Hi jared,

These are all the same mattresses (the Boyd Natural Flex 933 ) and I would be aware that "engineered latex" isn't latex at all but polyfoam that has been "engineered" with various cutouts and surface modifications to "feel" somewhat like latex. I believe this is a very misleading description of this material and there are may people who will buy it believing that it's some kind of latex when it's actually a much lower quality and less durable material.

I would also want to know the blend of the Dunlop latex (synthetic Dunlop is much less costly than natural Dunlop and doesn't have the same feel and performance) and the density of the polyfoam layers before I considered these. The information you need to assess a mattress and identify any weak links is in post #4 here . Boyd sells a lot of "cheap" mattresses with material names that make them sound like they are higher quality than they are although they also sell some higher quality mattresses that use "real" latex in thicker layers as well.

The second description includes the density of the polyfoam layers but I would want to confirm them with Boyd and also make sure that both of them were authorized dealers to make sure you aren't considering a used or returned mattress. The 4" of 1.6 lb polyfoam is also on the low side for a one sided mattress and could be a potential weak link in the mattress in terms of durability although it's in a low enough budget range that durability may not be as important to you.

The third ebay mattress you linked is also the same mattress but is mislisted as being in the Boyd flotation (waterbed) series. I would also want to know that they were authorized dealers as this type of mislisting may indicate that they know little about the mattresses they are selling and it could also be a used or returned mattress.

They have told me that their latex is OekoTex certified and that their foams are made in China by a CertiPur certified foam manufacturer but they aren't listed on the CertiPur site here .
Post #6 here about mattresses that are sourced in China or Asia may also be worth reading.

A forum search on Boyd (you can just click this) will bring up more information and feedback about them. I would be cautious about these and while they are probably better "value" than many mainstream mattresses ... I would make some careful value comparisons with some of the other mattresses that are available to you. I would also be cautious because when you are making an online purchase that you can't test ahead of time and can't be customized then it's important to have a more detailed conversation or chat with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart (rather than just being interested in "making the sale") about whether a mattress has a good chance of being a good "match" for you in terms of PPP because if it turns out that it isn't suitable for you to sleep on then no matter how much the mattress costs it would have little value to you and the return policy may also become one of the most important parts of your personal value equation .

Phoenix

Hi DogLover,

A forum search on Penny Mustard and Platinum Dreams (you can just click both of these) will bring up more information and comments about both of them.

(1) When I asked the sales associate where the latex was sourced from (EG: Latex International, etc.), she said she didn't know and that "they won't tell us." ("They" being the Michigan company that makes their mattresses. When I asked what company in MI made their mattresses, she said, "I don't know." Oy.) So, although they say it is "all natural," I assume that could still mean it is a blend. If so, is that really such a bad thing? (I'm new to this whole latex mattress thing, so forgive my ignorance!)

Platinum Dreams mattresses are made by Clare Bedding which is the Restonic Licencee in their area. Restonic sources its Talalay latex from Latex international as far as I know.

Latex International makes both 100% natural Talalay and blended Talalay. The blended comes in ILD's of 14, 19, 24, 28, 32, 36, 40, and 44. the 100% natural comes in firmness ranges from N1 to N5. If the ILD's are correct it would indicate that the Talalay latex they use is blended which many manufacturers call "natural" vs "all natural" which refers to the 100% natural ( see here ). It certainly gets confusing because if a manufacturer said that their mattresses contained all "natural" latex it can be read to mean that all of the latex in the mattress is "natural" (which is blended) while if they say all the latex is "all natural" this would indicate that the latex is 100% natural. The terminology is confusing and often leads to manufacturers and retailers confusing which is which.

(2) I asked what the "Miliken Paladin" fire retardant barrier was comprised of and, again, she responded with "I don't know." After some research it "seems" to me as if this is a low toxicity (although not completely non-toxic" substance (silica, if I am not mistaken). However, I'm not a scientist, so I don't know what I don't know.

I would consider a viscose/silica inherent fire barrier to be non toxic. you can read more about this type of fire barrier in post #2 here and the post it links to.

(3) Penny Mustard a "365 day comfort guarantee." Now, a comfort guarantee sounds nice, but I am always a bit concerned with companies with such liberal return policies; I often wonder if they just repackage the mattersses and send them out again. (A former boyfriend worked in a furniture store that did such returns (NOT Penny Mustard--he worked at a store that has since gone bankrupt) and he told me the sales reps were told to say that returned mattresses were sent to "outlets," but in reality they put them back into circulation. I asked him how that could happen because I thought that wasn't legal and his response was, "Who's gonna police it?" Yuk! So, that has always made me a little leary of working with companies that allow people to return mattresses. BUT..that could just be m paranoai based on my former friend's comments. Adding to my paranoia, of course, is PM's requirment that you buy a $60 mattress cover because, "We can't take the mattress back if it has any soil or stains on it. "It must look like new condition," according to the sales associate. Hmmm.....

It would be illegal to repackage the mattress and sell them again as new and while it's possible (and some stores have been caught doing just that) ... it's not likely IMO that they are one of them. They are usually sold to liquidation outlets who will often sell them as "scratch and dents" etc. The requirement for a mattress cover and no stains of any kind is so that employees don't have to handle a mattress with stains and the health issues that could be connected with this. Of course a stain could also affect their ability to re-sell the mattress to a liquidator or clearance store after it's been sanitized. The cost of comfort returns are built into the cost of the mattress and in some cases it can result in people who are more careful in their mattress choices and don't need a comfort exchange paying for the exchanges for people who test less carefully.

I really liked the feel of the Penny Mustard mattress better than the Savvy Rest, but am wondering about the quality of the PM mattress. They also put their mattress on a box spring. I asked the sales associate if it was okay to put it on a slatted platform bed, and she looked shocked and said, "Oh, NO! A slatted platform offers NO support for the mattress! You need a SOLID platform--or a boxspring like this." When I told her that my research indicated that a slatted platform with the slats no more than two inches apart was best, because it allowed for circulation under the mattress, she disagreed. Yet, their "boxspring" (which was a few wood planks on the bottom and very hard steel / wire on top? seemed to me to be the same concept as the slatted platform. (Right now I have an old spring mattress and traditional box spring so, again, all of this is new to me.)

A mattress is only as good as its construction and the quality of the components and materials inside it. Both of these use latex which is a high quality material regardless of the type of latex used. Savvy Rest has a more flexible design because it allows for re-arranging or exchanging layers which can fine tune the mattress after a purchase in many ways while with the Restonic you are limited to the actual design of the mattress. The Platinum Dreams is two sided and two sided designs (that are flipped regularly) are more durable than a similar one sided design. With layered latex mattresses with a zip cover you can also replace just a single layer though if the top layer softens before the rest. Savvy Rest uses either organic Dunlop or 100% natural Talalay while the Restonic appears to use blended Talalay. You can read more about the different types of latex in post #6 here and more about blended vs 100% natural Talalay latex in post #2 here .

I really liked the feel of the Penny Mustard mattress better than the Savvy Rest, but am wondering about the quality of the PM mattress. They also put their mattress on a box spring. I asked the sales associate if it was okay to put it on a slatted platform bed, and she looked shocked and said, "Oh, NO! A slatted platform offers NO support for the mattress! You need a SOLID platform--or a boxspring like this." When I told her that my research indicated that a slatted platform with the slats no more than two inches apart was best, because it allowed for circulation under the mattress, she disagreed. Yet, their "boxspring" (which was a few wood planks on the bottom and very hard steel / wire on top? seemed to me to be the same concept as the slatted platform. (Right now I have an old spring mattress and traditional box spring so, again, all of this is new to me.)

You can read more about the different types of support systems that are generally used or appropriate for different types of mattresses in the foundation post here and the two other posts it links to in the second paragraph. Box springs are generally used for innerspring mattresses although there are some latex mattress manufacturers that use them under a latex mattress (generally thinner) because the box spring can change the feel of the mattress and is designed as part of the sleeping system. With thicker latex mattresses it's generally not necessary and in most cases even desirable. A box spring that flexes can change the feel of a mattress vs a solid non flexing foundation or platform bed that doesn't flex. You can also read more about a solid platform vs a slatted surface in post #10 here . It sounds to me like their "box spring" may be a wire grid type which is a semi flex (not a box spring with actual springs which which flex) and you can see my thoughts about these with an all latex mattress (with latex in the bottom layer of the mattress) in post #10 here .


@dn,

7. It's surprising they add a chemical fire barrier at all, assuming you're correct about that. They use organic ticking and organic wool, and natural talalay. The wool would often be used to achieve fire barrier, and otherwise a mattress like that would often be sold as a premium 'organic', 'all natural', 'without chemicals' mattress at a higher price.

Wool needs to be needle punched and used in a certain amount and way to pass the fire code and it's often just as easy (and less costly) for a manufacturer to use an inherent fire barrier which gives the flexibility to either use less wool or use it in different ways. The viscose/silica fire barriers aren't a "chemical" fire barrier and are non toxic. You can read more about wool fire barriers in this article that is written by someone that I respect highly and is very knowledgeable about passing the fire regulations.

Both of these mattresses use high quality materials and there are no obvious weak links in their designs.

Phoenix

Hi sdmark,

From the picture of the "Lavendar Latex Hybrid," the "pillowtop" quilting looks too thick, and even that is a latex/poly mix.

I would probably want to know more specifics about the Lavender latex hybrid because they don't list the individual layers in order and whether it was too thick in terms of durability would depend on the specific layers of the mattress and in terms of suitability would depend on your testing for PPP.

What about the Boyd 933? Is that top layer real latex?

You can see the layers of the Boyd 933 here . It has 2" of latex in the top layer.

Phoenix

Went by the local Healthy Back yesterday. Did learn that their latex topper is ILD 15, too soft especially when placed on the concrete floor for demonstration purposes. I liked the $2500 "medium" Bliss mattress, their "most popular model," but the salesperson didn't know ILDs on the mattress layers. A follow-up phone call identified this as a Bliss Essence , so based on post #11 here , that's 1" of ILD 15 plus 2" of ILD 24. If I have that right, it's good to know that ILD 24 or below might be best for me.

I planned to visit A Bedder Buy locally to look at their latex mattresses . However after learning in post #2 here that the "engineered latex" in a Boyd 910 isn't latex, I'm not sure it's worth the trip. (I thought $399 for a queen latex hybrid with foundation was too good to be true.)

From the picture of the "Lavendar Latex Hybrid," the "pillowtop" quilting looks too thick, and even that is a latex/poly mix.

Nature's Rest and iComfort are out of my price range.

What about the Boyd 933? Is that top layer real latex?

Hi Streetr,

As you probably know ... Brooklyn Bedding which manufactures the Ultimate Dreams is a member of this site which means that I believe they are among the "best of the best" manufacturers in the country in terms of value and quality. Members here also receive a free pillow as a bonus if you let them know you are a member of this forum.

The Overstock mattress you linked is lower quality and made by Boyd and you can see the 933 model here on their website. It only has 2" of Dunlop latex (Dunlop is firmer than Talalay for most people in the same ILD when it is in the comfort layer) and there is no ability to customize the comfort layer. Boyd also insists on calling some of their polyfoam "engineered latex" when it isn't latex at all which I find misleading. It is polyfoam which has been "engineered" to feel somewhat like latex. They also source their materials in China (for some that is a factor in their purchase decision and I would read post #6 here as well). Overall it is a lower quality mattress and doesn't have the same value as the Ultimate Dreams (although it may still be a more attractive option than more mainstream choices). A forum search on " Ultimate Dreams " will bring up more information and feedback about them.

Pricing is very inexpensive and within $50 of one another so I am looking to hear which one you think would be better for a 6' 215# guy who is currently sleeping on a custom made Queen Sealy Posturepedic that wasn't custom made for me but is still pretty nice. I want to re-upgrade to King so I can use the adjustable platform that I inherited.

To some degree the Ultimate dreams can be customized for your body type because you can choose the firmness of the Talalay latex comfort layer.

Anyway, I could probably score a PLB bed for around $1,300 or so which is more than I want to pay right now or get one of these two if you think that they would be comparable. Another friend bought a Parklane for about $1,500 delivered and I have slept on her bed and it is awesome, but that is more than what I think I can get a PLB for.

Parklane is also a member of this site and makes very high quality and value mattresses. If you can get a PLB all latex mattress in a King Size though, I wouldn't hesitate to buy it (assuming you have tested it for suitability in terms of pressure relief, posture and alignment, and personal preferences). This is far below its regular selling price. Which of their models do you have the ability to buy for this price?

Phoenix