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Dunlop vs Talalay For a Heavy Person 21 Mar 2017 07:57 #1

Thank you for the fantastic forum!

We are looking for an all natural latex mattress for a 300lb, 5’-10”, back and stomach sleeper. We are planning to buy online due to a better price, more options, etc., most likely from SleepEZ or Foam Sweet Foam (FSF). However, we tried several SavvyRest configurations in the showroom and we prefer the feel of all Talalay over Dunlop and Talalay combo. We understand that Dunlop has a better support factor but are wondering if we could maybe get away with 4 x 3” all Radium Vita Talalay as follows:

N7 / 32 ILD
N8 / 38 ILD
N9 / 44 ILD
N9 / 44 ILD

or

N7 / 32 ILD
N8 / 38 ILD
N8 / 38 ILD
N9 / 44 ILD

Alternatively, FSF recommended to go with Dunlop and Talalay for the top layer only:

Firm Talalay / 32 ILD
XFirm Dunlop / 38 ILD
XFirm Dunlop / 38 ILD
XXFirm Dunlop / 46 ILD

We are also considering adding an additional layer, if necessary. FSF offers a 5-layer configuration or we could add a topper to a SleepEZ 4-layer mattress. For the fifth layer / topper we are considering either 32 or 24 ILD Talalay or Talalay GL.

Please advise.

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Last edit: by Venexiana.

Dunlop vs Talalay For a Heavy Person 21 Mar 2017 12:41 #2

Hi Venexiana,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

We are looking for an all natural latex mattress for a 300lb, 5’-10”, back and stomach sleeper. We are planning to buy online due to a better price, more options, etc., most likely from SleepEZ or Foam Sweet Foam (FSF).

Both FSF and SleepEZ are site members here, as you’re probably aware, which means that I think highly of them and their advice, and I wouldn’t hesitate recommending them for your consideration. They both also have much experience with those in a higher BMI range.

However, we tried several Savvy Rest configurations in the showroom and we prefer the feel of all Talalay over Dunlop and Talalay combo. We understand that Dunlop has a better support factor but are wondering if we could maybe get away with 4 x 3” all Radium Vita Talalay.

Localized testing, especially with the special challenges of a higher BMI, is extremely valuable. Savvy Rest uses good quality natural Talalay from Radium. If it helps you in comparing what you may have tried in the showroom versus your own creation, the firm Talalay from Savvy Rest is generally around N8, and the medium is around N7. The soft is around N5, but from your configurations I don’t think you looked at anything using that layer.

There’s certainly no reason you couldn’t choose an all-Talalay mattress. The differences in compression modulus you spoke of will be less evident with higher ILDs, and also less evident in the lower support layers of the mattress. Both Talalay configurations you listed would certainly be in the firmer end of the spectrum, and generally provide enough layering for someone in your BMI range. Your first configuration would lean a little more toward a firmer “deep support”, but both would be supportive.

With the FSF, I always recommend to strongly consider the recommendations of a manufacturer, as they are best suited to put forward choices that they believe will give you the best chance at success, and what they present will also be combinations that they are most comfortable making with the componentry they offer. The FSF combination you presented would for most people have a firmer overall comfort than the similar ILD all-Talalay configuration you listed.

There’s a few posts that describe a similar situation to yours, specifically post #2 here and post #3 here (and the posts it links to ) that you may find useful.

You’re choosing between good quality materials, so I would lean toward what you’ve personally tested and liked and try your best to approximate that, as nothing can replace your own careful and personal experience. I would also make sure that you are completely aware of any company’s layer exchange/return policy, should things not turn out as well as you had hoped.

I’ll be interested in learning of your progress and any decisions you eventually make.

Phoenix
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Dunlop vs Talalay For a Heavy Person 21 Mar 2017 14:52 #3

Thank you for the prompt reply, Phoenix. It is very much appreciated.

Since all of the configurations presented previously seem to offer enough support for the weight, I think we would prefer to go with the softest option in all Radium Talalay
N7 / 32 ILD
N8 / 38 ILD
N8 / 38 ILD
N9 / 44 ILD

We'll go to the store again this weekend for one more test, just in case.

I read through the posts and links that you directed me to. Thank you. I understand the general principles regarding durability/longevity but would like to have a more concrete idea of what would be the actual durability/longevity difference between the preferred above configuration and the previous firmer configurations in our case? Is the durability/logenvity difference significant or negligible?

We actually did try a soft SavvyRest topper in ~N5 / 17.5 ILD Talalay but it seemed too soft. We like the idea of a softer topper on a firm configuration due to arthritic joints which is why we are considering adding the fifth layer or a topper.

For comparison, we currently use 3” Tempurpedic topper (general consensus seems to be that the Tempur material is 15 ILD, 5.34 lb/ft3). The topper seems to bottom out in the hip area but feels good on joints, knees etc. However, it sleeps too hot and can get uncomfortably hard on the surface if the room is colder (and we like to sleep in a colder room)…

Do you think ~N6 / 22-27 ILD Talalay or Talalay GL or Puralux as the fifth layer or topper would work considering our weight?

Alternatively, would doubling up on N7 / 32 ILD Talalay as a fifth layer or a topper soften the overall feel? If so, by how much?

Thanks again.

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Last edit: by Venexiana.

Dunlop vs Talalay For a Heavy Person 21 Mar 2017 16:14 #4

Hi Venexiana

Thank you for the prompt reply, Phoenix. It is very much appreciated.

You’re welcome.

I understand the general principles regarding durability/longevity but would like to have a more concrete idea of what would be the actual durability/longevity difference between the preferred above configuration and the previous firmer configurations in our case? Is the durability/logenvity difference significant or negligible?

Even the best engineers in the industry can’t predict mattress durability, as this is an incredibly complex question. But I have some good information in post #4 here and the posts that are linked therein. Between the two configurations you mentioned, I would expect them each to have a very similar “comfort life”.

We actually did try a soft SavvyRest topper in ~N5 / 17.5 ILD Talalay but it seemed too soft. We like the idea of a softer topper on a firm configuration due to arthritic joints which is why we are considering adding the fifth layer or a topper.

The uppermost layers will have the most dramatic impact on your perceived comfort, and as you mentioned you can always add a topper. Deferring toward alignment, as you are, is a good choice.

For comparison, we currently use 3” Tempurpedic topper (general consensus seems to be that the Tempur material is 15 ILD, 5.34 lb/ft3). The topper seems to bottom out in the hip area but feels good on joints, knees etc. However, it sleeps too hot and can get uncomfortably hard on the surface if the room is colder (and we like to sleep in a colder room)…

The feel of a memory foam topper will be quite different from latex, and the memory foam ILD can be misleading, as there are different protocols for measuring this and as you’re aware it changes with temperature and humidity.

Do you think ~N6 / 22-27 ILD Talalay or Talalay GL or Puralux as the fifth layer or topper would work considering our weight?
Alternatively, would doubling up on N7 / 32 ILD Talalay as a fifth layer or a topper soften the overall feel? If so, by how much?

An N6 topper certainly might be a good choice for you, and probably a better choice than the N5. The Puralux would have the slower recover properties of memory foam in a latex, and the Talalay GL (slow recovery) from Talalay Gloabal is no longer produced. Using a second layer of N7 would simply be a firmer surface feel as compared to the N5, and would be a choice if you were desiring a bit more of a “tight” or “crisp” surface comfort as compared to the N5. Two layers of the N7 would make the surface comfort a bit softer, but it wouldn’t be as noticeable as the N5. In the end, only your own careful personal testing will be able to tell which layer, if either, would be more appropriate. For your BMI, a 2"-3" topper would most likely be appropriate.

Phoenix
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Dunlop vs Talalay For a Heavy Person 21 Mar 2017 19:42 #5

Thank you, Phoenix. This is all very helpful.

I thought anything under 32 ILD is off limits to us due to our BMI. If we can use the N6 / 22-27 ILD as a topper or a top layer, that would be great.

It may be even better if we could skip the topper (they can be cumbersome and slide around) or an excessively thick mattress all together and do:
N6F / 27 ILD or N6S / 22 ILD
N7 / 32 ILD
N8 / 38 ILD
N9 / 44 ILD

Or are we pushing it and it is better to stick to the previous, firmer configuration?

Thanks again for your patience and excellent advice.

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Dunlop vs Talalay For a Heavy Person 22 Mar 2017 12:07 #6

Hi Venexiana,

I thought anything under 32 ILD is off limits to us due to our BMI. If we can use the N6 / 22-27 ILD as a topper or a top layer, that would be great.

Some manufacturers may advise those guidelines with their componentry, but there wouldn’t necessarily be a reason that you couldn’t use a topper in the upper-20s ILD range when combined with higher ILD materials beneath. I wouldn’t generally recommend an ILD in this upper 20 ILD range for the deeper support core for your application.

It may be even better if we could skip the topper (they can be cumbersome and slide around) or an excessively thick mattress all together and do:
N6F / 27 ILD or N6S / 22 ILD
N7 / 32 ILD
N8 / 38 ILD
N9 / 44 ILD
Or are we pushing it and it is better to stick to the previous, firmer configuration?

A good latex topper will tend to stay in place quite well due to its mass, non-skid covering commonly used on the bottom of the topper encasement, and the mattress pad/protector and fitted sheet being wrapped around both the mattress and the topper, so I wouldn’t have the “mobility” of the topper be a main concern in your decision-making process.

The best guidance I can give you would be to stay as close to the “specs” of the mattresses you’ve tested and have liked, and lean first toward good alignment and then perhaps tweak for comfort (if necessary). I generally would advise to stay closer to at least 12” or so for the base mattress for higher BMIs, as opposed to 8”-9” of some of the more common component latex mattress systems. Aside from your own personal testing results, I would tend to trust the advice you receive from knowledgeable manufacturers, as I mentioned in my earlier reply. If you decide to go with some of your original 12” configurations, there would be no contraindication to adding a 3” topper and having a resulting 15” mattress system for your application.

Phoenix
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Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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Dunlop vs Talalay For a Heavy Person 22 Mar 2017 16:20 #7

Thank you for great advice, Phoenix. We'll let you know how it works out. Thanks again.

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Dunlop vs Talalay For a Heavy Person 23 Mar 2017 08:16 #8

Hi Venexiana,

You're very welcome. I look forward to learning of your progress.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Dunlop vs Talalay For a Heavy Person 27 Mar 2017 18:08 #9

Progress update: based on our in store trials we definitely decided to go with the all natural Talalay. We prefer the feel of Talalay to Dunlop and are not bothered by the bounciness some people complain about.

The SavvyRest foam layers we played with at the store were marked with manufacturer’s markings and we were able to confirm that the SavvyRest soft is in fact Vita Talalay N5 while the medium is N7. We find N5 to be too soft while the N7 is too firm as a top layer so we think that N6S and N6F would be ideal.

However, SleepEZ does not carry all grades of Radium Vita Talalay (N3-N9 as specified here www.themattressunderground.com/media/kunena/attachments/66/NewRadiumILD1_2014-04-17.gif). They even called their supplier but are not able to special order N6 for us.

According to the FSF “Specifications of our Latex” at they seem to carry what may be the Vita Talalay N6 but FSF is about $500 more expensive even with a -$300 coupon.
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint:foamsweetfoam.com/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=30

Our plan B is to try switching to Talalay Global foam. We live an hour away from the Connecticut factory and they operate sort of a factory direct store www.kttenterprises.com/price-warranty-density-chart.html. I spoke to the owner today and we’ll be going there on Friday to try different configurations.

We also concluded that we would prefer a stretch knit cover as opposed to a woven fabric cover as used by SavvyRest. We are even contemplating a zippered stretch cover without (wool) quilting to get more direct Talalay feel. However, we are concerned about potential problems with the middle seam if we end up with a split top layer or with shifting layers due to less robust non-quilted cover material. Any advice?

So far we looked at the following sources for the cover:
www.mattresses.net/remaco1.html
www.sleepez.com/latex-mattress-components.html
www.supremequilting.com/mattress-covers-c1
www.idealquilting.com/
ADMIN NOTE:Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: sleeplikeabear.com/mattress_cover

Are there any other places that sell covers only?

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Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Removed Page Not Found Link (404 Error) and Updating link to https: status

Dunlop vs Talalay For a Heavy Person 27 Mar 2017 18:18 #10

I can confirm Phoenix's advice to my split top layer latex issues regarding proper assembly was spot on. I will provide a more in-depth review post in a few days of my Savvy Rest, but I will say, it is critical to have all latex layers lined up pretty much perfectly, including the casing, with that split top or you can definitely have some issues (I have the pics too for proof -- coming soon!)

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