TOPIC:

Hi Phoenix,

First, thank you for your time and expertise...I'm truly grateful to get steered into the right direction on our heavenly hunt for comfort. I've purchased my share of mattresses and have learned more than I ever wanted to know to the point of becoming a pretty good candidate to be a mattress salesperson. (though I am not!)

I've read extensively through your helpful articles relating to the durability components to look for (higher BMI need 1" or less of padding to avoid breakdown) and so forth. Latex runs cooler than memory foam, brands to avoid due to lack of transparency, and know that this is all subjective as every shape and preference and health issue is so different.

I once purchased a firm Beautyrest for my mother...that thing is still going strong. Who knew? I bought it at some random little outlet on Sepulveda Blvd in West LA. I reside in Santa Monica by the way, hence my username. We added a foam topper and this way she can customize it to her likeness and it's still as comfortable as the day I bought it...wonderful.

My husband and I purchased a Cloud Supreme Tempurpedic 8 years ago. We paid a small fortune for it in an Eastern King size. It's been fine but it's time to replace. We do not want another memory foam, however. We miss the ease of movement you get from an innerspring. I find that shopping for a mattress is a lot like "process of elimination" as it helps to know what you don't want! The bed runs warm and I don't like the sinking feel and find it very hard to move around.

I should also note that I am a "combo" sleeper. I switch from side to back. My husband is mainly side. He's a high BMI (big guy!) and I'm average BMI, petite female. But the biggest issue is my chronic body pain I've lived with for over 18 years. I have a goodie bag of ailments in my spine, cervical and lumbar both, plus hip pain and overall arthritis, stiff-stiff all the time, achy and tender. Unfortunately, I've yet to find the "Magic Mattress". But, I'd be happy with moderate firm to firm and with something that provided a healthy alignment so I could rest deeply.

In a nutshell -- we want:
Firm to moderate firm (you mention in a post if you're undecided between two moderate firm and firm, go for firm.) I think you mention this because the durability will be longer without the extra padding to breakdown over time, correct?

No memory foam -- but an innerspring maybe hybrid

King size

Under $2500 (my husband doesn't want to be "married" to the mattress in case we hate in 5 years.) We've kept our Tempurpedic longer than we wanted because of the large investment.

Quality - of course and no online purchase

Questions:
Sampled a "Monterra" Aireloom King and it felt great. Both in Firm and Firm plush. The plush was nice because of the tufted quilt surface and it felt luxurious. But, would be afraid the plusher one wouldn't last as long due to my heavy husband. ?
The sales rep told me they have an "Atlantic Dream" in the warehouse that was never sold (still in the bag) and could sell it for 50% off. This is a $4700 mattress he'd give us for $2175 with a 100 day free trial, no restocking fee, we'd just have to spend the "credit" with them if we returned. I'm leaning towards this idea....but wonder, is the Atlantic Dream really like the Monterra model (just a different year, the rep tells me.) We are fearful of accepting a mattress site unseen. What do you think? You mention this is a brand to avoid and I have a photo of the specs but is that not enough info to go by? See attached photo. This photo is of the "plusher" of the two. There's also an extra firm version of the exact same he could also do for the same price (another unused return). Would you go for the firmer of the two, given my husband is heavy and if after time, I think it's too stiff, could always put a topper on it?

2nd question:
What's your opinion on Sleep by Number? They feel ok, nothing like the Aireloom but the duel adjustability is interesting. And they're pricey. How about Sherwood Lumina?

3rd question:
Is there a magic brand out there and WHAT BRAND DO YOU SLEEP ON?

Thanks for your time!

Best,
Janel

Hi santamonicagal,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum!

First, thank you for your time and expertise...I'm truly grateful to get steered into the right direction on our heavenly hunt for comfort.

You’re very welcome.

I've read extensively through your helpful articles relating to the durability components to look for (higher BMI need 1" or less of padding to avoid breakdown) and so forth.

I’m not sure exactly where you read this particular piece of data, but that generally wouldn’t be correct. Heavier people in general will need firmer and thicker comfort layers and firmer support layers than those who are lighter and because no materials will last as long with much higher weights the quality and durability of the materials and components is even more important than normal. Post #3 here has more information and suggestions about higher BMIs that is worth reading.

We do not want another memory foam, however. We miss the ease of movement you get from an innerspring. I find that shopping for a mattress is a lot like "process of elimination" as it helps to know what you don't want! The bed runs warm and I don't like the sinking feel and find it very hard to move around.

Being able to reposition is a key component of achieving deeper stages of sleep, and many people do find that memory foam “sleeps warmer” for them, so avoiding a product using similar material for your next mattress is probably a good idea based upon your comments.

But the biggest issue is my chronic body pain I've lived with for over 18 years. I have a goodie bag of ailments in my spine, cervical and lumbar both, plus hip pain and overall arthritis, stiff-stiff all the time, achy and tender. Unfortunately, I've yet to find the "Magic Mattress". But, I'd be happy with moderate firm to firm and with something that provided a healthy alignment so I could rest deeply.

I’m sorry to hear about your multiple issues. Unfortunately, there is no one “magic mattress” that works to address so many issues – I wish there was! The best you can do is find something that tends to not exacerbate your current issues, uses good quality materials, and provides both good support and adequate comfort .

Firm to moderate firm (you mention in a post if you're undecided between two moderate firm and firm, go for firm.) I think you mention this because the durability will be longer without the extra padding to breakdown over time, correct?

Not necessarily. Everyone’s definition of “firm” and “moderate firm” are of course different, but sleep ergonomic research will generally recommend if you’re “flipping a coin” between two comparable products and one has a slightly firmer surface comfort than the other, then you should lean toward the slightly firmer item, as over time all foams soften a bit and you’d always have the option to choose a plush topper to create more surface comfort. Between support/alignment and surface plushness, they’ll generally recommend to prioritize the former.

Sampled a "Monterra" Aireloom King and it felt great. Both in Firm and Firm plush. The plush was nice because of the tufted quilt surface and it felt luxurious. But, would be afraid the plusher one wouldn't last as long due to my heavy husband. ?
The sales rep told me they have an "Atlantic Dream" in the warehouse that was never sold (still in the bag) and could sell it for 50% off. This is a $4700 mattress he'd give us for $2175 with a 100 day free trial, no restocking fee, we'd just have to spend the "credit" with them if we returned. I'm leaning towards this idea....but wonder, is the Atlantic Dream really like the Monterra model (just a different year, the rep tells me.) We are fearful of accepting a mattress site unseen. What do you think?

If you’re looking to stay local, I’m guessing one of the reasons you’d want to consider something is that ability to be able to sample it in person, so I’d be leery of something sight unseen (and no specifications) that is “similar” to what you tried in person. You stated you’d done quite a bit of reading on the site, so you’re already familiar with the fact that you can’t feel quality or durability and that the only way to objectively evaluate any product is to learn the details of what is on the inside of the product, so make sure that you find out the information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase. Aireloom is unfortunately not generally forthcoming with complete details about their mattresses, but if you’re able to procure that information about the mattresses you’re considering and post it here I’ll do my best to comment upon that information.

You mention this is a brand to avoid and I have a photo of the specs but is that not enough info to go by? See attached photo.

Unfortunately, the photo provides little meaningful information about the comfort materials within the product.

There's also an extra firm version of the exact same he could also do for the same price (another unused return). Would you go for the firmer of the two, given my husband is heavy and if after time, I think it's too stiff, could always put a topper on it?

I’m not clear how a mattress could be an “unused return”. It doesn’t make sense that someone would purchase a mattress, not sleep upon it, and then return it. I’m not aware of the ability to determine whether or not a mattress would be comfortable by simply looking at it. But regardless, without knowing the complete specifications of the product, “discounted” or not, I would consider such an item a risky purchase and something to avoid.

What's your opinion on Sleep by Number? They feel ok, nothing like the Aireloom but the duel adjustability is interesting.

You can see some of my general comments about air mattresses here and in this article . While any mattress can be a good match for a specific person because each person's needs and preferences or the criteria that are most important to them can be very different ... in general terms I would tend to avoid them unless there is a very compelling reason that an airbed would be a better choice in "real life" (outside of the many "marketing stories" that you will hear about them) than the many other options or types of mattresses that are available to you.

Is there a magic brand out there and WHAT BRAND DO YOU SLEEP ON?

I sleep upon a latex mattress, although that should have absolutely no bearing on what you (or any other member of the forum) should choose. And no, there is no “magic brand” out there.

Phoenix

Thank you very much, Phoenix, for your reply and feedback, and please excuse my delay in replying.

You're right about Aireloom not being very transparent with their product information. I called the company direct and their answer was "we don't want to give out our "secret recipe". So disappointing. Then, I had the salesperson at the mattress store contact his Aireloom rep and again, no answer I didn't already know from what's on the description card in the showroom.

The mattress is an ultra firm Atlantic Dream that we were considering and it's been in their distribution center as an unused return because as the salesperson tells me, "it was ordered but never delivered because the customer changed their minds...and this is considered "dead stock" he tells me. I have to imagine that if a salesperson says it's never been used, that better be true, correct?

It's a good deal at $2175 if it is indeed brand new. But the catch is, after 100 days if we don't like it, there are no returns only exchanges so we'd have to commit to finding something in that store and couldn't go elsewhere.

I noticed Nest beds are on your member list and checked them out. I liked the Alexander Signature firm best. Love that they offer a money back refund if after 100 days we don't like it. Sounds like there's very little risk with Nest. Just am unsure about buying a box bed but see reviews are very good so that may be a good option for us before committing to another store.

Best,
Janel

Hi santamonicagal,

Thank you very much, Phoenix, for your reply and feedback, and please excuse my delay in replying.

You’re very welcome, and no worries!

You're right about Aireloom not being very transparent with their product information. I called the company direct and their answer was "we don't want to give out our "secret recipe". So disappointing. Then, I had the salesperson at the mattress store contact his Aireloom rep and again, no answer I didn't already know from what's on the description card in the showroom.

Unfortunately this is very common in the mattress industry. While there are certain specifications that I would consider to be legitimately “proprietary” and more comfort specs (ILD, for example), foam density would be one thing that a consumer would need in order to evaluate the durability/quality of componentry of polyfoam or memory foam within a mattress.

The mattress is an ultra firm Atlantic Dream that we were considering and it's been in their distribution center as an unused return because as the salesperson tells me, "it was ordered but never delivered because the customer changed their minds...and this is considered "dead stock" he tells me. I have to imagine that if a salesperson says it's never been used, that better be true, correct?

I would take them at their word, unless you had a specific reason to doubt them. It very well could be a cancelled order. The only thing that we can conclude about this mattress is that it uses a pocketed innerspring unit (which is rarely the weak link within a mattress), it uses a layer of blended latex from Talalay Global (but we don't know the thickness of that layer - but it would be a good quality material), and that it is tufted, which can be good for helping to increase durability.

It's a good deal at $2175 if it is indeed brand new. But the catch is, after 100 days if we don't like it, there are no returns only exchanges so we'd have to commit to finding something in that store and couldn't go elsewhere.

While the price may be reduced compared to their usual selling price, I’d still advise caution when you’re purchasing something without knowing the makeup of the materials within the mattress.

I noticed Nest beds are on your member list and checked them out. I liked the Alexander Signature firm best. Love that they offer a money back refund if after 100 days we don't like it. Sounds like there's very little risk with Nest. Just am unsure about buying a box bed but see reviews are very good so that may be a good option for us before committing to another store.

Yes, Nest Bedding it a site member here, which means that I think highly of them. Like many (primarily) online companies, they do offer good options for returns/exchanges. And while I know there are many reviews online for these various brands, I’ll recommend that you focus primarily upon the componentry within the mattress (using the links I provided in my previous reply), as that will give you a better chance at choosing something that can provide you a durable comfort life (combined with a detailed phone conversation with any manufacturer you’re considering to assist you in selecting an appropriate product), more than someone else’s review that would have very little meaningful relevance as to what may or may not be appropriate for you personally. Were you considering the Alexander Signature Hybrid (the one with the springs in it) or the Alexander Signature Series (the one that uses a polyfoam core)?

Phoenix

Those two models were my favorite after sampling them all, but lean towards the signature for its slightly more firmer, solid feel. Still need to get my husband in there to see them. Even though we don’t care for a memory foam feel (such as our current cloud supreme Temurpedic) I feel the polyfoam on the signature model offers more ease of movement and firmness.

Are there retailers in Santa Monica or Los Angeles that make your list or is it brand specific? I think a latex-individual coil hybrid might be a great fit (which I believe is the Aireloom) but am not sure what others to compare. I’m gonna give your list another look.

By the way, the salesperson answered 3lb density when trying to answer my question re density on the Aireloom but I was so confused with all the jibber jabber, I have no idea if that answer had any merit.

Thanks Phoenix.

Hi santamonicalgal,

Those two models were my favorite after sampling them all, but lean towards the signature for its slightly more firmer, solid feel. Still need to get my husband in there to see them.

I’m happy that you were able to go test out some of those Nest mattresses in person. Be sure to drag your husband in there!

Are there retailers in Santa Monica or Los Angeles that make your list or is it brand specific?

I have discontinued the provision of listings of potential retailers in various geographic regions (unless they are already approved site members), because of the difficulty in maintaining such lists in a retail landscape that is constantly changing, and most importantly the confusion it was creating with the consumer members who incorrectly assumed that these businesses had indeed gone through the strict vetting and qualification process that is part of becoming an approved member of The Mattress Underground. Such an assumption is unfair to both the consumers seeking assistance, as well as the very businesses and manufacturers who have indeed qualified the be members here of The Mattress Underground.

You can perform a forum search on Los Angeles or Santa Monica and see what other businesses have been discussed in that region which may be helpful to you. There are quite a few retailers in your area.

Whatever business you’re considering, remember to always confirm that any retailer or manufacturer that you wish to visit is completely transparent (see this article ) and also make sure that any mattress that you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines here .

If you have any questions about specifications or certain products you discover, feel free to post back on the forum and I’ll do my best to be assistive.

By the way, the salesperson answered 3lb density when trying to answer my question re density on the Aireloom but I was so confused with all the jibber jabber, I have no idea if that answer had any merit.

The mattress has a layer of memory foam in it, maybe that’s what they were referencing (which would be a lower quality memory foam than what I would recommend), but without specifics we can’t be sure so I don’t want to assume.

Phoenix

Well, decision made!!! I've ordered us a mattress today! And surprisingly, I took an entirely different direction at Nest. Sunday night I got my husband in to sample a few. I had him try my favorite three: Alexander hybrid, Alexander Signature, and Latex Hybrid. He liked the Alexander Signature in firm like I did. Except...while sampling them again, I changed my mind on my favorite and ended up preferring the Latex Hybrid. Q3 too soft for us. Alex hybrid, too springy.

The Latex Hybrid seemed to me, the perfect combination of wool/cotton, Dunlop Latex, individual pocketed coils, and bottom foam. At first I found it too soft and liked the firm signature model, but ultimately decided Signature firm may be a hair TOO firm and decided the Latex may give us the sweet spot and trifecta of comfort, support, and better durability in the end.

The beauty is that we can try it without risk. The Aireloom was nice but I didn't want to get stuck with one retailer should we end up not liking it. And when I went back yesterday to give the Aireloom a final try, I repeated my questions which the salesperson still couldn't answer. It didn't leave me with much confidence.

I'm relieved we made a decision and look frwd to our new Nest next week!

Best-j

Hi santamonicagal,

Congratulations on your new mattress purchase! I’m happy that you and your husband were able to find a combination that you both liked in the Next Hybrid Latex. It certainly uses good quality materials, and you of course have the ability to change the upper comfort layer with this design.

The Latex Hybrid seemed to me, the perfect combination of wool/cotton, Dunlop Latex, individual pocketed coils, and bottom foam. At first I found it too soft and liked the firm signature model, but ultimately decided Signature firm may be a hair TOO firm and decided the Latex may give us the sweet spot and trifecta of comfort, support, and better durability in the end.

It's interesting to note that many people in the industry with whom I have contact, and can sleep on anything they desire, prefer the feel of latex on top of pocketed springs.

The beauty is that we can try it without risk. The Aireloom was nice but I didn't want to get stuck with one retailer should we end up not liking it. And when I went back yesterday to give the Aireloom a final try, I repeated my questions which the salesperson still couldn't answer. It didn't leave me with much confidence.

Yes, that would give me pause as well.

I hope you’ll be able to provide feedback on how your mattress is performing for you once you’ve received it and have had a chance to adjust to it and sleep upon it for a while.

Phoenix

Thank you, Phoenix, will do.

Btw, I found that tidbit very interesting and satisfying -- regarding your comment on those in the industry who can sleep on anything preferring coil/Latex combo, made my day. If that isn't the best testimony and peace of mind for my choice, I don't know what is!

Appreciate your guidance very much.

Janel

Hi sanatamonicagal,

You're welcome!

Phoenix