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Searched for: Healthy Foundations
29 Nov 2021 20:35
  • Mattrebuild
  • Mattrebuild's Avatar
I think there's some confusion in this thread about foam density (which tells you about the quality/durability) and Indentation Load Deflection or ILD (soft vs firm). Now memory foam is even harder to quantify than other materials like polyfoam and latex because it changes characteristics with temperature.

This might help a bit as well: www.healthyfoundations.com/blog/?p=288
05 Aug 2020 18:31
  • Jethro
  • Jethro's Avatar
Hi Redfox!

Thanks for your question and congratulations on your new mattress! Welcome all the way from Australia! We love the Aussie unique strain of healthy humor (with and without a good night sleep) :)

I had purchased a new bed frame/foundation but used 10x wooden slats from my old frame (12 years old). These wooden slats were Pine wood, 3cm thick and 9cm wide. The gaps between these slats were around 8.5cm - 10.5cm. I slept on this for a week and it was comfy, it was the right firmness for support with plush for comfort.

However, I realised that these gaps may be too wide and reduce the lifespan of my new mattress. So I went and bought brand new slats. 14x Pine wooden slats 3cm x 9cm. Now the gaps are 3.5cm - 4.5cm (around 1.6"). Sleeping on it for the past 3 nights I feel like the firmness has increased and gotten less comfortable than previously with 10x slats.

I appreciate the background information. I entirely understand wanting to use the correct base for your new mattress and get the most comfort and longest life out of your new purchase!

1. Are my new gaps of 4cm (1.6") too close and detrimental to a side sleeper? I don't want to have issues with my shoulders and hips over time.

You have a latex mattress and you are using pine slats (3cmx9cm). I realize there is not a whole lot you can do with your frame, since the slats are currently glued in place. That said, if you feel the mattress is too firm, you could try with 7.6 cm (3”) gaps maximum for better comfort.

2. Do Natural Latex mattresses soften over time to become more comfortable? How long on average?

I took a look and can see that the mattress is 100% natural latex. All foam materials will soften over time but natural latex, in general, is the most durable of all the foam materials so it will soften less and more gradually than other types of foam materials as it is denser, more resilient, and more supportive than its blended or synthetic latex counterparts.

The softness of a foam material will also affect its durability because softer layers are less durable than firmer layers that use the same type of material, and foam materials will also soften and break down faster for those that are in higher weight ranges than for those that are in lower weight ranges.

There will be a break-in and adjustment period for any new mattress or sleeping system as the mattress loses any of its "false firmness" and the cover stretches and loosens a little and the materials settle and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (Learn more about that in here ).

You may have already come across this resource, but it never hurts to check out/compare the specifications of the mattress you have purchased with our Mattress Durability Guidelines .

With 6” mattress thickness (15 cm) I think you are just on the threshold of sleeping well and not so well on this mattress mainly because the mattress is a bit too thin to allow for a right comfort/support balance for a BMI of 25.3 kg/m2 (73kg, 170cm) which leads me to believe that you might do well to add a topper. If I could comfortably afford it there is no doubt I would go in the direction of adding more thickness to the mattress (see post #14 here ) and also check that then the topper/mattress combo is a good "match" for your weight range in terms of PPP, but I would wait for the adjustment period before I would make that determination.

3. Weird that my warranty states gaps should not be more than 3cm, which seems very close.

The first thing to do is always to check with the mattress manufacturer you’ve purchased and ask (in writing) of their opinion and permission to make sure that the foundation is appropriate for the new slat arrangement and doesn’t void your warranty (the difference would be between .5 – 1.5 cm which is not too much and I expect that a good manufacturer would not void the warranty). But you need this in writing if things don’t go as well as you expect with the durability of the product.

I agree that 3cm seems close and IMO not that necessary. Most manufacturers recommend 3" (7.62 cm) or preferably less for latex. You would also want to compare this with the width of the slats themselves. I would consider you also check the recommended slat width with your mattress manufacturer if that information is available.

I hope this helps offer some clarity regarding the best base for your new mattress!

08 Dec 2019 10:45
  • kamrah
  • kamrah's Avatar
Hi there!

First off, I would like to thank everyone who has contributed to this great forum. Lots of very helpful information!

I would like to ask a specific question that you guys, with all your experience, might be able to answer!

In order to better understand how much a flexible slatted foundation can add to a sleeping system, I would like to know:

For someone who weighs a very light 125lbs, using a 6inch (medium/firm) all latex mattress, would a flexible slatted foundation provide any additional flex? I know this is very specific... but all I read is that "it depends on weight and thickness" and would like to have a better idea what that means!

Even though the mattress on a hard surface is already quite perfect, the person concerned is healthy & athletic and was looking for a hard latex mattress to begin with, I'd like to explore if a flexible foundation can add any benefits (taking into consideration the persons lightweight & the thickness of mattress).

10 May 2018 22:48
  • r7
  • r7's Avatar
New member and first post... First, I am glad to have found this site. It feels like a cove of refuge in a storm of information. There are so many sites that seem to be intended to appear brand neutral but seem to be designed to drive business to a certain vendor. Finding TMU was a welcome relief.

When we bought our Tempurpedic in 1998 it was relatively obscure and I had the audacity to order it over the internet, which at the time was not a very common method of procuring a mattress. I ordered it from Healthy Foundations before Tempupedic crushed their online discount vendors.

It was the first successful bed compromise for my spouse and I. I came from full motion waterbeds and my wife came from traditional S mattresses. We used a hybrid waterbed for a while with linear tubes covered by a more traditional mattress top. It was tolerable for both, but not very good for either.

The Tempurpedic was a revelation. After "melt-in" I could sleep for a whole night on my back, barely moving, despite having had a back injury. Although very different it reminded me of the great sleep I used to get on a waterbed when splashing down in the middle of my king size bed by myself. Worked well for my side sleeper wife as well, but I digress...

Back in '98 we looked at Stroebelpedic, Tempurpedic and a few others. I was a little uncomfortable with the initial offgassing of the Tempurpedic original, but after that it has been great. Even now it's not too bad, but I notice kind of a high point ridge in the middle that slopes to either side. When my wife was away I slept right in the middle and noticed that the memory foam worked better there, more like original.

Now looking at mattresses again, it is a whole new world. Now internet purchase is common and there is a whole new category of industry disruptor bed in a box companies.

I spent time doing research and started to head in two directions. One was toward a newer memory foam mattress. The Select-a-bed tri-pedic or the related Tempflow series looked like a good best in class memory foam alternative. Even back in '98 I was intrigued with the idea of memory foam over latex so I started looking at that type of hybrid like the Select-a-bed Soft-pedic. Then the latex bug bit me hard and I have been looking at all the full latex options like those from SleepEZ and others.

Unfortunately all of those companies listed above that interested me are not based here where I am in the Pacific NW. Now on to some particulars:

I am 5-11, 170 lbs and prefer to sleep on my back or on my back with legs rotated to one side. I often need to move around now as the old tempurpedic does not seem to provide the same support and find myself also on my side. Sometimes if my back really hurts I might wake up on my stomach in the morning. Based upon what I have read here, and knowing a bit about my PPP I think I would like a soft Talalay comfort layer, but relatively thin so my lumber still gets good support. My wife is 5-6, 200+ side sleeper. We are 58ish in age.

Any ideas would be appreciated. I have been studying up on the different latex variations and ILD and the like. Have others gone from memory foam that they liked to latex and been equally or more happy? Are there any vendors in the greater Seattle area that would have some high quality latex to try? Sorry for the long first post.
08 May 2018 21:49
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Bradbaker1989.

Before seeing your reply to my question I had intended on buying the Zinus Green Tea Memory Foam 6" which has a 1" comfort layer and a "high density" support layer. I considered this is the best price and it is reviewed to be great by commenters and I've found articles saying it's the best mattress in the price range

While you may have read somewhere that Zinus is “the most popular low budget brand”, it wouldn’t have been here on this site. And even if you had read somewhere that someone considered this to be the case, while other people's comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful, always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about using anyone else's suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases this can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words, other people's experiences in general won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ).

Regarding Zinus… I would also read post #6 here about mattresses imported from Asia or China and which may have been compressed for long periods of time in either shipping or storage before being purchased, and being sourced in China would make this somewhat of a risky purchase IMO. The “High density” they use to describe their product… is a term used for any foam greater than 1.5lbs in density and as Zinus does not freely share their specs it is very likely that they use the lowest end the “high density” spectrum. They do not list the firmness (IFD) of either the 1” memory foam layer or 5” base support foam and the 6” Green Tea appears to have a “egg crate” cut on the top of the 5” base foam. This will soften the base foam, at least on the top section that is cut this way. All in all they use mostly low / mid quality materials although they are CertiPur certified. They are most commonly sold under many brand names in big box stores and elsewhere. Whenever you see "green tea" you can assume the manufacturer is Zinus.

It is certipur certified which is important cause I have 4 pets and I don't want any kind of unhealthy smells coming from the bed and make any of them or myself ill

You are correct Zinus is CertiPur certified but just to clarify a few things about your prospective purchase from Zinus. CertiPur is a testing standard that tests for harmful substances and VOC's in the polyfoam and memory foam used in mattresses. They have a list of mattress manufacturers here which are certified (which includes Zinus) and the foam producers that are certified are listed here . You can see what they test for in more detail here and here The foams are certified to not be harmful to the environment in regards to ozone depletion, not use certain chemicals and have low VOC emissions. It does not guarantee a foam/memory foam mattress will be without odor.

The reason I want to build the bed is because I have invested 400 in this topper that I can't return and I want to use it and don't want to pay so much out for a mattress and just want to use the same density base layer used in a bed that I find to be supportive and that way it's not so much money. The topper is brand new.

You may wish to peruse and compare with some other low budget options, better quality options that you may wish to consider.
Sedona Sleep sells a polyfoam base mattress (Trusted Member of this site)
www.addable.com/ sells a memory foam mattress.
Nest Bedding has their Love & Sleep mattress. (Trusted Member of this site)
DouglasBed From site member Novosbed. Canadian-only. Memory foam over polyfoam layer and polyfoam base.
Christeli has one memory foam option (Trusted Member of this site)
LuxiSleep has a low budget option as well. (Trusted Member of this site)

I will say that laying this topper even on the floor as hard as the floor is it makes the topper so much more comfortable cause of course the floor doesn't sink... So I'm thinking I need a base layer that is pretty firm... But I'm sure I'll benefit from a little bit of give. It's just I need a base layer that won't sink too much. Would the Zinus' 1" of comfort foam cause the same kind of sink that my pillowtop does and just I end up with the same problem?? I feel think if softer it should give more comfort to my topper and then a relatively hard layer below would definitely get the job done...

If the topper works well enough for you on the floor, then you are correct that a firm enough mattress under it will help with both adding some comfort and to raise it off the floor. I am not sure on which part of your personal value equation your mattress selection was based, as you mentioned mostly price and other people’s reviews or opinions, but If you are working with a more restricted budget, post #4 here and the posts it links to also include many of the better lower budget online options I'm aware of (Zinus is not on this list). If you chose to go with this mattress for different reasons keep in mind that depending on your needs and personal preferences the mattress could work as a base for your topper but I will have a shorter useful life. If the product does not perform as well as you are hoping for at least you’d have 100 night in home trial (which is standard in the industry for most bed in the box mattresses)

Some of the mattresses from Ikea may also be worth considering (see post #3 here and the posts it links to) There are also some lower budget latex and latex hybrid options that are listed in posts #3 and #4 here that are in "relatively" lower budget ranges (although some of these may be more than your budget). Some of the new "simplified choice mattresses" that are also in relatively low budget ranges (from $600 to $1000 queen size) are also listed in post #2 of this topic and may also be worth considering.

Hope this helps.
I'm looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding ... and of course any additional comments or questions you may have along the way that I or any of the Expert members of the site can help with.

07 May 2018 10:05
  • Bradbaker1989
  • Bradbaker1989's Avatar
Okay thanks so much and I'll look into the individual articles. Before seeing your reply to my question I had intended on buying the Zinus Green Tea Memory Foam 6" which has a 1" comfort layer and a "high density" support layer. I considered this is the best price and it is reviewed to be great by commenters and I've found articles saying it's the best mattress in the price range. It is certipur certified which is important cause I have 4 pets and I don't want any kind of unhealthy smells coming from the bed and make any of them or myself ill.

Considering you saying I basically have to test out mattresses to see what I like. If I go try out tempurpedic mattresses and use the same density support and idk if they sell one anymore bthat has only the 5lb density followed by a high density base layer... But the original or one of the first ones had two layers. 3" 5lb tempurpedic foam (my topper exactly) with a high density base layer. So if I can find a bed that uses 5lb memory foam that feels like what I have which is firm but you slowly sink it's pretty firm tho... But if I find a bed with the same feel comfort foam and that has a HD base layer and if I find one I like... And if it's just two layers... Would I be able to just find out the density and ILD of their support base layer and then just buy that?

And btw my mattress is too old to return or replace. It still looks to be flat and I'm using a side that wasn't used much but I think half the prob or possible all of the problem cause I can just tell the bed underneath is sinking and causing the topper to sink and I wake up hurting cause of the lack of support. My old bed tho is great it's a pillowtop on both sides and interspring in the middle... But I just wanna use it as a guest bed and get myself a new one.

The reason I want to build the bed is because I have invested 400 in this topper that I can't return and I want to use it and don't want to pay so much out for a mattress and just want to use the same density base layer used in a bed that I find to be supportive and that way it's not so much money. The topper is brand new.

So do you have any suggestions about the Zinus mattress or do you think me finding a bed that uses 3 inch of 5lb foam followed by a high density base layer and find the one that holds me up properly and then ask about the exact density and ILD. And then just buy a base layer??

I will say that laying this topper even on the floor as hard as the floor is it makes the topper so much more comfortable cause of course the floor doesn't sink... So I'm thinking I need a base layer that is pretty firm... But I'm sure I'll benefit from a little bit of give. The topper tho is doing the comfort and partly is pretty supportive. It's just I need a base layer that won't sink too much. Would the Zinus' 1" of comfort foam cause the same kind of sink that my pillowtop does and just I end up with the same problem?? I feel think if softer it should give more comfort to my topper and then a relatively hard layer below would definitely get the job done... But I don't know...I don't prefer interspring mattresses btw for a base layer because I don't want a bouncy bed I want it to isolate movement cause I wake up really really easy.

Thanks for your help!!
09 Sep 2017 18:27
  • Apeiron
  • Apeiron's Avatar
Hi Phoenix!

I've been reading your site for awhile now, and I really appreciate the abdunance of information here and your attempts to remain unbiased in people's purchasing decisions.

In hindsight, this post ended up being extremely long, so if please feel free to skip down to the "a new hope" or "what I'm basically asking is" sections since the back story might not all be necessary.

5ish months ago I purchased a Spindle mattress (continuous pour Dunlop latex from mountain foam) in a medium configuration for myself and my girlfriend. We are both 22 years of age, primarily side sleepers, right on the cusp between healthy and overweight BMI (25-26) and 5'6" 162lbs and 5'4" 150lbs respectively. I have a wide-shouldered frame and she has a wide-shouldered and wide-hipped frame, so point elasticity is a must for us. I have long had some difficulty with mattresses, in an odd way. Hotel beds usually seem great/fine and pose no problems, but "normal" inner springs, sleep numbers, and a lot of the more common mattresses tend to cause pain, and as I have gotten older the pain has increased more and more.

So, when I got to purchase my own mattress for a change, I was extactic. I knew exactly what I wanted, a soft memory foam. I purchased a Tempflow Eros from Relief Mart. It felt pretty darn good ever since I got it, but maybe could've been a little more supportive. Nevertheless, I no longer woke up in any pain, and so I was very pleased and was happy with my choice. Unfortunately, something changed. I started to put on some weight during the sedentary lifestyle of college (around 20-25lbs), and simultaneous the mattress started to feel differently. Come to find out, I had apparently failed to provide the mattress proper support, and the combined weight of myself and my girlfriend on the improper foundation was causing the mattress to sag. I didn't realize this since I was in school, and just thought it odd we were having to turn the mattress monthly. But, then monthly became weekly, and then every couple days, and I realized something was up. I started looking for a new mattress ASAP, and initiated a warranty return with Relief Mart. Unexpectedly from my new mattress research and my warranty return I realized the foundation and even bed frame were inadequate for the Tempflow mattress. Relief Mart sent me a topper, and eventually offered me a 50% discount on a new mattress, but I was rather frustrated by the lack of guidance I received in terms of foundations and decided to go with a Spindle instead, for a comparable price. I just want to say, Spindle has been immensely helpful and patient with me, and was very clear about proper foundational support for the mattress and proper care in all respects.

The Spindle was a large improvement over the Tempflow with broken down comfort layers, but it quickly became apparently that it definitely wasn't quite right. I spoke with Kim at Spindle, and informed him I thought the mattress might be too firm. After some questions, Kim believed the mattress might actually be too soft, but I got him to eventually agree with me. Then I second guessed myself because I moved my layers around and found some improvement with Medium/firm/medium. I therefore told Kim I would play around with the layers and to hold off. It turned out the best configuration I found was the Medium/firm/medium, but it wasn't quite right. Since going former helped before, but it wasn't quite right, Kim agreed to send me an additional firm layer and try the f/f/m + medium topper configuration, or a f/f/m configuration. Unfortunately, this did not solve the problem, and if anything made it worse. At our wits end, Kim eventually suggested that perhaps latex just isn't right for us.

I did some more research, and realized that I believe my problem with the spindle lies in the nature of Dunlop latex itself. Quite frankly, I don't think the larger compression modulus of Dunlop provides sufficient opportunity for our shoulders and hips to sink in. Measuring my shoulders, I have about 3" from the widest part of my chest under my arm pit to the outside of my shoulder, so I think I need about 3" of a consistent compression comfort layer. I believe the medium Dunlop is not permitting my shoulders to sink in sufficiently and is therefore causing me to twist my spine and place the pressure of basically my entire body weight on my ribs (note, this is basically the nature of my experience on Dunlop, sleep number, and most inner spring beds alike. I believe this is a "learned" position my body has used to compensate for the fact it's just not possible for my shoulders to be even remotely straight in any of these types of beds).

I asked Kim about putting a 3" memory foam layer on top of the Spindle, and he and Neil agreed that they think this sort of configuration could produce good results for me. In response to this line of thought, I purchased a 3" layer of 3lb density novaform memory foam from Costco to test out the theory. I placed the 3" memory foam on top of two firm layers of Spindle latex (approx 90lb/ft^3 density?). This produced incredibly favorable results for my shoulders and ribs at first, but over a few days I developed lower back pain and the rib pain returned, though my shoulders were actually able to finally get the softness they needed. I believe we were simply sinking straight through the 3lb foam since I definitely have a fairly dense body mass (25ish and 26ish BMI as I mentioned) and feeling the firm layers underneath. I switched out one of the firms for a medium, but again got lower back pain as my lower back began to feel unsupported.

Additionally, the memory foam was extremely hot for us after sleeping on latex for 5 months. Plus, we really enjoyed the fact that the latex, because unlike our previous 5lb memory foam, it didn't make us feel exhausted just from turning over and getting in and out of bed as the 5lb density foam in the Tempflow Eros used to. These memory foam gripes aren't really deal breakers by any means, but together our results got us thinking.

A new hope:
As a result of thinking about our various gripes with memory foam -- in addition to its positives -- we realized we really did like the "feel" and benefits of latex, even if we hadn't had quite what we were looking for with the all Dunlop Spindle. We decided try some other types of latex, so we drove two hours (each way) to our nearest Savvy Rest dealer. Our theory was from our testing of the more firm Spindle and the positive feeling of the softer memory foam, that more firmness had proven that it was not the answer. Based on what I'd been reading about the differences between talalay latex and Dunlop, I was really excited to try some softer talalays and see how I felt about them. My girlfriend didn't know what she would like, but definitely wanted to try out something different since our bed was hurting her as well -- in similar ways to how it was hurting me (though it probably helped that I sweetened the deal with a visit to the nearby natural history museum after we'd visited Savvy Rest.).

At Savvy Rest, our salesperson started us off on their Medium/Soft/Firm Dunlop and Soft/Medium/Firm Dunlop mattresses. These configurations were okay, and the Soft/Medium/Firm was definitely good, but I was still excited to try the Talalay.

So, we moved over to the Soft Talalay/Medium Dunlop/Firm Dunlop. For me, I quickly noticed this configuration caused my lower back muscles to noticeably strain to keep my spine aligned. My girlfriend also did not feel the soft Talalay on top was supportive enough. Instead, she tried soft Talalay as a 3" topper on top of Savvy's 7" mattress, and was clearly hooked. She did say she experienced some sort of discomfort in her ribs that she couldn't quite place, but said it was the best in the store for her and she'd have to sleep on it to know if the rib issue would go away (she postulated that perhaps it is residual tenderness from the Spindle's firmness).

For her, soft/medium/firm all Dunlop was a second, but she felt after laying on it for awhile that it may prove to be too firm. When I explained to her about Dunlop's rapid compression firmness, she felt this supported her idea that the soft Dunlop top layer may prove to be too firm because she was sinking in to it a lot.

On my side of things, I was undeterred by the failure of the Soft Talalay on top, and I forged ahead. I tried the Medium Talalay/Medium Dunlop/Firm Dunlop and it felt very, very good. Over time, I began to notice that the "pushback" of the Talalay seemed to be pushing my hips and shoulders up a little too much, but it still felt blissfully, finally, soft enough for my ribs. I asked my girlfriend to try it, and she almost immediately felt that it pushed her hips out of alignment. Conversely, when I tried her topper on top configuration, it felt okay but kinda felt like I was going right through the "soft" Talalay (I believe Savvy Rest uses N2 Talalay global as "soft") and didn't quite feel "right" somehow. That said, she was hogging it, so a longer stay by me on it may have produced a more positive result.

I asked our Savvy Rest salesperson (who I just want to say was very professional, helpful, and not pushy in the least) about their ILDs and told him that the soft talalay seemed a bit soft for us, and the medium talalay a bit firm. I asked him if they had anything in the middle between the two. He stated the soft Dunlop would be the closest thing they had, but confirmed that Savvy Rest tends towards mediums as "medium firm" and that there was a sizeable disparity between their "soft" and "medium layers.

As a result, I suspected I could find something online that might be in the middle between their two talalays. After some snooping here and elsewhere, I found two sources that state Savvy's soft to be N2 by Talalay Global, and their medium to be N4 by Talalay Global. So, I have a strong suspicion that, at least for me, a talalay global N3 at around 25-27 ILD comfort layer with medium and firm Dunlop underneath would be a "perfect" combination, at least based on short duration testing. I am hoping this will work for my girlfriend as well, since the topper was really good, but wasn't exactly perfect for her. We also tend to sleep in a single "blob" in the middle of the mattress together, both on our sides, so she wonders if even though the soft topper worked well for her in the store, it might not be supportive enough throughout the night, and we'd feel more of the Medium Dunlop than we'd like. Quite simply, she really liked the talalay but stated she really didn't care for how it performed inside the mattress in either case -- (medium or soft).

So, based on testing and projections, the N3 might be perfect for us. But I have reservations since we're not *that* high in the BMI range, and since we're curvy side sleepers theoretically we should need a soft comfort layer, and the N3 is supposedly more "medium." It makes me wonder if the Savvy soft was actually an N1, or just some sort of very soft N2, or if it is an N2 and I'm just denser than others. From what I have read on here about the experiences of others of lesser and also greater height/weight ratio (larger or smaller BMI than us). So, theoretically, an N2 sounds like a great blend of softness and support for most people, and so it makes me wonder if some part of my information might have been incorrect. Maybe Savvy is using N1 or something, or the N2s we tested had been used so much they'd broken down, or were just generally old and broken down? I just haven't seen the N3 very often as a comfort layer choice for "normal" or nearly normal BMI/height + weight individuals. And "statistically" the curvy nature and sleeping position would push us toward more softness. I'm trying to decide which layer to purchase, and logically the N3 seems a strong contender and a choice worth testing, but the N2 seems "safer" because even if we don't like it we can just stick it in the topper configuration my girlfriend liked and I was okay with. Further, the topper confirmation would, I believe, increase the "point elasticity" of the mattress, which is something we both definitely benefit from. So, the N3 could be great, but it's a risk. What I'm basically asking for your advice on (finally!) is:

Have you seen N3 Talalay work as a comfort layer work, especially over medium and firm Dunlop? Based on what I've said, do you think, completely speculatively, the N3 has a good chance of success for us? I understand you can't feel what I feel, but I'm trying to ask if there's some reason why N3 doesn't seem to be a common choice for a comfort layer? I am concerned that the N3 is a more speciality piece that is often "best" suited used as a comfort layer for heavier or much heavier people since they would compress the layer more?

My fear is, obviously, we get the N3 and simply find that we need the extra point elasticity from having the comfort layer as a topper rather than inside our 10" mattress. Since we're not that high in the BMI range, and others seem to do well on the N2, I worry that I am putting too much faith in my experience at Savvy Rest. Nevertheless, my experience at Savvy Rest was definitely a positive experience for me and really pushed me towards some type of latex, because I really enjoyed the feel of laying on their Medium Talalay, even if it was a bit firm. It was one of the best feelings I've experienced on a bed, but of course this was 5-10 minutes of laying and not sleeping. I also worry that since I erred on the side of firmness last time, I'm more inclined to err on the side of softness this time. Of course, we may simply have to try the N3 a couple different ways and exchange it if it doesn't work for us, or it may work for me but not her or vice versa. With return shipping fees in the $80 range and toppers with return policies costing an extra $~50, it does make exchange still a costly proposition so I'm of course really just after a "best odds" choice here.

As an aside, I was also curious if the N2 and N3s have any tendency to run on the higher or lower end of the 20-24.99 (N2) and 25-29.99 (N3) ranges? As in, is an N2 any more likely to be in the 20-22 (or 25-27 for N3) range rather than the 23-24.99 (28-30 range for N3) range, or vise versa? Is there some universal advice that things tend to run on the lower end or on the higher end? I think I basically want something around a 25 ILD.

Thank you so much in advance for your help, and I apologize for my extremely lengthy post!
15 Jul 2017 11:38
  • O_D_O
  • O_D_O's Avatar
Thanks for the quick response, Phoenix!

I mean that the whole mattress is slanted, from head to foot. It's probably hard to picture if you haven't used one. Some examples: www.amazon.com/Beds-Up-Elevating-Inclined-Insert/dp/B004O9ARW4 or this one: www.sleephealthy.com/sleepshop/bedsup_insert.shtml

You can see how the frame has triangular sides so that the mattress is one long slope.

I've seen similar ones that are foundations (ex, www.texasmattressmakers.com/acid-reflux-foundation/) that might work on a foam mattress? But I'm having a hard time finding anyone who's used them for a latex or foam mattress.

Potential issues I can see:
1) The angle might cause the mattress to slowly compress from head to foot
2) I might have more sliding issues than with my current setup
3) or poor edge support might mean that I have to get just the right footboard so that the whole bottom edge of the mattress stays in alignment
And naturally there could be something else I haven't thought of that would cause an inclined foundation to not work with a foam mattress.

I'm really interested in hearing from someone who's done this with a foam mattress. If that's not possible than hopefully there's someone around who has experience with foam mattresses and can make some educated guesses to at least get me started on figuring this out?

Thank you,
15 Jul 2017 08:33
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi healthysleep,

I’m kind of in a firmness dilemma though, and so I turn to you for assistance! The company sells: Soft, Medium, and Firm. Jennifer, from SOL stated: “…based on your feedback, I would suggest our 9" medium which has a 6" core of medium-firm (34 ILD) and a 2" layer of soft (20 ILD) on top. All of the layers are made with the Dunlop process, so both layers offer plenty of support for any position.” She (Jennifer), originally assumed that the top layer of the Savvy Rest I liked (2nd best, after Naturepedic Quartet –which also had a top firm layer of Dunlop), was Talalay, but I explained to her, that the three, 3” layers of Savvy Rest were all Firm Dunlop, with a total of 40 ILD.

In any situation like this, the best advice you’ll receive is from the actual manufacturer, as they would have the best knowledge of their products and what they think would best suit your needs, based upon your phone conversations, your body type, sensitivities, testing you’ve done and other information relayed to them during your discussion.

If the Savvy Rest model you tested used three layers of their “firm” Dunlop (and ILD isn’t cumulative, so there wouldn’t be a “total of 40 ILD – assuming you meant each layer was approximately a 40 ILD), this would be a very hard mattress and outside of Savvy Rest’s normal recommendations. Specifically, Savvy Rest recommends a medium Dunlop on top of their two firm Dunlop layers as their “firmest” combination.

If you’re considering ordering everything with the wool topper you tested, then the “firm” Sleep On Latex would “most closely” approximate the Savvy Rest you tested, but it would be harder deep down, and I wouldn’t know how you would react to such a combination with the wool topper as there are entirely too many variables that are unique to each individual and the only way for you to know what mattress/topper combination would be a good “match” for you would be through your own personal testing.

You can read my thoughts about buying a mattress/topper combination that you can't test in person in post #2 here . As you can see it's not something I would generally suggest either in terms of risk or quality/value unless there were no better options available to you.

One of the awesome benefits of ordering through their company is that one can still exchange or return for whatever reason, within 100 days. However, I would prefer not have to do so, and plainly love our future mattress from the get go!

Of course this would always be your ultimate goal (and is the goal of the retailer as well), but there is no 100% certainty with items when subjectivity like this is involved, so it is nice to have the exchange available to you and be able to test things in a “real-world” setting over the course of a month.

Regarding your question about adjustable beds, you’ll have to provide me the distinction you mean between adjustable beds and adjustable bed frames. Those two terms are usually referring to the same thing – power foundations placed under a mattress that elevate the head and the foot area.

There is more information about choosing an adjustable bed in post #3 here and the main adjustable bed topic that it links to that can help you choose an adjustable bed based on price vs features comparisons and also includes some retailers that you can use as good sources of information about the features of the adjustable beds they carry and as pricing references as well (in post #6 in the main adjustable bed topic). Of course there are many other sources as well and prices can change on a regular basis so I would also include some internet searching in your research. I would also keep in mind that online advertised prices are often price controlled so make sure you call the stores you are considering to find out their best prices rather than just looking at websites. Here is another adjustable bed base thread with some manufacturers listed.

I would consider all the major adjustable bed manufacturers to be closely comparable in terms of reliability so I would use price and feature comparisons to choose between them. I would also give some careful consideration to the type of features that you may find useful over a longer period of time because some of the features they offer may seem very "enticing" when you are shopping but some people may find that they don't use them as much as they thought they would once the novelty has worn off.

04 Jul 2017 06:36
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi healthysleep,

You'd want to check with the manufacturer to make sure that any product you are considering is "adjustable bed friendly", but most of the innerspring mattresses that are made to be used on power foundations do use pocketed spring units and those tend to be quite "bendable".

05 Jun 2017 13:18
  • The Toddler
  • The Toddler's Avatar
Thanks for that insight, Phoenix. Would you say all of these foundations are suitable for pocket coil mattresses as well? That’s what I’m eyeing, a latex/pocket coil hybrid. I am concerned about the coils seeping through the slats.

Or am I worrying too much? After all, most setups will have three layers between the springs and the slats anyway – the thin fabric surrounding the coils, the thicker mattress cover, and the thin foundation cover, right? Still, that doesn’t seem like the ideal recipe for a completely uniform surface for the coils to sit on.

There seems to be a wide variety of approaches depending on the company. Arizona Premium Mattress (with 1050 coils in a queen), Flexus Comfort , and Plushbeds don’t have any extra layer between the springs and their mattress cover. Arizona and Plushbeds have 2.5” between their slats, while Flexus (using the U.S. Box Spring foundation ) has 2.75”. Nest bedding has no extra layer, either, and they say their mattress has 1,100 coils . At that number, I’m guessing the coils are small in diameter, but their foundation looks like it has huge gaps . And the ecoterrabeds.com/products/ecoterra-latex-mattresses?variant=38327851399EcoTerra mattress , with no extra layer, says any foundation with less than 3” gaps is OK.

But Lumasleep has [url=http://http://bit.ly/TMULumaHome]an inch of HD polyfoam[/url] under their pocket coils, even though their foundation has just 2.5” between slats.

And Savvy Rest just launched a pocket coil hybrid (not on their site yet but there are some details here ), and they ask that you put one of their bed rugs on top of their foundation, which has 3” gaps – specifically stating that “due to the unique nature of the encased coils, platform beds and other similar bases cannot have gaps between the slats greater than 2".

OMI goes even further with their foundations . They say their mattresses’ pocket coils are 1.25” in diameter, and call for a padded foundation with slat gaps of no more than 1” or else placement of their supplemental foundation layer, which is similar to Savvy Rest’s bed rug.

Many of the examples above also have perimeter coils for extra edge support, and they appear smaller than the main coils. If nothing else, wouldn’t these have a greater risk of seeping through the gaps?

I’d guess your advice would be along the lines of: “Call the individual companies for their assessment. Adding a bed rug couldn’t hurt if you want peace of mind.” But I’d appreciate any additional insight! Thanks so much.
08 Dec 2016 11:46
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar

I’ll do my best to answer your questions.

In your opinion, do you think a latex mattress can be high quality without the wool quilting in the cover?

Certainly. The ultimate jobs of the mattress cover in a component system is to assist in keeping the contents contained, to help provide protection (UV rays, abrasion, liquids, etc.), potentially help pass federal flammability regulations, potentially assist in temperature regulation and also contribute to the final comfort of the product, amongst other things. The type of cover used comes down to your own personal preference as part of your PPP and the quality of components used to make the cover.

Is it a myth that metal innersprings can conduct radio waves and be a health hazard?

You can see some comments about innersprings and electromagnetic (EMF) fields in these post here . It's certainly not something that would concern me in any way.

Do you know if adjustable bed bases (like the Reverie 3E) expose people to unhealthy levels of EMF's?

I’ve seen no compelling, objective and reproducible data supporting this and would personally have no concern (you can again reference my post above). Most motors on the power foundations operate only when a button is pressed to have them move the position of the base unit, then they are off. Most bases are also UL or ETL certified, although I’m not aware of the specific protocols used for each manufacturer and whether or not testing for EMFs is included for these items. If you have a personal concern, you can always hire a company to perform a test for EMFs in your home.

I'm wondering if a mattress shop that is not a member of the Mattress Underground (Eg. CPR) indicates a particular concern with their products?

It would not necessarily be correct to infer that I “have a concern” with a manufacturer/store by the omission of that manufacturer/store from this site. I will state that an invitation to be a member of this site is only done after a very extensive vetting process (which would exclude about 90% of the stores in this industry), confirming that the business is completely transparent about the materials in their mattresses and that they share the goals and ideals of this site.

The goal of the site has always been to provide information about "how" to choose a mattress that provides the tools and information that will make the quality and value of a purchase self evident so that each person has the knowledge and information to be able to assess the suitability, quality/durability, and value of a mattress purchase for themselves based on their own unique needs and preferences and criteria regardless of what anyone else may prefer or recommend and without having to "believe" anyone. One of the most important goals of the site has always been to be fact based and to promote full disclosure so that anyone can validate the information for themselves and not have to "just believe" anyone (including me), and I’m always happy to point to good specifications or value whenever I find it, regardless of membership here.

I hope that helps!

10 Jul 2016 11:53
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
Hi Wll,

While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but just in case you haven't read it yet ... the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Other than these "basics" ... this may be a rather lengthy reply since I would question some of the assumptions you may be making that could be making your choice much more difficult than it needs to be.

I am searching for an organic latex mattress or all natural latex mattress with as many organic components as possible because I have asthma and cannot tolerate off gassing.

The only reliable way to to assess the "safety" of different materials in more general terms is based on lab tests and the certifications they have for harmful substances and VOCs so that you have some assurance than the VOCs are below the testing limits for the certification. If the materials in a mattress or the mattress itself has a reliable "safety" certification then for most people they would certainly be "safe enough" ... regardless of the type of material or the name of the manufacturer on the label or whether the materials are natural or synthetic or have an organic certification.

All the latex you are likely to encounter (either Dunlop or Talalay that is made with either natural or synthetic rubber or a blend of both) will have a reliable certification such as Oeko-Tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold or C2C and based on actual testing I would consider any type or blend of latex (regardless of whether it is natural or organic) to be a very "safe" material in terms of harmful substances and VOC's (offgassing).

Most people that are looking for an "organic" mattress or materials are usually concerned more with "safety" than whether the materials have an actual organic certification but they have come to believe that "organic" latex is somehow "safer" than latex that doesn't have an organic certification. Much of this can be based on some aggressive marketing about "organic" latex which implies that it's somehow "better" than non organic latex. There is more information about the three different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and some of the benefits of an organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different types of organic and safety certifications such as Oeko-tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold, C2C, and CertiPUR-US in post #2 here and more about some of the differences between organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and there are also some comments in post #42 here that can help you decide whether an organic certification is important to you for environmental, social, or personal reasons or whether a "safety" certification is enough.

While it may be more information than you are looking for ... there is also a lot more information in post #2 here and the more detailed posts and information it links to about safe, natural, organic, "chemical free", and "green" mattresses and mattress materials that can help you sort through some of the marketing information and terminology that you will encounter in the industry and can help you differentiate between them and answer "how safe is safe enough for me" and that can help you decide on the type of materials and components you are most comfortable having in your mattress or on the certifications that may be important to you. These types of issues are complex and are generally specific to each person and their individual sensitivities, circumstances, criteria, beliefs, and lifestyle choices.

I also have dust mite allergies

There is more information about dust mites and allergies and methods that can be used to control dust mite populations or other allergens that are related to mattresses in post #2 here and in post #3 here . There is also more about allergy encasements in post #2 here that may also be helpful.

but I have a wool allergy to complicate matters.

However the mattress was wrapped in wool for fireproofing which is not great for my wool allergies.

All of the mattresses you mentioned contain wool but wool allergies or sensitivities are generally contact allergies or sensitivities and it would be unlikely that they would be an issue in a mattress. There is more about wool allergies or sensitivities in post #2 here and in post #4 here .

I thought an innerspring mattresses would offer the best support for my back and neck and shoulders and my heavier husband.

I certainly wouldn't assume that one type or category of mattress would necessarily be "better" than any other in terms of "support" or any other part of PPP.

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range ... the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a "better/worse" choice (see this article ).

Each category can include hundreds or sometimes thousands of different mattresses with different designs, different "feels", different characteristics, and different firmness levels. Every individual layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting material) will affect the feel and response of every other layer and component both above and below it and the mattress "as a whole" so each mattress category will generally include some mattresses that will be a good "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP and others that use the same type of materials and components and are in the same category may but have a different design or firmness level that may be completely unsuitable for you to sleep on ... even if it uses the same general type of materials and components that would be just as durable.

There are no PBDE's in a Carpe Diem

There aren't any PBDE's is any mattress that has a reliable certification.

I emailed and called US Distributor Anthony who promised a great deal and to get us a CarpeDiem king Sando mattress (without topper) for around $10k in 2 weeks. While Michael at Ergobeds in California quoted us $18,699 for a CarpeDiem Sando king bed with topper in 4 weeks. Still those prices seemed crazy. :blink:

I completely agree that there would be little to no benefit to spending this much on a mattress for the vast majority of consumers. There could be cases where a mattress in this budget range may be "worth it" for a particular person that isn't price sensitive, where how they feel "about" a mattress may be just as important as how they feel when they sleep "on" the mattress, or that has specific and clearly identifiable criteria that aren't available in lower budget ranges and that would make a legitimate difference in how well or how long you would sleep on a mattress, but this would be very unusual and in general I would need a very compelling reason that clearly indicated there was "enough" of a difference in "real life" (and not just marketing claims) compared to many other mattresses that may be just as suitable in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP, just as durable, and that are in much lower budget ranges to justify the much higher cost.

But I became concerned about sleeping on metal components

You can see some comments about innersprings and electromagnetic (EMF) fields in posts #2 and #3 here . It's certainly not something that would concern me in any way.

Yet Naturepedic was extremely uncomfortable, too firm

Most manufacturers make many mattresses with a range of firmness levels but any specific mattress that is "comfortable" for one person may be very uncomfortable for someone else. This would have less to do with the manufacturer than the specific mattress or mattresses you tried. I would also keep in mind that children need firmer mattresses than would be comfortable for many adults.

And the 5 zones were configured strangely (soft-firm-extra firm-firm-soft) with extra firm support at the hip.

I'm not sure why you are thinking this is a "strange" zoning configuration. This is a common configuration for zoning because the hips/pelvis is the heaviest part of the body and can be better supported by firmer zones in the center of the mattress.

Zoning systems can sometimes be useful and worth considering for people that have more difficulty finding a mattress with the right "balance" between comfort/pressure relief (under the shoulders especially) and support/alignment (under the hips/pelvis especially) or who have more challenging circumstances or sensitivities, body types that are more difficult to "match" to a mattress, more complex medical issues, or who have a history of having more difficulty in finding a mattress that works well for them. There is more about zoning in this article and in post #11 here and the additional posts it links to but the only way to know whether any specific mattress (zoned or otherwise) will be a good "match" for you in terms of PPP will be based on your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) or your own personal experience.

I was intrigued by switchable zones of the vZone mattress and the choosing of your layers firmness.

One of the advantages of a component mattress with a zip cover that has individual layers is that you have good options after a purchase to fine tune the comfort and/or support of a mattress both before and after a purchase (either by rearranging layers or exchanging layers or components) and if one of the layers softens or breaks down before the others (usually one of the softer upper layers) or if your needs or preferences change over time (as a result of a weight change for example) you can just replace a single layer or component instead of replacing the whole mattress.

As you mentioned the vZone is also unique because in addition to customized layers it also has the option of customizing the zoning configuration as well. There is also more about Flobeds vZone in post #4 here and having the ability to rearrange the zones after a purchase can also be an advantage because it allows you to customize and experiment with different zoning combinations after a purchase to find the zoning configuration that works best for you if your original zoning configuration doesn't work as well as you hoped for.

I have emailed Flobeds 3 or 4 times with a litany of questioned but their answers never seem to firmly resolve my understanding of what we will be getting. :huh:

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

A phone call will generally be a much more effective source of reliable guidance and information than an email (see post #4 here ).

Would you recommend a European Slat system over a flat slat system for the base to a vZone Flobeds mattress?

Won't the arched European slat system cause a dip in the middle of a dual king zoned mattress?

Won't European slat support be uneven if you do not sleep perfectly parallel to slat foundation?

There is more about flexible slat systems in post #2 here and the posts it links to. Since a flexible slat system is an "active" part of a sleeping system (just like any other layer or component either in, under, or over a mattress that responds to the compression forces that come from sleeping on a mattress and flexes or compresses when you sleep on it) ... the only reliable way to know whether a flexible slat system would be an improvement for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP compared to a rigid non flexing support system under the same mattress would be based on your own actual experience when you test it or sleep on it in person and compare both types of support systems under the same mattress. Depending on the design of the mattress, for some people it could be neutral, for some people it could be an improvement, and for some it could be detrimental. The flobeds slat system has a separate zone under the shoulder softer zoning under the shoulders may be helpful for some people but the flexible slats would generally be less noticeable under a thicker mattress than under a thinner one or for lighter people than heavier people. Most people wouldn't notice a dip in the middle or "uneven" support since the curved slats would be compressed and be close to flat under the weight of the mattress and the people sleeping on it.

What difference will an extra 3" natural Talalay core + sateen encased horsehair topper + coir layer make in the Luxury Performance Flobeds mattress vs. the vZone without the coir or the horsehair or the extra core?

This would depend on the specifics of the layering in both mattresses you are comparing but you can see some comments about the design and materials in their Luxury Performance mattress in post #2 here .

Is there a tall king platform bed frame out there that can support a vZone mattress with center support and appropriately spaced slats using just 4 legs and no metal?

Platform beds are more of a furniture item which is somewhat outside the main focus of the forum and aren't something that I spend a great deal of time researching since there are so many different options available and mattresses take up most of my available time. Having said that ... there are a few options listed towards the end of the foundation reference post here that may be helpful.

I would be cautious about a platform bed with only 4 legs since it wouldn't have any center support to the floor which would increase the risk of sagging and can void many mattress warranties.

Once you have narrowed down your options to a list of finalists that are all choices between "good and good" and you have confirmed that none of them have any lower quality materials or "weak links" in their design and if at this point there are no clear winners between them (which is usually a good indication that you have done some good research) then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your local testing and/or your more detailed conversations with each of them, your confidence about PPP and the suitability of each one, their prices, the options you have after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or exchange or return the mattress or individual layers, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on "informed best judgement" based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

08 Mar 2016 08:45
  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar

1.) Please share recommendations for a waterproof mattress pad for a child's bed, preferably free of any vinyl or other unhealthy materials that isn't crazy expensive.

There is more about the pros and cons of different types of mattress protectors and some examples of each of them in post #89 here . If your children are at risk of an "accident" then a protector with a waterproof membrane would probably be the best choice.

2.) Is the Sleepmaster Smart Base Foundation/Platform suitable for the Brooklyn Bedding mattress.

Any foam mattress with a polyfoam support core will generally do best with a firm, flat, and evenly supportive support surface underneath it that has minimal to no flex under the mattress and for larger sizes with at least one center support beam that has good support to the floor to prevent any sagging in the middle of the mattress. The components (bedframe and foundation or platform bed) need to be strong and durable and stable enough to support the weight of the mattress and the people sleeping on it without some of the parts bending, sagging, shifting, or breaking with extended use. The support surface under the mattress (which may be slats or a steel or wire grid) should have enough surface area to prevent the mattress from sagging through any gaps or spaces in the support surface over time but still allow some airflow under the mattress. If a foundation has a slatted surface then I would suggest that the gaps between any slats are no more than about 5" (with 1 x 3 slats) as a maximum although less than 4" would be better yet.

There is more information about support systems (bedframes and foundations or platform beds) that are generally suitable for different types of mattresses and some examples of each of them in post #1 here and some of the information and comments in this topic may be helpful as well.

20 Nov 2015 13:38
  • jhk49
  • jhk49's Avatar
I live in southwest Georgia (31763) and I need a mattress. My town has the normal big box stores and furniture stores which all carry the typical name brands, i.e.. Sealy, Serta, Simmons, Tempurpedic, etc. We also have a one or two mattress specialty stores (they are rather new in town) where I always feel that the salesman doesn't know what they are talking about or doesn't really care about the customer .... only the cash. Therefore, my choices are limited .... unless I go with a name brand.

I have tried an internet purchase (memory foam) through Healthy Foundations, but after 4 years and my using a heating pad in bed regularly for back pain, the bed is just not comfortable anymore. Besides that, my wife would really like to use an electric blanket for what cold weather we have down here in the south.

So, with that said .... what has been your advice to small town shoppers who would like to find a suitable mattress? Are there some specific brands which I should focus my search on? I am willing to go to Atlanta - Macon - Tallahassee but if I am starting out from scratch, trying to locate the right store will take a lot of my retirement time away from me. Not to mention driving hither and yon in a big city.

I hope this note does not sound like a lazy mattress shopper. I am just trying to get a quality mattress, at a fair price and decent nights sleep.

Jim K.
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