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Hopeful DIY guy 03 Sep 2020 10:25 #1

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I've been really appreciative of reading through this forum and all the knowledge I've gained, although a bit overwhelmed like most who start down this journey seem to be. I've read through the tutorial, personal value equation, and the temperature considerations (among many, many other threads). My hope is to post what I think may be right for me and solicit some expert opinions. First the sleepers, then the specs.

Sleeper 1 (me): 37m, 6'1", 175lbs, combo side and back - I prefer to be on my sides but do wake up on my back about 50% of the time, never stomach; Broad shoulders; hot sleeper; prefer plush/soft top (slept on a Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme (the old version) for 8 years and loved the softer feel).; currently on a crappy spring mattress (a low tier simmons) with a thick memory foam topper (something basic from amazon) that makes it barely bearable; i frequently wake up with a sore shoulder, and can get low back pain on the occasion I sleep longer than 7 hours or so.
Sleeper 2 (gf): 28f, 5'7", 145lbs, combo side and back; wider hips, also sleeps very hot; not as much as a princess as I am about the comfort but she does like a medium to medium-soft feel, no body pains with sleep.

I'd really like to go DIY for the cost savings, but I'm ok spending for quality materials. We tested out Tuft and Needle's line recently. The Mint was meh, too firm for both us. The hybrid got closer but still not enough hug or give for side sleeping on broad shoulders. If I'm spending upwards of $1600-1700 for what I now know are heavily marketed and under quality beds, I would be thrilled to build something myself for a comparable price point.

PPP:
Slow or fast response materials: to be honest I'm not sure, but it doesn't immediately matter much to me
Sleeping "on" vs "in" the mattress: "IN" the mattress
Motion isolation: This is important for us; doesn't have to be a dead stop on motion but we both adjust throughout the night
The ease of movement: the bounce for sex is nice, but would be willing to sacrifice some of that if motion and comfort are optimized; otherwise ease of movement doesn't matter for us
Edge support: with a King, hopefully it wont matter much, not super high on the priority list
"Roll together:" we both sleep hot so hopefully we are not rolling togeher
Overall "feel": best feel I've enjoyed is the Tempur Cloud Supreme (or even Luxe), but I'm intrigued by latex if it can sleep a little cooler or be more durable, definitely like the PLUSH feel
Durability of materials in the mattress: if paying close to $2000 means better durability combined with great comfort, I'm here for it
Durability of construction (such as one or two sided): I'm open to either
Quality and performance of materials and construction: not sure how to answer this, really want to optimize comfort and heat
Ability to open the mattress and exchange layers or make changes after purchase: with DIY, this would be ideal
Warranty and warranty exclusions (which are often more important then the warranty itself): would be nice
Budget limitations and range: $2000 ceiling, though would slightly break it if we were close on the rest
Mattress only or foundation included (and the type): probably mattress only, my girlfriend is much more particular about picking a frame/foundation that's aesthetically pleasing to her
Natural materials vs synthetic: not a big sticking point
The type of cover and quilting (if any) you prefer: I've read the stretched knit connects you most to the comfort layer?

I did use SleepEZ's calculator to come up with basic layered considerations, which were (top down):
Soft (Natural Talalay, 3", 19-22 ILD) with stretch cotton cover
Medium (Dunlop, 3", 30-32 ILD)
Firm (Dunlop, 3", 37-40 ILD)
Cotton/wool cover for bottom 6"
Total Price: $1464
edit: Talked to Richard at Sleep EZ (super helpful guy!), and he said they could custom the Soft Talalay to a lower ILD, but that would decrease it's life (3-5 years). If that improves the plush feel and it's the only thing I'll replace over the next 5 years, it may be worth it?

I know I have mentioned the Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme (memory foam), and I've seen Phoenix mention it might be best to stick with a material you know. That makes me consider a 4" Memory Foam topper:
PostureSense foam, 4.5lb density, 4" thickness, I don't see an ILD anywhere?
www.foamorder.com/toppers/foam-mattress-topper.html

If the latex layers last a long time and replacing a plush topper every 4 or 5 years gets me to the plush but supported feel, I'd be ok with that.

For what it's worth, I live in Durham, NC (close to Raleigh, NC), zip 27707

I've looked around at different sites as well, but was hoping for some initial feedback before putting together a ton of configurations if I seem way off track based on my preferences. Thanks so much to anyone who can help guide!

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Hopeful DIY guy 04 Sep 2020 14:54 #2

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Hey cgreen1,

Welcome to the Mattress Underground :) ! Thanks for your question.

I've been really appreciative of reading through this forum and all the knowledge I've gained, although a bit overwhelmed like most who start down this journey seem to be. I've read through the tutorial, personal value equation, and the temperature considerations (among many, many other threads). My hope is to post what I think may be right for me and solicit some expert opinions.

Thanks so much cgreen1 for your kind words on the site and congrats on your new mattress shopping journey! Before we get started, just want to give you a big TMU Shout-out for both the thoughtful, thorough research you have done and the helpful details you have provided; excellent work :) . DIY is a hot topic on the forum; you will find many TMU trusted members who can help you here, as well as many consumers who'd be happy to share their experiences with you. Hope you find the conversations helpful for your research.

Without quoting all of the details of your research, you've provided several points of interest here: your positive experience with the Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme and preference for memory foam, ie: "I know I have mentioned the Tempurpedic Cloud Supreme (memory foam), and I've seen Phoenix mention it might be best to stick with a material you know." Indeed, if you prefer the feel of sleeping "in" as opposed to "on" a mattress, as well as a Tempur-type design, you may want to focus your research efforts in the direction of something you know and like its performance. You would want to make sure that the component foams in any mattress that you are considering are of the best quality (from a durability standpoint) and have been certified by Certipur or Oeko-tex (or a similar organization) for safeguarding against harmful substances. Finally, please consider one of our trusted member manufacturers/ retailers , there are quite a few who could be of help with your project (BTW, thanks @Richard/ Sleep EZ for your advice and thoughts for cgreen1's DIY).

Looking forward to your thoughts and hearing more as things progress ;) .

Thanks,
Sensei
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Hopeful DIY guy 04 Sep 2020 21:39 #3

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Thanks so much for your reply, Sensei! From my chats with @Richard/ at SleepEZ, he seemed to think it would possible to recreate the plush feeling of something like a Cloud Supreme with a 3” Talalay of softer ILD that is individually wrapped with a stretch cotton ticking (separate from the support and transition layers). The lean towards latex, though a somewhat unknown to my body, is the increased breathability and temperature control, as well as durability. A major complaint of the memory foam was heat retention.

I know from research that materials of bedding, ticking, and microclimate considerations also play a roll in temperature regulation as well.

I’m not sure if it can be answered, but I was hoping to recreate a plush feel with decent motion control that was a bit more temperature neutral - and if a natural Talalay latex of 3” might fit that bill vs a memory foam topper?

I have fairly broad shoulders at 6’1” and 175lbs, so I need somewhere for those suckers to go when lying on my side. Hence the consideration for a 4” memory foam.

I appreciate your emphasis on material quality, and I most defiantly appreciate the certified vendors on here. This whole experiment was overwhelming until I found this site with expert advice and trusted vendors. I find the cost of buying high quality materials and the satisfaction of a DIY is worth the price compared to the exorbitant costs of highly marketed beds with lesser (or unknown) quality.

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Hopeful DIY guy 06 Sep 2020 14:08 #4

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Hey cgreen1,

Thanks for your response :) .

Thanks so much for your reply, Sensei! From my chats with @Richard/ at SleepEZ, he seemed to think it would possible to recreate the plush feeling of something like a Cloud Supreme with a 3” Talalay of softer ILD that is individually wrapped with a stretch cotton ticking (separate from the support and transition layers). The lean towards latex, though a somewhat unknown to my body, is the increased breathability and temperature control, as well as durability. A major complaint of the memory foam was heat retention.

Happy to hear you've received solid counseling from @Richard/ expert trusted member Sleep EZ , he has a deep understanding of component interaction and product design from a consumer point of view. And yes, memory foam is known for its heat retention properties. To quote from Phoenix's article, "Memory Foam- Pros and Cons" : "The greater breathability of other foams which have a more "open" cell structure (like latex or other polyfoams) tend to lessen the heat issues for those who like to sleep more "in" a mattress using softer "non memory" foams. Natural fibers breathe best of all and tend to be cooler than any foam ... especially memory foam."

I’m not sure if it can be answered, but I was hoping to recreate a plush feel with decent motion control that was a bit more temperature neutral - and if a natural Talalay latex of 3” might fit that bill vs a memory foam topper? I have fairly broad shoulders at 6’1” and 175lbs, so I need somewhere for those suckers to go when lying on my side. Hence the consideration for a 4” memory foam.

Richard has offered his thoughts on a suitable solution, based on the information you both discussed. Question for you: have you slept on a latex mattress before? Do you have access to local showrooms with COVID-safe policies where you might test the feel of a talalay latex mattress? The latex sleeping experience is quite different from that of memory foam; it would be worth the time and effort to experience some side-by-side latex vs memory foam testing, if possible. Looking forward to hearing more on your research and what next steps look like ;) .

Thanks,
Sensei
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Hopeful DIY guy 06 Sep 2020 16:46 #5

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Hey Sensei,

I am going to lay on a few latex mattresses at the only place I can find quality latex within driving distance tomorrow. I have been pleased with the SleepEZ customer service up to this point, so I am probably sticking with them for at least the firm and medium dunlop layers. I like the quality and durability of latex and want to give my business to those who have been so responsive thus far. Depending on how the latex experience goes tomorrow, I'll likely pull the trigger on the finishing topper of 3" soft Talalay (if the latex feels good) from EZ or a 3-4" memory foam topper from one of the trusted sources on this site. In the event of memory foam route, I'll hope that the other temperature regulating factors I have learned about on here will be enough to split the difference.

Will be test driving this "Savvy Rest" that has specs essentially in line what I would get through Sleep EZ. They at least offer a Dunlop/Dunlop/Talalay option so I'm hoping they'll have something close to that in store. If nothing else I'm excited to lay on latex in general and see how they feel to my body.

greendreambeds.com/product/serenity-10-inch-mattress/

Thanks for your guidance so far. Will report back tomorrow but want to get in on the Labor Day specials. So tomorrow may be the day!
Thanks,
Chris

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Hopeful DIY guy 07 Sep 2020 12:06 #6

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Reporting back after getting on some latex mattresses. I loved the feel and thought I found a great balance between comfort and support. The configuration that felt best for us (my gf and I) were:
(top to bottom):
3" Soft Talalay (with cotton/wool cover)
3" Medium Talalay
3" Medium Dunlop
3" Firm Dunlop

We tried a variety of layers and combinations, and this one felt the best and would still fit our budget.

The wrinkle here is that I know I have a contact allergy to latex. If I wear latex medical gloves or handle other latex materials, I'll get red and itchy skin. I know I am not anaphylactic as I have had more than a few instances of coming into contact with latex and never had serious symptoms.
My concern today at the store I was lying on a latex pillow without a cover and did have some symptoms pop up. I thought it was a foam pillow, obviously I would not have tried to lie on an uncovered latex pillow knowing what I do. My face became flush and I got pretty hot. Past that it's hard to tell how much was my anxiety and how much the latex, but it did seem like my breathing changed a bit. We left the store and came home, after about an hour or so I was mostly back to baseline, maybe a headache.

I assume I would be ok if the latex materials are covered, and the reps at Sleep EZ confirmed this line of thinking. My hesitation now is that the combination we would like to build is not available as a pre-fab mattress. If we did order the four separate toppers for DIY and the latex was an issue, I can only return one topper to SleepEZ. I am not hating on them, I know that's their policy.

I have read through various posts about latex allergies on TMU and especially the detailed guide of the various types that Phoenix has posted about. Again, I assume I don't have the worst reaction otherwise it probably would have manifested by now. I also don't expect a medical opinion on a mattress forum; I'm in the medical field know only a medical professional can diagnose and advice on medical conditions like an allergy. Just updating the lurkers and Sensei on my current status after trying latex out today.

I guess I am down to just going for it and then trying to resell the other toppers I wouldn't able to return to SleepEZ or go back to square one and try construct using memory foam, which I am less thrilled about.
Thanks,
Chris

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Hopeful DIY guy 07 Sep 2020 14:11 #7

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Hey Chris,

Thanks for sharing your field report findings and for the updates :) !

I guess I am down to just going for it and then trying to resell the other toppers I wouldn't able to return to SleepEZ or go back to square one and try construct using memory foam, which I am less thrilled about.

Sounds like you are doing a good job of narrowing options down and coming closer to making a decision. Looking forward to hearing which way you decide to go and good luck ;) .

Thanks,
Sensei
Sensei(@ TMU Team)
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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