TOPIC:

Hello,

In the Midnight Hour........ (Had to get that in because of my Billy Idol moniker!!!)

Ive been informally testing mattresses for 25 years. I started to develop some rules and theories. And finally shared a final choice.

1-I don't believed in pillowtops or double pillow tops. They only cave in and create body impressions. It was the big thing in the 1990s to have a double pilowtop!
2-Just because a mattress feels good in the store, doesn't mean it will feel good at home. Sometimes "feels good" turns into back ache. I don't trust inner spring mattresses at all. I can't tell which will be comfortable at home.
3-Don't listen to anyone's reviews. They are basically meaningless because they are not you. Only take data on how you feel about a bed on your body. I would take guidance from Trusted Members though.
4-The same model bed in a different store may feel somewhat different (especially with Tempurpedic) because you do not know how old the sample mattress is.
5-When testing mattresses, if possible, test them all on the same day. Our memory of mattress fades so quickly. The best is back to back laying down on mattress sessions, but that is not always possible.
6-Buying a mattress is one of vexing things to buy because every body is different and feel is subjective. I'd listen to the TMU Mattress Tutorial.
7-Make a few trips to mattress stores. Beds can feel different because of tempurature and your body maybe fresh or tired. Take your time. You will be locked into this mattress for 10-15 years!!! Take a few extra days to decide.

I bought a Tempurpedic Deluxe bed around 2002 ish (not sure the exact year). That mattress was magical. I remember that Brookstone also had their own Tempurpedic mattress, but I bought the Tempur one. I still have it, but now it is giving me backpain. Im a back sleeper (90%) and side(10%) and 5 ft 11in and 225 pounds. In 2020, I bought a Purple 4, big mistake for me. At my weight, it was killing my back. I started to realize the importance of adjustability in firmness.

Last 6 weeks, I checked out Intellibed Starlight and Matrix Supreme. They felt good, but there is no adjustability and I dont trust it because it is like Purple 4. I was really fascinated by the Intelilbed because of a Ben Greenfield youtube video when he throws a kettle bell on the beds. I won't get Intellibed...too risky.

I tried a few beds at Nest Bedding. I thought I liked the Finch Latex. Then I tried a few other mattresses for 30 min and came back to the Finch and now it felt different. I don't think I will get it.

Im on the verge of buying either a Tempurpedic Luxe Adapt Firm or LuxeBreeze Firm. I will probably get Luxe Adapt Firm!!! I know its big box, but its to die for!! Amazing mattress!!

The only other contender that I see is the Flobed Vzone because your can adjust layers and the the Vzone.

Im torn between Tempur LuxeAdapt Firm and Vzone.

I think I might buy Vzone and if I don't like it, return it

Let me know your thoughts! Any other mattresses that I should try out.
Im in the Los Angeles area.
Thank you!

John

I also tried Technogel Favola. It was so great for the back, but the side sleep felt ok. I simply felt that the Tempurpedic LuxeAdapt Firm was more comfortable. Luxe felt great on my back and side…so I eliminated Technogel. But if you are looking….I would try it out. Technoge Estasi was even softer.

John

I was really excited about Casper Nova Hybrid and Nova Snow Hybrid, but then I went back to try the Tempurpedics and I liked the Tempur a lot better. Night and day difference. I know that many say that Tempurpedic is a bad mattress, but I love them! But they arent for everyone.

There’s a big difference in the support foam they used to put in the old Tempurpedics from the early 2000’s and what they use now. The foam will break down much faster since they have lowered the density to save cost (making them more money both now and in the future since you also need a new mattress more often too). If you don’t mind latex need/want the adjustability the V-zone is very hard to beat. If you prefer the comfort of memory foam you can replace the top comfort layer with memory foam yourself since the mattress is fully zippered. The support layers are a bit more springy than polyfoam (if that’s what you are used to) but most people find talalay latex very comfortable nonetheless.

Hi BillyIdol, welcome to the Mattress Underground
Glad to have you here.

Ive been informally testing mattresses for 25 years. I started to develop some rules and theories. And finally shared a final choice.

Thanks for sharing your 25 years of lessons learned “informally testing mattresses” This is a great shortlist! As you have found, mattress selection is personal to the sleeper, based on PPP(Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and personal stats. I’d add to your list mattress longevity concerns especially as you have an older Tempur line from early 2000 when they used quality materials and their memory foams had 5.3lbs/cuft and were listed on their site. Even though they were quite expensive compared with smaller manufacturers that used similar or better materials. Later on, Tempur changed foam densities for various lineups and did not provide densities for their products. That makes purchase from them riskier as now they lack transparency and do not provide the mattress specifications you need to know so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the mattress durability guidelines here and determine how long is your mattress likely to last (no matter how well any of their products feels in the shop) As you can see from this guidelines this is increasingly risky at your 31.4 kg/m2 higher BMI.

Great observation on reviews. Reviews are subjective to that particular consumer (who has their own unique set of needs and preferences) and they are “rushed” by the companies to give their review right after the purchase which does not say anything about how the bed feels and performs over time. To make matters even worse, there are sometimes sneaky ‘paid for’ ads masquerading as reviews. With the internet now so ubiquitous all over the world, you can’t really tell if the reviewer may have an agenda and not just an opinion. Thanks for your confidence in the Trusted Members of the site; these manufacturers have been vetted for their quality of materials, , excellent customer service, but especially transparency in components and construction, unlike the ‘big box’ retailers, which have little to no factual information so you can’t really tell if they fit criteria for durability and lasting comfort.

And as you found testing in a showroom is a good practical first step, but as you point out, there are many factors in the retail environment that can affect how a mattress feels as well as their level or tiredness and state at the moment of testing. A lot of good observations! A knowledgeable consumer is a successful consumer.

I bought a Tempurpedic Deluxe bed around 2002 ish (not sure the exact year). That mattress was magical. I remember that Brookstone also had their own Tempurpedic mattress, but I bought the Tempur one. I still have it, but now it is giving me backpain. Im a back sleeper (90%) and side(10%) and 5 ft 11in and 225 pounds. In 2020, I bought a Purple 4, big mistake for me. At my weight, it was killing my back. I started to realize the importance of adjustability in firmness.

Even with having good quality foams back in 2000 Tempurpedic were significantly overpriced when compared to many other memory foam mattresses that use equal quality materials in similar layering. Each memory foam has a certain feel though which is independent of its quality so because Tempurpedic is so widely available and was the first to market ... it has become the "standard" to which others are compared both in terms of quality and feel which they have used to full advantage in their marketing materials and in their pricing. A great deal of confusion in both consumers and in the memory foam market along with continual aggressive advertising has allowed them to maintain and even increase this perception ... at least till recently.

Im on the verge of buying either a Tempurpedic Luxe Adapt Firm or LuxeBreeze Firm. I will probably get Luxe Adapt Firm!!! I know its big box, but its to die for!! Amazing mattress!!

You can see in Phoenix’s Major Mattress Manufacturers article this year that Tempur-Sealy are number 1 and 2 market share but as Phoenix often says “They ... they are no longer the "quality" leader or the "feel" leader ... however they remain the leader in name recognition and are a common "safe" choice for people who aren't aware of other mattresses of equal quality that they can reasonably compare them to.”

Both the (13”) Tempurpedic Luxe and (13”) Luxe Breeze Firm have comfort and support layers unknown composition, density and in some thickness, As they use proprietary foams for their products, its difficult to obtain these important specifications. Not that you won’t be perfectly comfortable with these mattresses, but it would be difficult to determine the durability or longevity of the mattress without this information, which are especially important at your BMI.

I tried a few beds at Nest Bedding. I thought I liked the Finch Latex. Then I tried a few other mattresses for 30 min and came back to the Finch and now it felt different. I don't think I will get it.

The only other contender that I see is the Flobed Vzone because your can adjust layers and the the Vzone. Im torn between Tempur LuxeAdapt Firm and Vzone.

I think I might buy Vzone and if I don't like it, return it Let me know your thoughts! Any other mattresses that I should try out. Im in the Los Angeles area.

You have a surplus of options for showrooms and manufacturers in Los Angeles…I’d keep in mind that Tempur and Vzone are 2 different types of mattressess and will feel different. Tempur has memory foam in the upper layers and Vzone is an all latex bed. If you like the feel of latex then Flobeds would be a great quality/value mattress. FloBeds are a very knowledgeable and transparent manufacturer and have excellent customer response and return policy, their vZone Latex Mattress is a very well-constructed latex mattress if you are leaning towards latex as a preference. They also have a dedicated forum page here if you have any questions.

All in all, it sounds like you have enough experience and idea of what you want. Please let us know if you have additional questions or let us know your experience with whichever mattress you finally decide on.

Basilio

Basilio,

Thanks for the thoughts and comments.

I do agree that it is better to know the thicknesses and ILD of each layer. I know that Tempurpedic used to list them and that was cool. I think the reason that they don't list them anymore is to limit market loss due to the DIYers. But with that said...knowing the thickness and ILD will lead to a certain feel. I feel that the Tempurpedic has that feel and I love it. I know that the support and feel is there that I want and that is the most important thing.

I know it breaks down over time. Im happy with 8-10 years of a phenomenal Tempurpedic mattress. With real tennis shoes, some real comfortable ones last 1 year and the uncomfortable ones may last 3 years, and color me crazy, but Id rather have comfort over durability. Of course, Id rather have both, but I rank comfort over durability. People tell me that Latex lasts 25 years....but I simply don't like latex. Id rather have a phenomenal Tempurpedic for 8-12 years and rebuy at that point rather than latex for 25 years that I don't like that much. Right now, I am deciding between Tempurpedic Luxe Adapt Firm and Pro Adapt firm. Some say the original Tempurpedics of the 8 inch Classic and the 10 inch Deluxe are amazing and had very high quality materials. I bought the Deluxe (firm with some softness). I have found the current equivalents of the Originals. Classic 8 inch is equivalent to Pro Adapt Firm. Deluxe 10 inch is equivalent to LuxeAdapt Firm. Im leaning toward LuxeAdapt Firm because of comfort and softness, but I think ProAdapt Firm has more support for my back. Im a back sleeper.

Hi BillyIdol,

I do agree that it is better to know the thicknesses and ILD of each layer. I know that Tempurpedic used to list them and that was cool. I think the reason that they don't list them anymore is to limit market loss due to the DIYers. But with that said...knowing the thickness and ILD will lead to a certain feel. I feel that the Tempurpedic has that feel and I love it. I know that the support and feel is there that I want and that is the most important thing.

You are correct in that Tempurpedic has moved away from providing this info over the last 10 or so years, and many of their specs/components are now under ‘proprietary material’ umbrella, so it’s not possible to determine the quality –without additional info like thickness and density, it’s impossible to make many inferences on these mattresses. That being said, the only one who can determine what mattress meets your needs is you. As you say ‘the support and feel is there that I want and is the most important thing’. Your Personal Value Equation is, as it says, personal. Its’ great you have found a mattress suited to your personal needs!

I know it breaks down over time. Im happy with 8-10 years of a phenomenal Tempurpedic mattress. With real tennis shoes, some real comfortable ones last 1 year and the uncomfortable ones may last 3 years, and color me crazy, but Id rather have comfort over durability.. Of course, Id rather have both, but I rank comfort over durability

Perfectly valid. Some consumers are happy with a mattress which they are aware will not hold up over the long run. You are aware that this is the case, and if you prefer ‘comfort over durability’ there is nothing wrong with that, the important thing is to be aware of possible shortcomings, which it certainly seems you are. I’d keep in mind is that at your BMI, 8-10 years durability may be an overestimate if the model you are selecting contains more than an inch or so of lower than 5lbs/cuft.

Right now, I am deciding between Tempurpedic Luxe Adapt Firm and Pro Adapt firm. Some say the original Tempurpedics of the 8 inch Classic and the 10 inch Deluxe are amazing and had very high quality materials. I bought the Deluxe (firm with some softness). I have found the current equivalents of the Originals. Classic 8 inch is equivalent to Pro Adapt Firm. Deluxe 10 inch is equivalent to LuxeAdapt Firm. Im leaning toward LuxeAdapt Firm because of comfort and softness, but I think ProAdapt Firm has more support for my back. Im a back sleeper.

Well made latex beds can last for quite a long time, but as you ‘simply don’t like latex’, we’ll scratch that out. As you are a back sleeper, The 13” Tempurpedic Luxe adapt firm has a 2.8” HD Tempur foam and 2” Tempur HD APR+ foam and 8.2” Base foam layer, while the Tempurpedic Pro Adapt firm has 1.2” HD foam , 2” HD Tempur foam and a 7.9” base foam layer (all of unknown density). As a back sleeper only your personal testing will best tell which one feels more comfortable to you but also I’d make sure that it provides adequate back support and that your spine is in neutral alignment , Your needs are unique to you, and you have done a fair amount of leg work in finding a good match. Let us know which is your final choice.

Basilio

Basilio,

Thanks for your thoughts.

Final selection will be partially based on my 105 pound wife who is 5 ft 2 in tall. She does 50% back and 50% side sleeping. Me? 5 ft 11 in and 225 pounds and 90% back and 10% side.

Possible combinations: (Me, Wife)
1-ProAdapt Firm/ Pro Adapt Medium or Soft for wife (split king)
2-Luxe Adapt Firm/ Luxe Adapt Soft (Split King)
3- Luxe Adapt Firm in California King (not split)-Firm enough for me, but with enough softness so that wife can still sleep on side.

I can't mix Luxe Adapt and Pro Adapt because Luxe is 13 inches and Pro Adapt is 12 inches. I want the height to match.

John

Basilio,

I found a brand new Tempurpedic Deluxe that has been in storage for 20 years on craigslist. The mattress has never been slept on. He is asking $500.

Questions:
1-Will age still break down the memory foam after 20 years?
2-Will the temperature that it was stored in matter? It was stored in a self storage unit in Palm Springs, CA. If it was not temperature controlled, I guess it got hot. If temperature controlled, I guess it was cooler like in a house.
3-How could I test mattress to see if it was worn out (due to age or hot temperatures)? I guess laying down on it....right?

John

Hi BillyIdol,

I found a brand new Tempurpedic Deluxe that has been in storage for 20 years on craigslist.
The mattress has never been slept on. He is asking $500.
1-Will age still break down the memory foam after 20 years?
2-Will the temperature that it was stored in matter? It was stored in a self storage unit in
Palm Springs, CA. If it was not temperature controlled, I guess it got hot. If temperature
controlled, I guess it was cooler like in a house.
3-How could I test mattress to see if it was worn out (due to age or hot temperatures)?
I guess laying down on it....right?

In this case, buying a second hand mattress from Craigslist, I would certainly keep the phrase Caveat Emptor- Let the buyer beware – in mind. You cannot really be sure this mattress was ‘never used;, or the conditions in which it was stored. Since its’ in a storage unit – and if there were other items ever stacked on it, temperature variations, humidity and other factors. If it is a clean unit (no pests dirt etc), and if it was stored in a temperature controlled environment, because you mentioned in your previous posts that durability is not high on your Personal Value Equation then it may be worthwhile for you if the claims on this are true and the price is low enough, you want to take a chance with this ‘unused’ mattress, even at that age.


I’d also keep in mind that you also are a high BMI and you would put more stress on the foams when you sleep than a normal BMI (You’d need at list 5lbs/cuft memory foam density) Foam aging and oxidation are definitely important factors even if the foam was not used at all. With age the foams become brittle and will breakdown faster than the same foam that is new. You may want to see Phoenix’s post on Foam Durability Factors in post #3 here ; In general terms though ... latex is the longest lasting of the foams, followed by memory foam followed by polyfoam (at least in the densities that are normally used). Of course, there is a lot of overlap and lower quality memory foam (less than 4 lbs. density) or some of the low density polyfoam used by most major manufacturers on the top of their mattresses also don't last long at all ... sometimes only months.

Also, I’d check if the mattress has any mold or mites internally, foams do break down with age – again depending on specific chemical composition of the materials in the mattress. As far as testing, the only way to see how it feels would be to try it out. Personally speaking, I avoid deals that seem ‘too good to be true’ as they are probably exactly that.

Basilio