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Searched for: bowles
03 Jan 2021 16:02
  • sleepseeker2021
  • sleepseeker2021's Avatar
I am so happy to have found this site and wish I had found it before I started my mattress journey! I have purchased and tried at least 5 different mattresses over 4 years. Biggest issue is I sleep hot and need pressure relief from SI joint (hip) damage. I'm mainly a side sleeper but also sleep on my back sometimes. I'm petite, 5'0 and 120 lbs, and husband is 6'0, 160lbs side sleeper. We both prefer a medium-soft mattress. We have an S-cape Adjustable base. We have natural bedding, keep the thermostat at 65. I've tried the "bed jet" and also Sleep Number's Dual Temp layer - the Dual Temp I may go back to if I can't find a better option, but did not like the way it made the mattress feel.
As far as mattresses, we've tried:
1- Charles P. Rogers Powercore Nano2 - (they told me this is the predecessor to the Estate Lifetime 5 currently offered). We bought in 2016 back before they had a trial policy. It was too firm from the start and also slept hot despite the Talalay latex. Rather than fight about a return I went the topper route. Tried a wool one but still felt it was too firm and hot. A "cooling" Costco gel foam topper made it bearable to sleep on my side but was always hot. When we moved this year I decided to leave the mattress behind and try something new. I still have it in storage.
2 - WinkBeds - soft - way too unsupportive and hot. Returned
3 - Casper Original Hybrid - too firm and hot. Returned
4 - Sleep Number i8 - too little cushioining and hot. Returned.
5 - Sleep Number i10 - supposedly their most cool mattress - what a joke. I'm baking in it every night. Even my husband notices it's hot. Have until April to return.

Based on the bad experience with even the CPR sleeping hot I am very concerned I'm getting hot due to latex and am trying to assess the following options - or any others anyone recommends:
1. "Natural" mattress like Naturepedic latex-free. I am leaning towards Naturepedic and will travel to a store to test it out soon. Very intrigued by the ability to swap comfort layers but this now has me thinking about just DIY...
2. DIY (re-using parts of my Charles P Rogers? It doesn't have a zipper encasement so would have to cut open and maybe swap out the latex wtih what?? Plus it was firm due to the coils so not sure how we'd even fix that?) but don't really have the time to do this. I am worried about foregoing latex for the pressure-relief it offers but can't stand sleeping so hot. If Purple/Intellibed made a topper I'd see if I could try that in lieu of the latex but am not finding any toppers of the "buckled column gel" material.
3. Vispring and it's an option too but I don't like not having a return option with such a large purchase. I'm also open to something like Hastens or Duxiana but haven't tested in a store and really want a decent return policy anyway.
4. Local mattress company options (Bowles, Holder) but nothing seemed that great, no return options just exchange, and pretty sure they use foam/latex...
5. Tried the Purple and was intrigued but just not sure.
Does anyone have any other ideas or recommendations? Best bets for pressure relief without latex or foam? Know of any "buckled column gel" (Purple material) toppers? Thank you!
04 Dec 2020 09:21
  • Sensei
  • Sensei's Avatar
Hey cfralick,

Welcome to the Mattress Underground :) ! Thanks for your question.

Hi, my wife and I purchased a house in March. We have both been on a queen bed all of our life, even since we have lived together and been married. We recently took a week long trip and were on a King bed in our hotel so, between enjoying that experience and our queen size bedroom set looking too small for our new master bedroom, we are ready to pull the trigger on a new mattress and bedroom set.


Congrats on both your new home purchase and new mattress shopping journey :) ! With this transition, you likely have many projects to consider and upgrading your current bedroom set from a queen to a king is an exciting first step for your new master bedroom.

I thought I had a decent idea of what we wanted and where to look/buy and then I stumbled on this site and realized I know very little and even less on where to start. All of the guides and tips have been VERY helpful. I have spent the last few days looking through items and topics but don't feel that I have been able to narrow down anything besides we need to 1) lay on as many types of beds as possible and 2) shop from local factory direct stores. I was hoping a moderator or someone here could help at least narrow down my direction so I can get started.


Thanks for your kind words on the site cfalick; they are much appreciated. You have made a good start by coming to the TMU for your research and reviewing Phoenix's articles as a guide, your above assessment is spot on regarding store visits. Don't be discouraged that you "don't feel that I have been able to narrow down anything besides we need to 1) lay on as many types of beds as possible and 2) shop from local factory direct stores. I was hoping a moderator or someone here could help at least narrow down my direction so I can get started", as these are part of the important first steps for narrowing down choices.

I am in Cincinnati Ohio and have gathered that the following are places local that I should visit. Did I miss any?
1) Bowles
2) Denver Mattress Co
3) Original Mattress Facotry
4) Sleep Tite Mattress Factory


Just for clarity, I don’t make recommendations for stores unless they are a vetted member here of the site. We have decided to discontinue the provision of listings of potential retailers in various geographic regions (unless they are already approved site members), because of the difficulty in maintaining such lists in a retail landscape that is constantly changing, and most importantly the confusion it was creating with the consumer subscribers who incorrectly assumed that these businesses had indeed gone through the strict qualification process and were approved as members of The Mattress Underground. We do encourage you to use TMU's "Ask an Expert" forum to ask our participating manufacturers/ retailers specific questions where their expertise may be of help to your research.

Regarding background information:
I am 5' 11" and around 210lbs. I am a back and side sleeper and sleep hot. Typically a deep sleeper and don't generally wake up with any soreness but, I have been told that I snore ha.
My wife is 5' and 150lbs and a stomach and side sleeper. she also sleeps hot but is a very deep sleeper and can sleep through anything and on pretty much any surface. Its honestly sort of impressive.


Thanks for including both of your personal stats and sleeping positions as they offer clues as to what materials and component arranging may be most suitable for your comfort and support needs. Good to hear that neither of you have any ongoing soreness or pressure point pain issues, it sounds as though your current setup has served you well over time.

My wife's mattress growing up was a super old hand-me-down innerspring and then a cheap innerspring mattress for College. My mattresses growing up were a water bed, a middle of the road innerspring, and a 13 year old Tempurpedic that was given to me from a family member when it was almost new. We used that as a couple living together for 10 years. We got rid of that recently and have been on a low end beautyrest mattress, that was on sale, as an interim mattress until we bought a king size. So as you can see, our sample size is limited to cheap innerspring mattresses and a 2007 tempurpedic.


Thanks too for including your mattress ownership history, also a good reference for understanding what has worked well for you both previously and what hasn't in terms of comfort and support. As you both have no sleep discomfort issues per se and only mention "sleeping hot" as a concern, you have many potential mattress candidates available for consideration.

If you could give any direction on what type (memory foam, hybrid, innerspring, Latex......?) we should start looking at and any additional stores to the ones mentioned above, it would be greatly appreciated. Any advice is welcome.


Here are a few questions for you, cfralick: did you both like your Tempurpedic mattress's feel and support? What is your budget for a new king mattress? What sorts of properties did you like in particular about the hotel bed other than it being king-sized? Also, when considering other types of mattress constructions (memory foam, hybrid, innerspring, Latex......?), are their specific qualities that you prefer/ dislike other than the preference for sleeping cooler? For example, with your Tempur mattress's memory foam construction, you may be used to a more cradling "sinking into" the mattress feel. Latex, on the other hand, provides a more "uplifting" and "sleeping on" feel to a mattress. Looking forward to learning more details when you have time and thanks ;) .

Sensei

PS to @BrianHawkins/ Ghostbed.com : Thanks for your warm congrats and response to cfralick's post :) ! Looking forward to seeing more of you on the forum and welcome aboard.
02 Dec 2020 12:52
  • cfralick
  • cfralick's Avatar
Hi, my wife and I purchased a house in March. We have both been on a queen bed all of our life, even since we have lived together and been married. We recently took a week long trip and were on a King bed in our hotel so, between enjoying that experience and our queen size bedroom set looking too small for our new master bedroom, we are ready to pull the trigger on a new mattress and bedroom set.

I thought I had a decent idea of what we wanted and where to look/buy and then I stumbled on this site and realized I know very little and even less on where to start. All of the guides and tips have been VERY helpful. I have spent the last few days looking through items and topics but don't feel that I have been able to narrow down anything besides we need to 1) lay on as many types of beds as possible and 2) shop from local factory direct stores. I was hoping a moderator or someone here could help at least narrow down my direction so I can get started.

I am in Cincinnati Ohio and have gathered that the following are places local that I should visit. Did I miss any?
1) Bowles
2) Denver Mattress Co
3) Original Mattress Facotry
4) Sleep Tite Mattress Factory

Regarding background information:
I am 5' 11" and around 210lbs. I am a back and side sleeper and sleep hot. Typically a deep sleeper and don't generally wake up with any soreness but, I have been told that I snore ha.
My wife is 5' and 150lbs and a stomach and side sleeper. she also sleeps hot but is a very deep sleeper and can sleep through anything and on pretty much any surface. Its honestly sort of impressive.

My wife's mattress growing up was a super old hand-me-down innerspring and then a cheap innerspring mattress for College. My mattresses growing up were a water bed, a middle of the road innerspring, and a 13 year old Tempurpedic that was given to me from a family member when it was almost new. We used that as a couple living together for 10 years. We got rid of that recently and have been on a low end beautyrest mattress, that was on sale, as an interim mattress until we bought a king size. So as you can see, our sample size is limited to cheap innerspring mattresses and a 2007 tempurpedic.

If you could give any direction on what type (memory foam, hybrid, innerspring, Latex......?) we should start looking at and any additional stores to the ones mentioned above, it would be greatly appreciated. Any advice is welcome.

Thanks in advance!
01 Nov 2020 06:37
  • Sensei
  • Sensei's Avatar
Hey David,

Welcome to the Mattress Underground :) ! Thanks for your question.

I currently have an 8 year old Tempurpedic Cloud-Supreme. It just doesn't feel that comfy anymore and my wife and I want to replace it. We are both stomach sleepers.


Congrats on your new mattress shopping journey :) ! From the length of your post, it seems that you've done quite a deep-dive investigation of possibilities to choose from, good job on your research David and thanks for providing product specs for the mattresses you are considering. Several more facts are needed first before we address your durability/ longevity concerns: what is yours/ your wife's heights, weights, and body profile types? For better understanding the role your personal statistics play in the overall suitability of a mattress, Phoenix's article, "The Role of Body Weight and Shape in Pressure Relief" is a helpful read. Also as you are both stomach sleepers, correct firmness in the upper comfort layer is critical; stomach sleeping is the most prone of all sleeping positions to sinking down too far in the pelvic area, resulting in hyperextension of the lumbar area. Phoenix's article, "An Overview of Sleeping Positions" breaks down how different type sleeping positions require different type comfort/ support layers for correct body alignment/ pressure relief.

Because of where I live, I will need to travel to test most any bed that meets this forum's suggestions, so I am trying to weed out choices that seem like they wouldn't be durable. I've been doing my best to get educated and I think I've narrowed things down to:

1. Comfort Option
2. Bowles
3. White Dove (the Atlas 1200, 4200, or 4300)

I don't love the lack of bounce in memory foam, for intimate reasons. So I am considering going back to springs (hybrid). I've read that innerspring mattresses really don't last as long as foam. I am wondering if a high quality spring mattress ages well. I'd like to get 10 years + out of it.


Innerspring mattresses continue to be the most popular and widely available mattress construction in the industry. A "hybrid" mattress could be an attractive alternative to those who like the feel of a foam sleeping surface but also prefer the feel and more lively response of an innerspring support core. Look for higher quality foams in the comfort layers, a hybrid mattress of a latex comfort layer (s) over a pocket coil construction could be a good choice in terms of a 10+ year life from a durability standpoint. You can read more on the most common types of mattresses in Phoenix's, "The Most Common Types of Mattresses" .

Of course my body is the ultimate judge and comfort is subjective. But looking these over, at least on paper, how do they look and what would be some general thoughts as to their quality and durability?
Thank you all for the help. This site is amazing. Mattress shopping is really pretty challenging to do intelligently. A lot of bad info out there. And given the importance of a good place to sleep, I really appreciate all that you've built here.


David, thanks for your kind words on the site; they are much appreciated :) .I will be happy to offer further thoughts regarding the durability comparisons of your preferred mattresses after the above personal statistics questions are answered as they play a direct role in how long a mattress would last, as well as the type materials/ construction used. BTW, what size mattress are you considering? Looking forward to your reply when you have a minute or two… ;) .

Thanks,
Sensei
30 Oct 2020 07:53
  • Hoosier1857
  • Hoosier1857's Avatar
I currently have an 8 year old Tempurpedic Cloud-Supreme. It just doesn't feel that comfy anymore and my wife and I want to replace it. We are both stomach sleepers. Because of where I live, I will need to travel to test most any bed that meets this forum's suggestions, so I am trying to weed out choices that seem like they wouldn't be durable. I've been doing my best to get educated and I think I've narrowed things down to:

1. Comfort Option
2. Bowles
3. White Dove (the Atlas 1200, 4200, or 4300)

I don't love the lack of bounce in memory foam, for intimate reasons. So I am considering going back to springs (hybrid). I've read that innerspring mattresses really don't last as long as foam. I am wondering if a high quality spring mattress ages well. I'd like to get 10 years + out of it.

Here are the specs of what I'm looking at:

ComfortOption has MANY different configurations. Their various foams available for use are as follows:
C - 3lb density, 8 IFD (This is the only true memory foam. They say the 3lb has competitive durability but the lower density helps prevent overheating. It has copper flakes in it to help with heat, too.)
S - 2.5lb density, 16 IFD
10 (TEN) - 3.5lb density, 13 IFD
18 - 3lb density, 18 IFD
FLEX - 2.6lb density, 18 IFD
Base layer 2.8lb density, 45 IFD

Aside from "C," the remaining foams are polyfoam or a mixture of polyfoam and memory foam.

Bowles: (I'm interested in 2 lines:
West Baden Springs (from top layer to bottom layer):
Tencil fabric quilted to 1.5" of 1.5lb density polyfoam
.5" gel lumbar support (I talked to the company and forget the density they said. It's either 3 or 4)
1" 3.3lb density latex
2" 1.5lb polyfoam
1" of 4lb density memory foam
.75" comfort support layer
.25" insulator pad
6" 12.5ga springs
.75" 1.5lb base support pad

Newport (from top layer to bottom):
Performance Fabric quilted to 1.5" of 1.5lb density polyfoam
.5" Gel lumbar support
1" gel 4lb density memory foam
1" latex 3.3lb
2.4" of micro coils, 17.5 ga, individually wrapped.
1" of 1.5lb density firm polyfoam
6" of individually wrapped 15ga coils
3" by 6" 1.5 density polyfoam encasement around perimeter
1" of 1.5lb density polyfoam support layer

White Dove:
1200 (
Hand tufted
Premium latex
2.5lb density polyfoam
12.5ga double offset springs

4200 and 4300
Hand tufted
(4300 has an additional layer of ultra soft, ultra high density FLO foam here)
Premium latex
2.5lb density polyfoam
1250 coils individually wrapper system


Of course my body is the ultimate judge and comfort is subjective. But looking these over, at least on paper, how do they look and what would be some general thoughts as to their quality and durability?

Thank you all for the help. This site is amazing. Mattress shopping is really pretty challenging to do intelligently. A lot of bad info out there. And given the importance of a good place to sleep, I really appreciate all that you've built here.

David
10 Feb 2020 08:50
  • MattressToGo
  • MattressToGo's Avatar
AustinKY:

Thank you Jeff for your knowledge and help.


You're welcome.

Today I went to Bowles which is a local manufacturer and retailer to see what they had to offer. Their website offered a pretty well detailed list of the construction of each model as well as the densities of foams and coil causes, even with micro coils.


Yes, they seem to be quite transparent.

I did find two that I really liked there and some of their construction seemed to use some higher quality material than S brand stores.
The comfort layers in the one we liked used:
1” polyfoam 1.0 density in the quilting layer with a PCM cover.
2” gel memory foam 4.0 density
2” convoluted foam 1.8” density
.25” insulator pad
6” high density 1.8 foam support layer

The only thing that’s bothering me is that according the Mattress durability guidelines article about picking layers in the comfort layer based on densities according to BMI, these are all on the lower end for me and my partners BMI.


I wouldn't have too much of a concern with the componentry. The 1" in the quilt is compressed a bit with the stitching and there as a bit of a barrier between you and the memory foam to assist with some airflow. It's a smaller amount of lower density foam. The gel memory foam is most likely one of the newer versions with an increased polyol content that tends to be more durable, and at 4# it's were you tend to start at a better density. The polyfoam beneath that is all true higher-density at 1.8#, which is at least where you want to start to be.

This mattress is listed at a more medium-firm comfort, so it is designed to offer some conformation. With your higher mass concentration, you'll have to expect a shorter comfort life and quicker change in support factor of any materials you choose (especially sleeping upon your stomach), so hedge your bets with higher quality materials, and something like this would tend to be at the beginning of a product using better quality materials.
08 Feb 2020 16:20
  • AustinKY
  • AustinKY's Avatar
UPDATE:
Thank you Jeff for your knowledge and help. I went back and read through a lot of the articles you pointed to, along with the post about the origin of the “Hybrid” term and marketability of it.
I tested some S brand ones as I had mentioned earlier for what I like which was a firmer mattress feel but was turned off by the price and quality. The comfort layers were subpar quality (although I did enjoy the covers of the tempurpedic) as you had mentioned and I’ve seen in the articles.
Today I went to Bowles which is a local manufacturer and retailer to see what they had to offer. Their website offered a pretty well detailed list of the construction of each model as well as the densities of foams and coil causes, even with micro coils.
I did find two that I really liked there and some of their construction seemed to use some higher quality material than S brand stores.
The comfort layers in the one we liked used:
1” polyfoam 1.0 density in the quilting layer with a PCM cover.
2” gel memory foam 4.0 density
2” convoluted foam 1.8” density
.25” insulator pad
6” high density 1.8 foam support layer

The only thing that’s bothering me is that according the Mattress durability guidelines article about picking layers in the comfort layer based on densities according to BMI, these are all on the lower end for me and my partners BMI.
However, we both did like the feel and pressure relief and overall support of this mattress.
They do offer that over time if it starts to feel like it’s not comfortable, they can take the mattress and exchange out the comfort layers for new ones or softer/firmer materials and I would cover the cost of the material plus a shipping fee (around $80 round trip). We both did like sticking to a local manufacturer but they are the only one in the area, and only place that outright shares what’s in their mattress and the specifications of the materials. It does seem that I do like a PCM or cooling cover (or at least one that is much flatter and not quilted it tufted too much). I also seem to gravitate towards some kind of layer of 2” memory foam or gel memory foam with a denser 2” polyfoam or convoluted foam underneath.
05 Feb 2020 10:20
  • MattressToGo
  • MattressToGo's Avatar
Hey Austin:

I'll do my best to answer a few of your questions that are in my wheelhouse. Much of what you're asking for is to have someone pick out /differentiate quite a few different mattresses for you, which isn't what I do. But maybe some others on the forum could offer a few insights to assist you in those areas.

I have been looking at several companies in the bed in a box space just mainly for seemingly more affordability and great return policies. I have not been able to sleep well due the current state of my current mattress so finding the “right one” is important to me.


If you're very specific about comfort, testing something out in person may be of primary importance to you. Many brick and mortar stores also offer return policies, although testing in person can alleviate the need for this. "Seemingly more affordability" is a good statement, as some of the largest boxed bed companies may "seem" to offer more affordable products, but when you analyze the quality of componentry, they actually don't compare well to many of the non-boxed products, as well as some of the smaller boxed-bed products. It's paramount that you learn about the quality of componentry to make an accurate analysis of a product. Be sure to study the mattress shopping tutorial offered on the TMU website to assist you with that.

I did go to a nearby Mattress Firm and try some of the “S” brand beds and laid on several just to get an idea of the types that I may like and different options there are. I seemed to gravitate towards the Hybrid beds the most. The two I seemed to like in the store were the Tempur Pedic Pro Adapt Hybrid medium and the Sealy Silver Chill Hybrid Firm.


If you've read a bit here on the site, you'll already realize that unfortunately most of the models of the "S" brands don't tend to offer the higher-quality, higher-density flexible polyfoams that tend to be more durable. Again, it's important that you learn about every layer of material in any mattress you're considering, and at a minimum acquire the density of the foam. That way you'll be able to make an informed and educated choice, or at least logically compare items.

As for a "hybrid", I wouldn't compare/contrast mattresses based upon that term, as it's become so diluted by salespeople and mattress brands as to have little meaning. I recently wrote a Beducation blog post on the genesis of the hybrid terminology that you may find interesting. Again, focus more upon componentry than nomenclature.

I saw someone post some specs of those two and aside from price being pretty steep on those models, the comfort layers seemed to use lower quality foams and 14-16 gauge coils. I am not sure how long they would last.


The innerspring unit isn't generally the weak link within a mattress. You should primarily focus upon the comfort materials.

Information on us: Me and my Girlfriend are about 5’4 and weigh around 200-225. She sleeps mostly on her back or stomach and I am a combo sleeper but mostly on my back and stomach as well.


Sleeping prone (on your stomach) generally requires a surface comfort on the "firmer" end of the spectrum, or at least something that doesn't allow for too much sag that would exaggerate your forward lordotic curve of your low back. This doesn't mean you need to sleep upon a brick, but I'd suggest avoiding something too heavily padded or too plush on top. Back sleepers usually need something that allows for some contour of their seat and shoulders, but not so much that they're sleeping in a hammock. In general, look for something with a good support unit that helps promote a more neutral alignment, then something using "just enough" padding to get the job done, and with your specific mass concentration make sure the padding material is higher density and not overly plush in nature for increased durability. How plush is of course subjective, and these are general sleep ergonomics recommendations.

I sleep a little warm but I’m not sweating unless it’s the summer in KY as I live in a second floor condo that can get pretty warm.


Overall sleeping temperature depends upon a myriad of things and there's quite a bit of detail about it here on the forum. The items closest to your skin will have the most dramatic impact for temperature and humidity control. Good sheets that wick moisture and breathe well are important, as well as a breathable mattress pad. Softer mattresses will tend to sleep warmer than harder mattresses, as all material insulate to an extent, and the more you're "in" a mattress, the more you're insulated and the less surface area you have exposed outside of the mattress for heat exchange. Keep the relative humidity in your condo low and of course do your best to keep the room temperature in the mid-60s or so. Industry claims of "cooler sleep" tend to be exaggerated quite a bit by salespeople and take a bit of truth and stretch it to the point that you think you're going to need a heating pad to stop from freezing to death. A bit of skepticism is warranted, but not cynicism.

She does have rheumatoid arthritis but mostly just in her wrists and knees. However we both have back and neck pain and need something with a solid support.


I'm sorry to hear about the arthritis. I wish there was a mattress that could cure this, and if there was, I'd be on it as well! Taking note of how your girlfriend holds her wrists at night (some people flex at quite severe angles while sleeping) can assist with that (some even wear soft wrist braces when sleeping to stop from flexing too much). Sleeping prone can exacerbate knee pressure, so avoiding that "weak" sleeping posture can be assistive. It all depends upon the origination of the pain in the knee and the level of flexibility in the joint that might cause distress while sleeping. Back pain usually arrives from environmental reasons (previous injuries, level of strength and flexibility, weight, etc.) but can be exacerbated by a poor mattress and a poor (prone) sleeping posture. Neck issues are also quite diverse, but a properly fitted pillow promoting a more neutral alignment with a new mattress can do wonders.

I prefer a more firm mattress as well.


Ding ding. You're on a good track provided the componentry is a good quality and it's not like the floor (see my previous comments above).

I have been looking at Brooklyn Bedding Aurora, Signature and Bloom models and the people there seem to say to go with the aurora. I am worried that the coil gauge is only 16 but they are 8” pocketed coils.


As I mentioned previously, the innerspring unit within the mattress is generally not the weakest link. The Signature uses the Ascension 6" in 13 gauge. The Bloom and Aurora use the Quantum in 8" that is 16 gauge along the perimeter (with a different geometry) and 13 gauge in the center. I believe this will all eventually transition over to the in-house Ascension coils from what I remember at Market. Regardless, focus upon the foam quality, and I would tend to give particular focus to the advice in a phone call with the manufacturer, as they will tend to have the best experience with what works best with their previous clients with dimensions/issues similar to yours.

I have also looked at Wink Bed, Purple Hybrid, Nest Alexander Hybrid and Bear Hybrid. The only local manufacturer near me is Bowles Mattress and they can get pretty pricey but I have not had the time to make into their store to talk to them.


You can most likely find the current specifications for these boxed-bed products on the forum. I don't have current listings. Maybe someone else more knowledgeable with these products can be assistive. I'm not completely familiar with your local mattress company, Bowles. I have run across them before in some of my readings, and if I recall they did seem to offer some items using very high quality materials. But you'd want to investigate that directly with them. They seem to be transparent about materials.

I was hoping the lovely people here could help shed some light and offer some recommendations on what you think would be best or what route to go. I know only we could determine what’s best for our PPP but I feel a little lost in the minutiae of it all.


Hopefully some others can chime in and give more complete details to your other questions. The best advice I can give is for you to sit down and read through the mattress shopping tutorial on this site, specifically focusing upon mattress componentry and what constitutes a higher-quality padding material. I don't think you've read through this completely, as you seem to be focusing more upon the innerspring unit than the comfort material. Once you have that as a reference (not memorized), you'll be in a much better position to make an informed decision.

Good luck!
05 Feb 2020 06:22
  • AustinKY
  • AustinKY's Avatar
Hello all,
First post here and new to the mattress shopping world. I am looking to buy my first one as everything I have slept on has been secondhand. I have only really slept on your typical furniture store mattress with a innerspring and pillow top and unknown components inside. After about 10 years and lots of indentation on the left and right side (with a big hump in the center), it’s time to replace it.
I have been looking at several companies in the bed in a box space just mainly for seemingly more affordability and great return policies. I have not been able to sleep well due the current state of my current mattress so finding the “right one” is important to me. I did go to a nearby Mattress Firm and try some of the “S” brand beds and laid on several just to get an idea of the types that I may like and different options there are. I seemed to gravitate towards the Hybrid beds the most. The two I seemed to like in the store were the Tempur Pedic Pro Adapt Hybrid medium and the Sealy Silver Chill Hybrid Firm.
I saw someone post some specs of those two and aside from price being pretty steep on those models, the comfort layers seemed to use lower quality foams and 14-16 gauge coils. I am not sure how long they would last.
Information on us: Me and my Girlfriend are about 5’4 and weigh around 200-225. She sleeps mostly on her back or stomach and I am a combo sleeper but mostly on my back and stomach as well. I sleep a little warm but I’m not sweating unless it’s the summer in KY as I live in a second floor condo that can get pretty warm. She does have rheumatoid arthritis but mostly just in her wrists and knees. However we both have back and neck pain and need something with a solid support. I prefer a more firm mattress as well.
I have been looking at Brooklyn Bedding Aurora, Signature and Bloom models and the people there seem to say to go with the aurora. I am worried that the coil gauge is only 16 but they are 8” pocketed coils. I have also looked at Wink Bed, Purple Hybrid, Nest Alexander Hybrid and Bear Hybrid. The only local manufacturer near me is Bowles Mattress and they can get pretty pricey but I have not had the time to make into their store to talk to them.

I was hoping the lovely people here could help shed some light and offer some recommendations on what you think would be best or what route to go. I know only we could determine what’s best for our PPP but I feel a little lost in the minutiae of it all.

Thank you!
21 Oct 2019 07:07
  • ThatITGuy
  • ThatITGuy's Avatar
I am pretty sure I want to go with the DIY Latex from Arizona Premium Mattress mentioned above, but now I am debating whether I should changing things up and keep the 3" layer as medium, but make the 2" top later soft. The Bowles mentioned it was a 2 inch "soft" layer on top, and it was quite comfortable when I lay on it. Given my weight, am I better served by going with "firm"/32 ILD for the 3" middle layer, and then medium/28 ILD for the 2 inch topper? Keep both medium? Medium and then soft?
What about going Firm for the middle 3", then medium for the 2" layer, and then maybe throwing another 2" layer in that is soft?
18 Oct 2019 15:48
  • ThatITGuy
  • ThatITGuy's Avatar
Hello,
I have been shopping for a mattress for a short while now and found this site that has been hugely helpful. As part of that I found out more about Latex, which led me to try out a mattress with a latex comfort layer, and i found it quite comfortable. It is from a local company Link to mattress(link) > I am still considering that bed, but am looking at a DIY from Arizona Premium Mattress as well. I had a few questions I needed help with in order to better make my decision.
For a bit of background on myself:
I am 6'2", and currently around 270 lbs (working on getting down closer to my usual 220-240, which would still be on the "heavier scale for mattresses). I am a combo sleeper, though lately I have had to at least start out on my stomach in order to get comfortable, as on my back i feel my lower back start to ache and i get a "restless legs" type sensation. I am sleeping on a cheap innerspring mattress that is about 5 years old now, and that may be playing a part in some of that. I also am waking up with lower back pain on occasion. I sleep pretty hot, even more so considering I will likely have a 5 yr old and 3 yr old crashing my bed on occasion, who burrow in to me and radiate heat.

So I think first question is, how much better is Latex as a base/support core than Memory Foam, considering my weight?
As far as what I am looking at for a mattress, I am thinking 6" Dunlop Core (firm), a 3 inch Talalay layer (28 ILD, but maybe 32?), another 2 inch layer of Talalay (#28/28 ILD here as well?) and then the mattress cover. I was debating also adding for the top a HyPURgel Memory foam layer (24 ILD), but I suppose that could be overkill. Do the ILDs listed make sense considering my weight? Also what would the best cover be for both comfort level and heat, the wool or cotton?
I previously has a Simmons Comforpedic Memory foam mattress and it was OK to sleep on (not great) but definitely hot,and after a few years it was not as comfortable. I want something that will last more than 5 years (and be comfortable).
Would I be better off just buying one of the "pre-assembled" mattresses and then adding toppers as needed? I do know I want something 11+ inches in height.
I like something more on the medium side of medium firm, as well.
21 Jan 2018 02:41
  • alevinemi
  • alevinemi's Avatar
Two questions:

First (and less important), is there a way to post outside the "Ask an Expert" section? Right now, I'm trying to find potential suppliers/vendors, and I feel odd asking those kinds of questions to a supplier/vendor.

Second, I read the durability guidelines on this site. As we have gone mattress shopping, I have found out my wife like her mattress soft. Really soft, with lots of soft layers on top (I like firmer, but can sleep on anything, and will concede on this). The site recommends 2lb polyfoam, 5lb memory foam, or latex for our high BMI, and I believe that.

My wife has also eliminated all internet vendors from consideration - she doesn't want to buy a mattress she can't test/feel in advance. I can understand that.

However, I haven't found any local mattress suppliers (Indianapolis-area) that put foam this dense in their mattresses. The "better" verndors offer 1.8lb poly and 4.0lb memory, or about 10-20% less dense than recommended. Any idea who I should call? If I use this lighter foam, what kind of durability can I expect - will the mattress last 10 years (I'm thinking probably not...)?

I've already seen Bowles Mattress, Mark's Mattress/Sleep Natural. I've also seen Southerland mattress, but the salesperson was useless and I still don't know how those mattresses are constructed.

-->Adam
18 Jan 2018 05:15
  • alevinemi
  • alevinemi's Avatar
OK - I've done research here on Mattress Underground, Sleep Like the Dead, and Consumer Reports.

I've got a list of places I want to check-out from that research, but I can't spend a lot of time going out and shopping (have autistic child that makes going out with wife to shop very difficult - we have to shop separately, and communicate later). Because of this, an online vendor is attractive, but that also of course means I don't get to see or lie on the mattress before buying it, which I don't like.

I know that I want a king size mattress, either all-latex or innerspring/latex hybrid. I don't want an air mattress that can break like a machine, and I don't like memory foam because it's terrible for the non-sleeping activities you may do on a bed.

We are a obese couple in our 40s, who are out of shape (high BMI), and we are both side sleepers. We're willing to grudgingly spend $3,000 for a mattress, but if we can get a durable one we can sleep on for less, we would love to spend less.

Here's the too-long shortlist of suppliers that I have:
(Online Vendors)
(Local Vendors)
08 Jul 2016 11:14
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi killowatt59,

This is my first post. I am looking for a little help as I am mattress shopping for the first time with a larger budget. I realize I will probably get all types of different answers so I will try to keep my question specific.


While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but just in case you haven't read it yet ... the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

#2. I am looking at going the memory foam route.


Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range ... the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a "better/worse" choice (see this article ).

The best way to know which type of materials or mattresses you tend to prefer will be based on your own local testing or your own personal experience so hopefully your preference for memory foam is based on your actual experience rather than "theory" or a belief that it's either better or worse than other materials or types of mattresses.

#1. I am large guy 6 ft, 280 pounds.


There is more information in post #3 here and the posts it links to that would be helpful for those that are in higher weight ranges

While the process of how to choose a mattress would involve the same steps that are listed in the mattress shopping tutorial ... most people in higher weight ranges will generally need or prefer firmer mattresses (firmer materials will feel softer because you will sink into them more) and materials and components that are higher quality and more durable than those that are in lower weight ranges (the materials and components in a mattress will soften and break down faster for those in higher weight ranges than they will for someone that is in a lower weight range that doesn't compress the mattress as much). I would be particularly cautious about mattresses that use more than "about an inch or so" of memory foam that is less than about 5 lb density or polyfoam that is less than about 2 lb density ... particularly in the upper layers of the mattress.

#3. One of my main concerns is buying a mattress from a company and a store with a good warranty, but also a willingness to back up the warranty. I don't want a bunch of hassle should something go wrong.


Mattress warranties only cover manufacturing defects and they don't cover the gradual (or more rapid in the case of lower quality comfort layers) loss of comfort and support that comes from foam softening that is the main reason that most people will need to replace their mattress. In other words the length of mattress warranties have little to nothing to do with the durability or useful life of a mattress or how long it will be until you need to buy a new mattress. If there is an actual defect in the materials it will usually show up early in the life of the mattress (usually in the first year or two) but knowing the quality/density and durability of the materials in your mattress is always a much more reliable way to assess the relative durability and useful life of a mattress than the length of a warranty. There is more about mattress warranties in post #174 here .

So far as far as national store companies go I have checked out Mattress Firm. Does anyone know anything about this store company?

Also I have been leaning toward a Sealy Optimum. I know they have different models, but the inspiration gold and elite are the two I have tried The elite may just be a model made for Mattress Firm?? Can't find much information on it.


The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (and the major retailers such as Mattress Firm that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

Also I am considering a mattress from the Bowles Company. I'm not sure if they have one I really like so more testing is in order, but it seems the company has a great reputation for taking care of issues. . . And they are located fairly close to where I live. I live in Kentucky.


Bowles is certainly more transparent about the materials and components in their mattresses than the major brands and it would certainly be worth including them in your research as long as any of their mattresses you are considering use materials and components that are durable enough for your weight range.

If you let me know your city or zip code in Kentucky I'd be happy to let you know about any of the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in your area.

Of the the Tempurpedic company is on my list. But it is really hard to justify spending the money on one these beds if there are comparable models elsewhere that are cheaper. I kind of think the Sealy falls into this category.


For the most part Tempurpedic uses good quality materials in their mattresses (although I would tend to avoid their models that use 4 lb memory foam because of your weight range) but there are certainly other options that would be better quality/value choices than Tempurpedic which tend to be overpriced compared to other memory foam mattresses that use similar quality/density materials (see post #2 here ).

There are several basically online mattress companies such as Casper, Loom and Leaf, Leesa, Tuft and Needle, but I don't think it is a good idea to buy a mattress without trying it out first. Even if their company is customer friendly, it seems like it would be a hassle. .


If you are considering online options then there is more about all the mattresses you mentioned and many of the other "simplified choice" mattress in post #2 here . The first post in the same topic would be well worth reading as well. There are certainly many people that are comfortable ordering online with a good exchange/return policy but there are others that prefer to purchase a local mattress that they can test in person first so this is really a matter of individual preference.

While most of the online simplified choice mattresses have a great trial period so you can test them in your bedroom instead of a showroom with little risk outside of the time you spend trying it (or returning/donating it if it doesn't work out as well as you hoped) ... this will only tell you whether a mattress is "good enough" in terms of PPP and not specifically how it compares to other mattresses that you could have purchased that may have been even better or that you may have preferred. When you test mattresses at a local store you can test many different mattresses in a shorter period of time and there may be more than one that would make a suitable choice but your testing can give you a good idea of which of them you would prefer and was more likely to be the "best choice". You would need to purchase quite a number of online mattresses (and then return the ones you didn't like as much as your "final choice") if you wanted to find out which of them was the "best choice" relative to the other options that are available to you.

The tutorial also includes several other links to some of the better online options I'm aware of including a link to a list of memory foam mattresses ... some of which are designed to be reasonable approximations of many of the Tempurpedic mattresses as well.

In its simplest form choosing the "best possible" mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then ...

1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP ... and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or "fine tune" the mattress and any costs involved if you can't test a mattress in person or aren't confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

3. Comparing your finalists for "value" based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
08 Jul 2016 10:26
  • killowatt59
  • killowatt59's Avatar
Hello everyone.

This is my first post. I am looking for a little help as I am mattress shopping for the first time with a larger budget. I realize I will probably get all types of different answers so I will try to keep my question specific.

#1. I am large guy 6 ft, 280 pounds.
#2. I am looking at going the memory foam route.
#3. One of my main concerns is buying a mattress from a company and a store with a good warranty, but also a willingness to back up the warranty. I don't want a bunch of hassle should something go wrong.

So far as far as national store companies go I have checked out Mattress Firm. Does anyone know anything about this store company?

Also I have been leaning toward a Sealy Optimum. I know they have different models, but the inspiration gold and elite are the two I have tried The elite may just be a model made for Mattress Firm?? Can't find much information on it.

Also I am considering a mattress from the Bowles Company. I'm not sure if they have one I really like so more testing is in order, but it seems the company has a great reputation for taking care of issues. . . And they are located fairly close to where I live. I live in Kentucky.

Of the the Tempurpedic company is on my list. But it is really hard to justify spending the money on one these beds if there are comparable models elsewhere that are cheaper. I kind of think the Sealy falls into this category.

There are several basically online mattress companies such as Casper, Loom and Leaf, Leesa, Tuft and Needle, but I don't think it is a good idea to buy a mattress without trying it out first. Even if their company is customer friendly, it seems like it would be a hassle. .

Any thoughts are experiences would be appreciated.
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