>

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
The first place to start your research is the Mattress Shopping Tutorial
Select the Search Forum tab below to gain access to answers to many mattress related questions.
Select the Ask An Expert tab below to reach out to any of our Expert Members for guidance and advice.

Welcome to The Mattress Underground FORUM! :cheer:
  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2

TOPIC:

Mattress selection for low BMI's 12 Mar 2017 07:18 #1

  • Tali
  • Tali's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 6
I am trying to figure out what sort of mattress would allow for a good amount of sinking DOWN for someone with a current BMI of 22 (likely to go down to 21 or even 20 over the next year or so). I've been having lower back pains for a while, and from reading your analysis on the functions of a mattress I realized that while adding a 3" memory foam topper to my mattress has improved the comfort, it is not improving the differential support that I need as someone with much wider hips than waist - I sink down to the firm support layer (coils), and don't feel "properly aligned" regardless of the sleeping position I try.

I've been looking at latex mattresses, since I never loved the feeling of the memory foam, and the soft talalay latex sounds like the sort of thing that I would like for my comfort layer. I'm just unsure what to use for the support base. I've been thinking of using layers, with 5-6" of medium latex (Talalay and/or Dunlop), but I'm not sure if there's a good way to predict what might work best before actually sleeping on it. I understand that laying down on a mattress is the store is not necessarily the best predictor of the feeling at the end of the night, so I wonder if there's a better way.

Additionally, I just discovered this very budget-friendly mattress: wayfair.com/Brooklyn-Bedding-Ultimate-Dreams-10-Latex-Foam-Mattress-BKBD1031.html. It has 3" of Talalay, which is what I wanted, over 6" of 1.5 lb support foam. I realize that this foam would be considered a lower quality material, and likely a weak link, but I was wondering if there's a chance that it would be exactly the sort of support that would work for someone with my statistics. The manufacturer is Brooklyn Bedding, which is a member of this site, although probably not for this line of mattresses...

One last bit of information, my husband has a relatively low BMI too (currently 23, but slowly returning to his base 21), and he has spent most his life sleeping in a hardside waterbed - worked great for him, but was completely unbearable for me. So he loves the soft sinking feeling, although really he could probably sleep on anything (as long as it has a soft comfort layer).

I would appreciate any advice you could give me - I was trying to search for relevant topics, but find it hard to find ones that apply to my set of statistics. Thanks!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link of a former member

Mattress selection for low BMI's 12 Mar 2017 15:13 #2

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31963
Hi Tali,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

I am trying to figure out what sort of mattress would allow for a good amount of sinking DOWN for someone with a current BMI of 22 (likely to go down to 21 or even 20 over the next year or so). I've been having lower back pains for a while, and from reading your analysis on the functions of a mattress I realized that while adding a 3" memory foam topper to my mattress has improved the comfort, it is not improving the differential support that I need as someone with much wider hips than waist - I sink down to the firm support layer (coils), and don't feel "properly aligned" regardless of the sleeping position I try.

It sounds like you’ve been doing some reading on the forum – that’s excellent! You may have run across this article already, but just in case, there is some information about reasons for low back pain in post #2 here that may be helpful. The most common reason for lower back pain is a mattress that has comfort layers that are too thick/soft or a support core that is too soft. It’s possible that the support in your current mattress could be inadequate for you, and adding the memory foam just made it a “more comfortable” poor support. It could also be that adding too much memory foam on top allowed you to sink in too much to have poor alignment. It could also be that your current support core is too “firm” for you, and the transition from comfort layers to support is “too abrupt” for your preference. There really are a myriad of variables that could be involved. It’s good that you are tuned into having good alignment, as that is one of the keys for time spent in the deeper phases of sleep.

I've been looking at latex mattresses, since I never loved the feeling of the memory foam, and the soft talalay latex sounds like the sort of thing that I would like for my comfort layer. I'm just unsure what to use for the support base. I've been thinking of using layers, with 5-6" of medium latex (Talalay and/or Dunlop), but I'm not sure if there's a good way to predict what might work best before actually sleeping on it. I understand that laying down on a mattress is the store is not necessarily the best predictor of the feeling at the end of the night, so I wonder if there's a better way.

Latex certainly is a durable material that is supportive while being point elastic, and can allow for good alignment while still helping provide a good “comfort cradle” for your surface comfort.

While testing out a potential mattress in a store won’t necessarily tell you how you’ll feel in the morning, it will certainly tell you more than not being able to test out a product at all, and it is the most accurate and reliable indicator to see if you have an affinity for a particular type of foam, support system or combination. Attempting to predict how much you will like something by testing dissimilar products in person (for example, testing an innerspring mattress with polyfoam and 1” of latex and then attempting to apply that opinion as to how you might feel on an all latex mattress) is futile, but if you’re able to find local retailers offering all-latex products or combinations of pocketed spring and latex, it can give you a clear indication if you have a preference for one support system over the other, or not. If you provide you zip code, I’ll see if I am aware of any retailers in your area who might offer such a latex product.

Unfortunately, there is no algorithm that could possibly take into account the personal unknowns, individual body types, sleeping styles, personal preferences, somatotypes, health issues, differing masses, levels of fitness and flexibility.…you get the idea. Researchers have tried, but it’s just not possible. Post #15 here does talk a bit more about softness, pressure relief and alignment and how they relate and can be perceived differently by various individuals.

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range ... the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a "better/worse" choice ( see this article ). The best way to know which type of materials or which type of mattresses you tend to prefer in general terms will be based on your own testing and personal experience because different people can have very different preferences.

And when you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels and the options they have available to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Additionally, I just discovered this very budget-friendly mattress: www.wayfair.com/Brooklyn-Bedding-Ultimat...ttress-BKBD1031.html . It has 3" of Talalay, which is what I wanted, over 6" of 1.5 lb support foam. I realize that this foam would be considered a lower quality material, and likely a weak link, but I was wondering if there's a chance that it would be exactly the sort of support that would work for someone with my statistics. The manufacturer is Brooklyn Bedding, which is a member of this site, although probably not for this line of mattresses...

Brooklyn Bedding does make this item, and it would be considered a more basic, or “budget-friendly” item, you’re correct. I don’t know the density of the polyfoam used in the upper layer, but the 1.5 lb. polyfoam core is something I would only recommend in a more budget conscious purchase, and if you are comfortable with the potential trade-off in performance. With any online purchase, you’d want to be aware of the return/exchange policy, and with Wayfair it doesn’t seem that their mattress exchange policy applies to Brooklyn Bedding products, so you may wish to take that into consideration if considering this mattress. Brooklyn Bedding sells through other channels, like amazon, so you may wish to investigate that as well.

As far as appropriateness, I wouldn’t be able to predict if you would enjoy this item or if it would allow enough of a comfort cradle for you while still be able to provide adequate support, or if using a polyfoam support core would be personally preferable to a later or innerspring unit. That information can only be accomplished through your own personal testing.

In the end, I can’t predict what your husband might like based upon sleeping well on a waterbed (although it sounds as if he might more easily adapt to a surface you like, based upon the information you provided), any more than I would be able to predict what might be best for you, but I think you have a good start based upon some of your initial comments of knowing that you don’t like the feel or memory foam, and your idea of testing out latex in an upper comfort layer might be worthwhile to investigate.

You may have already read this, buy choosing the "best possible" mattress for any particular person really comes down to FIRST finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers (either locally or online) that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in (latex) that are in a budget range you are comfortable with and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then ...

1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial ) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP ... and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or "fine tune" the mattress and any costs involved if you can't test a mattress in person or aren't confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress you are considering relative to your weight/BMI range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

3. Comparing your finalists for "value" based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

If you test out any particular items locally, I’ll be interested in learning of your reaction and any questions you may have about them, or other more specific questions that you might have.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Mattress selection for low BMI's 12 Mar 2017 16:47 #3

  • Tali
  • Tali's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 6
Thanks for responding! I've spent the past few days obsessing over reading as many posts as possible, really impressed by the depth of your analysis.

It’s possible that the support in your current mattress could be inadequate for you, and adding the memory foam just made it a “more comfortable” poor support. It could also be that adding too much memory foam on top allowed you to sink in too much to have poor alignment. It could also be that your current support core is too “firm” for you, and the transition from comfort layers to support is “too abrupt” for your preference.


Yes, to all. We evaluated it today, against the diagram you liked showing spine alignment. There is definite hammock effect with the memory foam topper, which is better without it. But the support also doesn't have the right contour to my shape, even without the topper, and the pillow top of the mattress has gotten too soft to compensate for that. So we have confirmed that the current mattress situation definitely isn't working for me, and that I'm not just obsessing over mattresses for no good reason...

Found this quote of yours here :

It can also be from comfort layers that are too thin or firm or support layers that are too firm where the "gaps" in your sleeping profile (such as under the lumbar curve or waist) aren't being filled in and supported which can also allow the more recessed parts of the body to sag or "travel" too far.


THAT'S my biggest problem, and what I'm trying to solve. I've always just slept with an arm under my waist to deal with that... Mostly trying to figure out if that would be about the softness of the support layer, or the comfort layer, or some combination?

If you provide you zip code, I’ll see if I am aware of any retailers in your area who might offer such a latex product.


I'd appreciate it! My zip is 02476, and my main constraint is being able to make the trip to a store with 2 little ones... But you're right, it's definitely worth doing before making that decision, to lower the risk of having to deal with lots of returns. So, are there any good local distributes around me?

If you test out any particular items locally, I’ll be interested in learning of your reaction and any questions you may have about them, or other more specific questions that you might have.


Totally! It will have to wait until the weekend after next, for logistical reasons... That's why I've been wondering if it could be skipped. But it's ok, just leaves me with much more times for a lot more reading around here :-)

Thanks again!!

Tali

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Mattress selection for low BMI's 13 Mar 2017 10:32 #4

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31963
Hi Tali,

THAT'S my biggest problem, and what I'm trying to solve. I've always just slept with an arm under my waist to deal with that... Mostly trying to figure out if that would be about the softness of the support layer, or the comfort layer, or some combination?

You of course want enough comfort layers to help provide contouring to your surface (creating your comfort cradle), but it’s best to think of the mattress as a complete system, as all of the layers work in unison, and they will each compress to different percentages of their thickness depending on their position on the mattress, the firmness of each layer, the compression modulus of the material, the thickness of each layer, and the compression force that they are exposed to (which depends on the weight of the part of the body in contact with the mattress and the surface area that is bearing that weight which is constantly changing as you sink into the mattress more or change sleep positions).

My zip is 02476, and my main constraint is being able to make the trip to a store with 2 little ones...

Subject to first confirming that any retailer or manufacturer on the list that you wish to visit is completely transparent ( see this article ) and to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets your criteria and the quality/value guidelines here ... the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the larger Boston region are listed in post #2 here . There are quite a few options offering latex in one form or another. If possible, I’d suggest leaving the children with someone to allow to best devote your time to evaluating the mattresses, as I know that can be difficult if you’re having to monitor your children while also attempting to try out mattresses.

I’ll look forward to your updates!

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Mattress selection for low BMI's 13 Mar 2017 19:32 #5

  • Tali
  • Tali's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 6

it’s best to think of the mattress as a complete system, as all of the layers work in unison, and they will each compress to different percentages of their thickness depending on their position on the mattress, the firmness of each layer, the compression modulus of the material, the thickness of each layer, and the compression force that they are exposed to (which depends on the weight of the part of the body in contact with the mattress and the surface area that is bearing that weight which is constantly changing as you sink into the mattress more or change sleep positions).


Of course! I was forgetting that, but you're absolutely right, it's about the total compression. I'm wrapping my head around this slowly, the more I read around here.


I'm going to try visiting at least one place around here that has Talalay latex mattresses, but I'm thinking that I'm probably going to want to build my own... I'm thinking that I'd want the 14 ILD Talalay comfort layer, over a firmer layer. I realize that most people go with a 19 ILD layer as "soft", but I'm thinking that if there's anybody that the 14 ILD is appropriate for, I'm probably it... I was able to find an old post of yours saying that if you go softer at the top, you can compensate for it by going firmer underneath, so I'm currently leaning in that direction.

There was a post where you pointed someone to various sources for the 14 ILD, I found that several of them are unfortunately no longer in business... The ones I could find were "sleep like a bear", which has the Celsion Talalay in 15 ILD in addition to the regular blended in 14 ILD - I'm investigating now if that might be a good choice for me, to be worth the higher price. Besides that, I found this source: www.mattresses.net/qu3bltalamat.html, which seems like a reputable company that you like and is a good price, so that's where I'm leaning right now. I was thinking about getting a 14 ILD and a 32 ILD to test how the alignment works with just those two, and adding another 3" layer (a 28 or 36 or another 32) based on that. I realize that adding another layer is going to increase the overall compression even for the firmest of these, so my current solution is to try the 2 layers ( 14 and 32) of top of my firm (basic Wolf eco cloud) futon mattress. Does that sound like the silliest plan ever? I understand that another layer of latex would compress differently than the futon mattress would, because of how the layers interact, friction and such, but I was hoping to get enough of an idea of how the 14 interacts with the 32 based on that, and how much compression they're giving me.

I know, I know, it's better to go to a store and work with professionals... I'll probably contact someone at whatever source I'm most likely to order from, when I'm more ready (after I got to at least feel a latex mattress at a store). Until then, I'm basically trying to math it, to figure out as much as I can, come up with theories of how it should feel that I could then test, one way or another.

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Mattress selection for low BMI's 14 Mar 2017 10:01 #6

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31963
Hi Tali,

I'm going to try visiting at least one place around here that has Talalay latex mattresses, but I'm thinking that I'm probably going to want to build my own...

As you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components, then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project, the best approach to a DIY mattress is a "spirit of adventure" where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

I'm thinking that I'd want the 14 ILD Talalay comfort layer, over a firmer layer. I realize that most people go with a 19 ILD layer as "soft", but I'm thinking that if there's anybody that the 14 ILD is appropriate for, I'm probably it... I was able to find an old post of yours saying that if you go softer at the top, you can compensate for it by going firmer underneath, so I'm currently leaning in that direction.

The ILD range of 14-19 (ILDs are not exact numbers) are usually considered the most plush for Talalay latex. While you can “compensate” a bit with firmer layers underneath softer layers, pairing two very different ranges of comfort can create some quite uncomfortable mattresses. For example, you could create a mattress with 2” of ultra plush foam on top of an extra firm support core, and this bed would feel quite hard to most people (which is counterintuitive, I know), as the very plush upper layer would easily compress an this “compressed ILD” would not match well to the “initial ILD” of the firm layer beneath it, so the transition between the two layers would be quite abrupt and most people would tend to “feel through” the upper layer and feel more of the bottom firm layer. If you can provide a link to what you read regarding this “compensation” I can help to put it in better perspective for you.

There was a post where you pointed someone to various sources for the 14 ILD, I found that several of them are unfortunately no longer in business...

I found what I think is the post you are referring to (from 2013) and have made updates to it See post #6 here .

Besides that, I found this source: www.mattresses.net/qu3bltalamat.html , which seems like a reputable company that you like and is a good price, so that's where I'm leaning right now. I'll probably contact someone at whatever source I'm most likely to order from, when I'm more ready (after I got to at least feel a latex mattress at a store)

Mattresses.net is a site member here, and I wouldn’t hesitate to recommend them for your consideration. I would phone them when you are ready and use their expertise and advice to assist you with layering combinations.

I was thinking about getting a 14 ILD and a 32 ILD to test how the alignment works with just those two, and adding another 3" layer (a 28 or 36 or another 32) based on that

Adding a third layer to the two layer combination you would be testing would change the overall mattress system and you wouldn’t necessarily be able to predict what your alignment would be like with the three layer system based upon what you tested in the two layer system. You’d only be able to tell what your alignment was like, and if adequate, on exactly what you are testing.

I realize that adding another layer is going to increase the overall compression even for the firmest of these, so my current solution is to try the 2 layers ( 14 and 32) of top of my firm (basic Wolf eco cloud) futon mattress. Does that sound like the silliest plan ever? I understand that another layer of latex would compress differently than the futon mattress would, because of how the layers interact, friction and such, but I was hoping to get enough of an idea of how the 14 interacts with the 32 based on that, and how much compression they're giving me.

While not necessarily silly, it is not a common combination. My concern would be the same I have with any topper combination, in that you need to make sure you’re placing a topper on top of a product that is flat and firm and isn’t sagging or lacking in support. And the feel of your toppers on top of your futon will not be an accurate predictor of how the topper would feel upon another piece of latex, as the futon you described will have very different performance, compression modulus, elasticity and comfort characteristics to a piece of latex.

Until then, I'm basically trying to math it, to figure out as much as I can, come up with theories of how it should feel that I could then test, one way or another.

While knowing the specs that can affect the quality and durability of the layers and components in a mattress is always important, unless you have a great deal of knowledge and experience with different types of mattress materials and components and their specs and different layering combinations and mattress designs and how they combine together and can translate them into your own "real life" experience that can be unique to you (which would generally be a very small percentage of people), I would tend to avoid using complex specifications to try and predict how a mattress will feel or perform for you. When you try and choose a mattress based on complex combinations of specs that you may not fully understand or only based on specs for single layers or components that may not be as relevant or meaningful as you believe it is then the most common outcome is "information overload" and "paralysis by analysis". Even the best mattress designers in the industry are often surprised at what a mattress they design "should have felt like" based on the specs when they design it and what it "actually feels like" when they test out their new design. I understand what you’re attempting to accomplish prior to visiting any stores, but making comparisons based upon disparate componentry won’t provide you much meaningful information. Which again brings me back to my advice that nothing will b able to provide more meaningful information than your own careful personal testing.

Having said that ... you can see some general comments about the properties of an "ideal" mattress in post #4 here .

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Mattress selection for low BMI's 14 Mar 2017 12:49 #7

  • Tali
  • Tali's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 6
Here's the post with the soft over firm suggestion:
www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-forum/general-mattresses/284-have-settled-on-a-latex-but-now-need-recommendations.html#302

Would 3" of 14 ILD Talalay would not work over 3" of 32 ILD Talalay? Would 28 ILD layer under it work better? I was trying to extrapolate from your example of using 3" of 19 ILD over a 36 ILD core, trying to keep the proportions similar. But you're right, I don't want to feel the firm layer through the soft layer, so I want to make sure that they work together.

The reason I'm strongly considering the DIY approach is because, from my understanding, the feeling of the 14 ILD Talalay latex is unlike any other material - it's significantly softer than the 19 ILD, and it's bouncier (and more resilient) than a similarly soft memory foam (I never liked the feeling of memory foam...). Additionally, I'm not seeing ANY mattresses that use that level of softness for their comfort layer - they don't even have that as an option, the lowest I can find is the 19 ILD.
Ideally, I'd like to source 3 3" layers from mattresses.net (the 14 ILD and 2 other ones), and their mattress cover too - I suppose I could ask them if they'd build that for me? I really don't feel terribly adventurous here, I just happen to want a specific thing that I'm not seeing anywhere, and ideally I'd like to avoid getting it through a mattress topper (especially since the mattress cover has wool quilted into it, and it would be a waste to just bury it under a topper). I do, however, want the expertise that comes from trying things and seeing how they work, and while I didn't even know that "understanding mattresses" was even a thing until I discovered your website, now I absolutely must master that (not right away... but over time, I definitely want to). It's not just because I really care about my own sleep (which I do), it's also because I have to figure out appropriate mattresses for my kids as well, right now and as they grow. My 3-year-old girl has sleep trouble that seem very similar to mine, I've been suspecting that her mattress isn't working for her for some time now, so I'm currently planning to try finding a source for a crib-sized (toddler bed) soft latex mattress for her - officially they only offer the crib size in extra firm (for the newborn babies), so that would have to be a custom order too...

But anyway... you are right, I definitely can't predict how well a mattress would perform for me just by reading stuff (although I sure am going to try regardless!). So right now what I'm mostly hoping for is having as much knowledge and understanding as possible before going to the store, so that I'm clear on what exactly I'm testing, and what I expect it to be like, and can adjust my predictions based on what it's actually like. And your input so far has been invaluable in helping me do just that :-)

Thanks again for all your help!

Tali


EDIT: I just discovered KTT enterprises from one of your threads. They happen to be located about 20 minutes from my husband's family (whom we haven't visited in a very long time). Do you have any idea if we could check out latex mattresses over there, rather than at a "regular store"? They basically carry what I was looking for, so if they'd be willing to let me test various configurations over there, that would be the most optimal solution for me, and would totally be worth the trip. Should I contact them to ask?

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Tali.

Mattress selection for low BMI's 14 Mar 2017 15:26 #8

  • phoenix
  • phoenix's Avatar
  • Offline
  • Administrator
  • Administrator
  • Posts: 31963
Hi Tali,

Here's the post with the soft over firm suggestion:
www.themattressunderground.com/mattress-...mmendations.html#302

Whoa! You went WAY back there – 2011. Thanks for the link.

Drilling down to the basics, taking out all of the terminology…

If you’re using a thick enough soft upper comfort layer to provide the majority of your comfort (let’s just say 3” for ease of comparing) and that would be enough to allow for your curves, then you can probably go with a bit firmer support core.

If you go with a thinner plush comfort layer, it may not allow for enough conformation to your curves, so you’ll have to match that up with a bit of a softer support core to allow it to “bend in” a bit more and help supply enough surface comfort.

These are two different ways to achieve a similar result. That’s the gist of it.

Would 3" of 14 ILD Talalay would not work over 3" of 32 ILD Talalay? Would 28 ILD layer under it work better? I was trying to extrapolate from your example of using 3" of 19 ILD over a 36 ILD core, trying to keep the proportions similar. But you're right, I don't want to feel the firm layer through the soft layer, so I want to make sure that they work together.

It could work, but you would only know after testing the combination in person. The examples I was giving from that old post were more illustrative and not meant to necessarily be taken as hard "standards".

The reason I'm strongly considering the DIY approach is because, from my understanding, the feeling of the 14 ILD Talalay latex is unlike any other material - it's significantly softer than the 19 ILD, and it's bouncier (and more resilient) than a similarly soft memory foam (I never liked the feeling of memory foam...).

Latex is very resilient, versus memory foam, which is the opposite. You’d feel more of the resilience with Talalay versus Dunlop latex, and the 19 ILD will feel more resilient than the 14/15 ILD. Your own testing, in whatever combination, will tell you if you like the feel that much better than memory foam, or if you notice a significant difference between the 15 and 19 ILD.

Additionally, I'm not seeing ANY mattresses that use that level of softness for their comfort layer - they don't even have that as an option, the lowest I can find is the 19 ILD.

Some finished products (like the Beautiful from Pure Talalay Bliss) will use 15 ILD latex in the upper layer, but many manufacturers have gone away from the ultra plush 15 ILD in favour of the 19 ILD for comfort and comparative durability increases.

Ideally, I'd like to source 3 3" layers from mattresses.net (the 14 ILD and 2 other ones), and their mattress cover too - I suppose I could ask them if they'd build that for me?

I would phone them (versus attempting to configure online) and tell them exactly what you are attempting to accomplish, and they’ll assist you with recommendations for their layers and the appropriate cover for your final finished thickness. They should be very easy to work with.

I do, however, want the expertise that comes from trying things and seeing how they work, and while I didn't even know that "understanding mattresses" was even a thing until I discovered your website, now I absolutely must master that (not right away... but over time, I definitely want to). It's not just because I really care about my own sleep (which I do), it's also because I have to figure out appropriate mattresses for my kids as well, right now and as they grow.

As long as you’re comfortable with the potential learning curve with creating your own design, I agree that your own testing will be the most accurate guidance.

My 3-year-old girl has sleep trouble that seem very similar to mine, I've been suspecting that her mattress isn't working for her for some time now, so I'm currently planning to try finding a source for a crib-sized (toddler bed) soft latex mattress for her - officially they only offer the crib size in extra firm (for the newborn babies), so that would have to be a custom order too...

You may have read this already but just in case you haven't, there is more information in post #2 here and the topics it links to about mattresses and children and "suitable" and "safe" materials. There are some general guidelines for mattress styles and firmnesses for children in post #2 here . It also includes a number of links to the better forum posts and topics about mattress and children as well which have more information about many good options children which would be well worth considering.

Many of the site members listed in post #21 here will create custom sized latex mattresses, but you’ll have to phone them to get specifics for sizes like toddler.

But anyway... you are right, I definitely can't predict how well a mattress would perform for me just by reading stuff (although I sure am going to try regardless!). So right now what I'm mostly hoping for is having as much knowledge and understanding as possible before going to the store, so that I'm clear on what exactly I'm testing, and what I expect it to be like, and can adjust my predictions based on what it's actually like. And your input so far has been invaluable in helping me do just that

Thanks again for all your help!

I think you’re doing a great job and I’m looking forward to learning about your actual results once you get a chance to test out some of your configurations.

EDIT: I just discovered KTT enterprises from one of your threads. They happen to be located about 20 minutes from my husband's family (whom we haven't visited in a very long time). Do you have any idea if we could check out latex mattresses over there, rather than at a "regular store"? They basically carry what I was looking for, so if they'd be willing to let me test various configurations over there, that would be the most optimal solution for me, and would totally be worth the trip. Should I contact them to ask?

I would phone them and explain your situation. They are in an industrial park and I’m not sure what areas they night have to accommodate your request, but it would be worth asking.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Mattress selection for low BMI's 14 Mar 2017 16:22 #9

  • Tali
  • Tali's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 6

Whoa! You went WAY back there – 2011. Thanks for the link.


Actually it was just your post following the recommendations to good mattress stores in MA... I kept reading down the thread, for my learning :-)

Some finished products (like the Beautiful from Pure Talalay Bliss) will use 15 ILD latex in the upper layer


Just looking that one up, the ILDs were not mentioned on the website... I've seen several sites that don't mention that information, so I just assumed that it's the default 19 ILD. That's definitely useful to know, though I must say that their prices are waaaaay outside of my price range...

I think that my next step would be to contact KTT, to find out if we could visit their factory and check out configurations, or anything else of that sorts. That would be my ideal solution, if I could work directly with them. Otherwise, I'd go the route I planned before I discovered them (go to the nearest store to check out Savvy Rest - which is also way outside my price range), then expect to experiment with layers a bit...

I did actually find that KTT offer a 24 ILD Talalay too, so I was thinking that it might be a reasonable intermediate layer under 2" or 3" of 14 ILD, and I could put something much firmer (like 36 ILD) under it. I haven't seen the 24 ILD anywhere else, but it should be perfect for my purposes, so that's another reason for me to try to work directly with them.

I haven't actually started digging too much into the kids mattresses yet... But my toddler is currently sleeping on an overly soft memory foam, so I'm thinking that anything I'd get would be an improvement (she also had a soft 1" memory foam topper since she was 7 months or so, which worked fine over a very firm base, so I'm thinking that as long as the mattress has the right support, I am not worried about "too soft" for her with regard to safety). I'll investigate the kids mattresses once I'm done reading the 20 other open tabs I have from this forum for my adult mattress studies :-) (At some point I will start feeling like I'm closing more tabs than I'm opening, but I'm definitely not there yet....)

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Mattress selection for low BMI's 15 Mar 2017 07:04 #10

  • Tali
  • Tali's Avatar Topic Author
  • Offline
  • Junior Member
  • Junior Member
  • Posts: 6
The more I read, the clearer the importance of "field studies" becomes... I'll make it a priority to visit a couple of local stores before even trying to make any decision. I'll let you know once I have more data.

Thanks again for all your guidance!

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

  • Page:
  • 1
  • 2
The Mattress UndergroundCopyright © 2022 The Mattress Underground
TheMattressUndergounf
TMU
TheMattressUndergounf