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25 Oct 2020 10:33
  • DuckytheLoon
  • DuckytheLoon's Avatar
Hello, Phoenix!

Thank you so much again for the time spent on helping me and others. I apologize for how long it took for me to follow up--the thing is, I was waiting on my new mattress to be delivered! I ordered from Sleeping Organic on Labor Day and finally received my order on October 20th; they said that some components had been back-ordered. I ultimately chose them because they had a softer topper available.

In the meantime, I had been sleeping on an air mattress with an old memory foam topper, and my husband had been sleeping on the sofa. It absolutely does make a difference what you sleep on. In this time, I experienced inflammation of my rotator cuff that was so serious, the orthopedist and I thought I had torn it, despite not having engaged in heavy activity. The too-firm mattress was absolutely a factor in this; when I tried switching to my other side to spare my bad shoulder, I started experiencing similar pain in that one! Yikes. (My shoulder's still not quite recovered, but thank goodness for steroid shots!)

That brings me to my new mattress setup. From top to bottom, including current bedding:
i. 100% cotton Bates matelassé bedspread
ii. 100% cotton percale Riley flat sheet
iii. SoftStretch fitted sheet by Purple (67% rayon from bamboo viscose/23% polyester/10% Spandex)
iv. Mattress protector by Purple (100% TPU layer + 85% polyester/15% Spandex layer)
v. Sleeping Organic latex topper: 3" Talalay extra-soft (14-18 ILD)
vi. Sleeping Organic wool mattress encasement (holds two bottom layers)
vii. Split. Husband's side: 3" Dunlop medium (26-32 ILD); my side: Talalay medium (ILD 24-28)
viii. Split. Husband's side: 3" Dunlop firm; my side: Dunlop firm (36-40 ILD)
ix. Adjustable bed foundation (DynastyMattress DM9000S)

My husband is pleased with the support being more adequate than the Purple, and we both agree that the topper is softer than the Purple. There has also been no noxious offgassing and the entire setup was easier to handle because it wasn't anywhere near as heavy!

…however, it is still not soft enough for me. Can you believe it? Argh. My ridiculous diva body!! I know we've only had it for 5 days, but at this point in my mattress experience, I'm confident I can tell that it's the same problem. It is softer than the Purple, but not dramatically. I am still experiencing too much push-back overall and definitely too much pressure (not enough sinking in) on my shoulder. Sigh. I was careful to arrange my layers so that the side with the larger holes was up, too.

It seems that I do need to add a memory foam topper. I am reluctant to mess with any of the latex support layers unless necessary…the hassle and risk of losing proper support wouldn't be worth it. They seem to be doing a good job as it is.

My questions:
1. What thickness of memory foam would be appropriate? Would 4" be excessive or just right? I want enough depth to accommodate my shoulder (not that I have large shoulders).
2. What would be an ideal density for my purposes? How far under or over 4lb density should I go? I understand that higher density memory foam is more durable, but I have seen conflicting information about how it might impact its "softness." For reference, Tempurpedic memory foam beds were not nearly soft enough, especially their models purported to be "cooling."
3. On cooling: have any gel memory foams or other strategies for cooling advanced enough at this point to consider them? We tend to be cold when we first get in bed, and get hot later in the night. I've even found the latex to be a bit hot. This leads me to my next two questions…
4. Mattress protector: what would be most appropriate, with an emphasis on cooling/sweat-wicking, waterproofing, and allowing the softness of the topper to be felt? The Purple protector we have at the moment is stretchy, thin and noiseless, but I don't know if it might be contributing to heat problems. I see wool cited a lot as a good material. Are there any particular models/merchants that would be satisfactory? This is another jungle to me…so many are quilted or padded on top, and my concern is that padding/lack of stretch would interfere with the topper feel.
5. Fitted sheet: Similarly to the question above, do you think it is necessary to have a "stretchy" sheet to experience the softness of the topper? Normally, I prefer cotton (percale or flannel, not sateen) and linen, but these are decidedly not elastic. Trying to weigh cooling vs. stretching benefits. Honestly, if the topper is soft enough, it might not matter if nothing else is elastic, just as long as there's enough slack to allow sinking in. I might be getting paranoid, haha.

Anything you might be able to tell me would be appreciated (as always!). I want to solve the issue ASAP so my shoulder doesn't, I don't know, explode or fall off. Who knows at this point? ;-)

By the way: the return of the Purple was ridiculously simple. I really appreciated all the different options, the efficiency, and the complete lack of rigmarole. We chose to have a service that coordinates with charities come by and pick it up, because it can be tricky to find a charity that will directly accept mattresses. Contact was swift and simple. They came by, carried it out for us, wrapped it up, and gave us a receipt. I took a picture of the receipt, emailed it to Purple, and they immediately processed my complete refund on the mattress. It was easier than returning an item to Amazon. Such a relief we didn't have to carry that back-breaking beast back out. The charity folks cheerfully declined our offers of help...they made it look so easy! They already had another donated mattress in the back of their truck, so I guess practice makes perfect. I wish I was that tough!
10 Dec 2019 02:55
  • xjxkx
  • xjxkx's Avatar
I'm currently shopping for an adjustable base for a queen sized latex mattress. Looking for a model with pillow tilt, lumbar support, and preferably wall hugging capabilities. I've found quite a few options and am having trouble narrowing it down at this point, so I'm opening up to feedback from anyone who owns/has tried or is familiar with these models and/or companies. Considering all factors (build quality, features, warranty, overall value) would you recommend one over the other?

And with some of the lesser known companies (like dynasty and sven & son) are there legitimate reasons (warranty, build quality, etc) to stick with one of the more popular brands like L&P or are these reliable contenders?

Models I'm Looking At:

Dynasty DM 9000S: dynastymattress.com/products/our-newest-and-best-adjustable-bed-base-the-dm9000s-series?variant=13216905920555
Sven and Son Platinum svenandson.com/collections/adjustable-beds/products/elite-adjustable-base
Leggett and Platt Prodigy Comfort Elite lpadjustablebeds.com/product/prodigy-comfort-elite
Ergomotion Elite www.ergomotion.com/products/adjustable-bases/elite/
Ergomotion 8300 www.amazon.com/Softide-8300-Ergomotion-Adjustable-King-White/dp/B01HGCRSOK
BEAUTYREST BLACK LUXURY www.beautyrest.com/complete-bases/black-luxury-base/
Serta iComfort Motion Custom II www.searsoutlet.com/br/pdp/serta-icomfort-icomfort-motion-custom-ii-adjustable-base-queen/159951
TEMPUR ERGO EXTEND ADJUSTABLE BASE www.tempurpedic.com/bases-and-foundations/tempur-ergo-extend/v/2562/

Any recommendations for/against would be greatly appreciated, especially if you own any of these models. Or if I've missed a good option, feel free to let me know. Thanks!
03 Dec 2017 23:08
  • Csj0952
  • Csj0952's Avatar
I bought a new firm coil mattress cause I'm a stomach sleeper and I'm getting some pretty bad lower back pain in the morning unless I put 3 folded towels under my stomach to actually raise my spine up a bit more. I actually think it's cause my mattress could be too firm where my thighs and arm which lays under my pillow which my head sits on doesn't sink into the mattress much. I've been on this mattress for 3 weeks now so I think it's somewhat "broken in". It's almost like I want the mattress to give more near my thighs and knees as well as my shoulder area but not under my lumbar spine.

I included some photos here: imgur.com/a/itCs9

The mattress I'm on is called

Dynasty Firm from Jamestown mattress:
Foam in the quilted panel:
1/2" - 1.8 lb. density - 20 ILD
1" - 1.8 lb. density - 34 ILD
Comfort Layer:
1" - 1.8 lb. density - 35 ILD

I could have them redesign it to a:

Dynasty Plush:
Foam in the quilted panel:
1 1/2" - 1.8 lb. - 20 ILD
Comfort Layer:
1" - 1.8 lb. density - 35 ILD
3/4" - 1.5 lb. density - 33 ILD

or a Eurotop mattress which is:
Dynasty Plush:
Foam in the quilted panel:
1 1/2" - 1.8 lb. - 20 ILD
Comfort Layer:
1" - 1.8 lb. density - 35 ILD
3/4" - 1.5 lb. density - 33 ILD
2” – 1.8 lb. density – 35 ILD in the Euro Top portion of the mattress
28 Oct 2017 11:10
  • TheFriskyFairy
  • TheFriskyFairy's Avatar
Hi friends!
I've been lurking this forum for a while, while I've been researching, and I've been researching a new mattress for about 2 years at this point. I'm looking at getting one of the millennial, bed in a box mattresses. I need a Queen mattress for my partner and myself that's good for a heavy weight (300+lb) but I also need one that's pretty sturdy in general as we are not gentle on our current mattress.

My current mattress is a ...Serta or something that I inherited, but the sides were sagging already when I got it, and now (2 years later) I am waking up with regular neck and back pain (in spite of replacing all my pillows, etc.) I have chronic pain already and I spend a decent amount of time in my bed sitting and laying.

I was looking at Big Fig, Helix, Loom and Leaf, Saatva, the DynastyMattress and a few others, and I've been looking at the forums here, but I'm having quite a lot of analysis paralysis and it's really stressing me out. I would appreciate any guidance.
23 Oct 2017 05:06
  • Csj0952
  • Csj0952's Avatar
Thanks. Question. Is there any issues with going with a euro top mattress I need to be aware of if I check the components such as foam density and coil specs? I’m going to try this guy today which they claim lands between a firm and plush. jamestownmattress.com/super-firm-euro-top-one-sided-dynasty-mattress/
21 Oct 2017 11:26
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Csj0952,

Might consider driving an hour and a half to sleepmastermattress.net/ in syracuse per your recommendation but their website is junk and doesn't even say what they sell as far as spring mattresses go.


Many mattress manufactures are much better at making mattresses than they are at marketing, but I wouldn’t agree with you that their web site is “junk”. They provide general descriptions of the various lines they produce, but being a manufacturer there are hundreds of options they could produce, so it would be impossible for them to list all of their possible mattress permutations. As you are a distance away, a phone call certainly would be in order before making a trip.

Sleepmaster is a local factory direct manufacturer in Syracuse and Cicero, NY. They manufacture their own line as well as WJ Southard and Bemco mattresses. They make a wide range of all types of mattresses in a wide range of budgets from innersprings to memory foam to latex and use better materials and have better value than the larger manufacturers that are so common in the mainstream industry. Post #9 here will give you an idea of the type of experience you can expect there. I think highly of them and there are some good quality choices available here.

I'm on sleep ez Firm talalay 2 inch top, and 2 dunlop 3 inches at extra firm. Looking up the numbers on your site, firm = 39 ILD, and extra firm = 44 ILD in sleep ez


SleepEZ rates their firm Dunlop and Talalay at 37-40 ILD, and their Extra Firm at 44.

So in theory, the firm poly in the comfort layer of the dynasty spring mattress is lower ILD than the Latex Firm talalay i'm sleeping on now.....
Can ILD of 35 in a poly feel firmer than a 39 in talalay?
I'm just trying to figure out plush vs firm. Firm felt better but still worried.


Nothing can replace your own testing and the comfort that you feel, as all of the layers of a mattress work together.

Polyfoam ILD (or IFD which is more commonly used in polyfoam) is measured differently than ILD in latex. Both use ILD/IFD at 25% compression (although some manufacturers use 40% ILD in Europe or Asia which would be different again) but with polyfoam it's measured with a 4" layer which means that the IFD is the force it takes to compress the layer by 1" while latex ILD is measured on a 6" layer so ILD is the force it takes to compress the core by 1.5" (which takes more force). This means that polyfoam would actually be firmer in the same ILD than latex at compressions of exactly 25%.

In addition to this though ... ILD is not the most reliable indicator of how soft or firm a layer will feel. Compression modulus is even more important because very few people actually sink into a layer exactly 25% and compression modulus is the rate at which a foam gets firmer as you compress it more. Latex has a higher compression modulus than polyfoam. In addition to this ... latex is very "point elastic" which means that a smaller area can compress with less effect on or resistance from the surrounding area than polyfoam. This is much like the difference between pocket coils that act individually and innersprings that have helicals that join the springs together so that the compression of each spring will affect the springs around it which makes the spring stiffer.

In addition to this ... latex has a lower hysteresis (how much energy is absorbed) and conversely a higher resilience (how much energy it returns) than polyfoam so there are also factors that can make latex feel firmer depending on how much a specific layer is compressed in a mattress. Because of its unique qualities and ability to take on the shape of the person on it (point elasticity) it can feel softer and firmer at the same time and some will feel it as one or the other depending on what they are more sensitive to, their body type, sleeping position, and how they sink into the mattress.

Typically how long should I lay on a mattress before my muscles typically can relax into it or do you recommend any other things to attempt to notice when testing a mattress?


You may want to read through this short article of five steps to finding a mattress and some testing guidelines where I provide some general guidelines for that.

Phoenix
20 Oct 2017 22:27
  • Csj0952
  • Csj0952's Avatar
So went to Jamestown mattress today again. Laid on the Plush and the Firm. Didn't fall in love with either really. I liked the Firm better but I'm scared it just feels that way now but it will be too firm come morning. I don't know why, it's the firmest mattress they make so I'm not sure it's too forgiving. Might consider driving an hour and a half to sleepmastermattress.net/ in syracuse per your recommendation but their website is junk and doesn't even say what they sell as far as spring mattresses go.

My BMI again is 25. Stomach sleeper. I'm on sleep ez Firm talalay 2 inch top, and 2 dunlop 3 inches at extra firm. Looking up the numbers on your site, firm = 39 ILD, and extra firm = 44 ILD in sleep ez. I emailed the guy from Jamestown mattress about the dynasty lineup and he said the following.

Dynasty Firm:
Foam in the quilted panel:
1/2" - 1.8 lb. density - 20 ILD
1" - 1.8 lb. density - 34 ILD
Comfort Layer:
1" - 1.8 lb. density - 35 ILD

Dynasty Plush:
Foam in the quilted panel:
1 1/2" - 1.8 lb. - 20 ILD
Comfort Layer:
1" - 1.8 lb. density - 35 ILD
3/4" - 1.5 lb. density - 33 ILD

So in theory, the firm poly in the comfort layer of the dynasty spring mattress is lower ILD than the Latex Firm talalay i'm sleeping on now.....

Can ILD of 35 in a poly feel firmer than a 39 in talalay?

I'm just trying to figure out plush vs firm. Firm felt better but still worried.

Typically how long should I lay on a mattress before my muscles typically can relax into it or do you recommend any other things to attempt to notice when testing a mattress?

Also remember I'm coming from a mattress I laid on for 7 years:
Sealy Beachside

Quilt - Top of Mattress
1 ounce Flame Guard Fiber
1 1/2 x 1/2" Convoluted SuperSoft SealyFoam
1/2" SuperSoft SealyFoam

Comfort Layers
1" SuperSoft SealyFoam (unknown ILD)

SpringFree Core
8.9" Luxury Latex (unknown ILD)


Update: last night i slept on my Sleep ez and for the first time I was starting to get tingling in the shoulder area suggesting it's probably too hard. This leans me to plush, but I guess I'm going to drive 1.5 hr to syracuse now to see what they have.
16 Oct 2017 22:24
  • Csj0952
  • Csj0952's Avatar
To answer your question, the mattress from Jamestown is here: jamestownmattress.com/firm-two-sided-dynasty-super-mattress/

Quilt – Top of Mattress

Paladin® Fire Retardant Barrier

½” Plush Polyurethane Foam

1” Firm Polyurethane Foam

Stretch Circular Knit Fabric

Comfort – Padding Layer

Thick Polyester Pad

1” Firm Polyurethane Foam

Back Support System

Coil Unit: Symetrics® 660 Offset Technology

Coil Gauge: 14 ½

Metal Edge: Support on Sides

Limits Motion Transfer

Coil Count:

Twin: 462
Full: 660
Queen: 805
King: 1015

Based on that info, i searched for more info and found this which is based on latex mattress from the same place, I gotta think they use the same foam toppers though in a spring mattress...

www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/index/18136-feedback-requested-jamestown-mattress-polyfoam-thoughts-towards-online-purchase.html

It appears as though they use somewhat decent foam at 1.5lb to 1.7 from the above thread. My last concern is breathability here and sleeping cool. Is polyfoam cool to sleep on? I'm assuming air spring mattress should be cooler than latex foam which I like but I'm wondering how that polyfoam is going to sleep.
01 Jun 2017 06:52
  • knit1hike2
  • knit1hike2's Avatar
Hi Phoenix. So I have tested the various latex densities on my new mattress and I am still waking up with a backache. I can actually feel my muscles wanting to contract/tense up during the night while I am laying on my back. (One night I actually slept on an old mattress with a divot in it and my back was fine. Not so great on the shoulders though!) In an earlier post you mentioned that maybe the quilt top layer was too plush for me (3"). Do you think it's possible that regardless of the firmness of the deep comfort layer, that the quilt top could still be causing the problem? I am at a point where I have to make a change and am wondering if a traditional innerspring mattress with less padding on top would be a better option. (Although I suspect that my shoulders will not be happy!) Jamestown has another mattress line called "Dynasty" that might fit this bill. What do you think? Thank you!!!
02 May 2017 17:08
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi bedsearching,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

Amazon is offering a Reverie 8Q split King size frame with a Dynasty cool breeze gel memory foam mattress


You can see some comments about Dynasty in posts #3 and #4 here and a forum search on Dynasty (you can just click the link) will bring up more comments and information about them as well. I would want to know the density of all of the foam layers within the mattress.

I would also keep in mind that there is always some additional risk and uncertainty involved in buying a mattress that is made in China or other imported mattresses that may be subject to longer periods of compression during shipping and storage that can sometimes affect the durability and useful life of the mattress (see post #6 here ).

I would also put much more emphasis on the return policy of an online purchase (and the costs involved) so that you can decide on whether a mattress is a good "match" for you and how well you sleep on it based on your own experience rather than using other people's experience that may be very different from your own.

Without knowing the density of the foam layers I can't make any meaningful comments about the other mattresses you mentioned but if you can find out the information in this article about any of them I'd certainly be happy to make some comments about them

There is information about choosing an adjustable bed in post #3 here and the main adjustable bed topic that it links to that can help you choose an adjustable bed based on price vs features comparisons and also includes some retailers that you can use as good sources of information about the features of the adjustable beds. I would consider all the major adjustable bed manufacturers to be closely comparable in terms of reliability so I would use price and feature comparisons to choose between them.

I just wanted to know if anyone has ever had this mattress and what they thought of it, I tend to like my mattress on the firmer side so any comments would be helpful as the thought of buying a mattress sight unseen or lay upon is odd to me at the least.


While other people's comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful ... I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about using anyone else's suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words ... reviews or other people's experiences in general won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ).

There are also no "standard" definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like "medium" for someone else or even "soft" for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they "rate" a mattress as well (see post #15 here ) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. So your opinion of what you like (on the “firmer side”) is relative only to you and in the end won’t be of much use compared to other people’s opinions, based upon what I’ve previously mentioned.

The best advice I can offer is that you read the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else or whether it will be a good "match" in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress ... outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc.) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences or to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else.

A good online retailer or manufacturer will generally make suggestions that they honestly believe have the best chance of success based on the information you provide them when you talk to them on the phone because this is in both your own and their best interests but again ... at the end of the day the only way to know for certain whether any specific mattress is a good match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP will be based on your own careful testing and/or your own personal experience so if you can't test a specific mattress in person then the options you have available after a purchase to either exchange the mattress or individual layers or components or return the mattress for a refund (and any costs involved) would generally become a more important part of your personal value equation just in case a mattress you purchase doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for.

Of course if an online retailer or manufacturer only sells one mattress then that's the only one they can suggest (although some may have different firmness levels that they can help you choose between) so they will generally suggest trying it and then sending it back if it's not "good enough" for you to keep (assuming that they have a good trial period and return policy).

Phoenix
02 May 2017 12:11
  • bedsearching
  • bedsearching's Avatar
So my wife wants an adjustable bed with a foam mattress. I visited my local retailers who all want exorbitant amounts of money for a bed and mattress. I gave up on that but did gain knowledge of manufacturer names that I've been able to find them online for less. At this point I just want it done reasonable priced and Amazon is offering a Reverie 8Q split King size frame with a Dynasty cool breeze gel memory foam mattress for 2499.00 delivered including set up in the home. I just wanted to know if anyone has ever had this mattress and what they thought of it, I tend to like my mattress on the firmer side so any comments would be helpful as the thought of buying a mattress sight unseen or lay upon is odd to me at the least. Any additional resources for lower cost packages would also be welcome, and any insight on Reverie versus Leggett & Platt beds?
08 Feb 2017 10:13
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi digiorknow,

Thanks for the reply Phoenix. I hadn't seen the durability guidelines before. Based off those guidelines, it seems the Serenity and Gaffney options are both top-notch.

Leaving out the unknown of the polyfoam core density of the Serenity, all of the other layers seem to be good quality materials, and the Gaffney also uses high quality materials.

they mainly sell those mattresses because they're "100% Chemical Free".

There is no “chemical free” mattress (even pure water is a chemical ), and all latex foam (including 100% natural Dunlop and Talalay and organic latex) uses a small amount of chemicals to manufacture the latex (see post #18 here ) but the manufacturers don't release the specifics of their compounding formula which is a closely guarded secret.

While I'm not a chemical engineer so I can't speak to all the differences in their chemical formulations ... the two main "chemical" differences between Talalay and Dunlop is that Talalay latex uses carbon dioxide gas as a gelling agent while Dunlop latex uses sodium fluorosilicate. Natural Dunlop latex is also often manufactured closer to the latex plantations so in many cases it needs less ammonia or other stabilizing agents to stabilize the latex and prevent it from coagulating or putrefying before it's used while Talalay is made in Holland (Radium) or in the USA (Talalay Global) so the liquid field latex they use may contain higher levels of ammonia or other chemicals to stabilize it before it's used to manufacture the latex. Most of the ammonia is removed during the foaming process either way.

The real issue that I would focus on is safety which depends on the specific chemicals and the amount of each chemical (safety is dosage related) and the only way to identify any safety issues would be based on the lab testing and certifications for the materials and components in the mattress or the mattress as whole.

The only reliable way to assess the "safety" of different materials in more general terms is based on lab tests and the certifications they have for harmful substances and VOCs so that you have some assurance than the VOCs are below the testing limits for the certification (see post #2 here for more information about some of the more reliable "safety" certifications). If the materials in a mattress or the mattress itself has a reliable "safety" certification then for most people they would certainly be "safe enough" ... regardless of the type of material or the name of the manufacturer on the label.

I feel like the Dynasty by Winndom is also a good mattress, but I wasn't able to obtain a spec sheet. "The 2” latex topper used in that mattress is all natural, and has an ILD of 14 with a 4 lb density. The latex that is quilted into the cover is the same. I will attach a video that shows all of the benefits of the spring unit we use in that mattress (we use the Quantum Edge).

Based upon the information on their web site, the WInndom seems to use Mountain Top Foam, 100% Natural, in the continuous pour Dunlop process. The would be a high quality material, but you’d still want a complete listing of all of the componentry within the mattress.

This is where I found out about the Active Edge thing (sorry about the boxspring typo). What is your opinion on Active Edge? He didn't give me any info on coil type or gauge size, just the active edge video

Leggett and Platt (and others) have been producing innerspring units with a steel spring edge system for a few years now. These tend to work better on adjustable bed base units, and depending upon the configuration, can hold up better along the edge than a polyfoam system, are easier to compress and ship, and also have a more “gradual” transition from the main part of the mattress to the edge. Like any innerspring unit, there are different variations, but in general the innerspring unit itself is usually not the wink link within a mattress.

Winndom is a smaller company based out of Roanoke, VA, which isn't too far from myself.

If you’re interested in their mattresses, you may wish to phone them and see if they have a showroom on site or allow consumers to visit.

I've looked at the list of trusted online retailers of latex mattresses on the site. Do you know of any that offer 2 sided specifically?

Off the top of my head, Bay Bed, My Green Mattress, and SleepEZ offer two-sided latex mattresses. A few others do custom orders and may be able to configure what you’re looking for, but you’d want to place a phone call with them.

Also, if you have a two sided latex mattress, is it okay to not use a box spring? I have a platform bed so I keep imagining the bed slats deforming the comfort layer.

Most latex mattress manufacturers will prefer that your mattress be place upon a firm un-flexing surface, as opposed to an active coil box spring. If you’re using a slatted platform bed, slats with reinforcement in the center with 3” or less between them would be recommended. Proper foundations for latex mattresses are discussed in more details here in the foundation thread .

Phoenix
07 Feb 2017 18:16
  • digiorknow
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Thanks for the reply Phoenix. I hadn't seen the durability guidelines before. Based off those guidelines, it seems the Serenity and Gaffney options are both top-notch. The only question mark with the Serenity is the density of the core, so I'll have to find that out. I feel like the Dynasty by Winndom is also a good mattress, but I wasn't able to obtain a spec sheet. Winndom isn't a Sleep Essentials brand, they mainly sell those mattresses because they're "100% Chemical Free". Before my forum post, I contacted Winndom via email looking for info on the Dynasty and this was their response:

"The 2” latex topper used in that mattress is all natural, and has an ILD of 14 with a 4 lb density. The latex that is quilted into the cover is the same. I will attach a video that shows all of the benefits of the spring unit we use in that mattress (we use the Quantum Edge).

beddingcomponents.com/campaign/active?utm_source=Nov_22&utm_campaign=Furn_Today&utm_medium=print_ad"

This is where I found out about the Active Edge thing (sorry about the boxspring typo). What is your opinion on Active Edge? He didn't give me any info on coil type or gauge size, just the active edge video. Winndom is a smaller company based out of Roanoke, VA, which isn't too far from myself.

I've looked at the list of trusted online retailers of latex mattresses on the site. Do you know of any that offer 2 sided specifically? Also, if you have a two sided latex mattress, is it okay to not use a box spring? I have a platform bed so I keep imagining the bed slats deforming the comfort layer.
07 Feb 2017 11:21
  • phoenix
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Hi digiorknow,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

After feeling more informed, I set out Saturday to some local/regional retailers to find find my mattress. These are the three that felt the most comfortable, from 3 different retailers:

While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

I'm assuming that you've read the mattress shopping tutorial here but two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists (based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you).

While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else or whether it will be a good "match" in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress ... outside of PPP (which is the most important part of "value"), the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

Serenity Latex Mattress

This model (you included specs for all of their models, two of which use memory foam) does use better quality materials (latex on each side), although I’m not sure if they use a 3” piece of the lower ILD on one side and a 3” piece of the firmer ILD on the other side, or if there are two pieces of latex on each side of varying thicknesses. Also, the polyfoam core density isn’t listed, as you mentioned, and you’d want to know that. OMF does make some mattresses using higher-quality materials.

Winndom, Dynasty Mattress – Sleep Essentials

Can you provide a link to this product? It doesn’t show on the Sleep Essentials web site, so I can’t make any meaningful comments about it. And the other link you included was for an innerspring unit from Leggett and Platt, not a box spring. This is a newer offering using steel for the edge reinforcement instead of polyfoam and is being used increasingly within the industry.

Berkeley Ergonomics, Gaffney Mattress - The Organic Bedroom

This model also uses high quality componentry, with the latex and various pocketed coil systems. I think highly of Berkeley Ergonomics and the design/components they use in their products.

One of my main concerns is if I should try and get a two sided mattress or not. My gut tells me this will last longer but I'm not sure if it is worth the extra money.

All things being equal in the quality of componentry, a two-sided mattress should give you a longer comfort life than a one-sided product. In a latex configuration like the OMF, that product would be durable in both one- and two-sided configurations.

My second concern is that I'm missing out on the online market. I really liked the all latex mattress at OMF, but I feel like I could get the same comfort from a less expensive mattress purchased online.

While the configurations would be different, so the feel of course would vary, there are many online options offering high-quality component latex systems. You could start with the members listed in post #21 here who are all very experienced and knowledgeable and specialize in providing the type of help and guidance on the phone that can help you make good choices. I believe that all of them compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency.

If you reply back with the link to the second mattress in your list, I can complete my reply to your questions.

Phoenix
13 Aug 2016 10:44
  • phoenix
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Hi kenl,

They are different foundations made by different manufacturers.

I'm not sure what type of mattress you are purchasing and different manufacturers may have different requirements for a foundation that meets their warranty criteria but a mattress with a polyfoam support core (regardless of the material in the comfort layers) will generally do best with a firm, flat, and evenly supportive support surface underneath it that has minimal to no flex under the mattress and for larger sizes with at least one center support beam that has good support to the floor to prevent any sagging in the middle of the mattress. The components (either a bedframe and foundation or a platform bed) need to be strong and durable enough to support the weight of the mattress and the people sleeping on it without some of the parts bending, sagging, shifting, or breaking with extended use. The support surface under the mattress (which may be slats or a solid surface or a steel or wire grid) should have enough surface area to prevent the mattress from sagging through any gaps or spaces in the support surface over time but still allow some airflow under the mattress. If a foundation or a platform bed has a slatted surface then I would suggest that the gaps between any slats are no more than about 5" (with 1 x 3 slats) although I would strongly suggest 4" or less which would be better yet.

If your mattress has a latex support core then I would use 3" gaps as a maximum guideline although once again less would be better yet.

The slats in the Arizona Premium foundation are about 2.5" apart.

Based on a number of comments about the Lucid foundation the wood may be lower quality (or their quality control isn't as good as it could be) and some of the information about the distance between the slats in the questions and answers are clearly wrong but based on the number of slats (13) and on a reply by Dynasty mattress I believe the slats are about 3.75" apart.

Phoenix
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