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fell IN LOVE with mattress at store, what was delivered does not feel at all the same. Very Worried 10 May 2012 17:12 #1

  • jujub1
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I am a person with severe chronic pain issues and get pain from my bones, nerves, muscles and joints. I am truly like the princess and the pea and have lost thousands in the past on wrong mattresses and can't believe I jumped so fast on this one! I bought the Pure Latex Bliss Beautiful model with the 3" Talalay topper. In the store, I was literally brought to tears as I had never felt such pressure relief and comfort in a mattress in all my life. Because of this I did end up purchasing since there was some pressure that a major sale was over the day before and it might never go on sale again, blah, blah, blah. They did give me a good deal throwing in an adjustable base, which I have wanted for years due to pain and acid reflux issues, at significant savings from what I can tell. On top of the pain issues from Degenerative Disc Disease causing pinched nerves and spinal cord inpingement and Fibromyalgia, my sacrum is in 2 pieces floats out of place, etc. I also have severe Environmental Illness (aka Mulitple Chemical Sensitivities), so have to worry about reacting severely to basically anything. I know I can't tolerate Memory Foams (at least not until months of off-gassing), and most beds of that didn't feel soft enough anyway; so it seemed this latex was a much better, more healthy choice. Unfortunately, the adjustable base came and it has foam on it!! I had no idea, so I am reacting severely to that, but think the latex part is going to be okay. EXCEPT the bed is MUCH FIRMER than on the showroom and I can't stand to be on it very long at all due to severe pressure points in the hips and shoulders. When you take the topper off, the bed itself feels like a plushness of 5-6 (according to my husband also) not the 9 listed on the website, who also feels it is nowhere near what the showroom bed felt like. The store was supposed to set up switching out the adjustable base with a floor model that has off-gassed for awhile, but they have not called back yet . I have spoken with Latex Bliss and I am hopeful that they will work with me to make it better, but I am so unsure as to what to do. It also seems to make us hot while on it - even with me only on it briefly, not horrible, but somewhat hot. The store told me to give it a week to soften up, and it has been 2 weeks with my husband sleeping on it only since I can't be in the room long, and it has softened up some, but still nowhere near like in the store. I am not sure if we need to try a new base, try to add another soft topper, give it more time, etc. Will it ever feel like the one in the store. This cost over $5000 and I am on a fixed income and cannot throw that kind of money away. The guy from latex bliss said they do have a softer bed, but it might cost double what this one costs!! I just want it to feel like it did at the store so I can actually try it out to see if it will work for me. He also said I might need an even softer topper that he would have them make special for me of only 10 ILD, but I am afraid that it would allow me to feel the firmer base even more unless I added it on top of the other 3" one. I have done some research and found that PLB makes some toppers with Celsion, which is supposed to sleep cooler, so I was thinking about asking about that, but worry that it could cause more chemical odor and sensitiviity problems possibly. Does anyone have any suggestions at all? Should I maybe try a different type of topper altogether (keep in mind that memory foam would have to off gas months prior to my being able to be around it -- if then.) I would appreciate any information anyone could provide. Thanks much!! (I do have a 120 week sleep guarantee for exchange only, but it might a while before I can even sleep on it depending on how long it takes them to bring the other adjustable base here. But I really doubt there is anything in the store that would even come close to being softer or better for me.

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Re: fell IN LOVE with mattress at store, what was delivered does not feel at all the same. Very Worried 10 May 2012 19:06 #2

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Hi jujub1

I'm somewhat baffled by the difference in the same model in the store and when it was actually delivered. This is mainly because latex doesn't have the same tendency to soften and "break in" as other foams and while there will be some slight initial softening and the cover will loosen slightly ... this would all be relatively minor. Some possible explanations (without knowing if any of these apply) may be ...

The mattress you actually tried in the store was not the one that was delivered. I would check the law tag and also measure the mattress to make sure it is the correct thickness and is actually the Beautiful (which is among the softest of their mattresses). You may also want to go back into the store to confirm that the mattress you tried was the Beautiful rather than something else (find the one that feels the same as you remember and see what it actually is and what it is on top of). Try the store mattress both with and without the topper to see how your mattress compares both ways.

The mattress you tried in the store was on a different base than what you are using which can affect the feel of the mattress to some degree.

The topper you received was not the same as the one you tried in the store (either thinner, a different type, or a different ILD). Again this could be confirmed with a trip to the store to re-test the mattress and topper combination that you liked.

One way or another though ... there seems to be something that is clearly different.

In terms of the adjustable base ... you can use this outlet as a reference point for price comparison as they have among the best prices on the internet for various different adjustable bases.

He also said I might need an even softer topper that he would have them make special for me of only 10 ILD, but I am afraid that it would allow me to feel the firmer base even more unless I added it on top of the other 3" one.


I seriously doubt that you will need a 10 ILD topper which is unbelievably soft and the "standard" 14 ILD or the 15 ILD Celsion would likely be fine ... especially on top of the Beautiful which is already very soft. This would especially be the case because it seems that the mattress you tried in the store didn't have a 10 ILD topper and it seemed to be what you wanted. It almost sounds like you would be "fixing" the wrong problem. I would try to find out the real cause of the difference you are feeling before I started changing what already seemed to be a good choice for you. The goal is not to "fix" something that isn't right in the first place but to get the same combination that you already tested.

Heat issues are connected both to the type of material in the mattress and to how deeply you sink into it. The deeper you sink in and the more you are "surrounded" by foam, the warmer a mattress will be. Even a mattress that uses highly breathable materials can be warmer in a softer version that the same materials would be in a firmer version where you don't sink in as much. The Celsion will make a measurable difference if this is still an issue once you have the correct mattress/topper combination figured out.

I wish I could be more help but I would definitely go back to the store, find the mattress/topper combination you liked, and then compare it exactly to that you have to make sure they match. Once you've done this ... then what comes next should be much more clear.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: fell IN LOVE with mattress at store, what was delivered does not feel at all the same. Very Worried 10 May 2012 23:14 #3

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Phoenix,
Thanks so much for the advice. I appreciate your expertise. We did already measure them as I was sure it was not correct at first and the zippered cover says it is the Beautiful. I am not sure if my husband actually saw a law tag. I will ask him tomorrow. This bed is harder and has way worse pressure points than the bed I was on (but it is not capable of being put on adjustabled base). That bed (a Kingsdown KingsCourt model) did take quite some time to soften up, so I was going off that experience. I am extremely dissappointed to say the least. We will head back to the store. I hate to confrontations, but this is not right and I need the bed to feel like the one I laid upon. I wish I had found this site prior to purchasing the bed!!! At least now I know not to just accept it if they keep saying it will soften up in time. I hope it is not the adjustable base that is causing it to be that much firmer!! I really don't think they could make a bed too soft for me, but again just never experienced such pressure relief as when I laid upon the store model. I felt suspended in air. I will be back in touch after we do so.

Can't tell you how much I appreciate your knowledge base and the tips!! I think we might be better off with the Celsion topper for the cooler surface, however, does that technology make the topper any more firm than without it? From the posts I have seen, you really, really know ALOT -- many people are benefiting from your help! The world needs more people like you in it!!

Take Care!

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Re: fell IN LOVE with mattress at store, what was delivered does not feel at all the same. Very Worried 10 May 2012 23:51 #4

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Hi jujub1,

I would probably go into the store with the approach of needing help to solve a mystery rather than expecting a confrontation. If you can find the mattress that you loved then it would be a matter of finding out what was different about it (or what else is with it) than what you are sleeping on. They should be the same unless something in the store setup that you are testing is different from your home setup that you are sleeping on. From the floor up .... this could be the adjustable base, the mattress, the topper, or anything you have on top of the topper (mattress protector, sheets, etc.). All of these could affect the feel of your mattress to some degree. The goal is to discover any differences.

If the adjustable base is the same and the topper is the same and you are confident that your protector and sheets are not the cause of the difference (which is certainly possible and could be tested by removing them to test any difference) ... then all that would be left is that the mattress is somehow different. Just to let you know ... there are also two versions of the Beautiful. One is the natural here and one is the all natural here . They are similar (and have the same rating) but are not exactly the same. The all natural would be the most expensive of the two.

Your old mattress uses completely different materials (including polyfoam) which which would go through an initial softening or break-in period in the first few months but latex is not like this and doesn't go through the same break-in period to anywhere near the same extent.

The Celsion topper is about 1 ILD different and that would be below perception and within the normal variance of a talalay latex surface. I would also test it in the store on the Beautiful though just to play it safe. It will improve your sleeping temperature to some degree and I would be very surprised if it caused you any issues because it is also talalay latex.

Hopefully a "step by step" approach of finding out what is different between the two and eliminating possibilities one at a time will solve the mystery and if the people in the store are worth their salt or have integrity ... they should be just as interested in finding out the reason as you are and motivated to end up with a satisfied customer.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Re: fell IN LOVE with mattress at store, what was delivered does not feel at all the same. Very Worried 11 May 2012 00:46 #5

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Thanks again, I needed to hear that. I really shouldn't have said confrontation, but with all my previous bad experiences, I tend to assume the worse. Also, the salesguy has already made a few promises to me that he never followed through on, so I am apprehensive. If you knew me, you would probably have a better understanding of how much I feel things. It really is unbelievable. For example, I have been trying to find tennis shoes lately also and I have had no luck and brought up feeling things in the shoes causing me pain that sales people had never heard and even had to check into to find out it was slight something or other that no one have ever felt! My pain levels are very high also and pain is literally every part of my body. I have been completely screwed 2 times before on mattresses costing thousands that I just lost most of my money on, so I am petrified, but at least I was still working and not on disability back then. This is a smaller company, so word of mouth means alot to them, so I will try to think positive. The guys that brought the bed to set it up also left horribly smelly plastic on the adjustable base that I was stuck reacting horribly to and it not allowing the foam on it to even start off-gassing. That company told me that the plastic makes lots of its workers sick and to make sure we get it off as soon as possible. Apparently, they thought it was supposed to be left on.

The mattress in the store was NOT on an adjustable base. He said it would not make any noticable difference. My husband seems to think he remembers there being a latex looking base under the mattress. I really don't remember as once I had that feeling on the bed, I just got so emotional that I was useless, and bought a bed without a full refund possibility which I swore I would NEVER do again!!! I had gone in just to look at a different bed recommended for chemical sensitivities, but it was way too hard, so the guy took us to this. After well over 25 years of horrible pain and sleep problems, I was in seventh heaven on that bed. And the ability to adjust for pain and acid will be a huge plus once I can stand to be in the room. They aired the bed out for me for almost 2 weeks and I can still smell the latex, but pretty sure it is the base I am getting so sick from. But I can't be positive since I even react to some foods cooking and woods. I have to use special soap, shampoo, laundry detergent, etc. Can't buy anything at normal stores at all. Sorry, I am venting, I tend to that when I am stressing over things. You are a voice of reason and it does help. We are planning to drive there Saturday to talk with them. First thing we will do is go straight to the bed and check it out and see if seems the same and all. Which one of the beautiful versions would be softer? Do you happen to know if their Worlds Best Bed that the Latex Bliss guy mentioned (even though it would possibly cost double and I couldn't do that) would be way softer than this model. It does sound like you think they make fairly good beds -- that is assuring to me also at least. Wish me Luck!! Thanks for your kindness and patience!!

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Re: fell IN LOVE with mattress at store, what was delivered does not feel at all the same. Very Worried 11 May 2012 01:36 #6

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Hi jujub1,

When you are in the store to find the mattress that you loved ... make sure you check to see exactly what base it was on as well as the rest I suggested. Pure Latex Bliss has a foundation which has 4 of talalay latex on top of it and that would create a softer feel than a firm foundation. If the foundation in the store is a rigid, firm foundation that has no flex in it, then it would be very similar to the adjustable bed.

The natural and the all natural would be very similar but their natural latex is slightly more pressure relieving than all natural latex. The ILDs (softness ratings) of the layers are slightly lower with the all natural though so it would probably come close to balancing out. Because of your sensitivity however you may feel one as being softer than the other so it would be a good idea to make sure the store model and the one in your home were the same although I would guess they were both probably the natural.

They aired the bed out for me for almost 2 weeks and I can still smell the latex, but pretty sure it is the base I am getting so sick from.


Talalay latex has a kind of sweet or vanilla smell to it that in most cases doesnt seem to bother people ... even those with chemical sensitivities ... although each person is of course unique.

Worlds Best Bed that the Latex Bliss guy mentioned (even though it would possibly cost double and I couldn't do that) would be way softer than this model.


The top layer is softer even though the total thickness is the same. It would be a little softer but it wouldn't be a huge difference. They rate it as a 10 and the beautiful as a 9.

It does sound like you think they make fairly good beds -- that is assuring to me also at least.


Yes ... I think they are high quality and have a good design. They are certainly better than the vast majority of mattresses sold in the typical chain stores or mass market outlets.

Wish me Luck!! Thanks for your kindness and patience!!


Good luck ... and let us know what you discover :)

Phoenix
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Re: fell IN LOVE with mattress at store, what was delivered does not feel at all the same. Very Worried 11 May 2012 01:57 #7

Hello,

Don't mean to interject too much because I feel that Phoenix is giving you some very sound advice regarding comfort selection and to help with these issues. I deal with a lot of people that have been diagnosed with very severe chemical allergies and environmental sensitivities.

Even though the all-natural latex might be better for the chemical sensitivities you have a double whammy of having to deal with severe pressure points so I think staying with what they claim is more pressure relieving is probably of benefit to you, the most off gassing you might be getting is most certainly from either the foam in the base or the glue in the base (most adjustable bases are made of plywood/particle boards) these would not be healthy for you to have in the room with you. Also PLB does have a high end latex boxspring that in theory would provide additional pressure relief, I can assure you that if the showroom model had this base under the mattress that this is atleast a significant part of the difference you are feeling at home compared to the showroom.

I would recommend you consider a couple other options and hopefully the retailer would be willing to entertain one or more of these options.

1. To bring back the electric base for the latex base that PLB carries which is made of nothing but wood, and latex.

2. If getting rid of the electric base is not something you will consider to do because of acid reflux issues, then I would highly recommend getting a very good air purifier with an active carbon (charcoal) filter that can remove VOC's from the air, it would help immensely with the chemical off-gasing component which although does reduce over time does not completely go away.

3. Another potential thing you can try to help with the heat is to try a woolen mattress protector, if you search online for the St. Dormeir mattress protector you can find a lot of positive reviews that claim a big difference in the heat. Well, technically it will not lower heat, it will very likely keep you dryer and more comfortable through out the night.

I hope I don't complicate things too much, but I truly feel for you on the chemical sensitivities as I deal with these issues for people on an almost daily basis.

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Re: fell IN LOVE with mattress at store, what was delivered does not feel at all the same. Very Worried 11 May 2012 09:43 #8

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Budgy (& Phoenix),

I am shocked to have run into someone out here that is so in the know with Environmental Illness! I have been hoping for an adjustable base for over 18 years and just never splurged to get one before. My acid issues are extreme and due to my pain issues (including cervical), I can't stand to double up on my pillows to raise my head a bit. At night the acid literally gushes out of my mouth and nose and chokes me (not constant, but enough that I often have to go just sit up somewhere instead of being able to to try sleep. I sure am hoping to be able to eventually handle being around it; but, I need the softness too and even though I have improved immensely since not working and treating the MCS, it is still very bad. I have very expensive air purifies in my house and have 3 running in the bedroom right now. Lucky me though (:lol: ), I am also highly reactive to the carbons in these "top of the line air purifiers" (Austin Air Healthmate Plus) and get very sick from them also. (I even react to the carbon masks I wear slightly, but not as bad as these purifiers.) I recently found out that I could try switching out the fiters to a different kind, but so far no luck, it is some better taking the potassium iodide out, but still getting sick from the base Hepa filter from Austin. Looking back over my test results from the center, I am highly reactive to Anthracite Activated Carbon and also just found out last night that all Austin machines use that. Unfortunately, the items (furniture and stuff used to make it safe for MCS sufferers are not plush and cushy items that my type of chronic pain issues must have and I ended up having to leave there to come home as it had gotten to the point with pain that it was impossible to stay with no place to sit or lay and unable to walk. I was so overwhelmed at the time with losing my 25 year career and a really good job and all and the illnesses that I wasn't diligent enough to push and get it right since EHC said Austin was great and they could make me able to handle them and to keep them. Austin was going to work with me to give me a discount to replace them even though I have been trying to use them for 3 years, but now I am looking at searching out and trial and error of new air purifiers. (Sometimes I feel like a strange science experiment big time!!). Those can range from hundreds to over $1000 and cost prohibitive for sure at the moment -- and no guarantee any of them will work.

I truly appreciate your input also!! I will certainly think long and hard about this. To be honest, having the bed adjust also helps with the pain as changing that type of position can give some relief (or at least a change) to pressure points also. Frankly, I am just so sick of dealing with all this!! But, you are right, it is certainly not healthy for me -- and it make take months and months before I am even able to handle it (as has been the case with memory foam pads we had to get to soften up the last beds I have had -- after a year or so, I could handle them under the sheets, but know that they are still not safe for me, just a necessary evil.) Since they brought the base in first and it permeated the room right off the bat, I never got a real chance to test the latex, but I am nearly 100% positive I would be okay with that. I will look into the wool protector you mentioned, I am allergic to wool also, but this would not be touching me so I think it could work so long as it does not have any odor that would bother me -- thanks for that too. I realize with my type of pain issues, sometimes just NOTHING will ever be comfortable -- my hair just brushing against my back can be unbearable at times. There have been times I cannot stand even the sheet touching me. Boy, I sure have found out that for anything soft in this world, you have to pay through the nose for it!! I have also made sure the sheets are loose on the bed so as not to tighten it too much, it is a bit softer without the mattress protector and sheets on, but with them not pulled too tight, it is not a huge difference, but it does always change it some. I don't know a workaround for that one though.

Oh, I did also try putting my 5 year old memory foam pad on this bed also, but it didn't help enough on the very top and made it even hotter to be on -- then we put it under the topper (it is only a 1" extremely soft pad), but not really any change in pressure points at all (and not enough change with it on top to warrant it dealing with the extra heat issues). We do have another one that is a 1/2" thicker on a different bed in a guest room that is 3.5 years old and past the unbearable off-gassing stage, but it does not have a cover on it. We have not tried that one on this new bed as I am having to try to sleep on that one right now. I can defintiely say that Latex is MUCH easier to move on than with even a thin memory foam pad, but those don't make it as bad a full memory foam mattress does to try to move.

Clearly the people at this site are some of the best people in the world -- such acceptance and understanding that has been sorely lacking for me for most all my life and such knowledge and caring too! I am just so appreciative I just can't express it in words. What a blessing it is to have found this place! Thank you, thank you, thank you - both of you!!

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Re: fell IN LOVE with mattress at store, what was delivered does not feel at all the same. Very Worried 12 May 2012 09:43 #9

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Phoenix,

This is probably a stupid question, but is it possible to get that 4" Talalay latex foundation layer to be able to go on to an adjustable bed frame? I am assuming NOT, but am wondering just to be sure. Just so I know depending on how we see we need to move forward.

Also, (fishing for reassurance here), I have read some mixed reviews as to Pure Latex Bliss themsleves works with people to resolve issues, are they usually pretty good to do so if we can't get it resolved solely with the store? So far, my experience with the Customer Service Director has been very positive, but have had a hard time getting calls answered and slow response to messages from the initial customer care number. (Only worried due to a couple reviews posted on some other web sites when I trying to find answer prior to finding this place.)

Sorry, but I do have severe anxiety I am dealing (course you probably noticed this already!)

Take Care!

Thanks again so much!

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Last edit: by jujub1. Reason: forgot to ask something else

Re: fell IN LOVE with mattress at store, what was delivered does not feel at all the same. Very Worried 12 May 2012 13:32 #10

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H jujub1,

There's no "stupid" questions except the ones that aren't asked :)

A foundation is not "bendable" so it wouldn't be suitable for use on an adjustable bed.

In my experience ... the people at Pure Latex Bliss are good people and have often gone above and beyond in their efforts to help their customers. I've seen instances of them doing something that was outside their normal policies when possible just to keep a happy customer. An example would be the offer to make you a topper with a custom ILD. It's usually the stores though who deal with individual customer inquiries and they run a "bare bones" operation to keep costs down so it's not unusual that they are sometimes difficult to reach (not that this is a great thing) but once you do they are helpful in my experience. Each individual outlet though is the one who sets the exchange and return and other policies for their outlet (non warranty policies) so the service here may be different from store to store. Some will "go to bat" for you more than others.

I take many of the online reviews with a grain of salt and sometimes people will complain about a mattress manufacturer rather than the outlet that they are having trouble with and sometimes people will give a bad review on a mattress because it is not comfortable or causes them to have a sore back when this is more about their choice of mattress than it is about the mattress itself (even the best mattress and highest quality mattress may not be suitable for a particular individual's needs and preferences and this has nothing to do with the mattress)

Hope this helps ... and let us know what you discover at the store.

BTW ... Budgy is a very experienced and knowledgeable person that has helped many people on public forums and I respect his advice highly.

Phoenix
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