam is sensitive to both temperature and humidity).

I was hoping you might be able to assist me in identifying some options with a similar construction or feel to the Flex Supreme Breeze? Some that have come to my attention are Leesa, Bear, voila, etc. I did very randomly lay on a Casper while at West Elm today & it was a bit too firm and not quite cozywith that Dunlop latex on the top. The Flex Supreme Breeze literally contours just enough and you literally wind up with this sort of weightless feeling


Just for reference ... the specs of the Tempurpedic Flex Supreme Breeze (from the Jordans webpage here which is the only site I know of that lists the specifics of their Tempurpedic mattresses) is as follows ...

Quilt: Tempur Breeze Cooling Cover with PCM

Comfort Layers:
2" Tempur-ES 4.0 LB density memory foam
1" Tempur-Climate 5.3 LB memory foam

Bottom Upholstery(below comfort layers):
2.5" 1.6LB Poly foam

Support System:
17 gauge twice tempured pocket coils ... Twin 840 coils, Full 1260 coils, Queen 1610 coils, King 2070 coils
Full perimeter foam encasement (foam density unknown)

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be very unlikely) then there really isn't a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don't normally try to "match" another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to "match" or "approximate" another one in terms of firmness or "feel" and PPP and/or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the "averages" of a larger group of people that have compared them (different people may have very different opinions about how two mattresses compare) ... the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they "feel" or in terms of firmness or PPP (regardless of anyone else's opinions of how they compare which may be different from your own) would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.

Off the top of my head I also don't know of any other manufacturer that makes a mattress that they specifically describe as being a reasonable approximation of the Tempurpedic Flex Supreme Breeze so if you are using it as your "target" or "reference point" then you would need to make comparisons with other mattresses based on some trial and error with your own careful testing of local mattresses or your own personal experience when you sleep on a mattress that you weren't able to test before a purchase.

If you are looking at online options that you can't test in person before a purchase then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

You could also look for mattresses that has "somewhat similar" layers and components with similar specs and similar properties and hope for the best but again it would be very unlikely that you would find another mattress with the same specs and even if you did some of the specs that they don't list may result in a mattress that has layers and components that "appear" to be similar but have a different feel or firmness level because of the many possible differences in specific materials and components that can't be predicted based on only knowing a few of the specs for each of the materials or components in the mattress.

I would also be very cautious about using a specific mattress as a "target" or "reference point" unless you are open to buying that specific mattress because it may not be the "best" match for you in the first place in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP compared to other mattresses that you haven't tried yet and you could end up excluding many other mattresses that may be similar (or even quite different) but may be a better choice for you in terms of PPP. In other words ... I would rate every mattress you consider against a common set of criteria based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you rather than rating them based on how similar they may be to your memory of another mattress that you tried and liked.

Phoenix
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