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Pain BETWEEN Pressure Points for Side Sleeper 18 Jan 2017 07:59 #1

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Hi,
We recently purchased the Alexander from Nest Bedding. We are about 60 days into our 90-day trial period but don't like the "sinking" feeling. So, recently my husband and I visited Quality Sleep Shop about 50 miles from our home. As soon as we walked in the door, the owner, Tim greeted us and quickly sized us up as side-sleepers (we're both small - I'm 5'1' and 100 lbs., he's 5" 7" 140 lbs. - both athletic builds) pointed us to his "Emily" beds - latex hybrid mattresses.

We spent over an hour testing them out and finally decided on the firmer Emily. The one we received was much firmer than the one we tried in the store. They sent us (at no charge) a "topper" - basically 1" of bare blended latex. While it was more comfortable, my problem is (and I haven't seen this addressed elsewhere): My entire side feeling like one big pressure point! I get pain BETWEEN my shoulders and hips from the foam that DOESN'T sink in pressing up hard against my ribcage and waist. Also pain BELOW my hip along my upper thigh. (it's also sleeps very warm). I like to sleep halfway between my side and my stomach with the knee that is on top up and bent, and the lower leg straight. Now with either bed, I can't do that due to pressure pain all along my side and thigh. This actually was a problem with the Nest Alexander and now the Emily. Any suggestions????

Our previous mattress was a 10-year-old Sealy Posturepedic innerspring that had sunken in body impressions. While I had lower back pain, I never experienced anything like the discomfort from both of these mattresses. We travel quite a bit and I'm wondering why hotel beds are so much more comfortable, with no "breaking in" period. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Signed, "Tired".

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Pain BETWEEN Pressure Points for Side Sleeper 18 Jan 2017 15:44 #2

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Hi lnov,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

We recently purchased the Alexander from Nest Bedding. We are about 60 days into our 90-day trial period but don't like the "sinking" feeling.

I’m sorry your mattress isn’t working out as well for you as you would have liked, but at least you did have the foresight to purchase something with a good exchange/return policy. You didn’t mention which Alexander model (Hybrid or Signature) or which comfort designation you chose, so I can’t comment on this as compared to the other new mattress you’ve chosen.

So, recently my husband and I visited Quality Sleep Shop about 50 miles from our home. As soon as we walked in the door, the owner, Tim greeted us and quickly sized us up as side-sleepers (we're both small - I'm 5'1' and 100 lbs., he's 5" 7" 140 lbs. - both athletic builds) pointed us to his "Emily" beds - latex hybrid mattresses.

As you’re probably aware, Quality Sleep Shop is a member here and I think highly of their knowledge and componentry.

We spent over an hour testing them out and finally decided on the firmer Emily. The one we received was much firmer than the one we tried in the store.

It is quite common for a new mattress to be firmer than the showroom model. There will be a break in period as the mattress loses any of its "false firmness" and the cover stretches and loosens a little and your body gets used to a sleeping surface that is different from what it is used to (see post #3 here ). This would typically be a few weeks but it can be shorter or longer depending on the specifics of the person and the mattress.

They sent us (at no charge) a "topper" - basically 1" of bare blended latex. While it was more comfortable, my problem is (and I haven't seen this addressed elsewhere): My entire side feeling like one big pressure point! I get pain BETWEEN my shoulders and hips from the foam that DOESN'T sink in pressing up hard against my ribcage and waist.

While it's not possible to "diagnose" mattress comfort issues on a forum with any certainty because they can be very complex and there are too many unique unknowns, variables, and complexities involved that can affect how each person sleeps on a mattress in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP or any "symptoms" they experience ... there is more about the most common symptoms that people may experience when they sleep on a mattress and the most likely (although not the only) reasons for them in post #2 here , post #6 here and post #3 here .

Using my “theory at a distance” goggles, what you’re describing would be typical of a mattress that has a surface comfort that is too firm and doesn’t allow for enough of a “cradle” when sleeping on your side. Being too firm, the hips and shoulders would bear most of the weight and there would be a lateral curve in the lumbar/lower thoracic region. While these areas would still be in contact with the mattress, again the “stretching” from the lateral curve and lack of cradling with to firm of a surface comfort could create and uncomfortable total side surface sensation. Also your comments about a bit more comfort being achieved with only 1” of latex (unknown type and ILD) would “generally” lead to the conclusion of too firm of a surface comfort as well. But this is of course a guess.

Also pain BELOW my hip along my upper thigh. (it's also sleeps very warm). I like to sleep halfway between my side and my stomach with the knee that is on top up and bent, and the lower leg straight. Now with either bed, I can't do that due to pressure pain all along my side and thigh. This actually was a problem with the Nest Alexander and now the Emily. Any suggestions????

So you really don’t sleep on your side, but half rotated, with characteristics of a prone and side sleeper combined. Discomfort in the outer thigh area, (I’m guessing on the leg that is in contact with the mattress) often comes from two issues. First is when the hips sink in too deeply into the mattress, stretching the tensor fascia latae/iliotibial band complex, especially if this is tight, which is common among both active and inactive individuals. The second common cause of this pain is when a mattress is a bit too firm on the surface, and with the added weight of the upper leg upon the lower leg that is in contact with the bed and effectively “pressing” it into the mattress, this can create discomfort for not providing enough pressure distribution. I can’t speak to the Alexander mattress, as I mentioned earlier I don’t know the configuration and model you had. You can see if you think either of these two scenarios make logical sense in your particular situation.

Regarding temperature, the Emily uses a pocketed spring unit with 1” of 1.8 lb. polyfoam, 1” of 14 ILD latex (I don’t know if it is Dunlop or Talalay) and 1” of 1.5 lb. polyfoam in the quilt. All of these foams tend to be quite breathable materials. In very general terms ... the materials, layers, and components of a sleeping system that are closer to your skin will have a bigger effect on airflow, moisture transport, and temperature regulation than materials, layers, and components that are further away from your skin and softer mattresses or foam toppers will tend to be more "insulating" and for some people can sleep warmer than firmer versions of the same material.

There is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range. Also, your mattress pad/protector can also dramatically affect mattress surface comfort.

We travel quite a bit and I'm wondering why hotel beds are so much more comfortable, with no "breaking in" period. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

Hotel mattresses in general tend to be on the “firmer” end of the spectrum, and then using top of bed products added plushness is achieved. These products of course have a breaking in period, but unless you were in a hotel with a new mattress on one side of the room and an older one on the other side, you wouldn’t be able to recognize this. When a hotel mattress feels better than your mattress at home, it’s usually a sign that your current mattress is worn out, as opposed to the high quality or appropriateness of the hotel mattress for use every night at home (most of which would be a poor choice due to their lower quality componentry that most of them use due to their frequent need to be changed out).

It could be a possibility that you still have a bit of “learned alignment” of sinking in from your old mattress, but after two months away that normally would be the case. Everything you seem to be describing with your current mattress “seems” to be pointing at something that is too firm on the surface. There is a 60 day comfort guarantee with Quality Sleep Shop, so you do have some time to analyze the product and see if it gets better. In the meantime, you may wish to contact them and let them know that the topper they sent made a bit of difference but you still think that you need a bit more plushness and see if they would send you out a thicker piece to experiment with.

I’ll look forward to your progress and feedback and you go through your process.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Pain BETWEEN Pressure Points for Side Sleeper 19 Jan 2017 12:43 #3

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Thank you for your quick and thorough reply, Phoenix! I neglected to mention that the Nest Bedding Alexander model we purchased is their Signature-Medium. While it seemed soft, we felt that we sank too far down into it and didn't like the "stuck-in-the-sand" feeling. Still, I got "push-back" pain in my torso, sleeping on my side.

With the Quality Sleep Shop's "Emily" mattress and 1" topper they sent (the material in this mattress is blended latex, they told me), it feels comfortable at first and I'm able to fall asleep but it feels as if it "bottoms-out" after awhile and I'm sleeping on pavement with push-back pain in my torso and upper thigh.

One of your members dazra bit.ly/2iGAl1L who had an Emily mattress recommended this latex pillow from Sears bit.ly/2jt4NJv . I picked it up yesterday and it did help relieve some of the torso and thigh discomfort I had - but not all of it. The pillow is very comfortable and bouncy but it sleeps higher than my previous gel-memory foam pillow so my neck was a bit sore. I thought that I slept through the night but feel very unrested today.

I have a call in to Quality Sleep Shop to see if they have any recommendations. They have a Kathryn mattress that is supposed to be softer. I hope I can find a solution otherwise I might be going the "hotel bed" route since I have none of these issues sleeping in hotels on business or even on our 12-day Panama Canal cruise! Thank you again for all that you do.

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Pain BETWEEN Pressure Points for Side Sleeper 19 Jan 2017 15:00 #4

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Hi lnov,

Thank you for your quick and thorough reply, Phoenix!

You’re most welcome.

I neglected to mention that the Nest Bedding Alexander model we purchased is their Signature-Medium. While it seemed soft, we felt that we sank too far down into it and didn't like the "stuck-in-the-sand" feeling. Still, I got "push-back" pain in my torso, sleeping on my side. With the Quality Sleep Shop's "Emily" mattress and 1" topper they sent (the material in this mattress is blended latex, they told me), it feels comfortable at first and I'm able to fall asleep but it feels as if it "bottoms-out" after awhile and I'm sleeping on pavement with push-back pain in my torso and upper thigh.

It still sounds as if you’re looking for something with a bit more plush contouring resilience in the upper layers, and layers that match and “bend into” each other more gradually. I certainly wouldn’t hesitate to visit Quality Sleep Shop again and use their advice, either testing out your current mattress with a thicker latex topper or perhaps seeing what other configurations they come up with or suggestions for a different model.

One of your members dazra who had an Emily mattress recommended this latex pillow from Sears.

Just like recommendations for a mattress, I wouldn’t use someone else’s opinion on a pillow as a reliable source of information or applicability to your own situation. It is true that many lower cervical/upper thoracic issues can be related to your pillow, and most people keep their pillows for far too long, but I wold hold off if you could on getting a new pillow until you can get your mattress situation figured out, as your pillow choice will largely be determined by your mattress, your sleeping style and how you sink into your new mattress.

I’ll look forward to your updates after your next visit to QSS.

Phoenix
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Pain BETWEEN Pressure Points for Side Sleeper 25 Jan 2017 15:47 #5

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Visited QSS for the second time (100 mile round trip). My salesperson wasn't there only the mattress production manager and their were several people in the store. We spend about 1.5 hours trying the various mattresses with and without toppers again but didn't receive much personalized attention or suggestions for the comfort issues we're having. Just told to take another topper home which we did - a 2" one this time (they wanted us to return the 1" one).

After 3 nights on the 2" blended latex topper, there is an improvement in the "bottoming out" feel - resulting in less hip pain. but still sore just below hips when I get up in the morning. The torso push=back pain is only somewhat relieved if I sleep on a high pillow - too high for the comfort of my neck. And again, getting the sinking feel that we really don't like in all that foam. It also contributes to sleeping warm. It's almost as if the blended latex topper is too soft to provide support while the mattress itself is just too firm to provide comfort.

While we were there we tried the Katherine soft and medium beds and the Natural Escape Latex mattresses which, they said, were essentially the same mattresses with the Katherine's coils being tighter from being encased in foam on the outside and the Katherine's quilted top. Both seemed very comfortable yet supportive. It's difficult to tell how they would feel for eight hours at a time. Our next step may be to exchange for one of these or just return and start over. We are so uncomfortable. I would take my old mattress back in a heartbeat.

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Pain BETWEEN Pressure Points for Side Sleeper 25 Jan 2017 16:38 #6

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Hi lnov,

Thanks for your update.

Visited QSS for the second time (100 mile round trip). My salesperson wasn't there only the mattress production manager and their were several people in the store. We spend about 1.5 hours trying the various mattresses with and without toppers again but didn't receive much personalized attention or suggestions for the comfort issues we're having. Just told to take another topper home which we did - a 2" one this time (they wanted us to return the 1" one).

Sometimes smaller sleep shops/manufacturers can get overwhelmed with just a few people and it’s normal for many to have only one person on hand. If I was making a special trip I would call ahead and either schedule an appointment or make sure any person with whom you wished to visit was working during your expected arrival to maximize your time. And I would expect they’d eventually want the toppers back, which you could probably arrange if you end up selecting a different mattress.

After 3 nights on the 2" blended latex topper, there is an improvement in the "bottoming out" feel - resulting in less hip pain. but still sore just below hips when I get up in the morning. The torso push=back pain is only somewhat relieved if I sleep on a high pillow - too high for the comfort of my neck. And again, getting the sinking feel that we really don't like in all that foam. It also contributes to sleeping warm. It's almost as if the blended latex topper is too soft to provide support while the mattress itself is just too firm to provide comfort.

Your analysis is probably correct – you personally desire a little more surface support and a little less deep down firmness. The plushness of the toppers provided might be too soft for your liking, and even if they were a bit firmer they may not work to your satisfaction with the firmer comfort of the mattress beneath them. The extra comfort from using the thicker latex topper points toward this.

While we were there we tried the Katherine soft and medium beds and the Natural Escape Latex mattresses which, they said, were essentially the same mattresses with the Katherine's coils being tighter from being encased in foam on the outside and the Katherine's quilted top. Both seemed very comfortable yet supportive. It's difficult to tell how they would feel for eight hours at a time. Our next step may be to exchange for one of these or just return and start over.

The Katherine comes in different ILDS of latex, so you would be able to choose something with a bit more “surface firmness” than what you have right now using your toppers, and you’d be a bit less “in” the mattress than “on” it. There isn’t a listing for the Natural Escape on their web site, so I can’t comment upon that. At least you have the option to make a change, so that’s a good thing.

Phoenix
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Pain BETWEEN Pressure Points for Side Sleeper 25 Jan 2017 18:00 #7

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"Your analysis is probably correct – you personally desire a little more surface support and a little less deep down firmness. The plushness of the toppers provided might be too soft for your liking, and even if they were a bit firmer they may not work to your satisfaction with the firmer comfort of the mattress beneath them."
Thank you for putting it concisely - that's exactly what I was trying to convey. Do you think that a 3" latex hybrid (the Katherine bed) might provide that or would a gel-or memory-foam type bed or latex-combo be a better choice. The Natural Escape mattress is from their sister site's "My Green Mattress" organic line that is available online and on Amazon www.mygreenmattress.com

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Pain BETWEEN Pressure Points for Side Sleeper 26 Jan 2017 10:43 #8

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Hi lnov,

Thank you for putting it concisely - that's exactly what I was trying to convey.

You’re welcome.

Do you think that a 3" latex hybrid (the Katherine bed) might provide that or would a gel-or memory-foam type bed or latex-combo be a better choice. The Natural Escape mattress is from their sister site's "My Green Mattress" organic line that is available online and on Amazon www.mygreenmattress.com
The number one rule is that only you can feel what you feel and I can’t recommend a product for someone online – I can only assist in “how” to choose.

Going back to your original post, you don’t like to “sink in” to a product, so a typical memory foam style of mattress would typically be in that category, so you may wish to put those styles of mattresses lower on your list.

Also going back to your original post, you chose a “firm” mattress in the Emily, and the one you received was even firmer than the showroom model, so even with a topper you’re on something that you describe as a bit too hard right now.

Between the Katherine and the Natural Escape, the Natural Escape uses 3” of plush (18-22 ILD) Dunlop latex, which would tend to feel a bit firmer than the same ILD of Talalay. The innerspring unit is a pocketed coil unit and zoned in the middle third. The Katherine also uses 3” of latex, but it is Talalay, and you can choose from 24, 32 or 40 ILD. I would find out the ILD of the toppers you’ve been provided and consider going with something just a bit higher in ILD. I’m thinking that your topper might be in the upper teens. The pocketed coil innerspring unit is also zoned in the middle third, but it is a slightly lower spring count (assuming they are quoting for the same size).

Based upon your comments it is reasonable to assume that both of the mattresses will do a better job at providing a bit of a more “surface support” and will not feel quite as “firm” deep down. Which one may or may not be best for you would be again up to you and your own personal testing. At least you have a good idea of what doesn’t work for you, which sometimes is just as valuable as knowing what does work.

Phoenix

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Last edit: by phoenix.

Pain BETWEEN Pressure Points for Side Sleeper 19 Feb 2017 11:32 #9

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A very frustrating update. Visited QSS earlier last week to try the Katherine latex mattress AGAIN. It felt very comfort for the 15-20 minutes I tried it - much better than the Emily one we had (which we had added their topper to). AND I could use a lower pillow instead of the super-high one I'd been using to relief the pressure on my torso - yay!
Deciding between the Katherine soft or medium, Tim said if I was still having hip/thigh discomfort on their Emily mattress with the topper, the Katherine Medium would likely not be any better and strongly advised me to go with the soft. The Katherine is advertised as Talalay latex online and in the store but when I asked about specifics , he said it's actually a "very nice" Dunlop latex. Now I'm confused but needs some relief so paid the extra $750. Tim gave us free delivery since they were going to be in the area in lieu of the Mattress Underground discount on the higher-priced bed.

The Katherine was delivered yesterday much to my jubilation - couldn't wait for a good night's sleep! The mattress felt great and I fell asleep right away. Several hours later, felt like I was sleeping in a trench, with so much pressure on my torso that I went back to the high pillow. When that didn't relieve the mattress pressing against my side, I finished out the night on the couch (cushions are a thick, firm foam - very comfortable - no sinking, no push-back torso pain). I really am at a loss - Do we just find a cheap foam mattress? I thank you so much for this forum. Hopefully, my experience may help someone else.

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Pain BETWEEN Pressure Points for Side Sleeper 19 Feb 2017 15:01 #10

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Hi lnov,

I’m sorry you’re still not finding a product that is comfortable. :(

It seems that you describe issues in two areas – hip and torso.

The initial softness of the products you’re trying seems to agree with you, but as the night goes on it “seems” as if you’re describing that you’re sensitive to the feel on your torso. As these foams are not temperature sensitive, they’ll feel the same in the middle of the night as they do when you first lie down. So it still may be an issue, as I mentioned previously, that you need a bit of a firmer feel on the surface but then a bit of plushness below, and maybe a bit more padding material overall (to minimize a bit what you might be describing of the “push back” of the innerspring unit). Or perhaps you don’t like the resilience of latex, and would be happier with polyfoam for a comfort material. Or maybe you would prefer a mattress that doesn’t use innersprings but instead a support core of latex or polyfoam. You may wish to go back to trying a mattress more along the lines of the traditional product you had previously and try to recreate something like that using quality materials.

Unfortunately, as I stated previously, I really can’t diagnose with “theory at a distance”. I wish I had better suggestions for you than these general “averages”.

Phoenix
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