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Avocado mattress? ... & Nest Bedding options 13 Jul 2018 15:36 #30

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Hi, jumping in to help shed some light.

The 1.5 is more porous and more breathable than denser foam in the quilted layer. 1.5" of foam isn't usually an issue since its so thin, and it's there to add a bit of comfort between the latex and your body. I did this because frankly I find a lot of people like the notion of latex but having never slept on it find its a little too firm. Of course we leave this out on the Organic version.

On the firm version of the Natural Hybrid Latex you have 3" 36 ILD Dunlop and 2" 23 ILD. All latex bed it's 36 ILD's on the firms as well.

I am trying to make these beds extremely competitive price-wise for customers, while also providing a comfortable and durable bed. I have been using 1.5 in quilted layer for years and have not consistently seen an issue, hence putting my money where my mouth is and saying I will replace it the lifetime of the bed.

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Avocado mattress? ... & Nest Bedding options 13 Jul 2018 15:38 #31

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The biggest difference in feel will be the Organic will be more of the traditional latex and wool feel, while the Natural version is more pressure relieving.

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Avocado mattress? ... & Nest Bedding options 13 Jul 2018 16:43 #32

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Thank you for the follow-up, NestBedding. The pressure-relief option with the Natural Latex Hybrid might just be the sweet spot, indeed, as our 28ILD Talalay latex hybrid mattress is a touch too firm when sleeping on our sides - and the 19ILD Talalay latex topper is too soft when sleeping on our backs.

Two questions:

1. Do you have the specs for the Medium version of the Natural Latex Hybrid? The Firm (36ILD) will likely be too firm for us as predominantly side sleepers (with some back sleeping). Additionally, the Soft version (14ILD) that Phoenix noted is probably too soft for when we sleep on our back.

2. What made you switch from Talalay latex back to Dunlop latex? I've heard that Talalay tends to be less dense/more supportive than the firmer Dunlop. Even with the more pressure-relieving 1.5 comfort layer, won't the use of Dunlop latex still make the Natural Latex Hybrid a bit firm?

Thanks again for the follow-up!

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Avocado mattress? ... & Nest Bedding options 13 Jul 2018 17:18 #33

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Hi Phoenix,

Thank you for the updates specs. Will there be a Medium version of the Natural Hybrid Latex at all, or is it only Soft and Firm?

Also, if it's possible to respond to my inquiries in Post #29 of this thread, we'd appreciate it as well. Simply didn't want that to get lost in the shuffle as this discussion expands.

Thank you!

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Last edit: by NestHaven.

Avocado mattress? ... & Nest Bedding options 13 Jul 2018 17:23 #34

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Well, the beauty of my latex beds both the hybrid and the all latex over Avocado is that we have a zipper and you can change out or order any feel you want

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Avocado mattress? ... & Nest Bedding options 14 Jul 2018 12:16 #35

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Oh, indeed, Nest Bedding - it's a great feature of those mattresses, for sure. That's one of the reasons we went with your company. So far, we've been very pleased overall with Nest's customer service and product quality. Your team has been great in helping us fine-tune our mattress comfort level, which the zipper cover & removable latex option make possible. We certainly are recommending your mattresses to other people when they inquire. After going through 8 other brands over the last year, we're very happy to have found Nest Bedding. Even with the comfort adjustments, it's still the best sleep we've had in over a year. Thank you for that!

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Last edit: by NestHaven.

Avocado mattress? ... & Nest Bedding options 15 Jul 2018 13:00 #36

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I've looked at Avocado's website, reviews for their mattresses, and this thread. The specifications vary among the sources. But let's take it straight from Avocado's website's FAQ "updated this week":

On our standard Avocado mattress, we use two seamless layers of Dunlop latex: 2 inches in the comfort layer (D65 / 14-19 ILD, medium); and a 1-inch layer (D65 / 14-19 ILD) as a core base component under the innerspring support coil unit.

On the Avocado Mattress with the optional Pillow-Top, we use three seamless layers of Dunlop latex — 2 inches in the Euro-top layer (D65 / 14-19 ILD, soft), 2 more inches of D65 latex in the comfort layer, and a 1-inch layer as a core base component


Our standard mattress uses 3" of D65 medium-plush latex while our pillow-top mattress uses 5" of D65 medium-plush latex.


Does this sound right? Have they been making their mattresses softer or is this information just incorrect?

Edit: Just finished chatting with someone from Avocado – a lot of standard generic answers. I wish I would have been able to chat with someone more technical. The hardest objective answer about the layers:

All of the latex is D65, the feel of the surface will depend on our many layers of latex we use. That's why it may be a soft, medium, or firm feel for those individual layers.



More personally: I ordered an all-latex 10" Organic mattress from SleepEZ. I'm am not pleased with it and will return it. I am considering a hybrid mattress – one of them being an Avocado. Since my point of reference is the SleepEZ mattress, I'll start here. The original top layer was 3" of soft 19-22 ILD Talalay latex, which I didn't like; especially moving around, reading, and whatnot. The layer was strangely too soft, squishy, and weakly supportive. SleepEZ recommended switching the middle layer of 3" medium 30-32 Dunlop latex with the soft top layer. I found this too firm at the top, but too giving overall... this weird broadly lumpy feeling. I'm guessing a thinner and somewhat firmer top layer and then firming up going down would solve my dislikes. But if I'm going to stay with an all-latex mattress, I rather go with a much cheaper Sleep On Latex one.

So, the Avocado or other hybrid... I'm not sure if I like an all-latex mattress. Even with the 3" of firm 37-40 Dunlop latex at the bottom of the SleepEZ mattress, I can just sink all the way down through all the layers, if the point of pressure is small enough combined with force. I only weigh about 173 pounds. Not having the push back is odd. It doesn't really feel right. I don't know if with time, I'll feel differently, but I've had the SleepEZ mattress for about two months now.

Do you think I would prefer either version of the Avocado mattresses (or any hybrid, for that matter) more than an all-latex mattress? Getting the true springiness and pushback from coils or have I just not tried the right latex and combinations of it?


[Please let me know if I should split this post into 2... Putting the second part in a new thread or a different thread (so many threads, so much information, so easy to get overwhelmed).]

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Last edit: by longtimematspring. Reason: Added information

Avocado mattress? ... & Nest Bedding options 16 Jul 2018 21:57 #37

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Hi longtimematspring.

Welcome back! :)

Sorry to hear that your current mattress is not working out for you as well as you hoped .... at least you had the foresight to chose a manufacturer with a good return and exchange policy that have your best interests at heart. Generally, "theory at a distance" won't predict how well you will sleep on a mattress or how it will "feel" when you sleep on it at home and even good guidance from a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer cannot replace your own testing and personal experience with a product as you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress.

Does this sound right? Have they been making their mattresses softer or is this information just incorrect?
Edit: Just finished chatting with someone from Avocado – a lot of standard generic answers. I wish I would have been able to chat with someone more technical.


I'd hold off a bit until the specs are confirmed .... Avocado has a bit of track record of being discussed on our forum and we've seen about 3 sets of specs changing in the last short wile (This is the second time their specifications changed since August last year see here }. Also one of our researchers reached out to them to get some clarification and we'll make sure to get back to you as soon as we find out more.

So, the Avocado or other hybrid... I'm not sure if I like an all-latex mattress.


Not everyone likes the feel of an All latex mattress .. . While both innersprings and a firmer latex core can be used as a support layer each has very "different" characteristics but besides the more obvious ones the most important differences are the ones you can feel and that you personally prefer. Both of them come in softer or firmer versions and in many different designs so an innerspring could be firmer than a latex core or the other way around depending on the specifics of the components you are comparing. There is more detailed information about innersprings vs latex support cores in post #2 here and in Post #28 latex versus springs. Some of the more technical differences include:
• Innersprings have a more "flat line" response curve than latex ( see the graph here ) but because there are many types of Iinnersprings with different response curves this doesn't always hold true and there are also different types of latex which would also have different response curves.
• Innersprings absorb less energy than latex which means they are more resilient. They "push back" more strongly than latex in other words but this is not the same as softness ... only about how much of the energy that is used to compress them is lost (or how high a ball will bounce when it's dropped on them).
• Latex has a similar or higher compression modulus than most innerspring spring rates and either gets firmer with deeper compression at a similar rate as an innerspring (Talalay) or at a faster rate than an innerspring (Dunlop) which means it can be more "supportive".
• Different innersprings have widely different abilities to take on the shape of the body (depending on the number of coils and how independently they function) while latex is much more "point elastic" than any of them because it can flex in each part of the core with less effect on the area around it than an innerspring.
• In general, latex will be more motion isolating than an innerspring.
• Firmer latex will be more durable than an innerspring but neither of them would tend to be the weak link of a mattress.

But if I'm going to stay with an all-latex mattress, I rather go with a much cheaper Sleep On Latex one.


As you already know Sleep On Latex is one of the manufacturing Trusted Members of this site and like all the members here I think very highly of and consider them to compete well with "the best" in the industry.

Do you think I would prefer either version of the Avocado mattresses (or any hybrid, for that matter) more than an all-latex mattress? Getting the true springiness and pushback from coils or have I just not tried the right latex and combinations of it?


It is not possible to tell what you'd prefer in terms of mattress feel or what you'd need to sleep comfortably on it. Even with a detailed description of the differences you may feel with different layerings or specs and your history with a particular mattress, there are far too many variables at work .... some of which are very personal and intangible in nature which is why your own research in combination with personal testing generally works best. Your own testing will also give you a much better sense of the many different types of materials and components that are used in mattresses and some reference points about the types of mattresses (see this article ) and general firmness levels you tend to prefer which can help you narrow down your choices. The mattress that you currently sleep on and the one you are considering are very different designs.

Let us kow if you manage to confirm the AG specs before us
Phoenix
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Avocado mattress? ... & Nest Bedding options 17 Jul 2018 14:34 #38

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Simply a quick update on the Nest Hybrid Latex. Again, Nest's Customer Service team has been great to deal with. After speaking with them about the revised Hybrid Latex lineup, it doesn't appear that the revisions will be all that drastic, so we're going to stick with our current Hybrid Latex version, which continues to break in nicely.

Nest is sending us a 24ILD soft Talalay latex pad to see if that provides the comfort layer that we're looking for (soft enough for our shoulders, but supportive enough for our backs). If it's still too soft, then we'll likely stick with the 28ILD medium Talalay latex pad that came with the mattress.

We're so glad that Nest included the option to swap out the latex pad within the mattress. That's definitely been worth the price of admission for us. The longer we use this mattress, the more we like it. We're certainly getting better sleep on this mattress - much more so than on any of the other 8 mattresses that we tried (Brentwood Home, Satvaa, Aireloom, Serta, Leesa, Intellibed, etc.).

Thank you to this site and to Nest Bedding for helping us get a good-night's sleep again!

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Avocado mattress? ... & Nest Bedding options 17 Jul 2018 14:42 #39

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At the end of the day: no customer will be unhappy or I will refund your money. If there is a better material on the market, I will stop using what I am using and use that. I source latex from the best sources I can find. I use my extensive experience and build the best I can build. I don't gouge customers, we make a good but smaller margin on our beds, back them up with warranties and guarantees to help take the guess work out, and try to make a bed that customers will love for many years to come.

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