>
×

Advanced Search

Search by Keyword
×

Search Options

Find Posts from
Sort Results by
Search at a specific date
Jump to Result Number
Search in Categories
×

Search Results

Searched for: ultimate dreams 13 gel
04 Jan 2022 21:06
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi [email protected]

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :) Quite a mouthful of questions. ;)

What is the tangible difference between 'natural' and organic latex?

100% Natural Latex has is made with sap harvested from the rubber tree and has no Synthetic (SBR) latex content in it. Many companies are marketing latex as natural even though it may have some percentage of SBR in it. In today's market, unless you deal with a trusted retailer/manufacturer that describes its products accurately "natural" can mean almost anything to the point where by itself it has little meaning at all. When looking at natural rubber, you’d want to know both the type of latex they are using and the specific blend percentage of NR (natural rubber) and SBR (synthetic rubber) in the latex.
In addition to being made with 100% Natural latex, the Organic Latex is organically certified by a recognized entity such as Control Union which has the GOLS standards and certification. Such a certification ensures that not only the raw materials are organic but the methods of growing the rubber trees are organic, the raw materials/ingredients are of organic origin, the latex is processed in an organic production facility.

Here is an excerpt from the product requirement standards they provide on their site:
"The product shall contain a minimum of 95% certified natural rubber latex of its total weight of polymer content. A maximum of 5% of processing chemicals and/or filler content can be found in the final product, not including approved additional materials/accessories. The product shall not contain synthetic latex and/or non-organic natural rubber latex. The status of the polymer and filler percentage must be verified via content analysis test(s)"
2022 from documents Control Union site


Generally, many people that are looking for "organic" materials are often just looking for materials that they can have confidence are "safe". An organic certification has little to nothing to do with the quality or performance of a product (it's virtually identical to the same material that doesn't have an organic certification) even though it adds to the cost of a product.

What is the tangible difference between dunlop and talay latex?

The choice between different types and blends of latex is more of a preference and budget choice rather than a "better/worse" choice. Any type or blend of latex is a durable material relative to other types of foam materials.
• Talalay in the same ILD as Dunlop will be less dense (will weigh less than Dunlop per cubic foot of material) because it has more air in it. This is the basis for the angel food cake vs the pound cake analogy.
• Talalay is also more open-celled than Dunlop and would be more breathable.
• Both Talalay and Dunlop are highly resilient but Talalay has greater resilience (a ball will bounce higher) and springs back more powerfully while Dunlop has less hysteresis (it absorbs less energy overall but it doesn't decompress as strongly).
• The biggest difference between them is what is called compression modulus. This is a measure of how quickly a foam gets firmer as it is compressed more. ILD is generally (but not always) a measure of how much weight it takes to compress a foam by 25% of its thickness. At compression depths less than this Dunlop will be softer (compress more with the same weight) while at compression depths more than this Dunlop will be firmer (compress less with the same weight). They have a different response curve in other words and since Dunlop gets firmer faster than Talalay ... even though the different response curves may cross at the 25% compression level ... beyond this Dunlop will not compress as much as Talalay which is why it is generally considered more supportive or "firmer". Another way to say this is that Dunlop starts off softer and then ends up (at compression levels more than 25%) firmer than Talalay.
• This is also part of the reason that Talalay is considered to be more "springy" or "lively" than Dunlop because you will generally sink in deeper which means there is more up and down "movement" or "ride" with Talalay and it springs back more strongly and quickly. This creates a different "feel" between the two materials and is also why Talalay is often considered to be more pressure relieving than Dunlop because it allows for a deeper cradle in the same ILD ... while Dunlop is considered to be more supportive because it doesn't compress as deeply with greater weight ... all else (including ILD) being equal of course. Some people will prefer the feel of one over another and because each has different firmness levels available ... one is not "necessarily" better than another in either pressure relief or support layers if the right layering or ILD is chosen for each ... but you may need to choose a softer ILD with Dunlop than with Talalay to get similar pressure relief in the comfort layers or a firmer Talalay vs Dunlop to get similar levels of support in the support layers. A "one-step" difference in ILD which would be about 4 - 5 ILD would be "in the range" for most people where they felt similar.

There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here and more about how Dunlop compares to Talalay in general in post #7 here but the best way to know which type or blend of latex you tend to prefer will be based on your own testing and/or your own personal experience.

. What is the best depth mattress for average build adults? 9 or 10inch?

The thickness of a mattress or the number of layers or the thickness of any individual layers inside it is really just a side effect of the design and the design goals of a mattress and is also only one of many variables that can affect the feel and performance of a mattress relative to any particular person and by itself isn't particularly meaningful. Both a 9” and a 10” can be suitable for a couple with the stats you provided.

. looking at ARIZONA MATTRESS COMPANY and SLEEP EZ... Are there any others I should consider? Is the price premium for organic latex 'worth it'? Is the price premium at sleep ez worth the extra few hundred dollars -- are we comparing apples to apples with each company?

Yes, there is always a premium to be paid on all the organically certified products as the companies providing them have to go through a costly and rigorous process of certification. Most people that are looking for a “heavily-certified” or an "organic" mattress or materials are usually concerned more with "safety" than whether the materials have an actual organic certification but they have come to believe that "organic" latex is somehow "safer" than latex that doesn't have an organic certification. Much of this can be based on some aggressive marketing about "organic" latex which implies that it's somehow "better" than non-organic latex. There is more information about the three different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and some of the benefits of organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different types of organic and safety certifications such as Oeko-tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold, C2C, and CertiPUR-US in post #2 here and more about some of the differences between organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and there are also some comments in post #42 here that can help you decide whether organic certifications are important to you for environmental, social, or personal reasons or whether a "safety" certification is enough.

. Is there a real difference in durability or feel with the approach of 3 separate layers with SLEEP EZ vs the AMP approach of one thinner layer and one larger bottom and middle layer??

To give a more detailed answer I’d need to know the construction of each of the mattresses you are considering, but generally, in terms of durability for an all latex mattress I would focus on the uppermost layer that undergoes the most mechanical stress that can become an issue of concern for higher BMI individuals. Other than this Latex is certainly a very durable material but I would also keep in mind that there are also other factors involved in the durability or useful life of a mattress outside of just the material itself (see post #4 here ) so while it's not realistic to expect every latex mattress to last 40 years for any specific person and it will depend on the specifics of the mattress, as a group they will certainly be more durable than any other foam materials.

. which company has the best experience post-sale? which company has higher quality latex or mattress cover?

Both companies you are considering are Trusted members of our site and also TMU mattress experts with their own dedicated forums[/url] where you can reach out directly to them. Both Arizona Premium Mattress and Sleep EZ provide an invaluable service to the TMU followers and hold their standards both in terms of quality/value products and service to consumers (before and after purchase). You’d need to run your finalist by criteria in your personal value equation to help you with your finalist.

Either way, you are in good hands with either of them.

Phoenix
11 Sep 2021 18:15
  • NikkiTMU
  • NikkiTMU's Avatar
Hi aalbert77.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :)

You may be surprised to know that cool + soft mattresses are not as difficult to find as you might think, and don't really contradict each other at all. All foam configurations can be as firm or firmer than innerspring mattresses/hybrids. As you mentioned, all foam configurations are less breathable and sleep a bit hotter than an innerspring model.

I've never heard of pocket coils being a culprit in the reduced air flow in a mattress. That's an interesting piece of information. Where did you learn that?

1) Where can I buy a Leggett & Pratt Coolflow innerspring? They have the softness of pocket coils with better airflow.


To clarify, just the spring unit? Or the spring unit already encased in a mattress?

2) How much hotter is the combi-zone than the CoolFlow?


This, like much of what contributes to sleeping hot or cool on a mattress, is not something I can quantify as we are two people with different definitions of what hot/cool sleep on a mattress feels like and, of course, I haven't slept on either of these units so I would be making pure assumptions. There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that you may be interested in perusing.

3) Which one is softer?


Coils aren't so much "soft" as they are "bouncy." Coil gauge by itself wouldn't be a reliable indicator of the firmness of the innerspring, although if all the other variables in two innersprings are identical such as coil number, coil shape, coil height, number of turns, coil diameter, coil arrangement, type of innerspring (linked or pocket coils), then a lower gauge innerspring with thicker wire will be firmer. The type and thickness of any padding above and below the innerspring and the specifics of the cover will also have a significant effect on how firm a mattress feels as well, and the innerspring is rarely the “weak link” within a mattress. You can read more about innersprings in this article here , and learn about the many variations and differences in the main types of innerspring units.

Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like "medium" for someone else or even "soft" for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they "rate" a mattress as well (see post #15 here ) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science. In other words ... the only reliable way to know whether a mattress will be "firm enough" or "soft enough" for you will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience.

A cool, soft mattress could take the form of a latex + innerspring hybrid, or an innerspring mattress using other natural fibers in the comfort layer. If sleeping hot is something you wish to avoid, I'd suggest steering clear of polyfoams, memory foam (even gel foam), and synthetic materials both in the comfort layers and mattress cover/encasement.

I hope this helps.
NikkiTMU
27 Aug 2021 12:28
  • bobby2478
  • bobby2478's Avatar

Hi TheSleeplessCat,

As I understand it, Talalay is an airier latex/foam that goes through a different finishing process than Dunlop which is a denser foam/latex.


This is exactly correct. Talalay in the same ILD as Dunlop will be less dense (will weigh less than Dunlop per cubic foot of material) because it has more air in it. This is the basis for the angel food cake vs the pound cake analogy.

Talalay is also more open celled than Dunlop and would be more breathable.

I understand that this makes Dunlop more resilient which in turn makes it more firm. Does this mean it offers greater support?


Resilience is a measure of how high a steel ball dropped on a material will bounce expressed as a percentage of it's original height. It is somewhat opposite to hysteresis which is how much energy it absorbs (called hysteresis). Both Talalay and Dunlop are highly resilient but Talalay has greater resilience (a ball will bounce higher) and springs back more powerfully while Dunlop has less hysteresis (it absorbs less energy overall but it doesn't decompress as strongly). The biggest difference between them is what is called compression modulus. This is a measure of how quickly a foam gets firmer as it is compressed more. ILD is generally (but not always) a measure of how much weight it takes to compress a foam by 25% of it's thickness. At compression depths less than this Dunlop will be softer (compress more with the same weight) while at compression depths more than this Dunlop will be firmer (compress less with the same weight). They have a different response curve in other words and since Dunlop gets firmer faster than Talalay ... even though the different response curves may cross at the 25% compression level ... beyond this Dunlop will not compress as much as Talalay which is why it is generally considered more supportive or "firmer". Another way to say this is that Dunlop starts off softer and then ends up (at compression levels more than 25%) firmer than Talalay.

This is also part of the reason that Talalay is considered to be more "springy" or "lively" than Dunlop because you will generally sink in deeper which means there is more up and down "movement" or "ride" with Talalay and it springs back more strongly and quickly. This creates a different "feel" between the two materials and is also why Talalay is often considered to be more pressure relieving than Dunlop because it allows for a deeper cradle in the same ILD ... while Dunlop is considered to be more supportive because it doesn't compress as deeply with greater weight ... all else (including ILD) being equal of course. Some people will prefer the feel of one over another and because each has different firmness levels available ... one is not "necessarily" better than another in either pressure relief or support layers if the right layering or ILD is chosen for each ... but you may need to choose a softer ILD with Dunlop than with Talalay to get similar pressure relief in the comfort layers or a firmer Talalay vs Dunlop to get similar levels of support in the support layers. A "one step" difference in ILD which would be about 4 - 5 ILD would be "in the range" for most people where they felt similar.

This video may also be helpful to give you some visual cues about the difference between them.

There is also more about the different types and blends of latex in this article and in post #6 here .

Don't forget that the layer you are choosing is the comfort layer and that the support layers or "deep support" of both use the same high-density polyfoam. The comfort layers have a primary role of pressure relief and only have a "secondary" support role which is to fill in the gaps in the body profile.

I know it's difficult to describe what is really a subjective preference but hopefully, this will help you "imagine" how each may feel without having direct comparative experience with both.

Phoenix

This was very helpful, thank you!

I'm looking into a few different options for latex mattress (including some trusted members such as flobeds) and had some general questions.

As we work to figure out what ILD we want in the various layers and potentially "zones" for our needs, I had a question in general about Dunlop vs Talalay. As I evaluate options I see there are basically the following:
  • All Dunlop (including Dunlop in top comfort layer)
  • All Talalay (including Talalay in top comfort layer)
  • Dunlop support and core layers with Talalay only in top comfort layer
  • Hybrid innerspring support and core layers with Dunlop only in top comfort layer
  • Hybrid innerspring support and core layers with Talalay only in top comfort layer

We basically need to determine whether we want all Dunlop (which is cheaper), all Talalay (more expensive), or a hybrid option of some sort with innerspring or Dunlop for support layer with Dunlop or Talalay in the comfort layer. In general having Dunlop or Innerspring support layer would bring the cost down and was wondering if there were any real downsides to this approach provided the ILD and firmness of each layer is appropriate for our sleep preferences and BMI?

I'm 6' 185 lbs and wife is 5'6" 120 lbs, I'm a combo side/back sleeper and spend more time on my back, she's a combo side/back sleeper and spends more time on her side. I've been having back pain due to our memory foam mattress didn't last as long as we were hoping and no longer providing proper support so am really placing a premium on proper support without being too firm while also looking at a very durable option that's likely to last 10 years or more (especially if we get into 3k+ price range).

With the different properties between Dunlop and Talalay I wasn't sure if it really matters whether the support layer is dunlop or talalay or innerspring provided we like the firmness and support the overall setup offers, and once we've tried out and decided whether we have a preference of dunlop or talalay for the comfort layer. My initial thought was to try and target talalay in the comfort layer with dunlop or innerspring in support layers.

Thanks for any advice you can offer.
18 Feb 2021 17:29
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi LNZ.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum. :)

It's always nice to hear that the resources and information we make available on The Mattress Underground have been useful in helping propel your mattress shopping decisions.

Thank you for sharing your mattress story and your stats. I am sorry to hear of your sciatica but I am happy to answer your questions as you move forward in searching for a supportive new mattress.

First off, this post about innersprings vs latex support cores in post #2 may better help you decide between a hybrid or an all-latex bed.

If I like the feeling of a softer mattress. Can I get away with a nice firm support core and then a medium soft comfort layer? Do I have to give up that soft feeling to get the support I need for my back?


One of the great benefits of latex is that even in the softer versions, it has a higher resilience and is more "supportive" than other foams, and will help support the more recessed areas of your body, such as the lumbar, that need "filling in" and are not in close contact with the firmer support layers underneath. So, in short, no! You do not have to sacrifice the softness/comfort and cradling effect to get the support you need to have a neutral spinal alignment.

Is a hybrid mattress going to sleep cooler than an all foam latex mattress?


Coils sleep cooler than an all-foam mattress as they allow for more airflow on all sides of the mattress than thick foam layers no matter how open-cell or breathable the comfort layers above the springs are. When air can move through a mattress, it traps less heat. This said the layers and components closer to the skin are the largest contributors responsible for the temperature build-up in any mattress. There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range. Latex itself is quite breathable and the most temperature neutral of all foams (including the new generation of gel foams).

I’d keep in mind that the firmness of a mattress and how much you sink into it can also affect sleeping temperature as well. While it's also not always possible to track down temperature regulation issues for any particular person on a specific mattress because there are so many variables involved (including your room temperature and humidity, your sheets and bedding and bedclothes, your mattress protector or any mattress pads you are using, and where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range) and some people can sleep warmer on mattresses that most people are generally fine with ... there is more about tracking mattress temperature regulation issues potential causes ~ Post #2 here (at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) and the posts it links to that may be helpful.

I want something that's going to be pretty durable as this is a high price item for us that requires saving up. We want something that will last but at the same time something that will give us the support & comfort we need.


You are definitely on the right track and it’s good to see that durability is one of your main criteria for selecting a mattress. Latex is certainly a very durable material but I would keep in mind that generally there are some other factors involved in the durability or useful life of a mattress outside of just the material itself (see post #4 here ) so while it's not realistic to expect every latex mattress to last 40 years for any specific person and it will depend on the specifics of the mattress, as a group they will certainly be more durable than any other foam materials.. There is more about the 3 most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your Mattress buying personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price, of course, and the options you have available after purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

Is an all latex foam mattress going to have poor edge support?


Because latex is so durable and also point elastic (conforms to the shape of the weight on top of it without having a significant effect on the area beside it) and because of its high compression modulus (the rate at which material gets firmer with deeper compression) ... for most people it doesn't normally require edge reinforcement for sleeping even for heavy people. This is particularly true if the support layers are firm enough for the person sleeping on the mattress.

Some design solutions for those where the perimeter support is an issue may include something called a "racetrack" perimeter where the outer few inches of the latex support core is surrounded with a much firmer latex. Which would be a very uncommon construction for latex) Typically “racetracks” are made of polyfoam which is a material prone to breaking down much faster than latex, especially in its lower density version. With latex because of its point elasticity though ... those who sit on the very outside edge of the unit (instead of sitting with their body weight more towards the middle of the mattress) or those who sleep with more concentrated weight on the outside few inches of their mattress may find themselves sinking down more than they like even though this isn't normally an issue when sleeping towards the mattress center.

In most cases though ... a latex support layer that is firm enough relative to body weight of the person sleeping on the mattress will be fine for most people. Has anyone had experience with Brentwood Home (not on the trusted list)? Luma Sleep?


As you already know, Luma Sleep is one of our Trusted members and I certainly think very highly of them and I believe they compete well with the best in the industry . They are very knowledgeable and skilled in finding a good comfort support match for most sleepers.

Brentwood Home has been discussed a few times in the forum. They tend to be relatively transparent with their mattress components. I would be sure that any mattress you are considering is within the Durability Guidelines . I recall this thread where I identified a few weak links in a specific Brentwood Home model. You may also find this Brentwood Home thread interesting. And, you can do a general forum search with the keyword "Brentwood Home" by clicking here .

I hope the above information helps you as you move forward. Please don't hesitate to ask any additional questions that you may have.

Phoenix
21 Jul 2019 08:09
  • Sensei
  • Sensei's Avatar
Hey DeAngelis,

Thanks for the post. This has always one of our great discussions on this forum over the years.

When I asked sleep EZ they recommend the first 2 layers to be Dunlap Firm then Medium for support and soft Talalay for the top portion. Would you agree?


It's not really for me to say, but the latex build that Sleep EZ is recommending is very common and has been successful for thousands of consumers over the years. Sleep EZ is without question a latex mattress expert and has been making and selling latex mattresses for many years.

With Sleep EZ I have the option of each layer and want to make the correct choice. Is Dunlap Latex equally as good as Talalay? if I went with 2 layers of talalay latex and 1 dunlop would I be reducing the support of the mattress?



You can read about the differences between Dunlop and Talalay in these two posts and some of the associated links, its a lot of info but it will really give you the background on these processes:


General response difference between Talalay and Dunlop

more info about Talalay and Dunlop latex foam

Thanks,
Sensei
20 Feb 2019 09:07
  • Sensei
  • Sensei's Avatar
Hey TheKdd,

Thanks or the post and let us know how the warranty issue turns out.

Hey, Sweet Dreams thank you so much for your help and perfect responses. I especially like your point about many warranties:

One thing to note regarding sagging as you're experiencing is that the warranty only covers impressions of 1.5" or greater, and that is measured with no weight on the mattress. Often as mattresses age they lose support but may not have a depression visible when not under any weight and that is generally considered unwarrantable. Also, make sure that your mattress is properly supported as described on the warranty page. Hope this helps and let us know how helpful they are in resolving your issue.


The warranty process is sometimes frustrating for many consumers. Thanks again.

Sensei
14 Feb 2019 14:47
  • Sweet Dreams
  • Sweet Dreams's Avatar
Glad to hear your description of the visible sagging, since sometimes the foam breaks down and just gets too soft over time which isn't considered a valid warranty issue. I expect that you'll hear back from them soon (and if not give them a call) and that it's likely you'll likely get a new replacement under warranty. I know that not being able to sleep well can be very frustrating and unhealthy so hopefully it will be resolved quickly for you!
14 Feb 2019 14:37
  • TheKdd
  • TheKdd's Avatar
Thank you so much for the quick response. I sent a message.

It’s definitely an inch and a half, more really,with no weight and I purchased the platform Chuck recommended at the time so hopefully they can help. I’m dying over here.

In the meantime I also purchased one for my daughter at the same time as mine and hers is still perfect (same platform) so can’t complain there.

Thanks again!
14 Feb 2019 04:50
  • Sweet Dreams
  • Sweet Dreams's Avatar
@TheKdd - The Ultimate Dreams line of mattresses still seem to be available, and the Dreamfoam Bedding company is a division of Brooklyn Bedding which is definitely still in business and known to be a reputable company. You should be able to contact DFB via phone, email, or their contact form which are all given here: www.dreamfoambedding.com/contact/ . You can see the details of their warranty here: www.dreamfoambedding.com/warranty/ . One thing to note regarding sagging as you're experiencing is that the warranty only covers impressions of 1.5" or greater, and that is measured with no weight on the mattress. Often as mattresses age they lose support but may not have a depression visible when not under any weight and that is generally considered unwarrantable. Also make sure that your mattress is properly supported as described on the warranty page. Hope this helps and let us know how helpful they are in resolving your issue.
14 Feb 2019 02:22
  • TheKdd
  • TheKdd's Avatar
Reviving a decently old thread...

So, we purchased this mattress a tiny bit over 5 years ago now and I have to say it was great while it lasted. In Sept of 2014, I was diagnosed after a rough episode with MS. The newer mattress definitely helped at the time.

Now however, the mattress has sagged so much that for me, who is already in constant pain, just can’t handle. It’s so bad I’ve considered sleeping on the floor. I wake up multiple times a night, have now relegated my poor husband to a sliver so I can attempt to sleep in the middle where there is a tiny bit of support left. Problem is it’s such a hill that it’s hard to even get there and in the night I end up rolling back into my hole, and it’s a HUGE hole.

I may even buy one of the cheapies on amazon just to get by until we have the money for something better.

There is a 10 year warranty for sagging, so I tried to contact the company through Amazon (at 4:45am not sleeping again) figuring it would provide my order number easily to them and it bounced back. I sent an email straight to the company and never heard back (but at least it didn’t bounce), and the old number I have just rings. I assume they aren’t in business anymore? I was hoping they could save me with another of this old model or even another cheapy they have sitting around, I could always throw a topper on it... but I guess they’re done?

If you know otherwise Phoenix please let me know. A lot of rough sleepless nights here right now. Also if you have any recommend for a decent cheapy on amazon that has a little support to get me by ONLY temporarily until I can refill the mattress coffers that would be great as well.

Thanks!
13 Jan 2019 02:20
  • 560andrising
  • 560andrising's Avatar
I have seen Dreamfoam's 13" mattress listed as having a 1.5-lb polyfoam base layer and a 1.8-lb polyfoam base layer in different threads on this site. I have even seen it listed as having both in the same thread. Is there any consensus as to which is accurate? I'm calling Dreamfoam on Monday but figured I'd post my question here as well. Thanks in advance for any help!

Edit:
Spoke to a rep from Dreamfoam a few minutes ago and confirmed that their specs have been updated, with their mattresses now containing lower densities. This seems to have become a trend in the industry. I'll list what I found out below.

Dreamfoam Sanctuary 13" (Formerly the Ultimate Dreams 13″ Gel Memory Foam Mattress)

3" 3.5-lb memory foam
2" 3.5-lb memory foam
2" 1.8-lb polyfoam transitional layer
6" 1.5-lb polyfoam base layer

Dreamfoam Sojourn 13" (Formerly the Ultimate Dreams Supreme 12″ Gel Memory Foam Mattress)

1.5" 3.5-lb memory foam
2.5" 3.5-lb memory foam
2" 1.8-lb polyfoam transitional layer
6" 1.5-lb polyfoam base layer

It looks like my attempt to avoid the Tempur-Pedic brand is coming to a conclusion. The value brands are lowering the density of their layers below the 5-lb and even the 4-lb level. Tempflow and Select-a-Bed, the two Relief-Mart brands, are both worthy contenders. But, like most of the smaller brands that have models comparable to the Tempur-Pedic brand, the return policies cost the buyer and it's tough to trial them in-store, depending on where you live. It seems easier to demo the Tempur-Pedic brand, and then buy a floor model if you're fortunate enough to find one and are able to trust what you feel and observe during proper in-store trials.

I will be sure to update the forum with my choice in a brand new post, in which I will also try to document my experience during the search for the ideal mattress for our household. There is still a chance that the Tempur-Pedic doesn't work out long-term but I think we are either going to go that route, get a new coil mattress from Texas Mattress Makers, or stick with what we have until we absolutely can't stand it. I appreciate all of the knowledge contained on this site and thank everyone for their contributions. Apologies for having bombarded multiple threads with my recent posts.
13 Jan 2019 02:06
  • 560andrising
  • 560andrising's Avatar

Thanks Phoenix :)
I have read the guidelines.
I cannot find a memory foam bed that meets the requirements and relieves pressure points. I just cannot sleep on a slab.

Big box stores use low quality materials but it seems most bed in a box make beds lower in quality also . For those of us with a higher bmi that is.

I cannot believe there is no bed for me. I am not the size of a house this is ridiculous :(


This entire post is so spot-on! It's frustrating and since I am in the lower-200's, I am starting to let go of the idea of the need for higher foam density. I was recently 210 pounds anyway, but moving across the country and skipping workouts for six months caused a ten pound increase. If I'm back down to 200-210 pounds, I'm not sure if it would be worth the higher density foam to deal with the potential long-term discomfort if the HD foam doesn't break down. I do want 5-lb foam as a support comfort layer, ut am starting to get over the 6-lb+ top layer. It simply no longer exists at a company with a decent return policy or sleep trial.

Ari, did you by any chance ever try out any of the Ultimate Dreams mattresses? It looks like the one comparable to the Cloud Supreme has all 4-lb foam and the 13" has 4-lb and 5-lb foam. I sure wish the 12" had 5-lb foam in the support layer like the 13" because I would be all over that. I'm naturally worried about the 3" of 4-lb foam in the 13" mattress. The 1.5" of 4-lb seems acceptable, especially if the 2.5" below it was 5-lb foam. Maybe I shouldn't worry about it at all. Who knows, haha!

The price point and 120-day trial of the Dreamfoam mattresses are outstanding. I may be giving one of these a try regardless of my weight, as I am in the low-200's and would be able to return within 120 days. If the Rhapsody Luxe or Cloud Supreme are no longer floor models, I'll just have to deal with it. I'm having a hard time seeing the value in spending $1400 to $2000 for floor models without a sleep trial. My best bet would be to buy a new Tempur-Pedic and figure out how the mattresses work long-term, via the 90-day sleep trial. Since I'm not willing to plunk down $3000 to $4000 for a new Cloud Supreme or Rhapsody Luxe, the sleep trial is not gonna happen. These Dreamfoam beds are around $540 shipped with a 120-day trial. Incredibly difficult to pass up on.
10 Aug 2018 07:09
  • Alsabrook
  • Alsabrook's Avatar
We owned our DreamFoam Ultimate Dreams 13" Gel mattress for a little less than 2 years before we had to replace it. My experience with DreamFoam/Brooklyn Bedding was VERY disappointing.

When our mattress first arrived it only expanded to 58.5" wide. With virtually no edge support this left only 52" - 53" of usable space on the mattress. We reached out to DF and were told that the measurements could be off +/- 1.5" and that this was right within the margin of error and was not considered a defect. We continued to use (and really like) the mattress for the first year. We rotated the mattress every 3-4 months, kept it in a mattress protector, and did everything we possibly could to protect and prolong the life of the mattress.

Within a couple weeks of the 1 year mark, the foam started to break down rapidly. When the foam indentations reached the 1.5" mark, we reached back out to DF and were told that for the warranty process to begin, the indentations had to be greater than 2". At this point I started getting VERY frustrated. The mattress continued to break down and became very uncomfortable to sleep on. The entire top layers of foam would collapse as soon as we would lay down and we would bottom out on the support layer. Rolling over was almost impossible. We measured the indentations in the mattress at the beginning of June and they were a little over 3" on one side and over 4" on the other. I reached out to Chuck at DF via email numerous times and received no response. Every time we called DF and explained the situation we were put on hold for anywhere between 30 minutes and an hour and then our call would be dropped.

At this point we're OVER dealing with DreamFoam! Their customer service/warranty is a joke.
30 Jul 2018 01:58
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Q8canuck.


Thank you for your kind words and appreciation of our site. You are certainly making good use of it and have learned a great deal in the process :) and while I am sorry to hear about your past “less than satisfactory” mattress decision, I am glad that you are "determined to get it right this time". :)

A post that caught my attention was about the customizable split king Presto mattress whose layers can be rearranged to suit each person's comfort. This makes sense to me if it's really as easy and practical as they say to rearrange the layers.


You are correct that a configurable system is “easy and practical” and offers the user the flexibility to customize the feel of a mattress not only immediately after the purchase, but also in the future, without having to replace the entire mattress. There are versions of customizable systems that use all latex, latex with polyfoam cores, memory foam with polyfoam or innerspring cores, and even versions using only polyfoam. As you discovered this can be especially useful when ordering something online, as it gives the consumer a bit of a “safety net” to be able to replace/rearrange layers if their selection doesn’t feel as they had hoped after ordering. MFC's Presto is a 10” all natural organic mattress, that has a top- brass zipper cover that will allow you to open and rearrange the 4 latex layers inside for each side in the split king to match each partner comfort needs.

However, all layers are made of organic Dunlop latex and I'd like to know how this construction would compare to the same in 100% Talalay, or a Talalay blend combination. What I've read on the site is that Dunlop has a firmer feel and a less consistent manufactured composition.


Your understanding is correct that Dunlop and Talalay of the same thickness and ILD won't feel the same in terms of their firmness for most people because they have a different response curve and compression modulus (how quickly a material becomes firmer as you sink into it more deeply). You can see a comparison between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 here . It is also true that Dunlop is less consistent in its cell structure (has a wider variety of cell size, shape, and structure) which along with its particle dispersion is what accounts for its greater compression modulus. It also uses more latex in the foam (a higher ratio of rubber to air) and is denser. Dunlop has a different "feel" and performance than Talalay and is less lively or springy but ultimately your own experience is really the only way to know which one you prefer with any certainty. Some people would notice more of a difference than others but generally you will "feel" more of the upper layers than the deeper layers ... at least when you first lie on a mattress. This is why I recommend that

What is your opinion on a 100% Dunlop mattress compared to Talalay?


Talalay and Dunlop have often been compared to angel food cake vs pound cake. Talalay has a more consistent and even and stronger cell structure because even though there is less latex overall ... the cell walls or "struts" are thicker and more consistent. There is a little more about the differences in "feel" between Dunlop and Talalay in post #7 linked above.

Are there other companies who make a similar customizable style in either Dunlop or Talalay?


These component systems are/have been quite popular for many years, and a quick glance at the members of the site will show that many of them offer such component style systems, as well as other mattress companies who are not site members here. Depending on the manufacturer/retailer these systems can be offered in Talalay or Dunlop only or a combination of both. As you already discovered we have a few Canadian Trusted members who offer All latex high quality great value component style systems

You already are aware and engaged in a conversation with one of our Canadian Experts The Mattress & Sleep Company who is closer to your location and who have all latex Talalay mattress options that you can try.
Memory Foam Comfort that you mentioned with their Presto customizable organic (Dunlop) mattresses another of our Expert Members of the site .
Dormio Organic Beds yet another one of our Expert manufacturers of the site have also a wide range of customizable “head to toe” latex mattresses and ship nationwide.
I’d suggest that you call

- I'm also curious about the pros and cons of Talalay blends that contain 30% natural latex and balance is synthetic.


Synthetic Latex - Styrene-Butadiene rubber (SBR) Latex that is a man-made molecular equivalent of natural rubber Latex (developed during WWII when natural rubber Latex became scarce). Blended Latex is a proprietary blend of natural and synthetic Latex (e.g. 30/70). Latex is blended to optimize the desired attributes of Latex foam rubber for its given manufacturing process and end product. It is less expensive than natural rubber and it is more consistent and durable. There is more about 100% natural and blended Talalay in post #2 here . It is also more difficult to work with to make a consistent firmness so the natural Talalay can be made softer than most Dunlop (except continuous pour Dunlop) but not as soft as blended Talalay. The two different versions of Talalay are very similar in feel and are lighter and more "lively" than Dunlop.

My best suggestion at this point is to determine if you like the feel of Dunlop or of Talalay by visiting one of the stores TAMASC mentioned and to place a few calls along the way or engage some of tour experts on the forum as they would be the best to answer many of the questions that you may have as they are much more familiar with their own mattress designs and materials than anyone else and they can use the information you provide about you and your partner's body type and sleeping positions, your preferences, your history on different mattresses, and the results of your in-home or local testing to make suggestions based on the "averages" of other customers that may be similar to you. Of course, I'd keep an eye on the options you have available and your ability to exchange layers or the mattress itself or use the other forms of fine-tuning the mattress after your purchase or the return policy may also be an important part of your personal value equation or to offset the risk that can go with any online purchase.

Based on the thought you are putting into this and the care you are taking with all the research you are doing I think you will certainly end up choosing between some great options.

Phoenix
11 Jul 2018 23:16
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi jaywood1.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

Hopefully, you've read the Mattress Shopping Tutorial post which has all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choices, learn how to avoid the worst ones.

www.brooklynbedding.com/products/mattresses/brooklyn-bowery/
What do you think of these beds?
Comfort layer: 2” of 3.0lb gel memory
Mid: 2” of their engineered foam
Support layer: 6” 2.0lb


I don’t know where you obtained the information you listed above but the layering and specs on their own site are very different then what you have.
They list in this order from top to bottom 3” Energex foam (density unknown) / 2” foam layer (density unknown) / 5” HD foam (density unknown)
If you manage to find the complete specs I’d be happy to comment upon the mattress that you are considering.

You are correct that Lucid does not provide any meaningful information about the specs contained within their mattress, but you may wish to do a quick search on our forum Search our forum with the key term “Lucid” which will bring up more comments about it. You may also wish to keep in mind that were a few issues with the covers that that were discussed In this thread here

The quality of the materials in the top 3" - 6" or so of a mattress will have the biggest effect on durability but durability will also depend on your weight and the other factors involved in the relative durability and useful life of a mattress (see post #4 here and the posts it links to).
In your research for a mattress, I’d make sure that you know the specifics of all the layers so you can identify any weak links and make sure that it uses the highest quality materials that are available in your budget range. The information you would need to identify any weak links and make meaningful comparisons between mattresses in terms of durability is in post #4 here . When assessing any product, also be sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

Hopefully, you can take some time to read through this information which will help to give you a good start in your mattress research.

Phoenix
Displaying 1 - 15 out of 809 results.
The Mattress UndergroundCopyright © 2022 The Mattress Underground
TheMattressUndergounf
TMU
TheMattressUndergounf