TOPIC:

Hi Phoenix. We ordered a Dreamfoam Ultimate Dreams mattress in a level 7, which is 24 ILD. Chuck was WONDERFUL to work with and I highly recommend Dreamfoam Bedding. Unfortunately the bed is firm enough that we need a topper to help with pressure points and contour support. (We've been sleeping on it for several weeks so feel like the "break in" time is adequate.) I am considering a 19 ILD latex blend topper from Dreamfoam (like the mattress itself) in either 2" or 3". Phoenix can you give some input on which one may be best? I am 140 lbs and my husband is 190 lbs and we both are side/back sleepers. Thanks!

Hi doxn,

I would probably suggest 2". Based on "averages" ... the mattress you chose already has a soft comfort layer which would have worked well for most people of your height and weight who preferred a softer surface and if you add too much more of even softer latex you would be increasing the risk of alignment issues ... especially on your back because you may be too far away from the support layers of the mattress. 2" "should" be plenty to give you the extra softness/pressure relief you need and it's not likely that you would need more.

It may also be worth considering the Seven Comforts topper which has latex "rods" instead of a solid layer and may provide some extra softness and pressure relief with a little less risk of alignment issues that comes with thick soft layers where your pelvis/hips may sink in more relative to your shoulders. If you go in this direction and the size you want is not available on Amazon ... their main site is here .

Edit: see post #52 here first if you are considering ordering this topper.

Phoenix

I ordered a 7 too and it's a lot firmer than I imagined. After seeing the video of the guy sitting on the 5 (or was it 6?) I thought that the 7 would have a lot more give than mine does. I was considering an 8 or 9 but given my statistics (5'3", 180 lb, side sleeper) Chuck thought that the 7 would be best and no higher than 8.

I borrowed the 3" topper, which I also ordered from Brooklyn Bedding, and it feels really good but I awoke with lower back pain. I think it's too much. I was going to talk to Chuck about the possibility of getting a 2" in the same 19 ild but decided to give the Seven Comforts topper a try first. If it works it will be at far lower cost than the full sheet of latex.

Doxen, did you also get the shredded latex pillow?

Phoenix,
I've already seen a few testimonies from recent customers of dreamfoam complaining that the mattress was firmer than they expected. A few even got a 7 which is supposed to be on the soft side (about 24 ilds) and find themselvess looking for a softer topper to make things more comfortable. My own experience with previous mattresses has been like this. I go to a showroom, try a mattress , feels really nice after a 20 minutes tryout a few times on different occasions. When the mattress shows up at home, it's firmer than the one of the showroom because the showroom mattress has already been broken in by a number of customers who try it. The new mattress is too firm and cause me to have more neck pain and I need to look for a new mattress.

Recently I tried a latex mattress at Ideal mattress Ltd in Toronto with the following specs :
Core : 7 " all natural italian latex (dunlop) - medium 37 Ilds 5lbs density
Top : 3" all natural sri lankan latex (talalay ???) - soft 18 Ilds / 4.6 lbs
quilting panel : organic cotton quilted with wool backed with cotton finished on both sides.
Price : $cdn 2400.00 for queen size

It was a very soft and enjoyable bed indeed.

I was also pleasantly surprised with ikea SULTAN EDSELE latex mattress which I've seen being described on the firm side, but the one I tried in the showroom was actually very nice and pleasant with a good support. Whether it will perform similar once I receive it at home is a different story. Somtimes, it takes a few days to 1 week to realise the bed isn't performing as expected. I talk from experience coz I travel a lot and get to try quite a few beds on the road for extended period of times.

I also tried the EQ3 latex mattress from Natura (loon)
* 4" 40% natural medium Talalay latex
* 2" 40% natural soft Talalay latex
* 2" medium soy polyfoam
which I found very comfortable as well . The price is $1600.00 for a queen size.

Well, all this to wonder if many ppl would do better with an 18 ILD layer at the top of the ultimate dream mattress which probably would be an 8 or a 9 in the dreamfoam rating. What do u think phoenix or is there anyone out there who's already tried an 8 or a 9 in the ultimate dream mattresses from dreamfoam and care to comment about their experience and recommendations.


Thnaks all for any feedback.
tekila

Hi tekila1,

I think when it comes to the whole subject of softness and firmness it's usually best ... and safest ... to go by each person's personal experience. What one person calls soft or even "too soft" will often be called firm or "too firm" by the next person. Much of this depends on body type and sleeping position and the construction and layering of the mattress as well as the softness that someone is used to and that they use as a reference point for their "softness" terminology. In other cases though ... even people that you would think should have similar perceptions can be very different.

As you also mention ... there is always the variable of how much a mattress in a showroom has softened (or become firmer in some cases if there is fiber in the quilting of if there is a layer of very soft foam over very firm foam which softens and allows the firmness of the deeper layer to come through more). Latex will soften less than other materials but it will still soften to a lesser degree. Other components in the mattress besides just the latex will also "break in" during the first few weeks.

For example ... most people would call the Edsele quite firm (which is also how Ikea rates it) however you experience it as fairly soft.

This is further complicated by sometimes inaccurate ILD ratings or ILD ratings that use different methods to assign an rating. For example ... if the mattress at Ideal is "Sri Lankan" latex and is really 4.6 lbs cu/ft (74 kg/cu meter) ... I would have a very hard time believing that it really is 18 ILD (more likely in the mid 20's range) and yet you still feel it as being soft when others may also experience this as a relatively firm mattress. As you can see on the Latex Green site ... they list this density as being 13 - 18 kgf (kilograms of force) which I believe sometimes gets "translated" into 18 ILD when its not. They don't even list the ILD although some distributors will test it with their own equipment.

In addition to this ... with the 1.5" of quilting foam that Dreamfoam uses ... the effective ILD of the upper layers would already be softer than the ILD of the latex that was being used.

When you are testing locally ... then ILD ratings are really not relevant because your body will tell you what is soft or firm and the numbers that are attached really make no difference. Some people will also be more sensitive to surface softness and "rate" the softness/firmness of a mattress based on this while others will be more sensitive to the deeper layers and their rating will depend on how far they feel themselves sinking down overall.

So all of this can be quite complex and subjective and has many variables but overall I believe it is far better to err on the side of firmness which can be easily "fixed" and fine tuned than to err on the side of softness which introduces some challenging complexities and is much more difficult to correct if you make the wrong choice.

For most people ... I think 19 ILD (which is the ILD of the Talalay that would be used in the softest versions) would simply be too soft in combination with the soft quilting except for some lighter and curvier side sleepers that were used to softer mattresses.

When it comes to mattresses ... it can be very "risky" IMO to go by other peoples perceptions which may be completely different from your own (even if their body type and sleeping positions are the same). Specific patterns of feedback if the numbers are large enough may be helpful if enough people identify the specific mattress layering and their own body type and sleeping positions but this is fairly rare in reviews. I think the two safest methods of making the best choice are either to trust your own personal perceptions with accurate testing that takes at least 15 minutes on a mattress fully relaxed (if you are testing locally) or to go by the "averages" of the manufacturer of the mattress in combination with any feedback you may have if you are making an online purchase.

I think that the most common "mistake" that people make is buying a mattress that is too soft ... usually in the comfort layers ... but also in the support layers because they like the "showroom feel" which often doesn't translate into the best sleeping experience in the long term.

Phoenix

Yes, I did get the shredded latex pillow. It's a very nice pillow, but has a little too much fill and I get neck pain when sleeping on my back. Better for a side sleeper, especially a man with wider shoulders than a woman.

I, too, ordered a 7 and feel it's too firm. Did you have any luck with the Seven Comforts topper? Debating b/t the Seven Comforts topper and a 2" 19 ILD latex topper from Dreamfoam. I am getting ready to order one or the other very soon but would really like to hear your feedback before doing so.