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help, after resear and testing I hit a road block 18 Jun 2021 14:10 #1

  • Leguizamon
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Hello,

I'm new to the site after luckily stumbling upon it while looking for mattresses information. I've spent the past week reading as much as I can. What an amazing wealth of knowledge! Thank you to all that contribute to this site! I have learnt a lot, although not quite enough, so I would continue reading and learning, but giving the nature of my specific situation, I thought that it could be more hopefully getting some answers from the experts members of this forum.

My previous experience with coil mattresses with low quality components and with memory foam mattresses together with what I’ve learnt so far, led me to explore all latex mattresses. And since getting the right PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) takes some time and some trial and error, I feel that maybe going the DIY rout will not only be the best immediate solution but also the best for long term satisfaction.

For some background information, I’m 52, 5’ 9”, 182 lbs, average built, shoulders somewhat wither then hips, mostly side sleeper, occasionally on my stomach, almost never on my back.

From 2016 to 2020 I slept on a Zinus 10” mattress, componentry top-bottom, 2” Viscoflex, 1”memory foam, 2” high density foam, 5” high density base support foam. It was not the best sleep ever, but not a bad one either, especially in comparison to my previous coil mattress (can’t remember brand/model, but it was a high end model for which we paid a lot of money) in which I experience the hammock effect in any sleep position for the longest time.

During the first 3 years the Zinus mattress did not feel as hot as I thought it would (based on what I had read about memory foam mattresses) and it was comfortable, I can’t say for sure if it provided proper spinal alignment, but I did not have any pains or big discomfort. Eventually by the 4th year of usage, I started to sink in to the mattress more than I would like to. Coincidentally, by then I needed to change my king size bed for a queen. Not having the time to research about mattresses, I thought that the safest bet would be to buy the same Zinus mattress model which would at least serve me well for 3 or 4 years, which it was not that bad for the price. Unfortunately they did not have that mattress on a queen size.

I started looking at other Zinus’s models, but nothing seemed to be a good option, so I looked for other brands and I found a mattress that seemed to have reviews that were similar to the ones written for my Zinus mattress. So I took the risk and I purchase a Novilla Bliss 10” Gel Memory, componentry top-bottom, 2” gel-infused memory foam, 2” air flow comfort foam, 3” air circulation foam, 3” supportive high density memory foam. Unfortunately, in a matter of month the Novilla started to sag, and it was very uncomfortable to sleep on it, still not having the time to get knowledge to make an informed mattress purchase, I decided to put a band aid on it and use a 3” Tempurpedic topper that I have in the guestroom, this make things slighter better, but I was still sinking into the mattress and the topper felt hot.

Because it felt like I was thinking through the topper, to test the topper by itself, one night I slept on the topper placed on the floor, which confirmed that I was indeed thinking through the topper.
So then I thought, OK the floor is too hard and the top layers of the mattress are too soft, how about if I flip the mattress and put the topper on top? That way I would have the topper as my comfort layer and the high density foam right under it as my support layer. So I set it up and since the topper didn’t seem to offer sufficient cushioning and it was hot, I also added a Wamsutta Dream Zone mattress pad on top.

While this set up is definitely and improvement, it is also far from the ideal mattress for my PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). It still hot to sleep on it, I toss and turn frequently during the night, and although I don’t have any specific aches, I woke up unrested and with a general muscles discomfort/pain in my upper body.

Since I did not want to purchase a DIY latex mattress solely based on information learnt on the forum, to test how latex feels, I visited City Mattress to take a look at the PranaSleep models, I did not lay on any of them for too long because I saw samples of the componentry and even on the most expensive models like the OM, the quilted top is not made with latex, so I’m concern about the durability of that component.

Then I found Mattress Xperts that sells Pure Talalay Bliss, and based on my research I thought that the Beautiful could be too soft for me and hammock, and the Pamper would be too hard, so I went straight to try the Nutrition and the Nature, I laid for 15 minutes on each of them, one on my right side and the other one on my left side, and unfortunately to my surprise and disappointment both of them caused shoulder pain like I’ve never experienced before in any mattress. I roam around the store for a while hopping that the shoulder pain would go away so I could try the Beautiful or something else, but after ½ an hour the pain and discomfort in my shoulder and neck was still there, so I laid on the Beautiful in my back for 5 minutes, and although I wouldn’t say it hammocks, I definitely felt my butt sinking.

I would appreciated if anyone can let me know if there are other places to go to try a latex mattress near me, my zip code is 33432.

Based on research, reviews and comments regarding the Pure Talalay Bliss Beautiful, Nature and Nutrition, I thought I was on the right track and I was hopeful that any of this mattresses would be a match for my PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences), so then I could purchase “similar” components to DIY a mattress that would feel “similar” to the one in the store. But after my experience at the mattress store I’m very frustrated and confuse.

The sales associate gave me the specs for each mattress, but I think they may be for older models, this is based on the fact that the paper says Pure Latex Bliss instead of Pure Talalay Bliss and also instead of ActiveFusion Fast Natural Talalay for the confort layer it just says Natural Talalay Latex. As an example for the Pamper it says:

PBL- Pamper
450-480 Gram Weight Fabric
LatexBliss Milliken Paladin Fire Resistant Barrier
1" Natural Talalay Latex 19 ILD
6" Natural Talalay Latex Support Core 40 ILD
1” Support Stabilization Base Extra Firm Talalay Latex
8” Mattress Height

In contrast here if what I found on this forum www.themattressunderground.com/talk-to-the-experts/sleep-ez/22711-latex-layering-strategy

It would be great if a MUF expert can post the current specs for all the Pure Talalay Bliss models, so it is available for the lucky ones that find that any of this mattresses matches their PPP and would like to go the DIY rout.

On a site note, I emailed Pure Talalay Bliss inquiring about the specs for each models, and they reply "Thank you for contacting us. We do not provide the ILD’s of the mattresses listed below, but you can go to the Pure Talalay Bliss products page and click on each mattress to see what the layers are in each mattress without the ILD."

Back to my mattress hunt, I would also consider a hybrid rather than an all latex mattress, but based on all that I have read so far, I’m not sure if one vs the other will have any significant impact in achieving a match for my PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). It seems that it is all about getting the “right” layers combination regardless of whether the support layer is made out of coils or latex. If my assumption correct?

Assuming that my assumption is right, I would rather go with an all latex mattress based on the fact that it would be easier to maneuver the mattress components by myself. Handling the coil layer of a queen size matters will be a hustle. However, it's easier to deal with split latex layers that are manageable in both weight and size.

I’m trying to stay positive and hopeful that I can find the right components combination that matches my PPP, but so far this seems to be one of those tricky ones in which a mattress either feels too soft or too hard for me. Given that, should I be considering trying to train myself to sleep on my back? It seems to be the best position to sleep in, except that I snore, so I don’t know if sleeping on my back could make this worse. I tried last night using pillows by my side to elevate my arms so that I would let me shoulders and my neck rest (I was still feeling discomfort from the mattresses testing yesterday morning) , I slept through the night and my shoulders were fine this morning, but my upper back muscles hurt a lot. But I’m thinking that maybe a different mattress for back sleepers could be the answer to my dilemma. Although with the luck I've had so far, finding a mattress for back sleepers that matches my PPP may turn out difficult as well.

Thank you in advance for any help and advice.

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Last edit: by Leguizamon.

help, after resear and testing I hit a road block 23 Jun 2021 09:41 #2

  • Sensei
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Hey Leguizamon,

Welcome to The Mattress Underground :) ! Thanks for your question.

I'm new to the site after luckily stumbling upon it while looking for mattresses information. I've spent the past week reading as much as I can. What an amazing wealth of knowledge! Thank you to all that contribute to this site! I have learnt a lot, although not quite enough, so I would continue reading and learning, but giving the nature of my specific situation, I thought that it could be more hopefully getting some answers from the experts members of this forum.


Thanks for your praise and kind words on the site; they are much appreciated :) . Our fearless leader Phoenix has spent many a "sleepless" night researching the mattress industry, analyzing data points, and discovering the multi-tiered complexities of the mattress purchase cycle, all on behalf of advocating best practices and transparency for the consumer. You have crafted a thoughtful, well-written assessment of your position in the purchase cycle; good job on your research thus far. For brevity/ clarity, we'll skip the background of sleep history and address your questions.

I would appreciated if anyone can let me know if there are other places to go to try a latex mattress near me, my zip code is 33432.


As part of our policy, TMU moderators do not comment on or “recommend” mattresses or manufacturers outside of our Trusted Member Program , one which was designed to connect many high quality smaller manufacturers and retailers to consumers based on the strict vetting, quality, and transparency requirements of TMU. That said, I did a quick search on latex mattresses using your zip code, and there are quite a few showrooms carrying latex mattress models in your area. This older Phoenix post cites several that I found as well. Perhaps consumers may have some ideas and will share their thoughts with you too.

Based on research, reviews and comments regarding the Pure Talalay Bliss Beautiful, Nature and Nutrition, I thought I was on the right track and I was hopeful that any of this mattresses would be a match for my PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences), so then I could purchase “similar” components to DIY a mattress that would feel “similar” to the one in the store. But after my experience at the mattress store I’m very frustrated and confuse.


If you're considering a DIY build based on a Pure Talalay Bliss model, you can reach out to any of these quality TMU trusted members specializing in DIY mattress components for counsel. Both PLB/ PTB brands are hot topics in the DIY world (as you have seen from your forum site search work); our trusted members are quite familiar with their models and be happy to help you construct a "similar" feel to what you are looking for:


The sales associate gave me the specs for each mattress, but I think they may be for older models, this is based on the fact that the paper says Pure Latex Bliss instead of Pure Talalay Bliss and also instead of ActiveFusion Fast Natural Talalay for the confort layer it just says Natural Talalay Latex. As an example for the Pamper it says:

PBL- Pamper
450-480 Gram Weight Fabric
LatexBliss Milliken Paladin Fire Resistant Barrier
1" Natural Talalay Latex 19 ILD
6" Natural Talalay Latex Support Core 40 ILD
1” Support Stabilization Base Extra Firm Talalay Latex
8” Mattress Height

In contrast here if what I found on this forum www.themattressunderground.com/talk-to-the-experts/sleep-ez/22711-latex-layering-strategy


The Pure Latex Bliss brand has gone through several changes over its lifetime. Following a successful program launch of an all-Talalay latex model, the name was changed to Pure Talalay Bliss to market the luxury aspect of an all Talalay latex mattress. Aside from the program's growth and development over the past 12 or so years, a mattress models' components will invariably update from time to time in response to supply chain changes and shifts in consumer preferences, so approximating the "feel" of a particular showroom model can be trickier than it would seem. You may find this Phoenix post regarding Pure Talalay Bliss mattress DIYs an interesting read.

It would be great if a MUF expert can post the current specs for all the Pure Talalay Bliss models, so it is available for the lucky ones that find that any of this mattresses matches their PPP and would like to go the DIY rout. On a site note, I emailed Pure Talalay Bliss inquiring about the specs for each models, and they reply "Thank you for contacting us. We do not provide the ILD’s of the mattresses listed below, but you can go to the Pure Talalay Bliss products page and click on each mattress to see what the layers are in each mattress without the ILD."


PTB is likely aware of the DIY popularity surrounding their mattresses and consider the ILDs of the components proprietary information. There have been spec details posted on the forum from time to time; the post you linked above contained good feedback from expert trusted member Sleep EZ . You may want to ask them about their thoughts on some of your construction questions.

Back to my mattress hunt, I would also consider a hybrid rather than an all latex mattress, but based on all that I have read so far, I’m not sure if one vs the other will have any significant impact in achieving a match for my PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences). It seems that it is all about getting the “right” layers combination regardless of whether the support layer is made out of coils or latex. If my assumption correct?


The answer is yes and no, Leguizamon. You are definitely headed in the right direction with your thought process; however, these two support systems deliver different response "feels" based on the nature of their construction. A Talalay latex comfort layer paired with a pocket coil support unit would have a livelier response feel than an all- latex mattress. The design of individually encased pocket coils permits each one to interact with the user as they move across the mattress's surface, a good fit for those who toss and turn to move freely during sleep. As someone who sleeps warm on memory foam, you should find the feel of Talalay and pocket coils much more cooling, but also with a bit more response than you are used to. An all-latex mattress provides a most luxurious feel in terms of comfort and support, and can be a little pricier of the two models. If you choose an all Talalay construction, it would sleep cooler than a Talalay + Dunlop latex core; however, an all Talalay mattress is quite expensive. Both a latex hybrid and all-latex mattress are good for side sleeping positions. The choice of either build comes down to your personal preferences.

Assuming that my assumption is right, I would rather go with an all latex mattress based on the fact that it would be easier to maneuver the mattress components by myself. Handling the coil layer of a queen size matters will be a hustle. However, it's easier to deal with split latex layers that are manageable in both weight and size.


Your reasoning is sound and it seems that you have a plan in mind. When researching manufacturers for DIY component purchases, look for a reputable, experienced source who will guide you through the layering/ assembly process, as well as offers advice based on your needs. Also, be sure you have a clear understanding of their exchange and return policies as DIY projects often take a number of tweaks before an optimal performance design is achieved.

I’m trying to stay positive and hopeful that I can find the right components combination that matches my PPP, but so far this seems to be one of those tricky ones in which a mattress either feels too soft or too hard for me. Given that, should I be considering trying to train myself to sleep on my back? It seems to be the best position to sleep in, except that I snore, so I don’t know if sleeping on my back could make this worse.


For varying reasons, people will often opt to change sleeping positions, noting that their current preferred one is causing discomfort in some way (often a stomach sleeper's dilemma). Back sleeping on the right mattress with an appropriate pillow can be a quite restful position, once you've tried it several times. Back sleepers have a flatter profile/ less "gaps" to fill in the comfort layer for pressure relieve, mainly the small of the back area. Generally speaking, a 2" comfort layer should be a good starting point, with deciding your preferences for a softer or firmer feel from there.

I tried last night using pillows by my side to elevate my arms so that I would let me shoulders and my neck rest (I was still feeling discomfort from the mattresses testing yesterday morning) , I slept through the night and my shoulders were fine this morning, but my upper back muscles hurt a lot. But I’m thinking that maybe a different mattress for back sleepers could be the answer to my dilemma. Although with the luck I've had so far, finding a mattress for back sleepers that matches my PPP may turn out difficult as well.


Sounds as though the pillow experiment engaged some muscle groups that found a new position stressful. The new issue could resolve itself over time if you feel that the benefits of your neck and shoulders discomfort improving at the expense of your new upper back muscles' soreness with the pillow use is worth continuing. The other support options you could explore are zoned support cores or firmer support systems designed for back sleepers. Hope this helps as a starting point and looking forward to hearing how your DIY research goes ;) .

Sensei
Sensei(@ TMU Team)
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help, after resear and testing I hit a road block 25 Jun 2021 07:48 #3

  • Leguizamon
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Hello Sensei,

Thank you so much for the response. As usual very informative and helpfull.

I will reach out to some of the quality TMU trusted members specializing in DIY mattress components for counsel.

Thanks Again

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