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Searching for 24ILD Blended Talalay Latex OR It's Natural Equivalent 30 Sep 2021 12:50 #1

  • datrumole
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hey all

just looking to see if there are any recommended suppliers who can get 24ILD blended talalay latex, OR if this chart is accurate, 20-24ILD natural



210lb, 5'10", 85%side/15%back

(bottom to top, all 3", d = dunlop, t = blended talalay)

34d/34d/28t = back was happy, shoulders were not
34d/28t/20d = shoulders happy, back starting to feel a bit off (could be an adjustment period)

thinking then that 34d/28t/24t should be right where i want it

i've been hearing 19ILD blended talalay won't last very long, and it's right near the 20ILD dunlop which may not be supportive enough

so i'm now in search of 24ILD blended talalay OR if there is an equivalent of that in natural talalay. touch firmer than 19, softer than 28

thanks guys!
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Searching for 24ILD Blended Talalay Latex OR It's Natural Equivalent 02 Oct 2021 01:13 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi datrumole.

thinking then that 34d/28t/24t should be right where i want it

It certainly looks that way given your previous configurations and experience with them. Given your BMI a 24 ILD Talalay layer will also be more durable.

It looks like the Talalay latex layering you are considering is from ultimate sleep who are sourcing it from Talalay Global. The “Original” is the Talatech Classic which is the blended version. They do have 2” and 3” blended Talalay in 24 ILD. Many of our Trusted members also source their latex from Talalay Global To name just a few: Arizona Premium, SleepEZ, Escondido Mattress, Flexus Comfort, Flo Beds etc.

i've been hearing 19ILD blended talalay won't last very long, and it's right near the 20ILD dunlop which may not be supportive enough

It's important to realize that manufacturers list an ILD or even a range as a convenience to make approximate comparisons. There is no such thing as a "single number ILD" for any Talalay core (and even more so with Dunlop) that will be accurate. In practical terms, Talalay is much more consistent even though it is also "averaged" (in the case of blended Talalay).

With Dunlop even if the ILD is measured and "averaged" across the layer ... it will vary by individual layer and will also vary depending on whether you have the bottom half or the top half of an original Dunlop core that produced the rating. The top 3" of a molded 6" Dunlop core will generally be softer than the bottom 3". It can also vary depending on which side of a layer you are measuring.

Other variables include the percentage compression that ILD is tested at (the two most common are 25% and 40% which makes a significant difference) and on the thickness of the core that is being tested (thicker cores will produce higher ILD results at the same percentage compression). For example, you can see some of the results of ILD @ 40% compression testing for Dunlop from Eco Latex which produces higher numbers.

As far as durability goes, Latex is certainly a very durable material but with a higher BMI of 30.1 kg/m2, softer and less dense latex will not last as long as the same ILD for normal BMIs. Softness itself is a durability factor and softer materials (which are much more common with blended Talalay) will be less durable than firmer materials of the same type.

Also, in the lower ILD's and in an apples to apples (same ILD) comparison ... blended Talalay will be more durable than all-natural Talalay in the lower ILD's (see post #2 here ). In the lower ILD's the natural elasticity of the talalay and its thinner cell walls along with the greater inconsistency of natural latex works against it and it will be less durable than a blend. This will start to even out as the ILD's get higher.

With Dunlop, it's the other way around because of its higher density, greater firmness in most cases, and the properties of natural latex itself (see post #2 here for a comparison between natural latex and synthetic latex). While overall natural latex has more desirable qualities than SBR (synthetic) latex ... the synthetic does have some advantages over natural in some areas that can add to its properties so it's not quite as black and white as "natural is better".

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Searching for 24ILD Blended Talalay Latex OR It's Natural Equivalent 02 Oct 2021 09:27 #3

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Hi datrumole.

thinking then that 34d/28t/24t should be right where i want it

It certainly looks that way given your previous configurations and experience with them. Given your BMI a 24 ILD Talalay layer will also be more durable.

It looks like the Talalay latex layering you are considering is from ultimate sleep who are sourcing it from Talalay Global. The “Original” is the Talatech Classic which is the blended version. They do have 2” and 3” blended Talalay in 24 ILD. Many of our Trusted members also source their latex from Talalay Global To name just a few: Arizona Premium, SleepEZ, Escondido Mattress, Flexus Comfort, Flo Beds etc.

i've been hearing 19ILD blended talalay won't last very long, and it's right near the 20ILD dunlop which may not be supportive enough

It's important to realize that manufacturers list an ILD or even a range as a convenience to make approximate comparisons. There is no such thing as a "single number ILD" for any Talalay core (and even more so with Dunlop) that will be accurate. In practical terms, Talalay is much more consistent even though it is also "averaged" (in the case of blended Talalay).

With Dunlop even if the ILD is measured and "averaged" across the layer ... it will vary by individual layer and will also vary depending on whether you have the bottom half or the top half of an original Dunlop core that produced the rating. The top 3" of a molded 6" Dunlop core will generally be softer than the bottom 3". It can also vary depending on which side of a layer you are measuring.

Other variables include the percentage compression that ILD is tested at (the two most common are 25% and 40% which makes a significant difference) and on the thickness of the core that is being tested (thicker cores will produce higher ILD results at the same percentage compression). For example, you can see some of the results of ILD @ 40% compression testing for Dunlop from Eco Latex which produces higher numbers.

As far as durability goes, Latex is certainly a very durable material but with a higher BMI of 30.1 kg/m2, softer and less dense latex will not last as long as the same ILD for normal BMIs. Softness itself is a durability factor and softer materials (which are much more common with blended Talalay) will be less durable than firmer materials of the same type.

Also, in the lower ILD's and in an apples to apples (same ILD) comparison ... blended Talalay will be more durable than all-natural Talalay in the lower ILD's (see post #2 here ). In the lower ILD's the natural elasticity of the talalay and its thinner cell walls along with the greater inconsistency of natural latex works against it and it will be less durable than a blend. This will start to even out as the ILD's get higher.

With Dunlop, it's the other way around because of its higher density, greater firmness in most cases, and the properties of natural latex itself (see post #2 here for a comparison between natural latex and synthetic latex). While overall natural latex has more desirable qualities than SBR (synthetic) latex ... the synthetic does have some advantages over natural in some areas that can add to its properties so it's not quite as black and white as "natural is better".

Phoenix


amazingly detailed response, thanks phoenix!

i was able to also track down ultimate sleep as well, i spoke to them yesterday, and it looks like they no longer carry from Talalay Global, but LatexCo. Appears TG requires a much larger quantity ordered, full pallets, vs drop shipping from LatexCo. LatexCo 'original' appears to be a 50/50 blend, not sure how that correlates to the TG blended, or if LatexCo is even a reputable manufacturer, but no one carries 24ILD that i was able to find from TG

as it pertains to the durability, thanks so much for the detailed response. ken from APM was the one who mentioned the shortened lifespan of the 19ILD at my weight, which is what lead me down this search for the slightly higher 24ILD

my only other option it appears is to attempt the 'plush' (20-24ILD) from APM which is the natural blend, but again, running the risk of too soft, and less durability

so pending LatexCo is a reputable manufacturer, i will place the order from ultimate sleep

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Searching for 24ILD Blended Talalay Latex OR It's Natural Equivalent 02 Oct 2021 13:06 #4

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hey all

just looking to see if there are any recommended suppliers who can get 24ILD blended talalay latex, OR if this chart is accurate, 20-24ILD natural



210lb, 5'10", 85%side/15%back

(bottom to top, all 3", d = dunlop, t = blended talalay)

34d/34d/28t = back was happy, shoulders were not
34d/28t/20d = shoulders happy, back starting to feel a bit off (could be an adjustment period)

thinking then that 34d/28t/24t should be right where i want it

i've been hearing 19ILD blended talalay won't last very long, and it's right near the 20ILD dunlop which may not be supportive enough

so i'm now in search of 24ILD blended talalay OR if there is an equivalent of that in natural talalay. touch firmer than 19, softer than 28

thanks guys!



have you considered trying 34D/28T/28T ? I am 6'1" 185lbs and this was a bit firm for me. It's possible it might work at your BMI.

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Searching for 24ILD Blended Talalay Latex OR It's Natural Equivalent 04 Oct 2021 16:45 #5

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have you considered trying 34D/28T/28T ? I am 6'1" 185lbs and this was a bit firm for me. It's possible it might work at your BMI.


i tried folding the 28 in half to see, and it's still a touch firmer than i was hoping for

trying to track down 24ILD, but it appears all i've been able to find is 22ILD from LatexCo, which at this point, might have to be it unless there are other options

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Searching for 24ILD Blended Talalay Latex OR It's Natural Equivalent 04 Oct 2021 21:18 #6

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Hi datrumole.

It certainly looks that way given your previous configurations and experience with them. Given your BMI a 24 ILD Talalay layer will also be more durable.

It looks like the Talalay latex layering you are considering is from ultimate sleep who are sourcing it from Talalay Global. The “Original” is the Talatech Classic which is the blended version. They do have 2” and 3” blended Talalay in 24 ILD. Many of our Trusted members also source their latex from Talalay Global To name just a few: Arizona Premium, SleepEZ, Escondido Mattress, Flexus Comfort, Flo Beds etc.

Phoenix


a little frustrating to find out from Ken from APM that LatexCo doesnt supply a 24ILD but a 22ILD. if my understanding is accurate, the 24ILD should be within a +-2ILD tolerance, so the 24 would be 22-26ILD vs the 22 at 20-24ILD

seems either ultimatesleep didnt update their website after switching suppliers, or simply hoping no one would notice. so feeling a little annoyed at this point

i may have to reach out to the trusted members you mentioned to see if a 24ILD is offered unless the 22ILD from LatexCo is just as comparable. mainly looking for both the durability of what the 24 would have had, plus the extra bit of firmness above the 20 which i fear the 22 is too close too

am i overthinking this?

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Searching for 24ILD Blended Talalay Latex OR It's Natural Equivalent 04 Oct 2021 23:11 #7

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Hi datrumole.

. LatexCo 'original' appears to be a 50/50 blend, not sure how that correlates to the TG blended, or if LatexCo is even a reputable manufacturer, but no one carries 24ILD that i was able to find from TG

Latexco was founded in 1953 and has some mass and history in the mattress industry with its multiple facilities on the east and west coast and also Latexco NV, headquartered in Tielt, Belgium. As you most likely know they are producing mattresses, toppers and pillows both in latex and flexible polyurethane foams for the bedding industry. Latexco US recently received GOLS certification for NR natural latex mattress cores, toppers and pillows. They are manufacturing Dunlop in Georgia, they bring the raw latex from Tielt and Sri Lanka and the Talalay from Radium.

You are correct that Latexco’s Pulse Natural rubber is 50/50 blend but this is a different production process called SonoCore technology which is based on dielectric heating rather than steam. Here is a screenshot of the process from their site. I am not sure how Pulse ILD compares with the Talalay from Radium, but I’ll make a note to reach out to them to get more input. This said I do not see any information about Pulse (which is the 50/50 blend you indicated) on the ultimate sleep site. Also, they seem to carry Talalay (not Pulse), which naturally raises some questions so I’d proceed with some caution and give them another call to clarify this.

You may also want to ask Ken about the difference between Pulse and Talalay in terms of ILD. He is one of our Mattress Experts and has a great deal of experience with differences between types of latex.
Phoenix
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Searching for 24ILD Blended Talalay Latex OR It's Natural Equivalent 05 Oct 2021 11:38 #8

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Hi datrumole.

. LatexCo 'original' appears to be a 50/50 blend, not sure how that correlates to the TG blended, or if LatexCo is even a reputable manufacturer, but no one carries 24ILD that i was able to find from TG

Latexco was founded in 1953 and has some mass and history in the mattress industry with its multiple facilities on the east and west coast and also Latexco NV, headquartered in Tielt, Belgium. As you most likely know they are producing mattresses, toppers and pillows both in latex and flexible polyurethane foams for the bedding industry. Latexco US recently received GOLS certification for NR natural latex mattress cores, toppers and pillows. They are manufacturing Dunlop in Georgia, they bring the raw latex from Tielt and Sri Lanka and the Talalay from Radium.

You are correct that Latexco’s Pulse Natural rubber is 50/50 blend but this is a different production process called SonoCore technology which is based on dielectric heating rather than steam. Here is a screenshot of the process from their site. I am not sure how Pulse ILD compares with the Talalay from Radium, but I’ll make a note to reach out to them to get more input.

This said I do not see any information about Pulse (which is the 50/50 blend you indicated) on the ultimate sleep site. Also, they seem to carry Talalay (not Pulse), which naturally raises some questions so I’d proceed with some caution and give them another call to clarify this.

You may also want to ask Ken about the difference between Pulse and Talalay in terms of ILD. He is one of our Mattress Experts and has a great deal of experience with differences between types of latex.
Phoenix


thanks phoenix, i contacted ultimate sleep and they are still in the manufacturing change and haven't yet updated their materials on their website

i've tried to get a hold of Ken, i'm sure he is a busy man, and has done a good job of replying, but can be short and sometimes not as elaborate as i'd had hoped

i'll see what i can do to get him on the phone, honestly at this point, if he can get the same product, i'd rather give the business to him

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Searching for 24ILD Blended Talalay Latex OR It's Natural Equivalent 07 Oct 2021 07:34 #9

  • Mattrebuild
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I'm interested in what you find out because it's a big gap between 19ILD and 28ILD so it would be nice to source the 24ILD to allow more flexibility when designing DIY setups.

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Searching for 24ILD Blended Talalay Latex OR It's Natural Equivalent 07 Oct 2021 09:52 #10

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I'm interested in what you find out because it's a big gap between 19ILD and 28ILD so it would be nice to source the 24ILD to allow more flexibility when designing DIY setups.


called just about everyone on the vendor list, and Henry from Flexus is top tier! he's going to add a blended 24ILD to his next order

he's going to confirm with his sales rep that Talalay Global is still making it/availability, but sometime mid-end of next week he's putting in his next order

i'll follow up here if there are any issues he reports, fingers crossed

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