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Back pain, recovering from cancer surgery, need a bed ASAP! 12 Jul 2019 18:59 #1

  • Aus10sntx
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Needing much help as my back just can’t take it anymore! I was told I needed to post within an expert topic section so I’m hoping this is ok!

I'm 5'5, 165lbs and a side sleeper mainly (sometimes back). My husband is 6'1 220lbs and a side sleeper who tosses and turns, and sleeps hot also.

We too purchased a mattress from Habitat Furnishings about 4 years ago, it was a 8" latex, 2" top talalay layer with 6" dunlop, considered the medium-firm. Originally my husband wanted to go with the firmer option, said we can always make something softer, not more firm, but I don't like a firm comfort top plus I am side sleeper.
About 1 year ago I started to feel lower back pain when I would wake up. I also sometimes got some shoulder pinching even though the bed feels way too soft. About 2 months ago I unfortunately found out I had cancer in my ribs and had major surgery to remove 3 of my left ribs and replaced with 2 titanium ribs. Ever since I've been home I've had even worse back pain, feeling so uncomfortable, not getting a good night's sleep and I feel like I'm recovering slower. I feel lower back pain worse and constant pain all over my back, knots, etc.

I've been reading this site, trying to learn, and also becoming very overwhelmed with the amount of information. I've tested just to feel different mattresses - Casper, Sleep Number, Purple, Intellibed, BeautyRest Black, etc. to just get a feel for mattresses.

Intellibed felt amazing but I'm not paying that price. My husband definitely wants a hybrid with pocketed coils, but I'm unsure of the comfort layer and what will provide the best comfort, pressure relief and durability. I figured it made sense to continue with some latex considering it's resiliency.

I did see you recommended Texas Mattress Makers in Houston and considered driving out there. Instead I have family in SA and went to Cantwell - I ended liking a $3200 bed - 4th Generation 1090: Organic Fabric, Organic Cotton Batting, 2" natural latex, pocketed micro coil, 1 1/4" latex lumbar, 368 Heavy duty coil Not Pocketed - 17" total
Because of your website, I felt more knowledgeable and thought I asked all the right questions...
It felt amazing, it felt not too soft, but like I was on a cloud but I wasn't sure if this pricing was in line with the materials. Should I have asked for density/ILD/etc? Could I get something from an online retailer for less expensive?
Also I wasn't sure of the non pocketed primary support layer, the GM mentioned that pocketed coils can rub. He had pointed me to a few beds that did not have pocketed coils, but I told him my husband wanted pocket coils.
The PRO about this company is that they give a 365 guarantee (no full return) but they will change the comfort layer to either more soft/firm, etc. for what you need and from the initial order I would be able to order my husband's side more firm than standard, if we wanted - no price difference. I'm on the fence on this bed, CON: not being able to fully return it like some brands offer (Nest and others) and what I'm getting for $3200.

I thought Texas Mattress Makers would be less expensive but in looking at their site it recommends the Oslo Plush $3220 - medium firm - Overall Height: 15”
Layers: 3″ Graphite Infused Latex, pocketed coil system, extra firm stabilizing base foam, Sereni Sleep® Fire Retardant Fiber; Edge Support: Quantum Edge
If I'm not buying from an online retailer that allows a full refund, I think I would need to go test these beds out but I'm really just wanting to order something and be done with it!
Do you have any insights on Graphite infused latex?

And $4320 for a comparative micro coil bed, TMM offers Athens Graphite Latex Hybrid - Overall Height: 15”
Layers: Graphite latex, high density support layer, Quantum® Micro Pocketed Coil System, extra firm stabilizing base foam layer.

So I'm back on your site, looking at Nest Bedding, Ghostbed,
Nest Alexander Signature Hybrid- PRO: seems intriguing for their 365 return, much lower price point $1599, but I thought I read that anyone over 200lbs should have >5lb memory foam which the top layer is .25" of 4lb gel infused memory foam. This bed has no latex in it, just layers of foam. PRO: I also like that you can get an internal split on the firmness.

I also considered the GhostBed - but their site only shows layer depth only, not lb/weight and again this is all foam, no latex.

I'm becoming lost and unsure of where to look next. Whether it make sense or not to make the drive out to Houston. I'm not too crazy about the other SA/ATX bedding places you mentioned in the previous post reply . Doesn't seem like they have any of the member brands you mentioned.

Really any help at this point you can provide would be MOST welcome! Thank youuuu. My back and recovery thanks you.


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Back pain, recovering from cancer surgery, need a bed ASAP! 15 Jul 2019 13:07 #2

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Hi Aus10sntx,

Welcome to our Mattress forum :)! Thank you for your post and I am sorry to hear about cancer in your ribs, and all the sleep difficulties you’ve had since your surgery. That is really tough during recovery.

Should I have asked for ild/density/etc? Could I get something from an online retailers for less expensive?

Yes, it is always advisable to ask for the density / ILD information, so one can determine if the specifications have the right durability required. Additionally, it is good to know if the retailer/store will be forthcoming with this information. Cantwell Mattress company does have an excellent reputation in the SA area, so you should probably call or email them for this information.

The innerspring that is not pocketed coils will still act a very durable support core for a mattress. It is nice they have their guarantee and they will work with you on the different firmness’s.

There are a number of our Mattress Experts that offer pocketed coil mattresses, and many have a variety of latex comfort layers used on top of the coil base. Luma Sleep has a Natural Latex Hybrid Mattress where you can exchange the top 2” latex layer for free during the first year. The Nest and Ghostbed, in addition to the Luma Sleep, are excellent choices and you can find these in our list of Mattress members and you would also get a very good quality/value for money in an "apples to apples" comparison. Of course, these, like most online retailers, you can return for a full refund if you are not satisfied.

Do you have any insight on graphite infused latex?

Generally speaking, the graphite infused latex will be of the same general quality as regular latex. But more importantly, what is the ILD/density of the graphite latex. Is it a Talalay or Dunlop process? Supposedly the graphite will help wick moisture away, and it also helps with passing the FR regulations, as it is not as flammable as regular latex. That said, not sure you will notice any of the benefits as this layer is below all of the quilt material.

You seem to have done quite a bit “due diligence” with testing and researching your options. It's great that you’ve determined that you’d like something with pocket coils for you and your husband and I can certainly understand the sense of overwhelm with thousands of posts on the forum but I'd keep in mind that most of the mattresses you've mentioned have different designs and materials which in addition to ILD and density will also introduce more variables for your consideration. (every difference between two mattresses can either have a cumulative effect or an offsetting effect that is very difficult for even a knowledgeable and experienced online manufacturer or retailer to predict how will play out for each individual.) While we are always happy to help with "how" to choose and to act as a "fact check …. in terms of "what" to choose of either a mattress or the balance between comfort/pressure relief and support/alignment that may be suitable for a specific person is always up to the only person who can feel what they feel on a mattress and best left to personal testing and experiences or more detailed discussions with the more knowledgeable people at the retailers or manufacturers that sell a mattress you are considering.

I read that anyone over 200lbs should have >5lb memory foam which the top layer is .25" of 4lb gel infused memory foam.

Yes you are correct that higher BMI ranges will need more durable materials and components in a mattress and in a BMI range of 30 or higher I would include any 4 lb memory foam or 1.8 lb polyfoam as a "lower quality/density" material (relative to a higher BMI only) and minimize their use to a total of "about an inch or so or less" in the mattress. For memory foam (or gel memory foam), if your mattress is one sided then I would make sure that any memory foam is at least 5 lb per cubic foot. If the mattress is two-sided then I would use a minimum density of 4 lbs per cubic foot, according to the mattress durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress.

There are also a number of forum posts and threads about mattresses and higher weights and a forum title search on heavy (you can just click this) will bring up many of them. Some examples include the Latex memory Foams for heavy weights people in post #2 here and post #2 here and mattresses for heavy weight people topic here and Best Mattressess for Plus size people Post #3 here has more information and suggestions about heavier weights.

Again the best suggestion I can make (if you didn’t do this already) is to read through How to find the best mattress for you in post #1 here and the information it links to which will give you the basic information you need and will save you having to sort through all the information overload on the forum. And act as a reference to help you make good choices that are suitable for your needs and preferences

Once you’ve had a chance to reassess and narrow your options let us know you have any more questions.

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Back pain, recovering from cancer surgery, need a bed ASAP! 21 Jul 2019 19:26 #3

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Thanks for writing me back Phoenix! Appreciate your kind words. Can't complain too much b/c I'm alive! Just want a mattress to help heal. Since my post I've done a bit more research.

Yes, it is always advisable to ask for the density / ILD information, so one can determine if the specifications have the right durability required.

I'll be reaching out to them for sure, but I did get a chance to visit Texas Mattress Makers - I drove out to Houston last Sunday. While I wish it was really worth the drive..I didn't find "THE mattress" and was underwhelmed by the one mattress I landed on there. I wanted a hybrid coil w/latex. The pricing was in line w/what Cantwell had quoted, however.
    -1" foam
    -2" 21 ILD copper infused latex
    -2" 24 ILD graphite infused latex
    -1" transition
    -8" micro coil
    -2" base layer
Ultimately this mattress didn't wow me and it felt a bit too firm for me particularly.

I also visited Denver Mattress locally and tried out their brand, which I happened to like the most. It was between a layered memory foam+coil OR a latex+coil. Finally when my husband tried them out this past weekend, surprisingly to me he didn't like the latex (even though we have all latex right now). Also surprisingly out of all mattresses he tried, he liked the exact same memory foam+coil.
Could you see any weak links in this mattress? $1200
Quilt Layers:
-knit ticking
-1" anti-microbial Super soft EF form
-1 1/2" Anti-Microbial 1.8lb High Density EF Convoluted Foam
-Rayon Fire Barrier

Comfort Layers:
-2" 4lb Gel/Visco Memory Foam
-1" 2lb High density luxury plush EF Foam
-1 Flex Net Insulator

Support System:

-BOSS (Balanced Orthopedic Sleep System)
-750 alternating checkboard coils for queen (we'd have more with king)
-14.5 gauge twice tempered steel

I think this seems to be a good solid choice based on what I've read on your site. My hesitation is that I did read that folks have complained about durability with Denver mattress and seeing impressions sooner than expected. I also wasn't 100% in love with the mattress. It felt really good to both of us but I felt so much better on the mattress in San Antonio, I just know my husband doesn't want to spend $3k.
I'd rather us start with a mattress from an online company that we can try out and then return if we don't like it.

I was about to order the Saatva as I figured we could try this out, Sleep Like the Dead gave it the top pick based on my questionnaire and overall good scoring - www.sleeplikethedead.com/mattress-reviews-saatva.html
But then I did read a lot of the comments/reviews on your page and once again, hesitated to pull the trigger.
I did like that it was a coil on coil, DID NOT come wrapped up in a box (I do have to wonder how this impacts the mattress w/coils being tightly boxed up for shipping), and the lumbar support enhancement in the bed as that's what has been hurting me a lot.

I'm ultimately thinking purchasing online would be the best option at this point, trying out a mattress based on the materials and what we've tested out so far, and go with a company that allows returns.

Could you help advise to any other companies you think may be a solid option? Definitely want a coil hybrid. Looking at:

Winkbeds - $1799
Like the coil on coil, and the heat dispersing technology
based on your previous post, the 2" 1.5lb poly foam concerns me as my husband is 220lbs
I have not found the rest of the densities and size of layers.

- $1599
Originally looked at latex hybrid, but now considering Signature Hybrid. Do like the ability to have one side firmer than the other.
    -.25" 4 lb. Gel Infused Memory Foam & Super Soft Quilted Thermic Phase Change Fabric
    -3" 3.5 lb. Medium TitanChill Endurance Foam®
    -1" 3 lb. SmartFlow Support Foam
    -8" Quantum Edge Pocketed Support Coils
    -1" 3 lb. Base Support Foam

Ghostbed Flex Hybrid $1785
I do like the cooling aspect of this for my husband. That's why I was leaning towards latex initially.
Do you know the densities of this bed? Any weak links? Concerns about it being rolled and shipped in a box?
    -Cooling Cover
    -1” of Cooling Fiber
    -1” of Gel Memory Foam
    -1" Gel Memory Foam
    -1” gel-infused Memory Foam -absorbs and dissipates body heat as fresh air passes through the foam.
    -1” Ghost Flex Soft Transition Foam
    -soft transition foam
    -8.5" Individually Wrapped & Reinforced Support Coils — Additionally, the coils near the edge of GhostBed Flex are specially reinforced for better support — so you can sit on the edge of your bed without sliding off.
    -1" High Density Support Foam

Thank you in advance for any help you have!

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Back pain, recovering from cancer surgery, need a bed ASAP! 29 Jul 2019 18:42 #4

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Hi Phoenix,

I decided to pull the trigger on the Nest Signature Hybrid. Eager and looking forward to finally having a replacement mattress.

Will report back my experience with Nest soon.

I did want to share with you the layer details I got back from Cantwell mattress. I thought you’d be willing to share your insights with the quality of materials comparative to the price I received. I REALLY did like this bed the most from everything I tried out in-person but I was having a hard time justifying the price.

(This is what I received from store manager)

Cantwell - $3200 - 4th Generation 1090:

—Organic Fabric, Organic Cotton Batting -
Fabric is made of organic cotton. The fabric is very thin, but if you are asking how thick the quilt is, the quilt is approximately 2 inches thick.

—2" natural Talalay latex
The ILD of the topper that we use is a range from 11-16. Each latex topper varies a bit because it derives from sap from the rubber tree. The 11-16 ild range falls under the N1 category for firmness. N2 is the next level firmer, then N3, N4, and N5. N1 is what we use for toppers and then will go firmer upon request or when performing a firmness change.

—2.75” pocketed quantum micro coil
-The pocketed coil extends the entire width and length of mattress. The micro pocketed coil is just over 2.75” tall.

—1 1/4" latex lumbar
-The lumbar latex is now ½” with the 30 ILD. It is zoned. Larger holes(softer) towards the head/foot, smaller holes(denser) in the lumbar area.

—368 Heavy duty coil Not Pocketed
-The 368 is about 6” tall.

--There is a 1” 2034 foam as well as 2” of dense fiber.

Total is 17” mattress

Thanks in advance as you never know, I may be looking back at this mattress if Nest doesn’t work out for us!

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Back pain, recovering from cancer surgery, need a bed ASAP! 01 Aug 2019 12:07 #5

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Hi Aus10sntx,

You are very welcome and thank you for your kind words. Congratulations on the new Nest Signature Hybrid!!! :cheer:

As you know Nest Bedding is one of Trusted Members which means that I think very highly of them and that I believe that they compete well with the best in the mattress industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. I certainly look forward to hearing how it works out for you after you receive it and have a chance to sleep on it for a while. I'd first make sure to give some time for your body to adjust to the new mattress and for the mattress to adjust to you,... it can take up to 30 days for your body to adjust to a new sleep surface as well as lose some of its “learned alignment”,

Thank you for taking the time to share the Cantwell specifications, this is certainly a nice mattress with no weak links as it relates to the materials you provided in the post. I am glad that they were willing to share the complete mattress specifications. The N1-N5 are Talalay global's 100% Natural Talalay designations and it good that Cantwell allows for customization as with your surgery it may take a bit of fine-tuning. The 2" of organic cotton batting seems quite thick... there should be a weight specification that can be used for more accurate estimations but it's not relevant for you at this time. As with the nature of any quilt fiber, if it's polyester or cotton, it will compress fairly quickly. While quilt thickness and fiber compression are not considered weak links and are relative to the overall design of the mattress, its thickness and compression can be an issue for some people so with your condition it is good to be aware of.

As far as value for quality ... there is more about the 3 most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your Mattress buying personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

I wish many restful nights on your new mattress and the best with your recovery from the rib cancer and surgery, I can't fully imagine how difficult this can be, but my thoughts are with you.

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