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DIY Latex Build Somehow Still Too Unsupportive 23 Mar 2022 11:00 #1

  • datrumole
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well, getting a little frustrating, esp since latex prices are up at least $100 on king 3" making it harder to experiment

210lb, 6'

bottom --> top
3" 34ILD SOL dunlop, 3" 28ILD blended talalay x2 (9" total)

stuck now having just ordered a 9" cover from APM, i suppose we can add on top, but i'd like to nail it down within the 9" constraint

still having issues where my hips/butt sink in more than my upper body causing back pain

whats the play here? it seems like i need to 'stop' my butt from sinking past where my upper body can go, i just dont know how to do that with them being different weights

i do have access to a 24ILD blended talalay (however measured a 22.5ILD) that is currently doubled up on the wifes side

help!

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DIY Latex Build Somehow Still Too Unsupportive 24 Mar 2022 02:49 #2

  • Mattrebuild
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If you’re suffering from hammocking then it means you need to stiffen up the support layers below. For someone your weight usually you’d have a configuration like this.

3” talalay 19-22ILD - Comfort Layer
3” talalay 32ILD - Support Layer
3” talalay 36ILD - Support Layer
3” talalay 44ILD - Support Layer

So from here I would suggest getting at least a 36ILD talalay, then put that at the bottom and remove one of the 28ILD talalay layers (you may try that on your wife’s side) and see how it feels. For your weight you really should have at least a 12” mattress (4 layer) but try the 9” anyway to see if you can make it work for you.

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DIY Latex Build Somehow Still Too Unsupportive 24 Mar 2022 03:13 #3

  • buttercupbetty
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Are you recommending Natural Talalay because it's more supportive than Dunlop?

I love NT, and I am trying to help my husband get his side of the bed "just right". He is 175# and 6'4". Side/back combo sleeper. He frequently wakes up with low back pain. He is now thinking that a hybrid (Quantum Edge Elite 8" + 3" firm NT) is working for his alignment. The challenge is finding the balance of comfort/pressure relive while maintaining proper alignment?

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DIY Latex Build Somehow Still Too Unsupportive 24 Mar 2022 07:56 #4

  • datrumole
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If you’re suffering from hammocking then it means you need to stiffen up the support layers below. For someone your weight usually you’d have a configuration like this.

3” talalay 19-22ILD - Comfort Layer
3” talalay 32ILD - Support Layer
3” talalay 36ILD - Support Layer
3” talalay 44ILD - Support Layer

So from here I would suggest getting at least a 36ILD talalay, then put that at the bottom and remove one of the 28ILD talalay layers (you may try that on your wife’s side) and see how it feels. For your weight you really should have at least a 12” mattress (4 layer) but try the 9” anyway to see if you can make it work for you.


yeah, that was my fear

I could always try a 3" lux foam @50lb under the 9" latex if I needed that 4th layer?

if I did that, I wonder if I could get away with

34 dun, 32 tal, (play with the 22/28 tal here)

or do you think this is the play

36 tal, 34 dun, (play with the 22/28 tal here). fear of it being too stiff

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DIY Latex Build Somehow Still Too Unsupportive 24 Mar 2022 08:07 #5

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If you’re suffering from hammocking then it means you need to stiffen up the support layers below. For someone your weight usually you’d have a configuration like this.

3” talalay 19-22ILD - Comfort Layer
3” talalay 32ILD - Support Layer
3” talalay 36ILD - Support Layer
3” talalay 44ILD - Support Layer


I don't know why I just remembered this, at one point I had

34 SOL dun x2, 28 tal, and it was too stiff

which is why I'm perhaps questioning the 36 addition

however I did not have the 22ild the last time, so maybe that's how it helps?

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DIY Latex Build Somehow Still Too Unsupportive 24 Mar 2022 12:23 #6

  • Mattrebuild
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I don't know why I just remembered this, at one point I had

34 SOL dun x2, 28 tal, and it was too stiff

which is why I'm perhaps questioning the 36 addition

however I did not have the 22ild the last time, so maybe that's how it helps?


Not sure I follow. Didn't you mention above in your first post that 34D/28T/28T caused hammocking?

When you design a mattress you usually want it to be progressive (the harder you push the more support it provides). This support needs to be matched to your body weight and BMI or you can end up with issues as you've seen. The key is to always make sure you have enough support first then add the comfort part after to tweak the mattress for your liking. Most do the reverse and quikly find out it didn't work quite as well as they thought it might.

So if you got a layer of 36T you then have several options (see below) with the worst case being you need to get one more 32T layer later. Considering hammocking is a problem I would err on providing proper support first then make additional purchases/adjustments as needed. Finally you can add in a zoning layer as well if you can't get any of the standard combos to work.

Options
36T/34D/28T/22T
36T/34D/28T/28T
36T/34D/28T
36T/28T/28T
36T/28T/22T
36T/34D/22T

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DIY Latex Build Somehow Still Too Unsupportive 24 Mar 2022 12:35 #7

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Are you recommending Natural Talalay because it's more supportive than Dunlop?

I love NT, and I am trying to help my husband get his side of the bed "just right". He is 175# and 6'4". Side/back combo sleeper. He frequently wakes up with low back pain. He is now thinking that a hybrid (Quantum Edge Elite 8" + 3" firm NT) is working for his alignment. The challenge is finding the balance of comfort/pressure relive while maintaining proper alignment?


Dunlop and talalay have very different response curves which means that they react differently depending on how hard you push on them. Talalay is more contouring than dunlop which is very good for people that are side sleepers, have curvy shoulders/hips/bums/etc or may have certain medical conditions. Usually you can substitute talalay (in similar ILD) for dunlop but not vice versa. In the case of your husband you need to figure out why he's getting lower back pain from the mattress first in order to be able to correct it. Usually it's from 2 main causes, hammocking (lack of support) or hip rotation (lack of travel in the bum area). Once you narrow it down then you can begin to address the design that fixes your issue.

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DIY Latex Build Somehow Still Too Unsupportive 24 Mar 2022 12:58 #8

  • buttercupbetty
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For my husband, my guess is hammocking. His side of the bed had a body impression...

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DIY Latex Build Somehow Still Too Unsupportive 25 Mar 2022 06:28 #9

  • datrumole
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I don't know why I just remembered this, at one point I had

34 SOL dun x2, 28 tal, and it was too stiff

which is why I'm perhaps questioning the 36 addition

however I did not have the 22ild the last time, so maybe that's how it helps?


Not sure I follow. Didn't you mention above in your first post that 34D/28T/28T caused hammocking?

When you design a mattress you usually want it to be progressive (the harder you push the more support it provides). This support needs to be matched to your body weight and BMI or you can end up with issues as you've seen. The key is to always make sure you have enough support first then add the comfort part after to tweak the mattress for your liking. Most do the reverse and quikly find out it didn't work quite as well as they thought it might.

So if you got a layer of 36T you then have several options (see below) with the worst case being you need to get one more 32T layer later. Considering hammocking is a problem I would err on providing proper support first then make additional purchases/adjustments as needed. Finally you can add in a zoning layer as well if you can't get any of the standard combos to work.

Options
36T/34D/28T/22T
36T/34D/28T/28T
36T/34D/28T
36T/28T/28T
36T/28T/22T
36T/34D/22T


thank you, and apologies

my current configuration is 34d/28t/28t, and for some reason, literally been so long on this journey, that i just remembered that at one point i had a 34d/34d/28t and it was a touch too hard

so i feel like right now that a potentially stiffer than 34/34 with 36t/34d/28t leaves me with one real option 36t/34d/24t, and maybe thats the one, who knows

i suppose i can start at 36t, and always exchange it for 32t, and move to a xfirm/34d/32t/(24/28). do you think in that scenario, in lieu of the cost of latex, that i could use a 50lb foam as the xfirm layer is a feasible option?

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DIY Latex Build Somehow Still Too Unsupportive 25 Mar 2022 11:26 #10

  • Mattrebuild
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thank you, and apologies

my current configuration is 34d/28t/28t, and for some reason, literally been so long on this journey, that i just remembered that at one point i had a 34d/34d/28t and it was a touch too hard

so i feel like right now that a potentially stiffer than 34/34 with 36t/34d/28t leaves me with one real option 36t/34d/24t, and maybe thats the one, who knows

i suppose i can start at 36t, and always exchange it for 32t, and move to a xfirm/34d/32t/(24/28). do you think in that scenario, in lieu of the cost of latex, that i could use a 50lb foam as the xfirm layer is a feasible option?


I would caution against just using ILD to compare the layers. Talalay feels very different than dunlop (I spent quite a bit on SOL dunlop layers before realizing this). So you may find that the 36t/34d/28t actually feels softer (still firm yet conforming) than the 34d/34t/28t simply because it allows for more travel. Mysuggestion would be if the 36T alone still feels a tad bit hard (but is better than the 34d/34d/28t) then get the 32T to add to the stack instead of just exchanging it. Can't help you on the foam sustitution but it may make it harder to troubleshoot if it doesn't end up working well for you. Good bedding materials aren't cheap but then I always ask myself in the end what's a good night's sleep really worth?

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