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Searched for: Saatva
21 Jun 2022 06:26
  • TombslashZX
  • TombslashZX's Avatar
After sleeping on a mattress I got on sale from Sams Club almost 6 years ago with almost no research, its time to move on as its created two craters and is starting to cause me some lower back pain. Here is some basic info:

This mattress would be for me and my wife. We both have BMI's over 30 and are combination sleepers (me on my side and back and her on her in every direction). Our current mattress is a queen size pillow top that we both loved the feel and firmness of, but as mentioned, the topper has given out and is providing no more support.

So far, I've done some research both on here, on other sites and video reviews as well as trying some mattresses in person with my wife. What I've found so far is that there is a lot out there and it seems like for every good review or video, there are 10 negative experiences. I thought maybe asking directly on the Forum would be more constructive.

Here is my current research findings:
After trying out a few mattresses in person we have some fairly simple dislikes. We don't like a soft top mattress which makes sense for our BMI's. On the same line we would like good edge support for getting in and out easier. We also tried some memory foam and hybrids with memory foam comfort layers and didn't quite like the feel (specifically we tried a Nectar and a Sealy Hybrid). We definitely prefer a medium firm pillowtop-esque mattress. The only Hybrid mattress that we tried and liked was the Dreamcloud. It felt very similar to a pillow top, but as I understand it, the comfort layer is poly foam with some other foams underneath before the spring layer. We left the store thinking that we would order a Dreamcloud and be done, but after doing some more research online it seems like the customer experience has been great for some and the overall construction doesn't look like it will hold up over time (From the durability post, for our BMI's, its recommended that the comfort layer be 1.8lb polyfoam and no greater than 1" thick, but the dreamcloud is 1.5" at 1.5lb). So after tabling the Dreamcloud, I moved onto a Saatva mattress. It seems to be very similar to the Dreamcloud in firmness, but doesn't have as many layers on foam. However, I can't find a posting of the top layer specifications. The other down side being that I can't try one out in a showroom near me.

I've also looked passingly at the Helix line of beds as well ad the Brooklyn Beddings selection, but can't tell if they are closer to a memory foam hybrid in feel. We are also open to adjustable air beds like the air-pedic and sleep number, but need to try one out as well. I think I'm mostly looking for some guidance on what to filter out when it comes to online opinions and reviews of mattresses. It seems like every mattress has a large number a of bad user reviews along with glowing professional reviews that makes it hard to judge objectively which one is right for us. I think just having some peace of mind that any of the listed mattress I've mentioned will provide us with comfortable sleep for a reasonable amount of time would be more than enough for me to pick one and order it
08 Jun 2022 19:32
  • Basilio
  • Basilio's Avatar
Hi az333, and welcome to The Mattress Underground :)
Glad to have you here.

My partner and I are looking for a new king sized mattress and could really use some help. We are both tall (5’11 and 6’3) and both around 210-220 pounds. We’ve been doing some research, but are having a hard time finding the best option for our needs. Our main needs are:
1. excellent edge support (we both tend to sleep close to the edge and sit on it often)
2. minimal heat retention (we both sleep very hot and often get sweaty/wake up from being hot)
3. pretty firm (like a 7-8 on a scale of 1-10).
As far as sleep styles, we both toss and turn in the night so it’s important that we’re able to move around easily

A new mattress is an important purchase, and its’ good you are taking the time to take a look at your options since this is your first mattress. Any mattress is unique to the sleepers who sleep on it, and is based on your stats (height, BMI, sleeping position(s) and any underlying health conditions, if any), and your PPP(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). Thanks for providing you and your partners’ stats – you don’t say if you have any health issues or soreness on waking, but that you did not like the feel of the memory foam mattress you tried in a store.

First you may want to take a look at the mattress shopping tutorial to get an idea of what your options are, as well as the mattress specifications you need to know , and also the mattress durability guidelines to see how different components hold up over time. Both a hybrid latex and an all latex bed in firm or medium firm won’t present durability issues given your higher BMIs. So that’s a good direction thus far in terms of durability.

We’ve recently tried a memory foam mattress in store and really didn’t like it because of the restricted mobility and feeling like we were sinking into the mattress. I also prefer my mattress to have a bit of bounce otherwise it just feels dead to me.
(Side note: we’re both heavy sleepers so the whole motion isolation thing is not really a priority for us)Other than that, I primarily sleep on my stomach/side and he primarily sleeps on his back/side but we both prefer firm mattresses. We like feeling like we’re on top of the mattress rather than “in” it if that makes sense.

You have already identified some materials that you likely want to avoid, like memory foam, and as you are not concerned with motion isolation, you can likely not be concerned with a zoned latex. Since you both sleep very ‘hot’ you will want to look for mattresses that have a breathable layer closest to the sleepers – like cotton, wool, or coconut coir – to keep perspiration from gathering around your bodies while you sleep. As you both prefer firm mattresses, a firmer ILD latex mattress, or a hybrid with quality high density foam, along with a pocketed coil innerspring base with edge support, since you spend a lot of time on your bed besides sleeping, and you both prioritize firmness, this may be worth looking at.

We were able to try the saatva zenhaven in store and we really liked the firm side of it, but we felt like we should continue searching to see if there’s anything better for the money (it was $3k for the zenhaven). I was considering a custom latex mattress from flexus, but I’m concerned that an all latex mattress will not have good enough edge support. Currently, I’m mainly considering a latex/coil hybrid but can’t decide which brand to go for. I see that flexus, AP, sleepez and saatva have similar options but don’t know which would be best for our needs. I’m also willing to consider any other brand as long as it’under $3k. Do you have any recommendations? Would a latex/coil hybrid even be the best choice?
I also would like to note that when I’m at home, I spend a majority of the time on my bed (both sitting and laying down). I sometimes even do meetings from my bed, so it’s not just for sleep.

I took a look at the Saatva ZenHaven, which is a 10” flippable Latex mattress with a ‘plush’ side and a ‘luxury firm’ side. Latex is naturally more breathable than any other type of foams layers in between the latex layers but even though they do not list the thicknesses or (ILD – Indentation Layer Deflection, the higher the ILD the firmer the latex) so I’d make sure to get the comfort level to match up with your needs and that is approximating Saatva you tried. I am glad you both prefer firmer sleeping surfaces as those would be most appropriate for your stomach sleeping and your partner’s back sleeping. Additionally, firmer sleeping surfaces would sleep cooler as you won’t sink in too much and trap the body heat thus creating a hotter and more humid sleeping microclimate. Firmer surfaces will also help with sitting on the edge or mattress roll off. . You may want to look at these few readings about Sleeping style , and Higher BMI people . There is also more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range., for more relevant details, but all in all you are on the right track with everything. Saatva uses a proprietary 100% natural Dunlop latex which is a little firmer than Talalay latex in the same ILD. So that’s a good choice of a material as well. Latex is a little lower on the scale when it comes to motion isolation than memory foam but that is not important criteria for you.

For a 3k budget – you should be able to find a lot of offerings under that price. The other manufacturers you mention – Flexus Comfort , Arizona Premium and Arizona SleepEZ Factory are all trusted members of the site, and all are transparent regarding the materials and construction of their mattresses but above all they have great customer support and help to find the best comfort option that would be a perfect fit for you both sleepers. . If you can provide them with a little information, and the concerns stated above, they will strive to match you with a mattress that suits you both and will last a long time. In the end, though, keep in mind that only you and your partner can determine what works for you. To address the edge support issue, you may want to read this Phoenix post here .

Because of its point elasticity though ... those who sit on the very outside edge a lot (instead of sitting with your body weight more into the middle of the mattress) or who sleep with more concentrated weight on the outside few inches of their mattress may find themselves sinking down more than they like even though this isn't normally an issue when sleeping on the mattress. For those who prefer a firmer edge then there are a few latex mattresses that use what's called a "racetrack" perimeter where the outer few inches of the latex support core is surrounded with a firmer foam. Unfortunately, most of the time this firmer foam is a much less durable (but firmer) polyfoam which will soften and break down sooner than the latex and what starts out as a positive can become a negative over time (depending on the density of the polyfoam this can sometimes be a fairly short time). Because of this it would be much better to use firmer latex in those cases where perimeter support is preferred rather than less durable polyfoam but this is an uncommon construction for latex.
In most cases though ... a latex support layer that is firm enough relative to body weight of the person sleeping on the mattress will be fine for most people.

I am not sure if any of our trusted members provide edge support on their products, but if you are set on that, you can call any of them and inquire...for example, members DIY Mattress and also Latex Mattress Factory botth are experienced with providing custom latex mattresses, so they may be a good place to start.

I wish you success on your mattress journey!

Basilio
06 Jun 2022 17:44
  • az333
  • az333's Avatar
Hi, this is my first time posting here (and first time buying a mattress) so I apologize if this out of place.

My partner and I are looking for a new king sized mattress and could really use some help. We are both tall (5’11 and 6’3) and both around 210-220 pounds. We’ve been doing some research, but are having a hard time finding the best option for our needs.

Our main needs are:
1. excellent edge support (we both tend to sleep close to the edge and sit on it often)
2. minimal heat retention (we both sleep very hot and often get sweaty/wake up from being hot)
3. pretty firm (like a 7-8 on a scale of 1-10).

As far as sleep styles, we both toss and turn in the night so it’s important that we’re able to move around easily. We’ve recently tried a memory foam mattress in store and really didn’t like it because of the restricted mobility and feeling like we were sinking into the mattress. I also prefer my mattress to have a bit of bounce otherwise it just feels dead to me (Side note: we’re both heavy sleepers so the whole motion isolation thing is not really a priority for us) Other than that, I primarily sleep on my stomach/side and he primarily sleeps on his back/side but we both prefer firm mattresses. We like feeling like we’re on top of the mattress rather than “in” it if that makes sense.

We were able to try the saatva zenhaven in store and we really liked the firm side of it, but we felt like we should continue searching to see if there’s anything better for the money (it was $3k for the zenhaven). I was considering a custom latex mattress from flexus, but I’m concerned that an all latex mattress will not have good enough edge support. Currently, I’m mainly considering a latex/coil hybrid but can’t decide which brand to go for. I see that flexus, AP, sleepez and saatva have similar options but don’t know which would be best for our needs. I’m also willing to consider any other brand as long as it’s under $3k. Do you have any recommendations? Would a latex/coil hybrid even be the best choice?

I also would like to note that when I’m at home, I spend a majority of the time on my bed (both sitting and laying down). I sometimes even do meetings from my bed, so it’s not just for sleep.
27 May 2022 14:07
  • JDMWDC
  • JDMWDC's Avatar
We have really enjoyed our all-foam mattress, was named the "Aloe Adele" back when Brooklyn Bedding offered deeply customizable sleep solutions (now they're just mass bed-in-a-box like everyone else, sadly). I spoke to a BB salesperson and was basically told they don't make mattresses similar to the one I have anymore. So: after 9 years so it's time for a new mattress and it looks like I'm changing brands.

Our current mattress:
1" quilted pillow top
3" of 4-lb gel memory foam
3" of 28 ILD Talalay latex
and 7" of 2.17lb base polyfoam

What we're trying to recreate:
* Little to no motion transfer, no major bounce (hence hybrid mattresses are out... I truly can't tell the difference between coils vs. innerspring other than marketing)
* We need the all-foam feel, which we view as soft without compromising support. We want more than neutral foam, but don't want to sink deeply into the mattress. My wife describes it as "just enough sink to support all the crevices, then you stop sinking before you feel trapped."

Whether there's a quilted top or not isn't super important.

What we've tried:
* Saatva showroom, hated almost everything we tried mostly due to the bounce. The closest offering was the Saatva HD, meant for heavy people (awkward, I'm 145 lbs.) But as I read about it, I think perhaps it's because the mattress added additional comfort layers for heavy people, so we didn't feel the springs as much. In addition, the coils that WERE there, were stronger than normal so perhaps less bounce to them.
* Purple showroom, hated everything with a passion because of the bouncing.
* Casper showroom. The Casper Original wasn't bad but was a tad too firm for our liking, felt more like sleeping on top rather than slightly more "in." I would say "close." We disliked the Wave and Nova beds, not a surprise as they're hybrids and very firm.
* Nectar. The Nectar Original is maybe the closest we've had so far. If the layers were thicker it might be the winner, but overall a bit firm (more "on" than "in" again). Nectar Premier was definitely out of contention. All reviewers say it's a much softer mattress, but that really only seems to apply to the top layer. We layer on it, immediately sunk through the top layer with virtually no support, and hit the second comfort layer like a rock.
* Tuft and Needle Mint - Felt extremely cheap in the showroom. They call their payers "adaptive foam" but I really didn't get the deeply supportive memory foam feel, just felt like a lot of cheap base foam.
* Brooklyn Bedding Signature - Medium. Yeah it's a hybrid but adding it as a data point. We have this in our guest bedroom. Much too firm for us, really no memory foam feeling at all.
* Brooklyn Bedding Aurora - Medium. This is the mattress we ordered without doing much research to replace our current bed. We are planning to get a refund, it's bouncy, the cooling is really a gimmick (didn't sleep any cooler than the one we got rid of), and it is lacking that memory foam feel/support we want.

What I'm looking at and have no idea what I'm doing:
Ghostbed Luxe - The bad reviews are scary, but I could order through Costco and have their warranty back it up
Winkbed GravityLux - Looks ok? I'm not convinced Ghostbed and Winkbed stand by their products, they seem to have exceptionally poor consumer feedback.
Leesa Original - Possibly a contender? Going to try to find this in a showroom, I think they have them at Macy's, but I wonder how much we'll miss having that layer of latex.
Nectar - How has the new Original changed from the old one we slept on? What about the Premier... which just seems like a layer of marketing?

This community helped me so much 9 years ago that I'm really excited to hear what you all might have to say :)
27 May 2022 06:34
  • blackdog578
  • blackdog578's Avatar
Thanks for the reply! I was actually able to recently try out a few latex mattresses at an Avocado and Saatva showroom. It was my first time on a latex mattress and they were all really nice. I also found that, after sleeping on a Tempurdic the past few years, I really enjoy any mattress that isn't too plush (anything above from 5.5-7.5 on the firmness scale).

I'm leaning more towards the Nolah mattress since the current price ($1200 for a queen with labor day sale) seems really great given the materials used to make the mattress.
I was also considering getting the Avocado Eco since it felt great too and I was considering buying the egg-crate 2" topper from flobeds separately.

I notice that Nolah and Avocado aren't in the Trusted Members. I was wondering if you or anyone else has any knowledge with the quality of these two companies? It looks Avocado and Nolah both use a great set of materials when making the bed (organic wool, cotton, and natural latex), and the Avocado mattresses seamed to have a good build quality when I tested them out. I was wondering if you or anyone else reading this has any long term experiences with the two brands.

Also for the Talalay latex topper (if I choose the avocado mattress) is there any noticeable difference between an egg-crate topper for the talalay latex? I noticed that I can buy a regular 2" talalay latex topper from Latex Mattress factory (with a cover) for about $100 less or from Arizona Premium (with cover) for about $200 less.

Also, I want to consistently back-sleep just for general back and shoulder health. I've had a few shoulder injuries from lifting, and sleeping on my stomach sometimes aggravates them. I just have a tough time falling asleep on my back, and I was planning on getting an adjustable base to help with this.

Thanks for the help!
16 May 2022 11:09
  • Alan P
  • Alan P's Avatar
Full disclosure; I posted this exact same thing in Sleep EZ's section of the forum, but since I am trying to be as thorough as possible (and I just found out about Vzone!) I wanted to post here as well in order to get your feedback. Please let me know if this is frowned upon here at TMU!

It seems that your Vzone mattress would be exactly what I am looking for. The adjust-ability is awesome! AND, for a full 20 years?! Incredible.

I am concerned as to how using a cooling pad such as the the Eight Sleep I mention below would effect the overall performance of the Vzone mattress. I am pretty much set on using a cooling pad, so if it would not work with the Vzone mattress, that would be a deal breaker for me.

___________________________________

I haven't been happy with a mattress since I don't know when, but my current journey began about 8 years ago when I decided to upgrade to a Saatva mattress.

We started with the Luxury Firm (because, well "support"). I was NOT happy with it at all, WAY too firm! We exchanged for the Plush Soft (yeah, right...."soft"), their softest mattress at that time. This was still too firm for my liking and I told them so. They were kind enough to send out a topper (foam, not latex) for no charge. The topper helped immediately and I could finally sleep without massive pressure points and an achy back.

However, after a couple of years, the topper lost it's supportive qualities and I was back to where I started. I contacted Saatva, and they were kind enough to send out another topper for no charge! This kept me happy for another couple years, but when I called this time, no more free toppers....they wanted $325!

I then purchased a 3" "soft" latex topper from Sleep On Latex (due to recommendations from this forum) and I have been pretty happy with the latex over (admittedly worn out) Saatva foam topper over Saatva mattress for the last 2 years or so. But now, the mattress itself is breaking down and there is a definite divot on both sides (can't be flipped). So I am now in the market for a new mattress.

We have a King bed and would want to stay with that size. My wife doesn't care about any of this....she could literally sleep on anything. lol I am 6'5" / 250# and she is 5'9" / 160# and we are both side sleepers for the most part. We are considering one of your "split" mattresses, mostly for the isolation but the different firmness of both sides is probably handy considering our vastly different weights.

I am a very hot sleeper, I suffer from terrible night sweats (have seen my doctor about it multiple times, and there seems to be nothing wrong with me). I do plan on purchasing some sort of active cooling pad regardless of which mattress I purchase (currently leaning towards the Eight Sleep "Smart" mattress cover).

I have read the tutorial here on the forum, so I consider myself fairly educated in the basics now, but would like to know after reading my story what your recommendations would be!

Thank you in advance!

__________________________________
13 May 2022 19:09
  • Basilio
  • Basilio's Avatar
Hi Alan P

Sorry to hear your current Saatva is “breaking down and there is a definite divot on both sides”. It’s definitely time to get out of this vicious loop of replacing the topper on a mattress that is clearly deteriorating. It looks like latex is your preferred choice, so durability won’t be an issue unless your BMI gets past 30 in which case a latex topper or comfort layer in plush (19 ILD or less) would undergo more mechanical stress and may need to be changed overtime.

We have a King bed and would want to stay with that size. My wife doesn't care about any of this....she could literally sleep on anything. lol I am 6'5" / 250# and she is 5'9" / 160# and we are both side sleepers for the most part. We are considering one of your "split" mattresses, mostly for the isolation but the different firmness of both sides is probably handy considering our vastly different weights

Thanks for providing your stats and history with the current mattress – I’ve read the recommendation SleepEZ made and they are well thought and sound for both you and your wife.

Sleep EZ recommends I keep my current Sleep On Latex 3" "Soft" topper and go with their split 7" foam mattress with these layers; firm SPLIT with medium Dunlop for the second layer (wife's side), and extra firm SPLIT with firm for the bottom layer (my side).

A 10” mattress/topper is thick enough to accommodate the weight differential and would be suitable for someone transitioning from a pillowtop or another mattress/topper as SleepEZ explained. The topper they recommend, however, is a new Talalay and not your current 3” Dunlop, (SOL sells only Dunlop) additionally because of the weight differential they recommend different firmness for each sleeper. This is what they say.
As such, my advice is to order the 7" natural latex mattress and order a separate 3" Talalay topper to go on top of that. I recommend medium Talalay glued to soft Talalay for the topper (medium for your side and soft for her side).”
This makes sense too as the difference between Dunlop and Talalay feel can be quite noticeable as Phoenix explains:
“Talalay is considered to be more "springy" or "lively" than Dunlop because you will generally sink in deeper which means there is more up and down "movement" or "ride" with Talalay and it springs back more strongly and quickly. This creates a different "feel" between the two materials and is also why Talalay is often considered to be more pressure relieving than Dunlop because it allows for a deeper cradle in the same ILD ... while Dunlop is considered to be more supportive because it doesn't compress as deeply with greater weight ... all else (including ILD) being equal of course. “
It's all depending on your needs and personal preferences but from what you described I’d guess that Talalay would better suit your need for more plushness.
I also like the idea of the toper having two firmness levels as it can be more adaptable. At your BMI a medium firmness is a good recommendation as Talalay feels softer than Dunlop in the same ILD and will hold better in terms of durability over time. You are lucky that your wife can sleep on almost everything as you have some room for experimenting with what build best suits you if it turns out that the medium is still not plush enough for you it’s easy enough to rotate the topper and have the soft on your side.

They know their materials and designs better than anyone else and their recommendations are based on averages of their experience with customers that are similar to you.

Sleep EZ recommends I keep my current Sleep On Latex 3" "Soft" topper and go with their split 7" foam mattress with these layers; firm SPLIT with medium Dunlop for the second layer (wife's side), and extra firm SPLIT with firm for the bottom layer (my side).

Could you confirm that this is what they recommend for the 7” Natural Latex mattress? I am thinking that at your BMI and side sleeping you’ll go through the 3” Talalay topper and feel the Extra-Firm second layer which may create some pressure points for you. Either way, this can be easily fixed by switching the bottom and middle layer to your side.

So I’d make sure to ask for clarification from Arizona SleepEZ Factory They are very experienced at mattress matching consumers and the 7” Latex Mattress with a 3” topper has very good odds of working for you.

I am a very hot sleeper, I suffer from terrible night sweats (have seen my doctor about it multiple times, and there seems to be nothing wrong with me). I do plan on purchasing some sort of active cooling pad regardless of which mattress I purchase (currently leaning towards the Eight Sleep "Smart" mattress cover).

Keep in mind that the cooling pad / Eight Sleep will modify the surface tension of the mattress and the comfort level you settle on. Also, softer mattresses will "sleep warmer" than harder mattresses as you’ll sink in more, and the more, you’ll be insulated, regardless of the materials within the mattress. Also, less surface area of your body is exposed for heat exchange.

More breathable comfort materials can flow more air and help with both humidity and temperature regulation. There is more about tracking mattress temperature regulation issues potential causes ~ Post #2 here

Sounds like you are on the right track.

Basilio
12 May 2022 13:51
  • Alan P
  • Alan P's Avatar
Hi All!

Below is a post I made in Sleep EZ's subforum. I would like to get the groups' input on their recommendations so I don't make any missteps along the way. :)


I haven't been happy with a mattress since I don't know when, but my current journey began about 8 years ago when I decided to upgrade to a Saatva mattress.

We started with the Luxury Firm (because, well "support"). I was NOT happy with it at all, WAY too firm! We exchanged for the Plush Soft (yeah, right...."soft"), their softest mattress at that time. This was still too firm for my liking and I told them so. They were kind enough to send out a topper (foam, not latex) for no charge. The topper helped immediately and I could finally sleep without massive pressure points and an achy back.

However, after a couple of years, the topper lost it's supportive qualities and I was back to where I started. I contacted Saatva, and they were kind enough to send out another topper for no charge! This kept me happy for another couple years, but when I called this time, no more free toppers....they wanted $325!

I then purchased a 3" "soft" latex topper from Sleep On Latex (due to recommendations from this forum) and I have been pretty happy with the latex over (admittedly worn out) Saatva foam topper over Saatva mattress for the last 2 years or so. But now, the mattress itself is breaking down and there is a definite divot on both sides (can't be flipped). So I am now in the market for a new mattress.

We have a King bed and would want to stay with that size. My wife doesn't care about any of this....she could literally sleep on anything. lol I am 6'5" / 250# and she is 5'9" / 160# and we are both side sleepers for the most part. We are considering one of your "split" mattresses, mostly for the isolation but the different firmness of both sides is probably handy considering our vastly different weights.

I am a very hot sleeper, I suffer from terrible night sweats (have seen my doctor about it multiple times, and there seems to be nothing wrong with me). I do plan on purchasing some sort of active cooling pad regardless of which mattress I purchase (currently leaning towards the Eight Sleep "Smart" mattress cover).

I have read the tutorial here on the forum, so I consider myself fairly educated in the basics now, but would like to know after reading my story what your recommendations would be!



Sleep EZ recommends I keep my current Sleep On Latex 3" "Soft" topper and go with their split 7" foam mattress with these layers; firm SPLIT with medium Dunlop for the second layer (wife's side), and extra firm SPLIT with firm for the bottom layer (my side).

Does anyone see any issues with me giving this mattress a try, or should I be considering other options as well? Are there any important considerations I missed?

I should add that cost is really not an issue, I am willing to pay for my "ultimate" mattress this time around....I want zero regrets! Of course, less is always better. ;)

Thank you in advance for any and all advice!

Alan
11 May 2022 11:30
  • Alan P
  • Alan P's Avatar
I haven't been happy with a mattress since I don't know when, but my current journey began about 8 years ago when I decided to upgrade to a Saatva mattress.

We started with the Luxury Firm (because, well "support"). I was NOT happy with it at all, WAY too firm! We exchanged for the Plush Soft (yeah, right...."soft"), their softest mattress at that time. This was still too firm for my liking and I told them so. They were kind enough to send out a topper (foam, not latex) for no charge. The topper helped immediately and I could finally sleep without massive pressure points and an achy back.

However, after a couple of years, the topper lost it's supportive qualities and I was back to where I started. I contacted Saatva, and they were kind enough to send out another topper for no charge! This kept me happy for another couple years, but when I called this time, no more free toppers....they wanted $325!

I then purchased a 3" "soft" latex topper from Sleep On Latex (due to recommendations from this forum) and I have been pretty happy with the latex over (admittedly worn out) Saatva foam topper over Saatva mattress for the last 2 years or so. But now, the mattress itself is breaking down and there is a definite divot on both sides (can't be flipped). So I am now in the market for a new mattress.

We have a King bed and would want to stay with that size. My wife doesn't care about any of this....she could literally sleep on anything. lol I am 6'5" / 250# and she is 5'9" / 160# and we are both side sleepers for the most part. We are considering one of your "split" mattresses, mostly for the isolation but the different firmness of both sides is probably handy considering our vastly different weights.

I am a very hot sleeper, I suffer from terrible night sweats (have seen my doctor about it multiple times, and there seems to be nothing wrong with me). I do plan on purchasing some sort of active cooling pad regardless of which mattress I purchase (currently leaning towards the Eight Sleep "Smart" mattress cover).

I have read the tutorial here on the forum, so I consider myself fairly educated in the basics now, but would like to know after reading my story what your recommendations would be!

What say you, Sleep EZ?!

Thank you in advance!
11 May 2022 08:56
  • elektrobank
  • elektrobank's Avatar
I've been at this for nearly 2 years now. I've tried a ton of mattress in stores and also purchased and returned many bed-in-box mattresses, such as SleepEZ, Wink, Brentwood, Zinus, Tempurpedic, and have hated them all. I currently am on the Tempurpedic because I was told it was the best thing for my back pain, but I'm finding the opposite to be true. It's the most uncomfortable bed I've ever owned, it's made my back pain worse, and I hate going to sleep on it at night. I'm past the return period but plan to sell it and take a big loss on it because I hate it so much.

I don't know where to turn next because I've tried full latex, latex hybrid, memory foam hybrid, full memory foam, and Tempurpedic. I feel I've tried every kind of bed and nothing has been comfortable. I used to like very plush, pillow top beds in the past, but that is not ideal for my back now. I need something that is supportive and keeps my spine aligned but doesn't feel too hard and has a bit of a plush feel. I tried the Saatva recently and it seemed ok in the showroom, but have no idea how it's going to feel at home, and the reviews are iffy. Can anyone recommend what I should try next and if the Saatva is a good option?
10 May 2022 12:44
  • SherryBin309
  • SherryBin309's Avatar
Karia,
I’m a little older than you but about the same weight and struggle with sciatica and also shoulder pain. In 2014 we did a DIY latex mattress based largely on information and resources found on The Mattress Underground. Thank you, Phoenix! Once we had found a good layer setup for alignment a lot of my back problems went away but I was still having hip pain — side sleeper, here — which I attributed to the need for pressure relief there. At the time, Sleep Like a Bear sold 1” layers of 15 ILD Celsion latex (Talalay with some cooling properties, I think) and I bought one that was a couple of inches short at a good discount. It helped tremendously. About 18 months later I had further hip pain and bought another one at full price. Good again! In 2018 the hip pain was back and I eventually bought another inch of 15 ILD Celsion. In all cases, I just added the new layer on top of the rest of the mattress inside a very stretchy cover.
The last couple of years I’ve lost weight and begun to have lower back pain on waking. Long story short, I probably should have been replacing the old inch of very soft latex with a new one instead of just adding on to the mattress. A few weeks ago I took the mattress apart and it looks like all three of those thin, very soft layers have softened a great deal where we sleep. You can’t really see it on just one, because they are so thin, but with all 3 stacked, the body impressions are clear. And removing those pieces altogether felt pretty good for my lower back and my alignment is much better now. But, as of last night, the old hip pain is back so I’m looking for another thin topper,
Just something to keep that in mind if you are able to find a 1”, very soft piece of latex, it won’t last forever. Latex is very durable, but maybe the very soft pieces, sliced thinly, wear faster than average.
Unfortunately, Sleep Like a Bear no longer sells Talalay latex and I know from experience Dunlop won’t be comfortable for me in the top layer, so I’m also interested in what you find. So far I see that Saatva sells a 1.5” latex topper. They told me via chat today that the ILD range is 12-16 and it has a 180 day trial period and would be returnable if it was not comfortable. I also see that Plushbeds has a 2” very soft latex topper on sale this week but it is not returnable. The sale price is not significantly better than the price at Arizona Premium Mattress, but shipping might be faster.
I have found no 1” latex toppers on offer and only the Saatva one at 1.5”. It is very pricey, but I may end up going for it if nothing else turns up soon.
06 May 2022 11:31
  • Borenich
  • Borenich's Avatar
I am also in that weight range. 3 mattress trials and then I found Brooklyn bedding custom hybrid. I used talalay latex for the top layer with an organic cotton top. I think latex is the way to go. I wanted to avoid it because health care workers have increased sensitization over time, but this is way more comfortable then the others I tried.Nest Sparrow, Saatva ultra plush, Sleepys Hush Plush. Foam just seems awfully unresponsive. If it’s still too firm you can always get a latex topper. Good luck!
02 May 2022 22:04
  • Basilio
  • Basilio's Avatar
Hi RetroAvenger, and welcome to The Mattress Underground :)
Happy to have you here.

This mattress business is overwhelming. I am 5'8" 175lbs (male). I usually fall asleep on my back and wake up on my side. I've looked at Helix/Birch/SleepEZ/Saatva/etc. I've been interested in the SleepEZ Hybrid because I think I like the traditional feel of coils, but am unsure about the latex. I'm open to coils/latex but probably want to avoid foam (foam is too easy to indent in my experience).

You are right, shopping for a new mattress can be overwhelming… To begin with, if you have not already, you may want to take a look at the Mattress Specifications you need to know here as well as the Mattress Durability Guidelines to get a better idea of what to look for in a new mattress, and also the Mattress Shopping Tutorial The more basics you know(without having to become an expert at it), the easier it will be to narrow your choices down. This said you seem to be on the right track.

You are also correct that lower density foams can prematurely ‘break down’ or indent – especially memory foam of more than 1.5-inch thickness that is below 3.5 lbs/cuft. Latex is a durable material and with your BMI, you should not have this problem, I see that you are gravitating away from memory foam or polyfoam products but I’d still recommend you go to a local shop and determine if you like the feel of latex. I am not sure if your selection from Helix or Saatva is for hybrid memory foam/polyfoam combo but if that’s the case you’d need to be aware of the density of the components in a hybrid mattress to assess the potential for it to wear prematurely.

If it helps, I normally sleep on my right side with my right arm under my pillow. I normally wake up with pins and needles in my right arm (this morning I woke up with a pinched nerve and my fingers have been tingling all day). The mattress I currently sleep on is medium-firm and I don't think I want to go much softer than that. I also don't like sinking into the bed.

A mattress is unique to the specific sleeper(s) using it, and is based on your PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and your stats (height, BMI, sleeping position(s) and any underlying health conditions. Good job on providing your stats – you have a slightly high BMI, you say you sleep on your side, and that you get ‘pins and needles’ in your arm when waking. This could be an indication that your current mattress is not providing enough comfort for your side sleeping position. The “pins and needles in the right arm” positioned under the pillow may be caused by blood circulation obstructions due to pressure from both sides. There is a bit more information about sleeping positions and posture this in this article here .

Also in arm numbness and shoulder pains cases, Phoenix often points out that “if the mattress is too firm then if you sleep on your side, your shoulders may not sink in enough to relieve pressure and your upper body can "twist" away from the pressure so your upper body is "twisted" more forward while the lower body is still on its side. This spinal twisting or torsion can twist the spine in the upper body and lead to soreness in the area of the twist. There is some much more detailed information on shoulder and arm issues in posts #2 and #3 here . I’d first try to determine if sleeping on a softer surface (more comfort) will address the “nerve pinching” and the pins and needles. You can accomplish this by placing a 1”-2” thin softer comfort layer atop of your mattress and see if this relieves any arm pains. A medium-firm mattress is a good choice for support and spinal alignment, but it may be a counterproductive when it comes to comfort especially for a side sleeping position. Can you determine what percentage of the night are you sleeping on your side? If the pains persist despite changing what seems to be an improper sleep setup for your side sleeping, you may also want to consult a medical professional as the tingling in your fingers may be something more serious.

Any suggestions or experiences are welcome. Looking to stay under $1500 USD.

The good news is that you have lots of options in your price range, Ideally, you would want to test out mattresses in person; some the mattresses you mentioned seem to be available in many ‘big box’ stores; These may be perfectly suitable for you, but a word of caution if you are considering any mattress with memory foam or poly materials. I would not buy anything without fully knowing both materials they use, (density and layer thickness being the most important in terms of durability and how long the mattress will maintain its shape). You say you are looking at Hybrids as you ‘like the traditional feel of coils’ – this feel is very popular among side sleepers. For comparison, you may also want to take a look at the offerings of the Trusted Members of the site. There are quite a few hybrid mattresses available from them that are close to or within your budget, and these manufacturers are of good quality with transparency in their materials and components and have great customer service.

You mentioned Arizona SleepEZ . I am guessing you are looking at their Latex Hybrid Mattress which is well within your budget. SleepEZ excel at matching sleepers with the right comfort and support providing you call and give them a bit of history and explain the pains you are experiencing,

Once you decide if you like the feel of latex or if you’ll stick with the old memory/polyfoam feel we can certainly comment on any specific mattresses you have narrowed your search to.

Basilio
01 May 2022 16:48
  • RetroAvenger
  • RetroAvenger's Avatar
This mattress business is overwhelming. I am 5'8" 175lbs (male). I usually fall asleep on my back and wake up on my side. I've looked at Helix/Birch/SleepEZ/Saatva/etc. I've been interested in the SleepEZ Hybrid because I think I like the traditional feel of coils, but am unsure about the latex. I'm open to coils/latex but probably want to avoid foam (foam is too easy to indent in my experience). If it helps, I normally sleep on my right side with my right arm under my pillow. I normally wake up with pins and needles in my right arm (this morning I woke up with a pinched nerve and my fingers have been tingling all day). The mattress I currently sleep on is medium-firm and I don't think I want to go much softer than that. I also don't like sinking into the bed.

Any suggestions or experiences are welcome. Looking to stay under $1500 USD.
24 Apr 2022 20:09
  • robberbar
  • robberbar's Avatar
I'm new here, but I know how user-driven forums work, and I've dug in enough that I'm confident that I've done the searches and thread research. What I'm going to do is list a few questions/issues and check my thinking with this awesome resource. I'm not saying my questions are new, but perhaps they will be concise and generally useful. The kind of post that invites answers in between the questions. So here goes:

1) Here is the easy one. Avoid the "S" makers. Sealy, SImmons, Serta, Sterns and Foster, and probably Saatva. Got it.

2) ignore the youtube reviewers and pay attention to the "ingredients". The kind and gauge of coils, the kind (and extent) of foam," latex or semi-latex. (i'll unpack this one below)
Dunlop vs. Talalay. I get that latex is going to hold up longer -- but how important is this, and how much (at which layers) is best?

3) there seems to be an enthusiastic DIY community here. Either building one from scratch yourself, or fixing an existing. Cool. But that's not for me. Maybe in 12 years, when I'm retired. but not now. Frankly, it sounds a lot like rebuilding a carburetor to save $500. I tried that once. It eventually worked, but I paid a lot more in parts and tools. And I have no idea how to value my time back in my 20s. I'm not prepared for a new obsession/hobby. Am I wrong?

4) I've spent about 3 days reading and searching, and I really value the neutrality and non-bias of Phoenix. BUT besides a ton of "think twice" warnings, I'm not seeing actual positive recommendations, other than working with a "trusted partner". As biased as they may be, there are "best mattress of me" choice tools out there. Is that really awful?

5) I'm not the first, by any means, to complain about the misinformation of the "review sphere" online. I will ask one simple question. I'm 330, 6"2, married (and my wife is pretty heavy too -- I don't ask). I'm a side sleeper. I only toss/turn because my hips and shoulders are increasingly uncomfortable on my 20-y-o high end beauty rest. I've done as much research as I reasonably could, and I'm thinking the winkbed plus is the best choice. My question is, can anyone suggest a (potentially) better alternative?
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