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Review: Sleep EZ 13" latex bed + advice on layer stacking? 30 Jul 2017 16:01 #1

  • potpot
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I just wanted to post about our journey, as I read a lot of the posts and reviews on this forum while searching for our bed and found them interesting and helpful.

About my background:
I'm about 5'9" 185 and my wife is 5'6" and 135. Both of us are 75% side sleepers / 25% back sleepers.
My wife and I slept on a Simmons Beautyrest innerspring for many years -- I loved it, but my wife did not. Of course - I used to be able to sleep comfortably anywhere, which has changed as I've gotten older, so I don't know how I would feel about the bed now.
We switched to a Nest Bedding Alexander Signature (memory foam) medium-firmness bed and found the opposite to be true -- my wife liked it, but I just could not get comfortable. I slept on that bed for two years and always woke up with back stiffness and pain. It was super-comfortable for the first 30 minutes, but my hips sunk in too much and there just wasn't enough support.
Re: foundation - we put all our mattresses on the floor, so there's no issue with the foundation affecting the support.

So after doing a great deal of reading, we took the leap and bought the Sleep EZ 13" all-latex bed. We tried a handful of latex beds prior to this, but it was hard to find a lot of good latex bed stores in our region and we didn't have the time to drive super-far, so we just took the plunge. I figured that there were so many customizable options (especially with 4 layers of latex on each side), that we should be able to figure out what our optimal combinations were. We've been sleeping on it now for a couple weeks. Here are some initial conclusions:

1) It is actually quite labor-intensive to re-stack all the latex mattresses. I am someone who will typically try out combinations ad nauseum to ensure I've perfectly optimized everything, but stacking and re-stacking 8 half-king size latex pads by yourself is very tiring! If my wife were not pregnant and could help me, this may be easier, but doing it by myself in my small-ish bedroom where there isn't much space to lay everything out, I am typically sweating and have an aching back by the time I'm done. So in my mind, I'd expected I would be able to try out all the different combinations to test which one I'd like best. In reality, I'm probably going to run out of steam soon.

2. One thing I had not expected is that the edge support is quite poor. The best way to mitigate this appears to be to make sure that your layers are all stacked perfectly on top of each other and that they go right up to the very edge of the mattress cover so there's no wiggle-room. In practice though, this seems very difficult to do perfectly and to do on all the edges ... and even if it's done perfectly, the outside 3-4 inches around the perimeter of the bed is quite a bit softer than the rest of the bed. My wife has complained that if she gets close to the edge, she feels like she's just going to roll right off, and that our functional bed-space is less than it was with the Alexander Signature.

3. We both love some plushness in our beds - we've typically liked about "medium"-firmness, and if it weren't for my hips sinking in when I'm on my back, I personally would love to sleep on a very soft bed -- but we've been surprised at how we have actually liked the firmer setups in latex.

Originally, on my side, I had gotten Soft Talalay / Soft-medium Talalay (ILD 25) / Medium Talalay / Firm Talalay, and on her side, we'd gotten Soft Talalay / Soft-medium Dunlop (ILD 25) / Medium Dunlop / Firm Dunlop.

However, we've discovered that any setup with Soft Talalay, Soft-medium Talalay, or Medium Talalay on the top two layers has been too soft for us - it almost has a "waterbed" or air-mattress feel and your back sinks right in. To take Phoenix's analogy, it's as if you're lying on a bed of angel food cake (as opposed to the denser feel of pound cake, which would describe the feeling of dunlop), or trying to fall asleep on a marshmellow that caves in when you lie on it. This was surprising to me - as after reading lots of reviews and talking to latex experts (and doing some 5-minute tests on beds in-store), I had expected to prefer the Talalay.

I was contemplating just returning all the Talalay except for the Soft top layers and switching both of us to all-dunlop, when as a last-gasp attempt to confirm Talalay was not for me, I tried putting (top->bottom) Soft Talalay => Firm Talalay => Medium Dunlop => Medium-soft Dunlop.

And yay! It's only been one night for me so I need to see how my body adjusts, but in terms of comfort, I love the feeling! The soft Talalay over Firm Talalay over Dunlop provides some of the buoyancy of Talalay but I don't sink into it like I'm trying to sleep on a marshmellow.

My wife right now is on Soft Talalay => Firm Dunlop => Medium Talalay => Medium-soft Talalay, and she thinks it's fine. The combinations she seems to favor are Soft Talalay over either Medium or Firm Dunlop. To be honest - she does not yet love the feeling of latex - she complains that it feels more "mushy" rather than "soft". My impression is that she just really dislikes the feeling of Talalay, so I am considering switching her back to Soft Talalay => S-M Dunlop => M Dunlop => F Dunlop, as she did not try that one for very long.

Anyway - if anyone has any suggestions on which direction we should try adjusting next, I would love any additional guidance. I think it's a little strange right now that we've both got our firm layers near the top, and then the layers become progressively softer below. It makes me think that we should be swapping out those medium-soft layers for firms or at least mediums, so if the beds get any softer over the next couple years, we can try to adjust a little bit. Also - if we have a firm layer as our second layer - how much does it matter what's below? Like if you have firm dunlop as your second layer, will you be able to tell the difference between having medium talalay vs. medium dunlop as your third layer?

This has been an interesting journey -- but I feel like we're getting closer and closer to finding our ideal bed! Thanks for your thoughts and for sharing your experiences!

The versions we've tried are (top => bottom):
S-T / 25-T / M-T / F-T (too soft for both of us),
S-T / 25-D / M-D / F-D (maybe worth trying again)
S-T / 25-D / F-T / M-T (too soft)
S-T / 25-T / M-D / F-D (too soft)
S-T / M-T / F-D / 25-T (too soft)
S-T / M-D / F-T / 25-D (this one seemed to work for my wife)
S-T / F-D / M-T / 25-T (works for my wife)
S-T / F-T / M-D / 25-D (the first one I liked)

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Review: Sleep EZ 13" latex bed + advice on layer stacking? 30 Jul 2017 18:57 #2

OH MY GOD!!!!!! LOL.... I'm sorry but I have to say... you really made me laugh....LOL. Please don't take this as an insult... you really made me laugh to the point of tears coming down my cheeks.... but I am really laughing at myself because I just see myself doing the same thing as you and I think I am about to throw the towel and just go to Macy's and buy the first mattress I find to be kind of comfortable and call it a day. You are just too funny..!!!! I really want a latex mattress with dunlop and Talalay on the top.. but after reading your post... I'm not too sure anymore....LOL. I'm just joking... believe it or not... your post has helped me to understand that I might not be willing to swap layers all by myself. Your wife is lucky to have you to switch them to find the comfort she needs. But your wife is pregnant....? Remember... she will not be comfortable in ANY mattress for a while....

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Review: Sleep EZ 13" latex bed + advice on layer stacking? 30 Jul 2017 19:19 #3

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Hi potpot,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

Thanks for taking the time to provide some thoughts about your new mattress. I’ll provide a few comments on the thoughts you provided.

It is actually quite labor-intensive to re-stack all the latex mattresses.


In a small area, it can be difficult to relocate the layers you are rearranging. It is easier with two people, especially once you get the hand of rolling up layers and perfect the ability to “put a wave” through a layer to reposition it.

One thing I had not expected is that the edge support is quite poor.


There will not be a hard polyurethane racetrack edge system around a latex mattress, and it will not feel like the edge of an innerspring mattress. The softness of the edge will depend upon the style/softness of latex you are stacking (you do have two plush layers in each configuration) and your skill at aligning these layers. You should still be able to sleep close to the edge of a latex mattress, but generally not as close as an innerspring mattress using a hard polyfoam edge encasement system, so this can take a bit of getting used to.

I personally would love to sleep on a very soft bed -- but we've been surprised at how we have actually liked the firmer setups in latex.


Many sleep ergonomic researchers would approve of you choosing a slightly firmer comfort, as it tends to provide better deep alignment, which is a key factor for your time spent in the deeper phases of sleep. Overall, too many people searching for a mattress choose too plush of a product. Latex is unique in that is it very point elastic and can provide very good comfort while still being quite supportive at the same time.

Anyway - if anyone has any suggestions on which direction we should try adjusting next, I would love any additional guidance.


I don’t know how long you’ve had your mattress, but my first suggestion would be to not make changes too quickly for the sake of making changes, or just because you have the ability to make changes. I’ll suggest at least two weeks for any new configuration to give it a fair chance and to allow your body to adjust. And if you have a configuration you like, I would suggest sleeping on it for a while.

You definitely seem to be leaning toward a bit of a firmer feel on the upper layers, so a soft Dunlop will tend to feel a bit firmer than a soft Talalay (has a different compression modulus and “firms up faster”), so you may wish to try that for an upper layer, or try one of the medium layers for your upper layer. With what you have, you could even try two medium layers, then a firm, and place your soft layer on the bottom to see if you do indeed prefer a bit of a firmer surface comfort, as you said you’ve surprised yourself in finding. And don’t forget that you have an excellent resource in SleepEZ, with decades of experience in various latex layer configurations.

Overall, nothing will replace your own experience, but the biggest suggestions I would advise is to not make too frequent changes, and when you do, tend to work in small steps toward a specific goal (i.e., firmer surface comfort, stronger deep support…).

If you have more specific questions, I’ll be happy to do my best to answer them.

Phoenix
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Review: Sleep EZ 13" latex bed + advice on layer stacking? 31 Jul 2017 17:44 #4

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LGO: Hahaha, no offense taken. I'm glad you see some of yourself in the ridiculousness of my situation, I'm sure I would be laughing if I also read a post like this. I don't want to dissuade you though -- my initial reaction to my current latex setup (S Talalay / F Talalay / M Dunlop / M-S Dunlop) is quite good ... I've got a crick in my neck, but it's otherwise very comfortable!

Phoenix:
So I guess question 1: any suggestions on what to do about a crick in my neck haha?
I've read that you need to change your pillow to accommodate a new mattress, but I'm not sure which direction I need to go -- bigger? smaller? firmer?

Comment 2: It's great to hear that the edges are a little softer because I have two plush layers, and perhaps when I swap to something firmer, the edges will improve.

Question 3: I would like to try and avoid more exhaustive layer swapping and testing if possible haha. Per your advice, I will try the current setup for a couple weeks before making any alterations. But while thinking about the next step -- I'm trying to understand -- how much of an effective are the lower core dunlop layers having on the current feel of my mattress? i.e. right now the bottom two dunlop layers are Medium (ILD ~32) and Medium-Soft (ILD 25) ... if I swapped these to Medium and Firm dunlop, do you think the mattress would feel much firmer? i.e. should I then think about swapping the second layer (firm talalay) down to a medium talalay? Or would they have more incidental effects? (such as affecting edge firmness without having a significant impact on the overall feel of the bed?)

Thank you!!

Thank you!!

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Review: Sleep EZ 13" latex bed + advice on layer stacking? 01 Aug 2017 08:55 #5

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Hi potpot,

So I guess question 1: any suggestions on what to do about a crick in my neck haha?
I've read that you need to change your pillow to accommodate a new mattress, but I'm not sure which direction I need to go -- bigger? smaller? firmer?


I can’t predict what pillow you would need, other than to point out that most lower cervical/upper thoracic issues tend to be pillow related, and you'll want to make sure that whatever you chose helps to provide a more neutral alignment and maintains that throughout the night. You’ll want to avoid too much flexion or extension, and if you change positions throughout the night (side to back, for example), some people prefer a pillow that is “shapeable”, such as down, natural fibers or shredded latex. I go into a bit more detail about pillows in post #13 here , and you might find that interesting. Loft, support, comfort and temperature regulation are also other factors to consider. There is also a pillow thread here that you may wish to peruse.

Comment 2: It's great to hear that the edges are a little softer because I have two plush layers, and perhaps when I swap to something firmer, the edges will improve.


Yes, you may notice a difference if overall the layers used are harder. But the edge in an all-latex mattress will never feel like that used in a typical innerspring product.

Question 3: I would like to try and avoid more exhaustive layer swapping and testing if possible haha. Per your advice, I will try the current setup for a couple weeks before making any alterations. But while thinking about the next step -- I'm trying to understand -- how much of an effective are the lower core dunlop layers having on the current feel of my mattress? i.e. right now the bottom two dunlop layers are Medium (ILD ~32) and Medium-Soft (ILD 25) ... if I swapped these to Medium and Firm dunlop, do you think the mattress would feel much firmer? i.e. should I then think about swapping the second layer (firm talalay) down to a medium talalay? Or would they have more incidental effects? (such as affecting edge firmness without having a significant impact on the overall feel of the bed?)


All of the layers of a mattress work in unison, but changes made closer to the sleeping surface of a mattress will be most noticeable. These layers will each compress to different percentages of their thickness depending on their position on the mattress, the firmness of each layer, the compression modulus of the material, the thickness of each layer, and the compression force that they are exposed to (which depends on the weight of the part of the body in contact with the mattress and the surface area that is bearing that weight which is constantly changing as you sink into the mattress more or change sleep positions). People tend to "feel through" the top layer more, meaning that you will feel the properties of the next layer down to different degrees. Even the softest latex won't "bottom out" (meaning it has no more ability to compress because the walls of the cell structure are fully compressed on top of each other) if it is on top of another foam layer and will have the ability to compress more yet even though very soft latex will compress to a much larger percentage of its thickness than a firmer layer. Every layer of a mattress affects and is affected by every other layer in the mattress to different degrees. This compression of each layer is what creates the pressure relieving cradle of a mattress in the top layers, which re-distributes weight and pressure on the bony prominences and pressure points of the body, while the resistance to further compression of the deeper layers is what "stops" the heavier parts of the body from sinking down too far and putting the spine and joints out of their natural alignment. The balance between the opposing needs of pressure relief and spinal alignment is the main factor behind all mattress design and theory.

Making changes as you suggested deeper in the mattress will be less noticeable in your initial comfort impressions, and more noticeable in deeper alignment, although a bit of a firmer overall impression will be noticeable. Going from a ‘medium” and “medium-soft” to “medium” and “firm” for the lower layers would tend to be a more common “progressive” design and would tend to provide better overall deep support.

Changing your second layer from a “firm” to a “medium” will have more noticeable results, although I think in your previous comments you thought that this was too soft for you. If you think that the transition from the “soft” upper layer to the “firm” is a bit too abrupt, you could try the soft-medium-medium-firm combination (changing up deeper support and upper layers, which is mixing a few variables at once, which does make it a bit more difficult to pinpoint the reasons for changes in your comfort preference), and I believe you already tried something similar, and you may wish to do the St-Md, 25d, Fd and see how that works. Another option, which I hinted at in my earlier reply, could be to try something along the lines of 25t, 25d, Md, Fd and see if you like the slightly firmer upper layers.

There really are quite a few different combinations, but I wouldn’t be changing things up just for the sake of change. Focus upon what you’re attempting to address (needing better deep support or a desire to change initial comfort) and address only that specific issue, manipulating as few variables as possible so that you may track your reactions logically to the changes you make. And while edge support is important, I wouldn’t rearrange layers to manipulate that variable, as doing so will change the overall comfort of your mattress, and you’d be prioritizing edge-feel over mattress sleeping comfort.

Phoenix
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Review: Sleep EZ 13" latex bed + advice on layer stacking? 16 Aug 2017 23:16 #6

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Phoenix - just want to say your suggestions were great!

1) Rolling the foam layers is actually substantially easier than trying to fold them over and pick them up. I'm still sweating quite a bit after re-ordering the 8 split layers by myself, but at least my back no longer aches. Thank you.

2) Also - being very conscientious about lining up the edges of each layer does also help with the firmness of the edge. The edge no longer collapses the way it did when I was a little less careful about lining up the layers.

3) Right now - we're sleeping on (L) Medium Talalay / Soft Talalay / Medium Dunlop / 25ILD Dunlop, and (R) 25ILD Talalay / Firm Talalay / Firm Dunlop / Soft Talalay.
I wish we had gotten some firmer layers, because our deep support layers are a little mushy.
But overall, we're definitely getting closer to the feel we like - we like both the Medium Talalay over Soft Talalay feel as well as the 25ILD Talalay over Firm Talalay feels ... the right side feels softer, though it's hard to tell how much of that is due to the upper two layers since the deeper layers are different.

Overall, I think both of us want something maybe slightly softer than the (L) side, and maybe slightly firmer than the (R) side. Do you think if I take what we have on the Right side, and replace the bottom soft Talalay layer with maybe a Medium Dunlop (or maybe even a Medium or Firm Talalay layer somewhere), that would have a significant enough effect that I could feel a difference?

Or alternately, would it make sense to take the Left side and go Medium Talalay => Soft Talalay => Firm Talalay => Medium Dunlop, or something like that? Any additional suggestions would be greatly appreciated!

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Review: Sleep EZ 13" latex bed + advice on layer stacking? 17 Aug 2017 07:04 #7

any suggestions on what to do about a crick in my neck haha?
I've read that you need to change your pillow to accommodate a new mattress, but I'm not sure which direction I need to go -- bigger? smaller? firmer?


Pillow preference is so personal. For myself I have always preferred a thin pillow because anything higher than 4" in loft gives me a sore neck. I recently went with a 2.5" foam pillow but may switch to a 3" latex pillow. If you are a side sleeper you may prefer lower loft. I sleep on my side and back and find the super thin loft to be great for me.

Personally it does change the feel of the mattress for me but again this is a personal anecdote you may be different.

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Review: Sleep EZ 13" latex bed + advice on layer stacking? 17 Aug 2017 13:57 #8

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Hi potpot,

Phoenix - just want to say your suggestions were great!


I’m happy for that!

1) Rolling the foam layers is actually substantially easier than trying to fold them over and pick them up. I'm still sweating quite a bit after re-ordering the 8 split layers by myself, but at least my back no longer aches. Thank you.

2) Also - being very conscientious about lining up the edges of each layer does also help with the firmness of the edge. The edge no longer collapses the way it did when I was a little less careful about lining up the layers.


Great feedback on those tips – thank you.

3) Right now - we're sleeping on [top to bottom:] (L) Medium Talalay / Soft Talalay / Medium Dunlop / 25ILD Dunlop, and (R) 25ILD Talalay / Firm Talalay / Firm Dunlop / Soft Talalay.

But overall, we're definitely getting closer to the feel we like - we like both the Medium Talalay over Soft Talalay feel as well as the 25ILD Talalay over Firm Talalay feels ... the right side feels softer, though it's hard to tell how much of that is due to the upper two layers since the deeper layers are different.

Overall, I think both of us want something maybe slightly softer than the (L) side, and maybe slightly firmer than the (R) side.


Changes in "comfort" will mostly be felt through manipulation of the uppermost layers, so in the configuration your currently have and what you expressed you’d like to achieve, I would swap the top layers of each side. This will result in a slightly softer surface comfort on the left side and a slightly firmer surface comfort on the right side.

Do you think if I take what we have on the Right side, and replace the bottom soft Talalay layer with maybe a Medium Dunlop (or maybe even a Medium or Firm Talalay layer somewhere), that would have a significant enough effect that I could feel a difference?


You probably would notice a difference, but it would be most noticeable for alignment purposes. I would try manipulating the upper layers first, and then make changes to the deeper support layers next.

Phoenix
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Review: Sleep EZ 13" latex bed + advice on layer stacking? 18 Aug 2017 00:19 #9

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This caught my attention. Was checking out sleeper ez site. Came across this site and read about this poor guy trying to figure out a configuration. I also am going crazy trying to figure out what I feel would be the most comfortable mattress. I give him credit, at least he ordered a mattress. I'm still doing research and trying to find a mattress store that would have comparable latex before ordering on line without even trying. I am a side sleeper have shoulder issues but do not want to sink into the bed but want some comfort for shoulder. I'm 5'5 and 145 lbs. If I understood correctly sleepez charges same price for all talalay or Dunlop and talalay. I am confused. Am also looking to go organic. Any help would be surely welcomed. Thank you

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Review: Sleep EZ 13" latex bed + advice on layer stacking? 18 Aug 2017 12:32 #10

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Hi Debbiec,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

Came across this site and read about this poor guy trying to figure out a configuration. I also am going crazy trying to figure out what I feel would be the most comfortable mattress. I give him credit, at least he ordered a mattress. I'm still doing research and trying to find a mattress store that would have comparable latex before ordering on line without even trying. I am a side sleeper have shoulder issues but do not want to sink into the bed but want some comfort for shoulder.


Trying to create your own DIY mattress (like potpot) can be quite a challenge, as I outline in post #15 here . Such projects should be entered into with more of a “spirit of adventure”, with satisfaction coming not only from the completed mattress, but the process itself, as it can be quite a challenge when purchasing foam pieces from various suppliers.

When you’re considering a component-style system, unless you have a large amount of experience with things such as mattress design (which would be very few individuals), I’ll recommend that you follow the guidance from an experienced mattress manufacturer (in your case, SleepEZ, a site member here, which means that I think highly of them) through a detailed phone conversation. You can relate things such as your specific needs, body type, pre-existing conditions, expectations, products you’ve tried and liked, etc., and they can take that information and using their expertise recommend a configuration in their offerings that they feel will provide you the best chance at success. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs, options, and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else, and at that time you can also inquire about any return/exchange options that a manufacturer/retailer may provide in case you purchase doesn’t turn out as well as you had hoped. Being able to exchange layers, and not the whole mattress, is one of the advantages of a component-style system.

If I understood correctly sleepez charges same price for all talalay or Dunlop and talalay. I am confused

.

Their “Natural Line” allows for combinations of blended Talalay or 100% Natural Dunlop. Their “Organic Line” allows for combinations of 100% Natural Talalay or GOLS-certified (Organic-certified) Dunlop. Talalay and Dunlop have different characteristics, and that again could be relayed to you when you phone SleepEZ in any configuration that they may recommend, and why they would have advised for a certain type and softness of latex within a specific configuration.

Am also looking to go organic.


Most people that are looking for an "organic" mattress or materials are usually concerned more with "safety" than whether the materials have an actual organic certification and they usually aren't aware that an organic certification isn't the same thing as a safety certification. There is more information about the three different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and some of the benefits of an organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different types of organic and safety certifications such as Oeko-tex, Eco-Institut, Greenguard Gold, C2C, and CertiPUR-US in post #2 here and more about some of the differences between organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and there are also some comments in post #42 here that can help you decide whether an organic certification is important to you for environmental, social, or personal reasons or whether a "safety" certification is enough.

Phoenix
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