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Searched for: greensleep
23 Feb 2022 13:14
  • MisterDerp
  • MisterDerp's Avatar
Thanks again for all your help Phoenix, your in depth response provided me with a ton of great information to go on.

I went to a bunch of places you recommended and ended up really liking the Soma Organic Mattresses store. They really knew their stuff and took the time chat with me and figure out what would be best for my sleep habits without giving me the run-around.
I appreciated their honesty and directness and would definitely recommend the store.

I bought the hybrid M Green Sleep mattress (greensleep.ca/en/hybrid-collection-hybrid-m/)
with a latex topper in medium density. It feels extremely comfortable and looking forward to receiving my new bed!
20 Feb 2022 21:36
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
H MisterDerp,

Thanks so much for the response Phoenix. Are you aware of any of the companies in Toronto able to advise me?


I do know of a number of stores providing good quality mattresses in and around Toronto; you already mentioned you are planning on visiting one of our Trusted members who are highly regarded by our subscribers, Dormio Organic Beds but as you say their organic lines, they are not inexpensive. They do have however lower budget range lineups that you may want to look at. Another Trusted Member, CBH Wood Furniture offers a very good quality/value bed system with a flippable (dual-comfort) mattress and a sleeping system that is innovative, unique, and robust that is worth checking out. They have a showroom in Toronto called Swiss Dream Beds. Also, our Trusted member Ghostbeds has a partnership with and is selling beds through Costco Canada. A few other Toronto options you may be interested in which have quality materials and products:

Factory Direct Manufacturers: non TMU members
• If you want to look at poly and memory foam options BB Bedding Manufacturers St Clair Ave West, 23 Westmore Drive Unit #4 Rexdale, ON M9V 3Y7 416-747-0968 - Factory direct manufacturer in Rexdale. He has about 25 mattresses on the floor and can custom-build most mattresses. Uses Carpenter memory foam normally 4 lbs but can order higher density on request.
Factory Mattress 1650 Bayly Street, Pickering ON 905-837-0288-Factory direct manufacturer in Pickering, ON. They carry a range of mattresses including innerspring, latex, memory foam, and polyfoam that use high-quality materials. Some of them are manufactured by themselves but they also carry some additional manufacturers such as Dreamstar and Easy Rest that would also be worth considering. A mom-and-pop manufacturer who is doing things right.
A1 Quality Furniture 30-12612 Highway 50, Bolton ON 905-857-7899-Factory direct manufacturer in Bolton. Used to be Flexopedic Mattress owned by two brothers, using quality materials. One of the brothers has retired and one is still involved with the new business which has the same phone number and they are still making similar mattresses using latex, memory foam, coils, and custom sizes.
Foamite Industries 1000Edgely Blvd Concord ON 905-66-0477- Factory direct manufacturer in Toronto. Makes a range of latex, memory foam, and hybrid mattresses.
Springmade Mattress Inc. 110 Norfinch Drive Unit 7 North York ON 416-736-9003 - Factory direct manufacturer in Toronto. Has been making mattresses for 15 years and uses quality materials. He will also custom manufacture. Has access to any foam or density a customer may wish. See this thread for more feedback about them.
Fantastic Sleep Shop 268 Rutherford Rd, South Brampton ON 905-455-0085 - Factory direct manufacturer in Brampton. Talked with Frank the owner and he can custom build any type of mattress but focuses on more economical models in the store due to the economy in the area. Good people.
Ideal Mattress 5015 Maingate Drive Units 34-37 Mississaugua ON 905-624-2614 - Factory direct manufacturer in Toronto and Mississauga. Talked with Kristina who with her brother is the owner and she clearly is knowledgeable about mattress materials and manufacturing and uses good quality materials. They also carry Kingsdown but I would tend to focus on the mattresses they manufacture unless you have a compelling reason to choose a Kingsdown. Uses a zip cover so customers can see what is in their mattress. There are some good quality options here and we had a good conversation although there has been some occasional feedback on the forum that they were "downplaying" or steering some customers away from some of their lower budget mattresses that may also be good quality/value
Quality Mattress Factory 2700 Unit 2 Toronto ON 416-760-7007 - Factory direct manufacturer in Toronto. They make traditional innerspring/polyfoam mattresses using a range of foam quality but mostly higher density 1.8 lb and higher. will disclose the foam densities for anyone who asks.
Dreamtime Bedding 116 Milvan Dr North York ON 416-741-2337 - Manufacturer in North York. They are mostly wholesale but have a showroom at the factory and will sell direct to consumers as well. They make a full range of mattresses including innerspring, memory foam, and latex and will disclose and help educate their customers about the quality of all the materials in their mattresses.

Retailers:
Soma Sleep 100 Bridgeland Ave Unit C Toronto ON 416-789-2337
Retail outlet in Toronto. Knowledgeable and they carry a wide range of mattresses made by many
independent manufacturers including Natura, Greensleep, Springwall, SleepTek, Savvy Rest,
Magniflex, Tempurpedic, and Hypnos which are all high quality but make sure you make some careful
"value" comparisons as many of these tend towards premium prices.

Ton Furniture 647-839-5672 - Retail Direct outlet in Toronto. Works closely with Dreamstar (a wholesale manufacturer in Toronto) and knows his stuff. Is focused on quality and value and can also arrange to have a mattress custom built. Normally sells online only but will make an appointment to visit his warehouse with 2 hours notice. Sells latex, memory foam, and traditional poly and innersprings. There are some good comments about them in post #6 here

Wholesale Manufacturers: non TMU members
These don't sell factory direct but through retail stores but are smaller manufacturers and are made in Toronto and will often have better quality/value than other larger alternatives (depending on the retailer). A call to each of these (or a retail locator on their site) will give you a list of the retailers near you that carry them. Local manufacturers like these will typically be much more open about providing the specs of the materials they use to their retailers.
www.dreameasy.com/ Wholesale manufacturer in Toronto connected with Foamco. I had a long conversation with Arun there and they are doing things right and focused on quality and value and not giving into the pressures to use lower quality foams.
www.dreamstarbedding.com/ Wholesale manufacturer in Toronto. They make a complete range of mattresses including latex, innersprings, memory foam, and hybrids that are good quality and can have good value.
• Endless Comfort . Wholesale manufacturer in Woodbridge, ON. Makes a range of mostly innerspring and memory foam/innerspring hybrids and makes some of the house brands that are seen around Toronto.
• galaxybedding.ca/ Wholesale manufacturer in Etobicoke, ON that, makes a range of innerspring, memory foam, and latex hybrids and may have some better quality/value as well.
www.marshallmattress.com/ Wholesale manufacturer in Toronto, ON. they are the manufacturer that "marshall coils" (pocket coils) were named after and they make a range of high-quality mattresses.
• sleepinnmattress.com/ Wholesale manufacturer in Etobicoke, ON. they make a full range of mattresses including latex, innersprings, and memory foam.
There are also quite a few other manufacturers most of which don't have websites and who I haven't talked to so I'm not including them because the GTA is notorious for opportunistic manufacturers who are here one day and gone the next and use questionable materials and sources. There certainly is a wide variety of good choices here

I'm a relatively standard BMI, 22, but have had some lower back issues. Specifically disc herniation in my lumbar. this is why I have tended towards the beauty rest which according to the sales material has better support for lower back. Whether or not this is just lies I don't know!


You did not mention your sleeping position(s), but thanks for including your other stats… lower back issues can be indicative of spinal misalignment and lack of proper support; however because of disc herniation you may need extra attention to proper alignment – you may want to work hand-in-hand with your healthcare provider to ensure proper alignment. As you do have some very specific health considerations, nothing can replace your own personal testing. You’d obviously want to consider something that allows for enough surface comfort, and also assists with pressure point relief, while still overall being resilient enough and provide enough support while sleeping. Overall, the two basic functions of a mattress are to support and to provide comfort (you can read more about the basic functions of a mattress here ), with posture and alignment being the first priority and then comfort/ pressure relief “plushness” coming second.

Because you are lighter, depending on your sleep positions you might not need a very high mattress; this could cut down on costs a bit, you should discuss this with Dormio or CBH Wood when you visit.

Good luck and let us know how you are doing with testing and narrowing down a few good alternatives when you have a chance
Phoenix
19 Aug 2019 14:16
  • Stefan416
  • Stefan416's Avatar

Hi Stephan416,

I was considering not having the two soft layers and switching one to something else. Mario at MFC had suggested a firm in its place. So S/M/F/F/F which sounds like a good option


Since organic dunlop latex does soften up quite a bit in the first 3 months, you may want to switch one of the 20ILD soft layers to a 30ILD medium layer if you prefer a firmer mattress.

Regarding the impressions, that does seem kind of premature no? Their warranty states a minimum of 1.5 inches for warranties which seems like alot. I know Tempurpedic is 0.75 but that's not the same stuff at all.


This is not premature an expected from these types of mattresses. 1.5" is standard in the industry, you can compare with Savvy rest for example that also only cover visible indentation greater than one and one-half inch.

I understand that latex is a little weird to deal with but sloppy cuts are a different matter. I stopped in to a local store and tried some GreenSleep models and they also have a layered system that isnt glued. They are actually individually put into cotton socks as well which is a nice addition

We don't include individual organic cotton sleeve on each layers for several reasons:
1-Cost savings
2-The layers stick together better and you get less shifting of the layers because of the stickiness of latex on latex
3-It's not really needed as the layers are inside a cover already and you will probably only handle the layers a few times and then never open up the cover again
4-We do offer them if you want them, the cost is $40 per layer in a Queen size.

How do you sleep? I'm personally 5ft-10 160lbs, wider shouldered, small waist. Tend to sleep on my side or stomach. I think I like more of a medium firmness mattress. Definitely not into the sloppy super sunk in feeling all too much. I like the Tempurpedic teal firmness which is their middle firmness I beleive.


You will never get the same feeling out of a pure rubber mattress than you will from a Tempurpedic. Organic dunlop is the most supportive mattress material available, and has a high pushback factor. You will not sink into the mattress and will feel supported.

Good luck in your search, and keep us posted on what you decide to do.

regards


I hope I didnt come off as knocking MFC. I'm definitely not. Offering a latex mattress at your price points is a KILLER deal! Those stores I had visited had price points of 3000-5000( with an equivalent thickness and adjustable model going for around 4000). If your reasonably confident in what layering you want then MFC is right at the top it seems. For me its know what to order that currently hanging me up hence why I'm trying out the firmness option locally first :)
19 Aug 2019 13:03
  • MFC
  • MFC's Avatar
Hi Stephan416,

I was considering not having the two soft layers and switching one to something else. Mario at MFC had suggested a firm in its place. So S/M/F/F/F which sounds like a good option


Since organic dunlop latex does soften up quite a bit in the first 3 months, you may want to switch one of the 20ILD soft layers to a 30ILD medium layer if you prefer a firmer mattress.

Regarding the impressions, that does seem kind of premature no? Their warranty states a minimum of 1.5 inches for warranties which seems like alot. I know Tempurpedic is 0.75 but that's not the same stuff at all.


This is not premature an expected from these types of mattresses. 1.5" is standard in the industry, you can compare with Savvy rest for example that also only cover visible indentation greater than one and one-half inch.

I understand that latex is a little weird to deal with but sloppy cuts are a different matter. I stopped in to a local store and tried some GreenSleep models and they also have a layered system that isnt glued. They are actually individually put into cotton socks as well which is a nice addition

We don't include individual organic cotton sleeve on each layers for several reasons:
1-Cost savings
2-The layers stick together better and you get less shifting of the layers because of the stickiness of latex on latex
3-It's not really needed as the layers are inside a cover already and you will probably only handle the layers a few times and then never open up the cover again
4-We do offer them if you want them, the cost is $40 per layer in a Queen size.

How do you sleep? I'm personally 5ft-10 160lbs, wider shouldered, small waist. Tend to sleep on my side or stomach. I think I like more of a medium firmness mattress. Definitely not into the sloppy super sunk in feeling all too much. I like the Tempurpedic teal firmness which is their middle firmness I beleive.


You will never get the same feeling out of a pure rubber mattress than you will from a Tempurpedic. Organic dunlop is the most supportive mattress material available, and has a high pushback factor. You will not sink into the mattress and will feel supported.

Good luck in your search, and keep us posted on what you decide to do.

regards
19 Aug 2019 12:47
  • Stefan416
  • Stefan416's Avatar

Overall I'd say I'm pretty happy with the mattress. I really liked the feel of it when it first arrived in the standard format of soft-soft-medium-firm. After a month or so it softened up significantly and didn't have the springy supportive feel that it had initially and after several months there were noticeable indentations on each side where my wife and I end up most of the time (we are both tall and light people.) This is with rotating the bed regularly. We've had the mattress for about 7 months or so now and I just reconfigured the layers slightly to get a bit more support so now it is soft-medium-soft-firm.

Hope this helps!


So glad you saw my post! Very interesting. I was considering not having the two soft layers and switching one to something else. Mario at MFC had suggested a firm in its place. So S/M/F/F/F which sounds like a good option although I dont know if I'd ever then switch the soft and medium ever. Alot of mattress use the 6 inch core which would be the same type of thing.

Regarding the impressions, that does seem kind of premature no? Their warranty states a minimum of 1.5 inches for warranties which seems like alot. I know Tempurpedic is 0.75 but that's not the same stuff at all.

Regarding the differing dimensions, I understand that latex is a little weird to deal with but sloppy cuts are a different matter. I stopped in to a local store and tried some GreenSleep models and they also have a layered system that isnt glued. They are actually individually put into cotton socks as well which is a nice addition.

How do you sleep? I'm personally 5ft-10 160lbs, wider shouldered, small waist. Tend to sleep on my side or stomach. I think I like more of a medium firmness mattress. Definitely not into the sloppy super sunk in feeling all too much. I like the Tempurpedic teal firmness which is their middle firmness I beleive.
12 Jun 2019 06:17
  • MFC
  • MFC's Avatar
Hi Light Sleeper,

I have a couple questions....
1. Regarding the manufacturer of the organic latex mattresses sold by MFC. the manufacturer name is Nature's Embrace. They make the Maoli and Unison latex mattresses. Nature's Embrace has their own website where people can purchase mattresses directly from them online, but the Maoli and Unison mattresses are not listed for sale on Nature's Embrace website. I noticed that Nature's Embrace is not listed on The Mattress Underground as one of your trusted members. Do you know if Nature's Embrace has a good reputation?


Nature's Embrace only sells GOLS certified organic dunlop latex, which is highly rated in the mattress industry and is used by reputable manufacturers in Canada such as Obasan, Greensleep, and Dormio amongst others.

The Maoli and Unison are not sold online by Nature's Embrace for two reasons.
1- They are made especially for MFC according to our specifications.
2- Since we are an online store and this allows us to sell for less, we do not want to compete with their brick and mortar stores on price.

2. The mattress cover for the Maoli mattress is made of 40% Tencel and 60% polyester. I contacted MFC and asked them if the polyester content could cause a problem with the breath-ability of the mattress. They responded that they have not had any issues with it. Have you ever heard of any negative issues with a Tencel cover?


WHAT IS TENCEL
Tencel fibre is the brand name for lyocell fibres manufactured by the house of Lenzing.

Tencel is a type of rayon cellulose fibre extracted from the wood pulp of sustainably grown Eucalyptus trees. Unlike other forms of Rayon, Tencel is manufactured in a closed loop cycle that recycles nearly 100% of all the organic compounds used during the manufacturing process. The patented system has earned them numerous accolades including the EU’s European Award for the Environment.

Tencel is an ideal fiber for latex mattresses due to it’s sustainability, strength and moisture absorbing properties.

CERTIFICATIONS
Third party Tencel certifications include:

Oeko-Tex Standard 100(Confidence in textiles – tested for harmful substances)
USDA BioPreferred (certified 100% bio-based)
FSC (Forest Stewardship Council)
European Eco-Label (environmentally friendly)
Din Certo (compostable)
Vincotte (compostable)
US BPI (compostable)
EcoCert (product life cycle)

BENEFITS OF TENCEL
Ecological Friendly
Accounting for the entire life cycle, Tencel is one of the most environmentally friendly fibres in the world. Derived from the wood pulp of sustainably grown Eucalyptus trees, the closed loop manufacturing process recycles nearly 100% of organic solvents used in the manufacturing process.

High Tensile Strength
Whether dry or damp, Tencel fibres retain their strength. These durable fibres can withstand decades of use making them an idea compliment to latex.

Moisture Absorbent
Tencel fibres absorb moisture into their unique cell structure until it can be evaporated away.

Soft to the Touch
The surface of Tencel is smoother than silk. Tencel is commonly used in face masks for the cosmetic industry due to its silky-smooth surface and absorbent properties.

Hygienic
The condition that allow bacteria to grow are greatly reduced due to the moisture absorbing properties of Tencel.

If you prefer a mattress cover that does not contain polyester, then we suggest you look at our Unison Organic Latex Mattress or Presto customizable organic mattress which are made with GOLS certified organic dunlop latex, and covered with a quilted virgin wool 100% organic cotton cover.

I forgot to mention that we have some concern with buying from MFC (even though they are thought highly of by The Mattress Underground) in that we are not able to 'test' their mattresses because they are nowhere near us. Does anyone know if there is a store in the Calgary are sells something similar to the Maoli? Also, MFC does not offer a sleep trial period and they do not allow a mattress to be returned if it doesn't work for us. It would be nice if we could have some assurance that the product we are thinking of purchasing would suit our needs.


Since we are an online store, we do not have any points of sale. This allows us to offer you great customer service and save you money.

If you need to try an organic dunlop latex to see how it feels, you can simply go to a mattress store that sells GOLS certified organic dunlop latex and try one in store. At that point you'll be able to do some comparative shopping online, since these mattresses are made with the same components (organic dunlop latex, organic cotton and wool) and all feel similar.

Furthermore our Presto Customizable Mattress offers 9-16 firmness options all in the same mattress.
Advantages of the Presto Customizable Mattress
-Makes mattress shopping a breeze! With up to 16 support and comfort options, in one mattress. (from soft to extra firm)
-Handy tailored top-zip cover, allows easy access to the loose foam layers inside your mattress, and holds them firmly in place.
-Simply rearrange the foam layers inside your mattress to personalize your comfort and support needs.
-If your comfort or support needs change in the future (due to illness, accident, or personal reasons), you can simply rearrange the foam layers in your mattress, or we can provide you with cost-effective layers to make the mattress feel, just the way you like!
-Should a layer prematurely wear out, or be ruined by a mishap, it can simply be replaced avoiding the hassle and cost of replacing the entire mattress. Resulting in less waste for our environment and more money in your pocket!
-Optimal mattress maintenance: By flipping the inner support layers annually, you renew and revitalize the entire mattress, whereas rotating a traditional mattress only helps maintain the top layers.
-No more time wasted trying and exchanging mattresses.
-Perfect for all sleepers; side, back and stomach.
-Made and shipped from Canada

Why we no longer accept returns:
MFC is dedicated to manufacturing quality memory foam and latex products through our use of quality materials and detailed craftsmanship. At MFC we do not sell used products (which includes all items on our website). For this reason, for hygienic concerns, and to avoid cross contamination, we feel that we have a moral and ethical responsibility to our customers to not re-sell used items and therefor are unable to accept returns or exchanges.

We accept exchanges only if the item is damaged at delivery and will cover all cost in the exchange process.

With such a policy in place we are able to guarantee the item you receive is brand new and has never been used by anyone else.

Furthermore we stand behind our products and your purchase is protected within our comprehensive limited warranties so that you can buy directly from us with confidence.

Are you sure you're buying a "new" mattress?
Did you know that mattresses and toppers are some of the only personal items that can be returned to the store after they have been used? Store do not accept returns on underwear, bras and other personal use items. But you can sleep nude in a bed for months, contaminate it with skin cells, hair, urine etc and return it if you're not happy with it!

What's worst is that it can be resold to you as new, because the Government of Canada has no legal obligation with respect to the sale of used mattresses and toppers. Yes, all mattresses by law must have a label that states “Contains New Material Only” this label was sown during the manufacturing process and has nothing to do with the condition of the mattress as being used or new!

What do stores do with returned mattresses?
If stores are not reselling your used mattress to someone else, then why do they require you to purchase a mattress protector to qualify for the trial period? Why do you need to use a mattress protector if the returned mattress will be disposed of?

Bed bugs can infiltrate a used mattress even with the use of a mattress protector. Furthermore they are extremely difficult to eradicate, and can spread into others mattresses and sofas around the house. These pest have become such a major health risk, that most charitable organizations will not accept used mattresses anymore.

Why choose a customizable mattress
In the last few years, we've seen more customers contact us to complain about mattresses they purchased only 2 or 3 years ago. They deplore the mediocre quality and sleep issues they have with their mattresses. The surprising fact, is that most bought them from a store that had a trial period, yet they remain unhappy with the choice they made. Actually most customers will be happy with any new mattress, as it's a significant improvement over a tired old mattress. However the real comfort issues appear long after the 90 day trial period.

For this reason we have developed the Presto which is a customizable mattress. The advantage is that you can fine tune your comfort and support preferences anytime you want. Discover this new ingenious mattress and stop playing the mattress trial and exchange game.

At MFC we are proud to sell only "new products"direct from the factory to you.

I hope this answers your questions, and offers you others options in your quest to find the mattress that's right for you.

All the best

Mario
24 Jul 2018 11:54
  • MFC
  • MFC's Avatar
Hi John667,

I really enjoyed the Greensleep mattress with only 2" soft on two layers of medium. I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but would it be possible to buy your Presto with 2 medium layers and only one soft layer? Would the price be the same?


Yes, we can make the Presto any way you like. If you want to get 2 medium layers the price would be the same. We can even make a replica of the one you liked from Greensleep.

It's really difficult to buy on the net without trying. 2 X 2" soft can be too soft and 1 X 2" soft on 2 mediums might be too hard. I don't know. However it seems to me that it's easier to get more softness than to make a mattress harder.

It's actually more difficult to make it softer, since you need to buy another soft layer, if the ones provided are not soft enough. To firm up the mattress all you need to do is move up the core.

All the best
24 Jul 2018 11:16
  • John667
  • John667's Avatar
Thanks for the explanation as for ILD vs. kg/m.3

I really enjoyed the Greensleep mattress with only 2" soft on two layers of medium. I'm not sure if I understand correctly, but would it be possible to buy your Presto with 2 medium layers and only one soft layer? Would the price be the same?

It's really difficult to buy on the net without trying. 2 X 2" soft can be too soft and 1 X 2" soft on 2 mediums might be too hard. I don't know. However it seems to me that it's easier to get more softness than to make a mattress harder.
24 Jul 2018 08:00
  • John667
  • John667's Avatar
Hi Mario, two more questions:

First one.

I asked GreenSleep for their mattress ILDs and here is their reply:

The only way to measure pure natural rubber is this way, it goes per firmness.

Soft Greensleep natural rubber is 65kg/m3
our medium is 70kg/m3
our firm is 85kg/m3

If you are quoted a different way to measure natural rubber, it isn’t pure and has been blended.


From what I now undestand, after some www.ergoflex-usa.com/ergoflex/377/What+does+the+ILD+rating+of+a+memory+foam+mattress+mean%3F research , it's that ILD only apply to foam:

ILD stands for Indentation Load Deflection. In simple terms it is a measurement of how hard or soft a foam is. In more accurate terms it's the number of pounds of pressure required to indent 4" of foam by 25% using a 50 square inch indentation. You may also see it referred to as the 25% ILD rating.


So how do you calculate the ILD of your layers and wouldn't that mean that you don't have pure latex but blended?

Second question:

I don't understand how it would make sense to put a softer layer below a firm one. Does it mean if I buy the Presto I can't have two medium layers and would absolutely have the two soft one? Wouldn't it make sense to make it more customizable? I mean: it's not a one size fits all from what I understand... Some people need more softness and others more firmness...
23 Jul 2018 05:04
  • MFC
  • MFC's Avatar
Hi John667,

Thanks Mario. This video of a 50 year old latex mattress is something to watch, indeed, but what about loss of support over the years? Wouldn't sleeping at the exact same spot night after night (and it's worse for a side sleeper because of the pressure points) would make it too soft without good enough support even if the mattress is still looking not that bad? How much % of support would such a mattress lose after, let's say, 10 to 15 years?


Yes, the dunlop latex will loose some support over the years, but you will still get over 20 years of use out of it. The advantage of our Presto customizable mattress is that each individual loose latex layer can be rotated and flipped, therefor increasing the support longevity of the mattress.

Yeah I think the cotton is not necessary, but from what the guy told me it helps because there shouldn't be too much humidity on latex.


Did you notice that when they opened the 50 year old mattress it did not have a separate cotton lining encasing the latex core under the cover yet it still was in good condition and we can only imagine what that mattress has been through....Plus most organic dunlop latex mattresses are covered with cotton and wool, that does an amazing job at regulating humidity in the mattress. We suggest getting a quality mattress protector to cover the wool quilted organic cotton cover, and that will provide all the protection your mattress requires.

BTW, do you offer some warranty or something? Do you have a physical address? Price looks better than GreenSleep at Matelas Bonheur, but what if something goes wrong with the wool cover in 5 years. Would I be able to buy such a cover anywhere else?



Yes, our product is covered by a 25 year warranty from "Nature's Embrace". Our physical address can be found here There's not much that can go wrong with the cover, but if ever you do get a mishap, its easy to buy a new cover from us, Nature's Embrace or any other manufacturer of organic latex beds.

BTW, do you know the ILD difference between your Presto and GreenSleep mattress?


Ours is listed below but It should be the same as Greensleep
S 2" 20 ILD
S 2" 20 ILD
M 3" 30 ILD
F 4" 40 ILD

Do you think 2 X 2" soft layers on top could be a bit too plush if I want the mattress to last and if I need good support (even as a side sleeper)? I also need pressure relief, but I wonder if 4" of soft material wouldn't be too much and create some problems for the back (sleeping like a banana). How to choose the right ILD? Would it be possible, for example with your Presto, to use (from top to bottom): 2" S, 2" M, 2" M and 4" F, with only one layer of soft and two mediums or is it mandatory to get 2 soft layers and only one medium? I know it's easier to deal with a mattress that is a bit too firm than one that is a bit too soft... I'd like to find a way to know what the correct mix would be for me as I know just laying in the showroom isn't that great a solution.



We've experimented with our Presto bed for 2 years, and the way it's set up now with the 4" firm core, 2" medium and 2 x 2" soft is the most popular with our customers. You can always firm it up the bed by simply placing a softer layer under the firm core. The closer you place the core to your body, the firmer the feel. If you want to see how this is actually done, please scroll down this page and look at the 3 animated gif's that show how it's done.


Did I answer all your question?
Please let me know if you need any further information.
All the Best!

Mario
22 Jul 2018 13:27
  • John667
  • John667's Avatar
Thanks Mario. This video of a 50 year old latex mattress is something to watch, indeed, but what about loss of support over the years? Wouldn't sleeping at the exact same spot night after night (and it's worse for a side sleeper because of the pressure points) would make it too soft without good enough support even if the mattress is still looking not that bad? How much % of support would such a mattress lose after, let's say, 10 to 15 years?

Yeah I think the cotton is not necessary, but from what the guy told me it helps because there shouldn't be too much humidity on latex.

BTW, do you offer some warranty or something? Do you have a physical address? Price looks better than GreenSleep at Matelas Bonheur, but what if something goes wrong with the wool cover in 5 years. Would I be able to buy such a cover anywhere else?

BTW, do you know the ILD difference between your Presto and GreenSleep mattress?

P.S. Do you think 2 X 2" soft layers on top could be a bit too plush if I want the mattress to last and if I need good support (even as a side sleeper)? I also need pressure relief, but I wonder if 4" of soft material wouldn't be too much and create some problems for the back (sleeping like a banana). How to choose the right ILD? Would it be possible, for example with your Presto, to use (from top to bottom): 2" S, 2" M, 2" M and 4" F, with only one layer of soft and two mediums or is it mandatory to get 2 soft layers and only one medium? I know it's easier to deal with a mattress that is a bit too firm than one that is a bit too soft... I'd like to find a way to know what the correct mix would be for me as I know just laying in the showroom isn't that great a solution.
22 Jul 2018 13:01
  • MFC
  • MFC's Avatar
Hi John667,

I'm happy you went to try out an organic dunlop latex mattress!

He said that latex mattresses only lose about 1% support per year, so even after 15 years you only lose 15%. He says he has have a Greensleep for 12 years and it's going strong and that such mattresses can last easily 15-20 years without any problem. I really have trouble believing this, as you don't flip the mattress and 20 years on the same spot seems like a lot. He said that in Europe people don't buy as many mattresses as here and sometimes the mattresses come with the house and can last 20 years without any problem. Do you believe this? If I buy a latex mattress, will it really last 20 years? Seems hard to believe!


Yes, you can easily get 20 years + out of a dunlop latex mattress. That's why most manufacturers feel confident enough to give you a 25 year warranty. Here is a video of a 50 year old dunlop latex mattress and as you can see on the video it's still in good condition.

He also told me to beware of other latex mattresses as sometimes they aren't "pure" latex. He told me Greensleep is 97% pure latex (the remaining 3% if to deal with the fact that latex coagulated on the trip from Malaysia to North America) but sometimes there are companies that advertise latex and it's not that pure and with lot of cheaper chemicals involved. True or false?


The whole story about "natural latex" is quite confusing, but it mostly applies to Talalay latex more here on the subject . In our experience all the organic dunlop latex is at least 95% rubber and the other ingredients include:
1-Organic Latex Rubber 90-95%
2-Zinc Oxide 2-3%
3-Fatty Acid Soaps 1-2%
4-Sulfur 1-2%
5-Sodium 1-2%

Greensheep is Dunlop and not Talaylay... What difference does it make at this point? He wasn't able to tell.

Please see this article on the pro's and con's of dunlop and talalay latex

Last thing... The King Size was about $3800 and the split king was like 5500$. The guy told me he simply cut his layers in half and bought independant double XL covers and made his own split king. I wonder if I'd have the balls to do this but it looks like a good way to save some money.

Yes, you could simply cut the layers yourself. The organic cotton sleeves are an option and not necessary in our opinion, as the latex is already well covered my the actual wool quilted organic cotton cover and do not to be covered a second time.
We can easily make you a KING split with a brass top zip wool quilted organic cotton cover with these specs
S 2"
S 2"
M 3"
F 4"
For 2995$ taxes and delivery included. This is our Presto mattress, and the latex layers are loose (like the greensleep) so that you can fine tune your comfort and support options.

Did I answer all your question?
Please let me know if you need any further information.
All the Best!

Mario
21 Jul 2018 09:22
  • John667
  • John667's Avatar
I went to Matelas Bonheur and did try Greensleep mattresses and they felt wonderful. I really liked those two (from top to bottom) :

A)

S 2"
M 3"
M 3"

and

B)

S 2"
S 2"
M 3"
F 3"

Very expensive, but it looks like quality. Not sure which one I prefer, as I lay down a lot on the bed to read or use computer, so I like some firmness, but I also sleep on the side so it must be soft. I like the idea that the second one has a firm layer, but it's much more expensive.

The seller made some affirmations that I'd like to verify.

He said that latex mattresses only lose about 1% support per year, so even after 15 years you only lose 15%. He says he has have a Greensleep for 12 years and it's going strong and that such mattresses can last easily 15-20 years without any problem. I really have trouble believing this, as you don't flip the mattress and 20 years on the same spot seems like a lot. He said that in Europe people don't buy as many mattresses as here and sometimes the mattresses come with the house and can last 20 years without any problem. Do you believe this? If I buy a latex mattress, will it really last 20 years? Seems hard to believe!

He also told me to beware of other latex mattresses as sometimes they aren't "pure" latex. He told me Greensleep is 97% pure latex (the remaining 3% if to deal with the fact that latex coagulated on the trip from Malaysia to North America) but sometimes there are companies that advertise latex and it's not that pure and with lot of cheaper chemicals involved. True or false?

Greensheep is Dunlop and not Talaylay... What difference does it make at this point? He wasn't able to tell.

Last thing... The King Size was about $3800 and the split king was like 5500$. The guy told me he simply cut his layers in half and bought independant double XL covers and made his own split king. I wonder if I'd have the balls to do this but it looks like a good way to save some money.
12 Apr 2018 14:02
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Robert101.

Welcome to our Mattress Forum! :)

Response to Post #17: You've brought up quite a few points (some of them perhaps unknowingly) and I'll try to deal with them one by one.

I am sorry to hear that you have issues with your new Tempurpedic Breeze. Not everyone likes the feel of a memory foam mattress as it has low resilience, high hysteresis and more of an “in the mattress” feel to it that changes in response to variations in temperature, humidity (both from the ambient environment and your own body) and length of time and it is subject to compression forces. It can feel firm in certain circumstances and soft under different conditions. Due to its viscous-elastic properties and more closed celled structure, it is very good at forming a pressure relieving cradle around your body, but it will generally be the least breathable and most insulating of the foam comfort materials, so temperature, as you noticed, can be an issue. You can read more about the pros and cons of memory foam in this article

- whats the difference between all the organic latex mattresses such as green sleep and sleeptek vs Berkley Egonomics etc.?


A forum search on Greensleep (Belgium manufacturer) and on Sleeptek (Canadian manufacturer) and Berkely Ergonomics (USA Manufacturer) specifically (you can just click these) will bring up more information and feedback about all of them. From a quality perspective there are no weak links in the materials of either item to sway the needle in the direction of one versus the other... and all of these mattresses use high-quality materials and could make very good choices based on the other parts of your "value equation" (see post #46 here ) that are most important to you.

Both Sleeptek and Greensleep use a Dunlop process to make their latex which is different from the Talalay process that Berkley uses. There are some videos linked in post #3 here that show the different production processes and there is also more about the differences between Talalay and Dunlop in post #7 here but you may notice a difference in feel (some people like one more over the other). Berkley Ergonomics uses European sourced Natural Talalay and pocket coils, (organic cotton, wool, and even camel down in some models) while Sleeptek and Greensleep don’t use springs. The difference between the items would be in the overall comfort and how that is achieved with the different componentry. Berkley uses the coil unit as a support layer as opposed to foam… it would be strictly a preference of your own personal PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences).

In terms of "material value" ... your choices are in the more premium end of the budget range compared to other mattresses that use similar materials but value has many components and each person has their own see personal value equation which is all the objective, subjective, and intangible factors that are the most important part of any mattress purchase. The suitability of a mattress in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences), the quality of the materials and components (including the cover and quilting which can be a significant part of the cost of a mattress), the ability to customize a mattress before and after a purchase, along with the knowledge and service of the retailer you are purchasing from are all important parts of value and for many people price is less of an issue than the many other parts of "value". The goal is always to make meaningful comparisons based on the criteria that are most important to you.

- is there a need for core of the mattress to be spring or all latex is preferred?


The most important “need” would be more connected with your own personal preferences and the feel that you are looking for. Making more generalized assessments of a mattress only based on one component doesn't take into account that all the layers in a mattress work together and will affect its feel and performance so either one could be part of a mattress that provides you with your pressure relief and alignment/support needs. Assuming that all the materials in a mattress are high quality ... everything boils down to which mattress design works best for the two basic functions of a mattress . Without going too much into technicalities both innersprings and a firmer latex core can be used as a core/support layer and each has very "different" characteristics. Both of them be made in many different designs and can come in softer or firmer versions with an innerspring that is firmer than a latex core or the other way around depending on the specifics of the components you are comparing.
There is more about the 4 main types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here and more detailed information about innersprings vs latex support cores in post #2 here and more about the different types and blends of latex in this article and in post #6 here .Some of the more technical differences include ...
• In general, latex will be more motion isolating than an innerspring.
• Firmer latex will be more durable than an innerspring but neither of them would tend to be the weak link of a mattress.
• Innersprings have more "air" in them so they would be more breathable than latex even though latex is the most breathable of the foam materials but the deeper layers of a mattress also have less effect on the ventilation and temperature of a mattress than the comfort layers.
• I know that this may not be of concern to you but most latex is more expensive than most innersprings.
• They "feel" very different with innersprings being more "bouncy" or "springy" than latex (although latex has more "spring" than other foam types).
• Innersprings have a more "flat line" response curve than latex ( see the graph here ) but because there are many types of innersprings with different response curves this doesn't always hold true and there are also different types of latex which would also have different response curves.
• Innersprings absorb less energy than latex which means they are more resilient. They "push back" more strongly than latex in other words but this is not the same as softness ... only about how much of the energy that is used to compress them is lost (or how high a ball will bounce when it's dropped on them).
• Latex has a similar or higher compression modulus than most innerspring spring rates and either gets firmer with deeper compression at a similar rate as an innerspring (Talalay) or at a faster rate than an innerspring (Dunlop) which means it can be more "supportive".
• Different innersprings have widely different abilities to take on the shape of the body (depending on the number of coils and how independently they function) while latex is much more "point elastic" than any of them because it can flex in each part of the core with less effect on the area around it than an innerspring.

There are many other more technical differences but the most important differences are the ones you can feel. Either of them can make a good choice for a support layer and in the end it really boils down to which one you tend to prefer. Both of them can provide good/support alignment. There are so many varieties of both that it's not really possible to make more specific comparisons outside of some of the more obvious and more "generic" differences that I've mentioned.

-when using a split king latex mattress (2 twin to form a king size) does one fill the gap between the 2 mattresses when its together? or if its without the mattress cover?..


I am assuming that you are asking this in connection with placing the split king on an adjustable base. As an aside, there is no single king version of power bases with the most common manufacturers and can only be ordered in a split king version, but the mattress on top of them can either be a single king-size or a split king size. The two halves of the adjustable bed can be programmed to operate together with a single remote.

As you mentioned, when you operate each side independently you would have to deal with the split in the middle and decide if feeling the split was worth the tradeoff of independent movement on each side. How much you would feel the split when the mattresses were flat would also depend on the specifics of the mattress and on how flush the top surfaces fit together. A mattress that has a more square shape with sharper (not rounded) upper edges with either latex or memory foam on top and that has no tape edge or seam on the upper edges would minimize or reduce the feel of any gap or split between them.

You can also get various types of "converters" which fill in the crack in the middle and attach the two halves together such as here and here and here and here but you would lose the ability of operating each half independently so you may be better off with a single king unless you want to keep the option open.

You could also use a single topper over both sides (preferably with the gap filled in) if the gap in between was uncomfortable but this would also eliminate the advantage of being able to adjust each side separately because it could damage the topper so it would probably be better to use a single king mattress rather than go in this direction unless again you wanted to keep the option of going back to a split king mattress open.

Having to deal with a crack in the middle that most people would feel if you tend to share or use the sleeping area in the middle for sleeping, cuddling, or other activities vs having a single sleeping surface without any gaps in the middle is one of the tradeoffs that each person would need to make for themselves to decide if the crack or gap in between was worth the benefits of having two mattresses that are independent of each other. It would really be a preference and lifestyle choice.

Hope this helps with your decision

Phoenix
Note to Twoods196: Thanks for your contribution and sharing your experience about your DIY.
18 Aug 2017 10:33
  • Latexdude
  • Latexdude's Avatar
Hi Phoenix & Everyone,

I've been sleeping on a Latexco zoned mattress (5) for the last 20 years and enjoying every minute of it although the last few years have demanded a bit of tweaking. I am now looking for a new one but despite many hours searching the net (including this fantastic forum), haven't yet found a suitable replacement and would greatly appreciate any advice from you. I live in Canada near Montreal.

Here's what I'm looking for:
- 100% (OK, 95%) natural Dunlop latex (ideally certified by GOLS and Eco Institut)
- Minimum of 3 zones (firmer around hip area is essential, the other zones less so. I'm a back sleeper)
- Total height between 8" & 10"
- Overall firmness very high, probably around 35-40 ILD for the hip area and around 30 for the rest
-Topper of about 2" softer latex
- Some sort quilted layer of wool+organic cotton to finish things up
- A progressive construction would be nice with for ex, a 3" extra firm bottom layer, a 4" zoned layer and a 2" soft topper

The Obasan Acadia 2.0 or 3.0 come very close but my preference would be for a molded zoned mattress rather than separate moving parts as I suspect I would feel them. Greensleep has a new zoned offering but with similar separate parts (and you can't choose the firmness individually, you just move around the soft, medium and firm that are provided) and the 3" topper is probably too thick for someone who want good support sleeping on their back.

Similarly, the Dormio Sleep System is interesting but has 5" of latex on top of the zones layer and is a bit expensive as the size I require would be a special order.

I'm waiting to hear from Nature's embrace who could probably custom make one for me but probably also at a cost.

The best option (and deal) was found at Naturelle Organic Beds with all kinds of customization and great specs on paper but posts in this forum from a few years ago seem to indicate an unreliable company. Anyone know if the situation has changed? The salesperson/owner was certainly knowledgeable and very nice in the pre-buying phase of the deal.

I am not considering a DIY mattress for the time being but am not totally averse to it.
Have I overlooked anything? Any company I'm not aware of?

Thanks in advance for any suggestions you may have,
Sincerely,
Latexman
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