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Searched for: intelligel
28 Jul 2017 17:39
  • IanS
  • IanS's Avatar
Hi Sweet Dreams,

Thank you for pointing that out! I did read that review and was a little concerned about that, especially since there aren't many comprehensive reviews out there about the intellibed\intelligel that aren't promotional, and it is a little difficult to get a good picture of the overall quality of the product.

Phoenix, I apologize if I misunderstood your stance regarding buckling column gel. I remember reading somewhere on the forum that you tried it and concluded it wasn't for you (Please correct me if I am mistaken), but probably came to wrong the conclusion that "you're not a fan". I didn't mean to misrepresent your opinion in any way.

As for the surrounding foam in the Intellibed topper, I am probably going to email them and ask for the exact dimensions of the surrounding foam for a queen size topper. If the case will be as extreme as in the review I might pass on it. Also, another forum member here said somewhere that Intellibed can substitute the soy foam with Talalay Latex in their topper, but I might have to confirm that with them.

Just received a reply from sleeplikeabear.com and they suggested I get a 1''-2'' thick 14 ILD blended Talalay topper to provide the cushioning I need without creating a hammock effect. They also added that I could get another thin layer of a 28 ILD to provide that extra support underneath the soft top layer. Currently a 14 ILD 2'' topper seems like my safest bet for a latex topper.

I am still very intrigued with the Intellibed topper, as I am a sucker for anything innovative and technologically fresh, even though it might not be the best option for me :)

I'll keep you posted if there are any updates!
Thanks!

Ian
28 Jul 2017 10:14
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi IanS,

I was thinking of getting a 14 ILD Talatech 3'' topper from sleeplikeabear.com. It seems like it would be the most conforming. They also have a 14-19 ILD 100% natural talalay topper which was interesting - which one would be better in terms of conforming to the body's contours and creating that cradle sensation? I presume they give that ILD range for the Natural Talalay since it isn't synthetically produced and won't produce the exact same material consistency(as usually occurs with all natural materials). Am I correct?


The ILD rating is never an exact number, and how it is represented in ILD is determined from the manufacturer of the foam (what ranges they decide to produce) or how the reseller wants to advertise it. You can see the ILD numbers and the “word ratings” that Talalay Global (who makes the Talatech blended and natural latex you referenced) here . Talalay Global calls their softest natural Talalay N1, with a range of 14-19.99 ILD. The Talalay process tends to distribute the latex rubber particles quite well due to the vacuum seal/flash freeze part of the process, but natural rubber particles are stickier, less consistent and more difficult to work with than synthetic rubber, and there can be a bit more slight variation in ILD for a blended versus natural Talalay core, although the range of +/- 2 or so for the ILD is quite standard. The larger variances tend to be with Dunlop, as you can get some more settling of the latex rubber material in those cores, depending upon the process, with a +/- 4 ILD or so being a common variance.

Both choices you mentioned would be very soft, with the blended topper probably feeling more plush to you than the natural. However, I wouldn’t be able to tell you which one you might find more of a “cradle sensation”, as that is subjective and would also be partially determined by the mattress upon which the topper is placed.

Even though my mattress contains Latex, I am still not quite sure about the feel of latex as a comfort layer. Do you know of any stores in the Los Angeles area that carry toppers that I can try?


Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here ... the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around Los Angeles are listed here . You may also wish to use the Pure Talalay Bliss retailer locator here to find the closest PTB retailer, as the toppers they offer are the blended latex from Talalay Global in the 19 ILD range. I don’t keep a listing of the individual items (toppers – latex or gel) that all of the retails in specific areas keep on their floors, as that would be too large of a project for anyone to accomplish in an ever-changing landscape, so you’ll have to do some research on the web sites of place some phone calls to any retailers you are considering.

-I know from what I read here that you are not a big fan of buckling column gel. Is there any particular reason? Or you just didn't like the feel? Would love to hear about your experience and opinion of this type of gel


I’m not sure why you would have derived that opinion, as that is not my stance. There is more about buckling column gel in this article and in post #2 here and the posts it links to. A forum search on "buckling column gel" (you can just click the link) will also bring up more comments and feedback about it as well. It can be a good choice for those who have more extreme pressure relieving issues, as it compresses differently from normal foams (stays firm until reaching a threshold, where it “buckles”, where foams normally get progressively firmer as more weight is applied). The negatives are the higher price (although this is getting a bit better), the unique feel, and the “popping’ that some people find objectionable (mostly when placed as a topper or in the uppermost part of the mattress).

-Did you have any experience with the Intellibed company, or know of anyone who has (Specifically with their topper)?


You can see some of my comments about the Intellibed (and other types of buckling column gel) in this topic and in this topic and a forum search on Intelligel (you can just click this) will bring up more about them as well.

Thank you again! You are truly awesome for creating this website and helping so many people here!


You're welcome!

Phoenix
11 Jul 2017 10:57
  • phoenix
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Hi MiscellaneousBeef,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

Some of the better sources of which I am aware for latex componentry are listed in the component thread here . Many of these suppliers can create custom sizes for you. Most of the latex you’re likely to encounter will have pinhole construction, not only to change the comfort of the foam, but also as a by product of making the curing process consistent. The extra breathability this affords is a nice extra bonus. In North America the longest “standard size” mattress is the California King at 84”, but the widest “standard size” mattress is the traditional king at 76”. But layers can be seamed to create virtually any size you desire. Latex cores tend to top off at 6” in thickness, so you’d need at least two layers to achieve your 8”-9” overall thickness.

As for the buckling column gel, here are three manufacturers that have different versions of buckling column gel. One is Intelligel and one is NexGel (now owned by Spring Air / Sommex since Natura went bankrupt) and Leggett & Platt now has a version called Somnigel which is being used by King Koil and several other manufacturers in their mattresses.

A forum search on " orthogel " which is used in the Nexgel mattress or on " intelligel " used in the Intellibed, or on " somnigel " which is a newer version that is used by several manufacturers (you can just click the links) will bring up more forum comments about them.

I’m not aware of sources to the public for custom sized buckling column gel layers, so this may require you to do some phoning directly to Intellibed or Leggett and Platt with your request to see if they are able to offer you any advice/assistance.

Phoenix
25 May 2017 10:26
  • phoenix
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Hi juhasznebakos,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

You did not mention intellibed. Can you tell me about it? What is your opinion?


While this site is not a review site, Intellibed has been discussed on the forum and you can see some of my comments about the Intellibed (and other types of buckling column gel) in this topic and in this topic a forum search on Intelligel or on Intellibed (you can just click the links) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well. A forum search on buckling column gel (you can just click this as well) will also bring up more comments and feedback about other types of buckling column gel as well. Buckling column gel itself is certainly a somewhat unique material and is also very durable. It's one of those materials (much like memory foam) that tend to generate strong feelings either for or against it depending on preferences but for those who like how it feels and performs it can certainly make a good choice.

I hope your research on the site has included following the guidelines in the mattress shopping tutorial as well.

Phoenix
21 Dec 2015 13:03
  • phoenix
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Hi eeks,

Phoenix - I'm having trouble finding which manufacturers sell a non-wool quilted cover on the links you sent? Am I not looking at the right stuff? That could very well be!


I don't keep a record of the specifics of every mattress that each of them offer (it would be more than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) so it would be best to check their websites or talk with them and ask but off the top of my head I know that SleepEZ and Arizona Premium (mattresses.net) and Cozy Pure all make all latex mattresses that don't contain any wool in their covers. Some of the others may also have cover options that aren't specifically mentioned on their websites as well that they will let you know about when you talk with them on the phone.

Plushbeds and Foam Order and Pure Rest are a few others off the top of my head that also make some all latex mattresses that have cover options that don't contain any wool although there would be others as well that don't spring immediately to mind.

Some of the sources for individual stretch knit covers that are listed in the component list I linked in my last reply also sell individual latex layers as well that you can use to make your own DIY mattress although they are only sold as individual mattress components and can't be sold or described as an actual finished mattress because their cover/latex combinations haven't passed the fire regulations.

do you know anything about Intellibed? Again, bloggers I have read in the "health" arena have raved about this too, but I dont know if they make false claims too.


Some of the comments I have read from online bloggers about the Intellibed are somewhat "suspect" as well and they don't appear to have a great deal of knowledge about mattresses and mattress materials.

Buckling column gel itself is certainly a somewhat unique material and is also very durable. It's one of those materials (much like memory foam) that tend to generate strong feelings either for or against it depending on preferences but for those who like how it feels and performs it can certainly make a good choice. You can see some of my comments about the Intellibed (and other types of buckling column gel) in this topic and in this topic a forum search on Intelligel or on Intellibed (you can just click the links) will bring up more comments and feedback about them as well. A forum search on buckling column gel (you can just click this as well) will also bring up more comments and feedback about other types of buckling column gel as well.

Buckling column gel is certainly not a "natural" material although there are many synthetic materials that for most people would certainly be "safe enough".

While it may be more information than you are looking for ... there is a lot more information in post #2 here and the more detailed posts and information it links to about safe, natural, organic, "chemical free", and "green" mattresses and mattress materials that can help sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and answer "how safe is safe enough for me" that can help each person decide on the types of materials they are most comfortable having in their mattress or on the certifications that may be important to them. These types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, criteria, beliefs, and lifestyle choices.

Phoenix
21 Nov 2015 10:51
  • phoenix
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Hi purplepain,

We have tried memory foam, talalay latex, innerspring with toppers...and I just can't seem to find anything that reduces pressure point pain and is still comfortable. Memory foam reduced the pain the most, but my wife and I are just not fans of the way they feel (left over crater when repositioning and sleeps hot are the two biggies).


I would keep in mind that all foam materials and innersprings come in a range of firmness levels and also that every layer and component of a mattress will affect the feel and firmness of all the other layers and a mattress "as a whole" so it's very possible that the mattresses that you tested or slept on just weren't a good "match" for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) and that other mattresses that use the same materials may work better for you.

There are also many different versions of memory foam that are more or less temperature sensitive, have a faster or slower response, or are more or less temperature regulating than others. The type and thickness of memory foam and the other layers and components in the mattress (above and below the memory foam) can also have a significant effect on the overall firmness of the mattress.

It's certainly possible that you may just need thicker and/or softer and/or more point elastic comfort and transition layers than the mattresses you have tried so far.

I would also keep in mind that with more complex medical issues there may be no perfect mattress that solves all your sleeping issues and it may also be worthwhile experimenting with some creative solutions such as using pillows in various ways to help with the issues you are experiencing (see post #5 here and post #2 here for some examples).

There is also more detailed information about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here that may also be helpful.

Various zoning systems can also be very useful and worth considering for people who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to "match" to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here .

Anyway, I am extremely interested in the column buckling gel but have exhausted everything at my disposal to find anyplace within an hour or two from me that sales this. This brings me to my actual question for you. Do you know of any mattress companies that sell a mattress that contains somnigel that would be an hour or two from Topeka, KS? Kansas City is about 1 hour away for your reference. Also, if you don't know of any companies, do you have any suggestions for my continued search? Comfort King's Dream looks wonderful but Sioux Falls SD is 5 1/2 hours away and they really don't have a favorable return policy (coupled with the fact that it is out of our price range). Should I call Leggett and Platt and see if they can tell me who is using their somnigel?


Somnigel is just one of several versions of buckling column gel that are available in the market with similar properties. The others are Intelligel and Orthogel/Nexgel. They are all very durable materials. There is more information about them in this article and in post #2 here and the posts it links to. A forum search on " buckling column gel " (you can just click the link) will also bring up more comments and feedback about them as well.
ADMIN NOTE:Retired Website | Archived Footprint: nexgel.com/

The better options or possibilities I'm aware of in or around the Kansas City and Topeka areas are listed in post #2 here .

I don't keep a record of the individual mattresses or their specs that the retailers and manufacturers in the hundreds of forum lists throughout the forum carry on their floor or have available online (it would be a bigger job than anyone could keep up with in a constantly changing market) but checking their websites and making some preliminary phone calls to the retailers/manufacturers that are on the lists is always a good idea before you decide on which retailers or manufacturers you wish to deal with anyway. This will tell you which of them carry mattresses that would meet your specific criteria, are transparent about the materials in their mattresses, and that carry the type of mattresses that you are interested in that are also in the budget range you are comfortable with. Once you have checked their websites and/or talked with the ones that interest you then you will be in a much better position to decide on the ones that you are most interested in considering or visiting based on the results of your preliminary research and conversations.

As you mentioned it may also be worthwhile calling Leggett & Platt to see if they can provide you with a list of manufacturers that use their Somnigel and then you could contact those manufacturers to see if they have any retailers in your area that sell their Somnigel mattresses. It may also be worth calling Nexgel to see if they have any retailers in your area.
ADMIN NOTE:Retired Website | Archived Footprint: nexgel.com/

Intellibed also has a buckling buckling column gel topper here which may be worth considering (but make sure you are comfortable with their return policy just in case it doesn't work out as well as you hoped for).
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: intellibed.com/product/toppers/

Phoenix
04 Oct 2015 16:32
  • phoenix
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Hi Quickstrike,

All the layers and components of a mattress affect the feel and performance of all the other layers above and below it and the mattress "as a whole" so the "ideal" thickness of any somnigel layer(s) would depend on all the other materials and components in the mattress and the design goals of the mattress. It doesn't make much sense to arbitrarily decide how thick any individual material or component "needs" to be without taking into account all the other materials and components and the complete design of the mattress.

The Somnigel (which is also supplied by Leggett & Platt) is a type of buckling column gel that comes in layers that are either 2.25" or 1.125" thick.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint 1: beddingcomponents.com/pdf/gel-products/SomniGel-DiamondSell.pdf

Somnigel is just one of several versions of buckling column gel that are available in the market with similar properties. The others are Intelligel and Orthogel/Nexgel. They are all very durable materials. There is more information about them in this article and in post #2 here and the posts it links to. A forum search on " buckling column gel " (you can just click the link) will also bring up more comments and feedback about them as well.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint 1: intellibed.com/research/intelligel/|Archived Footprint 2: nexgel.com/

In very general terms they all use some type of thin foam layer on top of the buckling column gel to even out the feel of the material and they can be used as a comfort layer on top of any other combination of materials and components that are used as transition or support layers (such as polyfoam, latex, or innersprings).

The choice between different types of materials and components in a mattress or different types of mattresses is always a preference choice (assuming that the materials are durable enough for someone's body type) and some people may like a particular mattress that uses Somnigel while others may not.

In its simplest form ... choosing the "best possible" mattress for any particular person really comes down to ...

1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of "comfort" and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) ... or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or "fine tune" the mattress and any costs involved if you're not confident that it would be a suitable choice.

2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress that would compromise the durability of the mattress (see this article and the durability guidelines it links to).

3. Comparing your other finalists for "value" based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
10 Jul 2015 10:18
  • phoenix
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Hi burntsienna,

I have chronic back pain and need high quality support and pressure relief for all areas of my spine, hips and shoulders. The buckling gel material sounds very promising because of its reverse pressure properties. In checking out the intellibed, it looks like the gel component is just the top layer of the bed (under which is a foam layer and then a spring coil layer).


Intellibed's intelligel is just one of several versions of buckling column gel that are available in the market with similar properties. The others are SomniGel and Orthogel/Nexgel . They are all very durable materials. There is more information about them in this article and in post #2 here and the posts it links to. A forum search on " buckling column gel " (you can just click the link) will also bring up more comments and feedback about them as well.

In very general terms they all use some type of thin foam layer on top of the buckling column gel to even out the feel of the material and they can be used as a comfort layer on top of any other combination of materials and components that are used as transition or support layers (such as polyfoam, latex, or innersprings). In the case of the Intellibed mattresses they all use a linked innerspring for support.

I am wondering if, in theory, you could get the same buckling gel benefits from just using the topper over a supportive latex foam mattress.


I would keep in mind that there isn't a single material or component that will help with back pain because all the layers and components of a mattress will affect all the other layers and components above and below it and the mattress as a whole so one mattress with a buckling column gel component may work perfectly for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) while another mattress that uses the same buckling column gel component in a different design with a different combination of materials and components may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on.

When you have a history of back issues then the most important factor in choosing a mattress that keeps your spine and joints in good alignment and allows your muscles to completely relax when you are sleeping (so the mattress is doing the work of keeping you in alignment over the course of the night instead of your muscles) but the choice of materials or components is more of a preference issue than a "better/worse" issue. There are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to be able to use a formula or specs (either yours or a mattress) to predict with certainty whether any mattress or mattress/topper combination will work well for you and the only way to know whether any mattress or mattress/topper combination will be a good "match" for you is based on your own actual experience.

There is more about primary or "deep" support and secondary or "surface" support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the "roles" of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between "support/alignment" and "pressure relief" and "feel".

All of this is just a way to say that a buckling column gel topper may be better, the same, or worse on a particular mattress as the same component inside a mattress itself or than a mattress that uses different materials and components completely and the only way to know for certain will be based on your actual sleeping experience.

I live in Norfolk, VA and see that Cozy Pure is located here and has a nice looking latex mattress. I like that this is a mattress I can try out locally, but I also think the buckling gel might be a really good thing for my back. So would a gel topper give me that benefit or is it not thick enough?


As you probably know Cozy Pure is one of the members of the site which means I think highly of them and I believe that they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency. Their Organic Comfort Zone mattress are also zoned and this can also be helpful with more challenging body types or difficult circumstances. If they are local to you they would certainly be well worth a visit. Again though ... the only way to know for certain whether any combination of materials or components in a mattress or sleeping system will work well for you "as a whole" will be based on your own personal testing or sleeping experience. Whether any specific component is either thick enough or soft/firm enough as a topper will depend on the specifics of your body type, sleeping style, preferences, and on the specifics of the mattress underneath it.

If your mattress is still in good condition and there are no soft spots or visible impressions and all you need is some additional pressure relief and softness then a topper can certainly be a good solution and there is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to that can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. It also includes a link to a list of some of the better online sources for toppers I'm aware of as well.

Phoenix
26 May 2015 17:22
  • phoenix
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Hi slewis7,

It is time to buy a new queen size mattress and I always have had an interest in getting a memory foam mattress. I am familiar with the Tempur Pedic mattresses and I went to my local Mattress Firm to try them. I really liked the feel of the Tempur Cloud Supreme Breeze. One reason why I gravitated to that one is the claim that it's special phase changing layer is superior to gel in alleviating temperature issues for people who sleep hot. That claim is hard to evaluate in the store and there seems to be very little information about it in this forum or elsewhere online.


There is more information about gel or phase change materials in post #2 here and the posts it links to but I would keep in mind that while they may have a cooler "hand feel" and they can have an initial effect on temperature when you are first going to sleep ... once temperatures equalize then the benefits of gel or phase change materials don't generally last over the course of the night.

Based on what I read here, before I buy the Tempur mattress, I am planning on visiting Texas Mattress Maker, which is one of the site's recommended vendors that is in my area (Houston). They have a Milan Gel Memory foam mattress which looks to be the closet match to the Tempur mattress I am considering. Of course, it is significantly less expensive. Can anyone comment on this mattress and how it compares to the Tempur. Also, is the Tempur's "Breeze" layer really superior to the gel layer in the Milan for temperature control?


I don't know the specifics of the Milan Gel Memory foam mattress so I can't make any meaningful comments about it but if you can find out the information in this article and post it on the forum I'd certainly be happy to make some comments about the materials inside it and the mattress as a whole.

The online description does mention that it uses SomniGel which is a type of buckling column gel similar to Nexgel/Orthogel or Intelligel. This is a very durable material and there is more information about it in this article and in post #2 here and the posts it links to. A forum search on " buckling column gel " (you can just click the link) will also bring up more comments and feedback about it as well.

There is also more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses as well.

While Tempurpedic mattresses for the most part use good quality and durable materials so they don't generally have unusual quality or durability issues ... as you probably know from your reading here, for most people they certainly wouldn't be the best "value" range compared to many other mattresses that are available either locally or online that are made by smaller manufacturers that use the same or similar quality materials that are would be just as suitable and just as durable and are in lower budget ranges.

Phoenix
19 Mar 2015 14:32
  • phoenix
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Hi pbos,

I split your topic into a topic of its own so your questions don't get mixed in with a more general topic.

I was looking into the intellibed until I found your post on that. Do you have any specific suggestions?


Unfortunately there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to be able to make specific recommendations or suggest a specific mattress or type of materials that you may do well with based on specs (either yours or a mattress), health conditions, individual circumstances, or "theory at a distance" (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ). Having said that I can certainly make some suggestions about "how" to choose that may be helpful.

Post #2 here and the more detailed posts and information it links to have more information about safe, natural, organic, "chemical free", and "green" mattresses and mattress materials that can help you sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and answer "how safe is safe enough for me" so you can decide on the types of materials you are most comfortable with having in your mattress. These types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, criteria, and lifestyle choices. Latex can certainly be a good choice for people that are very sensitive.

Once you have decided on which materials you are comfortable with having in your mattress then choosing a mattress that only contains that type of materials will be much easier.

Anecdotally there are more people that have issues with Tempurpedic than many other types of memory foam and their memory foam isn't CertiPUR certified but of course they are also sell more memory foam mattresses than anyone else so this may also be part of what accounts for the number of reports of people that are sensitive to them.

There are also more people that are sensitive to memory foam than polyfoam so if you have slept on mattresses that contains polyfoam previously without any sensitivity issues then this may be worth considering as well and this would open up many more choices for you than only considering mattresses that use an innerspring and natural fibers.

The Intelligel (or other buckling column gel materials) would also be a "safe" material for most people but of course their mattresses also contain polyfoam as well and the buckling column gel is only one of the layers in their mattress.

Phoenix
22 Feb 2015 17:58
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Hi cprice88,

One of them is an OMI (Organicpedic) bed that's way out of our price range and if we settle on that one we would end up purchasing something comparable online. It is probably our favorite of the three.

It's the OMI Duo with all talalay, three 3" layers and we liked it with firm on the bottom and soft-soft for the top two layers.The top layer also was convoluted, though not sure how important that is. But it is $8,000! The sales guy said they also offer the OMI Duo "promo" (?) which is made with dunlop latex, but when I asked if it would feel similar he gave me a really confusing non-answer.

So that said, I'm wondering if there is any way to figure out which of the others (from my earlier post) offer latex layers with the same/similar density to OMI?


There is more about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one in post #9 here but the only way to know for certain that two mattress will feel the same is if they both contain the same types and blends of latex, all the layers are the same thickness and firmness, and they both have a very similar cover (including any quilting). Once there are differences between any of the specs between two mattresses then "approximating" a mattress based on specs can become much more difficult and the most reliable way to know how they would compare for any particular person would be based on your own side by side testing and personal experience because different people can have different opinions about how closely two mattresses with differences in their designs and components compare to each other because body type, sleeping positions, and individual sensitivities can also play a role in how they feel and compare.

Each of the manufacturers you mentioned would be the most reliable source of guidance about which of the options they carry would be closest to the OMI configuration that you tested (or any other mattress where you know the accurate specs) although they may not be the same because of differences between their covers and also because the convoluted topper would be a little softer than the same layer in the same thickness and ILD that wasn't convoluted (there is more about the effects of convoluting in post #2 here ). It would be very helpful if you knew the ILD of the latex layers in the OMI Duo because otherwise they would need to guess and the effective ILD of the OMI "soft" or "firm" layers may be different from the ILD of the soft or firm layers that are carried by other manufacturers.

-Pure Bliss Beautiful, which appears to be all blended Talalay in 3 layers 6-2-2 but they don't seem to publish density data on the layers. As you probably already know, this one doesn't allow changing of the layers.


The density of Talalay latex isn't as important as the ILD if you are making firmness comparisons. With Dunlop latex ILD will also be a reasonable way to compare them but in some cases the ILD of Dunlop isn't available or isn't listed accurately or they can sometimes be tested differently so in these cases density may be a more effective comparison for the relative firmness of 100% natural Dunlop layers (see post #6 here ).

You can see the ILD of the blended Talalay latex in the Pure Latex Bliss mattresses (including the Beautiful) in post #2 here .

-Evolve 10" latex (they said this is a local company) and it is all blended dunlop latex, sewn inside the cover so no changing of layers. For that reason, it is also cheaper than the OMI and Pure Bliss, but in the same range as all the online options for Talalay, so our leaning is toward ordering online. Anyway, they provide all the data on their label and it said: 6" 36lb core, 2" 28 lb support layer, 2" 19 lb comfort layer.

From what I read here, it seems we may want to steer away from blended dunlop, but that's the one product where we could get real data about the density of the latex. The density numbers do not translate from dunlop to talalay, do they?


Comparing the ILD for different types or blends of latex may not be as accurate as the comparing the ILD (for Talalay) or density (for 100% natural Dunlop) of the same type and blend of latex. Like all latex ... blended Dunlop is a very durable material (as long as there isn't a high percentage of filler in the latex) but it may not have the same elasticity and resilience or be quite as supportive as latex that is 100% natural rubber. It is also a high quality material.

Oh, also, Phoenix, have you heard of beds made out of mineral oil-based gel? We accidentally happened upon a store called Intelligent Sleep where they sell some proprietary gel thing layered with latex and pocket coils.


This would be Intelligel which is a buckling column gel. You can read more about this type of material in this article and in post #2 here and post #2 here and the posts and topics they link to. A forum search on Intelligel (you can just click the link) will also bring up more information and feedback about it as well.

Phoenix
15 Feb 2015 18:01
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Hi mellowjammer,

Thanks for the feedback about the Intelligel topper ... I appreciate it :).

Your comments about a quilted cover are interesting to me because they actually use a quilted polyfoam layer above the intelligel layer in their own mattresses although the topper appears to have just the intelligel without a foam layer on top of it (it looks like it only has a polyfoam layer underneath it).

When I tested a different version of buckling column gel (made by Nexgel which has a little higher column buckling threshold than the Intelligel apparently which would make it firmer) I could still feel the "crinkly" feel when you move even with a foam layer on top of it which was somewhat unusual although it wasn't unpleasant.

I also think your comments will also be helpful for others that are considering the same topper.

Phoenix
13 Dec 2014 23:25
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Hi Relaxation,

You can see my thoughts about buckling column gel (Intelligel is one version of buckling column gel) and the Intellibed in post #2 here and the posts it links to.

Mineral oil is one part of the chemical formula that is used to manufacture it.

Also, was thinking of a topper for my superfirm mattress that I wrote you about in past and perhaps you can recommend one you like?
My latex topper of 3-4 years old, is now too lumpy to be supportive.


Latex normally doesn't get "lumpy" (this is usually from springs that you can feel underneath the top foam layers or from fiber materials that have bunched together or compressed unevenly) so it may be worthwhile checking the mattress underneath it to see if that is where the "lumpiness" is coming from.

There are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to recommend a specific mattress or topper for someone else based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance" with any certainty (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ) but there are some topper guidelines in post #2 here that may help you use your sleeping experience on your mattress as a reference point and guideline to help you decide on the type, thickness, and firmness of a topper that would have the best chance of success.

The type of material in your topper would normally be a preference choice but if you are interested in trying a topper material that you aren't familiar with or have tried tested or tried previously or if you aren't reasonably certain that a topper will be a suitable choice for you in combination with your mattress then the return or exchange policies would become a much more important part of the "value" of your purchase so you have good options available if the topper doesn't work out as well as you hoped for so you aren't "stuck" with a topper that you can't sleep well on.

Phoenix
06 Dec 2014 03:31
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Hi mellowjammer,

I purchased a Sleep Science 9" Natural Talalay Latex Mattress. 3" of 20-24 ILD (was advertised as19 ILD) over a 6" 32 ILD core. It felt firm but ok everywhere except my shoulders which would still make my arms go numb (side sleeper). I'm 5'10" and 225lbs athletic build. I can return the mattress without issue (Costco) but where do I go from here?


There are many other latex mattress options available to you if you decide to return it. The mattress shopping tutorial includes a link to the members of this site that sell mattresses online and many of them sell latex mattresses that use different types and blends of latex with a wide range of designs, features, firmness options, return and exchange policies, and price ranges that would make good choices.

If you let me know your city or zip code ... I'd also be happy to let you know about any of the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in your area.

I'm not sure how long you've had the Sleep Science latex but there are some suggestions in post #2 here that may be helpful.

If you have already been sleeping on it for a few weeks and it's still too firm and none of the other suggestions are helpful (and a thicker pillow may be worth trying), then you would also have the option of adding a topper to provide the additional comfort and pressure relief that you need instead of returning it and starting all over again.

If you do decide to add a topper ... then post #2 here and the topper guidelines that it links to has more information about choosing the type, thickness, and firmness that would have the best chance of success.

I was contemplating getting an Arizona Premium Mattress cover and (2) 3" layers of Latex for the bottom and middle layers, and then buying an edizone Intelli-gel buckling gel layer if possible to use as my top comfort layer within the same mattress cover. I don't know if I would have to buy Intelli-bed's topper to get it and how thick the gel piece is. Has anybody tried this?


I don't know of anyone that has tried this combination but if you are considering either a topper or a top layer to use in a component or DIY mattress then the only way to know whether it would work well for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) would be based on your own personal experience so if you aren't familiar with how the combination will feel for you (which may be different from how it would feel for someone else) or you aren't confident that it would be a good match for you in terms of PPP then the exchange or return policy would become a much more important part of the "value" of your purchase in case your sleeping experience indicates that it doesn't work out as well as you hoped for.

As far as I know you can't buy the intelligel material separately but the Intelligel topper has a 3" layer of intelligel and a cover and if you purchase the mattress protector as well then you would qualify for their 60 day trial period.

I tried to find the Serta mattress you had previously provided a link to which supposedly had these materials in it already, but the link no longer gets you to that product. You didn't give the name of it. Is it still available?


No ... it's no longer available but there are other mattresses that use different versions of buckling column gel (Somnigel and Orthogel) that may be available in your area (see post #2 here ).

Phoenix
13 Oct 2014 12:32
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Hi Lady G,

Is it true that IntelliBed is the only manufacturer of 100% buckling column gel and that all other manufacturers by law are required to use some % foam in their gel?


All of the different types of buckling column gel are made by Edizone and licenced for use by different manufacturers so it would be more accurate to say it was required "by license" than "by law". Edizone doesn't release the proprietary information about the specific differences between them but the Orthogel for example does use a foamed material inside it (see post #7 here ).

They are all very durable materials with the same basic function but they will have a different buckling threshold and have a slightly different feel between them depending on the version and design and on the other layers that are either above or below them. Forum search on Edizone or on Intelligel and Orthogel and Somnigel (you can just click the links) will bring up more information and some feedback about them as well.

Phoenix
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