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Re: Local Manufacturer 16 May 2012 23:53 #11

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Hi kregan1013,

The latex would likely be a 6" support core and the 32 ILD (indentation load deflection) would be the level of firmness of the foam. This would be considered in the medium range.

Memory foam is one of the three main categories of foam (memory foam, polyfoam, and latex) and as a category it tends to sleep the warmest of the three. This is because it has less open cells and because you will tend to sink in more deeply into memory foam and it closely forms itself around the shape of the body so acts as a better insulator. There are dozens if not hundreds of different types of memory foam though each with a specific combination of qualities. Tempurpedic tends towards the warmer end of the memory foam range compared to other memory foams of similar density.

As a general rule ... lower density memory foam will tend to be more open celled and breathable, faster reacting, and cooler. They give up in durability however what they gain in other qualities. There are some types of denser memory foam which are more open celled and there are also other methods that are used to help memory foam sleep cooler (such as punching holes in it). There is more about the different qualities of memory foam and some of the tradeoffs involved in post #9 here and there is more about the different parts of what makes a mattress sleep warmer or cooler in post #2 here .

It is not uncommon for people to choose slightly lower density memory foam (in the 4 lb range) in the top layer of a mattress in order to gain some of other qualities they are looking for and are willing to "trade" durability for these qualities. As a general rule though ... if someone is more than 200 lbs I would think carefully about using memory foam in densities under 5 lbs unless the layer was quite thin (so the softening would have less of an overall effect on the mattress).

Even for those who tend to sleep hot ... using natural fibers in your bedding (sheets, mattress protector, any toppers or mattress pads) instead of synthetic polyester and a more breathable mattress ticking (cover) or certain specialty fabrics such as coolmax can help reduce temperature. Different types of additions to foam such as gels (which absorb heat through convection like a marble countertop) or phase change materials can also slightly reduce sleeping temperature if they are close to the surface of the mattress and not underneath other thicker layers.

There is certainly a lot to learn for those who tend towards more detailed research but I personally believe it is more effective to find someone who already knows what you want to know and willingly shares it. Post #15 here has some thoughts about this which in essence says that the more the person who is giving you guidance knows ... the less you have to know.

Hope this helps

Phoenix
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Re: Local Manufacturer 17 May 2012 15:32 #12

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I talked to them again at the mattress maker and found out htat the memory foam is 4.3 density but they also have 3.3 and 5.3. I'm 190lbs and the 4.3 felt good so I figure that should be fine. He said that the mattress has no poly foam at all - just 9" latex 32 ILD and 3" of the memory foam. Still seems like an unbelievably good deal at $1299 (including box springs)!!

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Re: Local Manufacturer 17 May 2012 16:14 #13

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Hi kregan1013,

He said that the mattress has no poly foam at all - just 9" latex 32 ILD and 3" of the memory foam. Still seems like an unbelievably good deal at $1299 (including box springs)!!


I agree that the value is excellent and if the mattress "works" for you in terms of pressure relief, alignment, and preferences ... I wouldn't hesitate to buy it.

Phoenix
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Re: Local Manufacturer 17 May 2012 17:39 #14

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Visited Worley today, it was a nice experience. I was suprised at the ammount of different mattresses he has on display. I was expecting a few of their in house mattress and a Pure LatexBliss or two but they had a lot more. No pressure and as informative as I needed. If you're on the fence about what type of mattress (i.e. latex, inner spring, memory foam, etc) one showroom and try them all! And again, no pressure to go one way or another.

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Re: Local Manufacturer 18 May 2012 10:51 #15

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Visited Worley today, it was a nice experience. I was suprised at the ammount of different mattresses he has on display. I was expecting a few of their in house mattress and a Pure LatexBliss or two but they had a lot more. No pressure and as informative as I needed. If you're on the fence about what type of mattress (i.e. latex, inner spring, memory foam, etc) one showroom and try them all! And again, no pressure to go one way or another.


I don't know why, but just looking at their website I get a better feeling than the place in Brockton. It may be silly, but something about how it feels like a couple of guys hocking mattresses out of a garage at the place in Brockton bugs me a bit. Unfortunately, I can't find reviews online for either of the places which would be a bit more settling ;)

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Re: Local Manufacturer 18 May 2012 11:28 #16

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Worley is a family business. Patrick (that's who I spoke with) has been around the Mattress business his whole life. Their website may not be to fancy, but I'd rather they make a great mattress than a great website! I spent over an hour there and didn't even realize it, comfortable atmosphere and lots of beds to lay in :cheer:

If you're not going after the 100% Latex stuff, their in house brands can save a lot of $$$. PLB Nature is $2600 (set), their latex core, double sided premium mattress is $1800 (set) for Queen size. $800 more than pays for the gas to get there and a nice lunch on the water too.

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Re: Local Manufacturer 20 May 2012 13:14 #17

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Phoenix,

Hi. This is my first post - just registered today after stumbling onto this site and reading the forum for hours last night. This seems like and honest legitimate site with good information. (Didn't totally understand your "backbone" story about yourself...but guess I get the drift :-).
I've noticed you often recommend going to a local manufacturer if possible. I hadn't even thought of that but there is one here in my city of Evansville, Indiana and it has been here over 50 years. It is called Mattress Factory Showroom. Here is the website link. mattress-factory.com. I read and really liked their verbiage on Memory Foam Myths on the sidebar and the About Us info. (Not sure about the apparent only 'Christian' businesses Link)? I think I remember buying a Queen innerspring set there many years ago that is now in a guest bedroom. Anyway, I got all excited about gong there until I saw their RETURN POLICY which reads, "Returns ... Mattress Warranty: When it comes to bedding there are many restrictions and regulations regarding returns. While most of our mattresses do come with a warranty, our warranty is for repairing structural defects. The Indiana Board of Health restrictions prohibit us from exchanging or allowing returns. However we can repair your mattress. All Other Products... We offer a 30 day exchange warranty on defective products..." After all my perusing on the net at many different sites, almost all of them offer an in-home trial of 30, 45, 60, or 90 days, albeit with some fees/charges probable. It seems kind of risky buying an expensive set with no chance of return, doesn't it? Also, under their mattress sets link on the sidebar, you only get, "Mattress Sets: Currently we do not have any mattresses available online. Our site is still under construction so please check back with us soon. Until then, you can stop in our showroom to see our full line of mattress sets." What do you or any forum members think? Thanks so much!
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Re: Local Manufacturer 20 May 2012 17:04 #18

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Hi podbay1,

Hi. This is my first post - just registered today after stumbling onto this site and reading the forum for hours last night. This seems like and honest legitimate site with good information. (Didn't totally understand your "backbone" story about yourself...but guess I get the drift .


Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

The fictional story about the "illuminati conspiracy" was written on another forum when I was in a light hearted mood one Christmas Eve in response to a question "how come you know so much". I used to get asked this fairly often and of course the real answer is that I have sought out (and still do) and had dozens of very knowledgeable people who have been in the industry or who have made mattresses for a long time be kind enough to share their thoughts with me about mattress construction, materials, and the industry as a whole. In addition to this I have done thousands of hours of research, both technical and otherwise, to help explain why some of these ideas seemed to conflict with each other when they all seemed to be "authoritative" and in an ongoing effort to answer the many questions of "why" does someone believe what they do. On that night though ... and maybe it was the couple of glasses of wine I had ... I thought I would answer the question in a more lighthearted and "different" way :)

I've noticed you often recommend going to a local manufacturer if possible. I hadn't even thought of that but there is one here in my city of Evansville, Indiana and it has been here over 50 years. It is called Mattress Factory Showroom. Here is the website link. www.mattress-factory.com. I read and really liked their verbiage on Memory Foam Myths on the sidebar and the About Us info. (Not sure about the apparent only 'Christian' businesses Link)?


Yes ... local manufacturers and better sleep shops that carry local or alternative brands are almost always the source of much higher quality in combination with better value. They are also much more accountable to their local community and consumers and tend to have the knowledge and skills that can help their customers make much better choices.

There are several factory direct manufacturers relatively near you (including Mattress Factory Showroom)

www.sterlingmattress.com/ Herrin, IL. Factory direct manufacturer. They are a little farther away but still within 100 miles. I have talked with Mike the owner and he makes a wide range of mattresses including innerspring mattresses with higher quality polyfoam and construction methods that make the mattress more durable. Also carries latex mattresses and memory foam. They are also a member of this site which means I believe they complete well with the best in the industry . He is "mattress people" and is committed to making a good mattress at a good price. He can customize a mattress according to the needs of each person and has been making mattresses for almost 20 years. There are some comments about them in this thread and they would be well worth the drive if they were close enough.

mattress-factory.com/ (factory direct) and superiormattress.com/index.htm (sells wholesale only). Evansville, IN. While I don't have specific knowledge of their mattresses or prices ... they certainly fit the profile of the type of manufacturer that I like and their website has good information and what I consider to be "accurate" and helpful information on it. They also seem to use quality materials and the odds are good that their quality and value is also good. I would definitely include them in my research.
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www.wisebuyingmall.com/bandybedding Owensboro, Louisville, Bowling Green, KY. Another local factory direct manufacturer. I have talked with John there (the founder Mary's son) and he is very open, honest, and knowledgeable. Makes a full range of mattresses including memory foam, latex, and high quality polyfoam with good quality and value. Would also be well worth including in your research. They are truly "mattress people".

bowlesmattress.com/html/where2.htm Evansville, IN. They are a regional factory direct manufacturer in Jeffersonville that has their own outlets and also sells through various retail stores. They also make a full range of mattresses and are a licensee for Lady Americana as well. There are two retail outlets (not owned by Bowles) in Evansville. One of them is a factory outlet (which means they at least 20 models on their floor) and one is a showroom outlet (at least 12 different models). These are more "retail direct" outlets.
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www.furniturerow.com/locations/locationsByState.jsp?state=Indiana Evansville, IN Regional factory direct manufacturer. They make a "mostly latex" mattress which can include either a latex or memory foam topper in addition to traditional innerspring/polyfoam mattresses. The mattresses they make use good quality materials for their budget range and have good value but I would not consider the other brands that they carry.

marksmattress.com/locations/ Retailer with many stores in the area. Carries their own line of private label memory foam and latex mattresses called Sleep Natural that may include some better quality/value options. I would avoid the major brand and liquidation mattresses that they also carry.

Anyway, I got all excited about gong there until I saw their RETURN POLICY which reads, "Returns ... Mattress Warranty: When it comes to bedding there are many restrictions and regulations regarding returns. While most of our mattresses do come with a warranty, our warranty is for repairing structural defects. The Indiana Board of Health restrictions prohibit us from exchanging or allowing returns. However we can repair your mattress. All Other Products... We offer a 30 day exchange warranty on defective products..." After all my perusing on the net at many different sites, almost all of them offer an in-home trial of 30, 45, 60, or 90 days, albeit with some fees/charges probable. It seems kind of risky buying an expensive set with no chance of return, doesn't it?


I am not a big fan of return or refund policies for local purchases because all it really does is increase the odds that someone will make a poor decision (thinking they can return it anyway instead of carefully testing the mattress) and increases the cost of the mattresses at the outlet as well. Most local manufacturers or better retailers have the knowledge to help you choose a mattress that is best for you and many manufacturers will make adjustments to the mattresses they sell at a reasonable cost which means that you are not starting all over again but simply fine tuning what you already know from your testing is very close to what you need and prefer. This is a far more 'accurate" and cost effective policy in combination with an outlet that is knowledgeable and doesn't apply pressure or use marketing techniques to gimmicks to sell their mattresses.

Of course when someone is buying from a mass marketing outlet or chain store ... then the odds are much greater that you will buy a mattress that doesn't work based on sales techniques and the managed perceptions of a showroom rather than careful testing with the help of someone who really knows mattresses so in this case a return or exchange policy may be necessary and the cost of this is built in to their much higher profit margins (lower quality mattresses at higher prices). These policies however are usually put together in such a way that any mattress exchange actually becomes a new profit center and a "reason" to get you to spend more money than you already have.

With a online purchase where you cannot test the mattress first ... a refund or exchange policy makes much more sense and can help to alleviate the "risk" of buying a mattress that you haven't personally tested.

My overall thoughts about Mattress Factory Showroom and the other outlets I listed are that your odds are much higher that you will find the kind of knowledge, guidance, quality, and value that will help you make much better choices than most of the other options available in your area. You have some very good choices here and I would certainly focus on these 5 over any other outlets in your area.

Phoenix
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Local Manufacturer 13 Mar 2016 22:21 #19

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I am trying to make a decision for an online purchase of new mattress. I live in a semi-rural area with no good access to try out much, except did get to try some tatalay options at Denver Mattress to at least see how it felt. A little unclear because they call their product HeveaPur but I was told it's tatalay. I think there are better online options for price. I have read lots of your info but still confused when presented with options, and trying to keep within a modest price range (maybe $1500 tops?). Certainly understand that tatalay is a more expensive option. But my limited experience was that when on top of 3" of a fairly soft version,(Denver lists it as 14 ILD) with a 6" 32 ILD support system, it felt good. But that was one expensive product (one in their "organic" line).
I am a side sleeper and have had issues with arm numbness with current old mattress. And lower back issues. My weight is 155. I am very active so also appreciate comfort after a hard day of activity e.g., cycling.. I also tend to sleep hot.

I have looked at a few other options; some do use Dunlop but I am concerned it will feel too firm for me, not sure of how comfortable it would feel as a comfort layer.. Although price is certainly better., This included My Green Mattress, couple of options with Dunlop totally or the Natural Escape with the coils. Talked to helpful sales person Kathy who also mentioned their Katharine model at their main? Quality Sleep location that could be shipped to me, again coil base. But also started looking at Sleep EZ options; haven't had chance to talk with them.. Their natural line is more in price range probably but they list their tatalay as blended; that confuses me. I do like that I could easily switch out a layer if it's not working in the future, vs a whole new bed. Their organic line is enticing but up there in price, depending on number of layers purchased.
Based on your info and my limited testing do think I need a 3" layer at the comfort layer level. Not sure if I know at this point if coils are okay (Denver Mattress did have tatalay on top of coils, that did feel okay but also had about 2.5" of combination of foam in upper padding, some of which described as 1.8 lb density convoluted foam; somehow thinking I don't want that due to possible long term durability questions and possible to warm of product for me.) I really don't know if there might be concerns with a blended tatalay product. I don't understand how that affects the product.
Any insight would be helpful, other options for online companies also although I certain have been going through list of those you have listed. (Also looked at Sedona Mattress but think don't want separate tatalay layer).
Thanks for all of your information, certainly has given me some insight for sure before getting a mattress.

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Local Manufacturer 13 Mar 2016 22:59 #20

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Hi msmandy,

I live in a semi-rural area with no good access to try out much, except did get to try some tatalay options at Denver Mattress to at least see how it felt.


If you let me know your city or zip code I'd be happy to let you know about any of the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in your area.

A little unclear because they call their product HeveaPur but I was told it's tatalay.

Their natural line is more in price range probably but they list their tatalay as blended; that confuses me.

I really don't know if there might be concerns with a blended tatalay product. I don't understand how that affects the product.


The choice between different types and blends of latex is more of a preference and budget choice rather than a "better/worse" choice and any type or blend of latex is a durable material relative to other types of foam materials. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here and more about how Dunlop compares to Talalay in general in post #7 here but the best way to know which type or blend of latex you tend to prefer will be based on your own testing and/or your own personal experience.

Not sure if I know at this point if coils are okay (Denver Mattress did have tatalay on top of coils, that did feel okay but also had about 2.5" of combination of foam in upper padding, some of which described as 1.8 lb density convoluted foam; somehow thinking I don't want that due to possible long term durability questions and possible to warm of product for me.)


Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range ... the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a "better/worse" choice (see this article ). The most reliable way to know which types of materials or mattresses you tend to prefer in general will be based on your own careful testing or your own personal experience.

There is also more about convoluted foam in post #2 here . You are right that convoluted layers will generally be less durable than solid layers of the same material.

Any insight would be helpful, other options for online companies also although I certain have been going through list of those you have listed. (Also looked at Sedona Mattress but think don't want separate tatalay layer).


I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but just in case you haven't read it yet ... the first place I would start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... it's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

You may have seen this already but if you are looking at online options then the mattress shopping tutorial includes several links to lists of many of the better online options I'm aware of (in the optional online step) that include many different types and categories of mattresses in a wide range of budgets, firmness levels, and with different return/exchange policies that may also be worth considering.

One of the links is to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online and many of them sell latex and latex hybrid mattresses that use different types and blends of latex that have a wide range of different designs, options, features, return and exchange policies, and prices that would be well worth considering.

When you are looking at online options and you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

I or some of the more knowledgeable members of the site can help you to narrow down your options, help you focus on better quality/value choices that are available to you either locally or online, help you identify any lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress, act as a fact check, answer many of the specific questions you may have along the way that don't involve what you will "feel" on a mattress, and help with "how" to choose but only you can decide which specific mattress, manufacturer, or combination of materials is "best for you" regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or whether anyone else (including me) would have the same criteria or circumstances or would make the same choice.

In its simplest form choosing the "best possible" mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then ...

1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP ... and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or "fine tune" the mattress and any costs involved if you can't test a mattress in person or aren't confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

3. Comparing your finalists for "value" based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
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