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Help! Need a topper. In so much pain 08 Jan 2017 18:35 #1

  • susiebmck
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5 years ago we bought a king Pure Latex Bliss Pamper. We wanted something non-toxic and got a good deal on the floor model. Within a week or two we added a 2" PLB topper bc the Pamper was just too firm. I typically sleep on my back and have not had any issues with the bed until recently. My husband is a side sleeper and has been complaining about back and shoulder/chest pain for a while. I'm now pregnant and having to sleep on my side and OH MY GOSH, it hurts. We're both awake several times through the night with hip, tailbone, back, shoulder pain. And its gotten worse for him, too. We literally are not sleeping bc of this bed. I spoke with one salesperson that mentioned latex getting firmer over time. It also looks like our topper is all of a sudden worn out. The mattress itself seems to still be in good shape (no dips or sags that we could see). We just made the mistake of buying too firm. So I'm looking to replace the topper in hopes of finding some relief. Particularly interested in the Savvy Rest Vitality. It's a 3" soft natural Talalay. I believe the Pamper has 6" of firm and 2" of "comfort" for pressure relief. My husband and I are both small-average people. Not pregnant I'm 5'3, 135 lb. He's 5'8, 140 lb. He's a side sleeper. I'm side to back. Would love anyone's thoughts on the situation and the Vitality. Thank you!!

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Help! Need a topper. In so much pain 09 Jan 2017 09:12 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi Susiebmck,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

5 years ago we bought a king Pure Latex Bliss Pamper. We wanted something non-toxic and got a good deal on the floor model. Within a week or two we added a 2" PLB topper bc the Pamper was just too firm. I typically sleep on my back and have not had any issues with the bed until recently. My husband is a side sleeper and has been complaining about back and shoulder/chest pain for a while. I'm now pregnant and having to sleep on my side and OH MY GOSH, it hurts.

You are correct, the Pamper is a firm mattress, and if you sleep on your side, which you’ve switched to now, you certainly would start to notice that firmness. It uses their “firmest” core (around 40 ILD Talalay versus their "normal" 36 ILD)) with 2” of 21 ILD Talalay on top. The 2” topper you added (assuming it is the PTB ultra plush) would be around 15 ILD Talalay, and at 2” would offer “a bit” more plushness. People who need “quite a bit” of extra plushness usually choose to go with 3” of ultra plush Talalay.

I spoke with one salesperson that mentioned latex getting firmer over time.

Foams tend to soften over time with use, not get firmer. Only at the point of extreme aging with oxidation and UV exposure will it tend to feel firmer, on the outside layers first.

We just made the mistake of buying too firm. So I'm looking to replace the topper in hopes of finding some relief. Particularly interested in the Savvy Rest Vitality. It's a 3" soft natural Talalay.

This topper is 3” of 100% NR Vita Talalay from Radium. It is Cradle to Cradle Gold certified. It rates out at approximately a Talalay Soft (N5) rating at a range of 15-20 ILD. If you had the Vitality next to a 3” of the Ultra Plush Pure Talalay Bliss topper, the Vitality has bit more of a “dense” soft feel. The covering on the Vitality is organic certified knit; the covering on the PTB is 98% polyester, 2% elastin.

The Vitality certainly uses very good quality materials, but I would place it in the higher-price category and I’d tell you to make some careful value comparisons with other similar items that are available. Many of the members listed in post #21 here offer toppers using similar, if not the exact same foam used in the Vitality at a more affordable price.

If you do end up purchasing a new 3” topper, make sure that you keep your 2” topper. You may wish to use that on top of the 3” if you need some extra cushioning while sleeping on your side during your pregnancy, and then perhaps go back to using only a 3” topper. It’s nice to have the configurability options.

I’ll look forward to what you decide to do and your results.

Phoenix
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Help! Need a topper. In so much pain 09 Jan 2017 09:35 #3

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Thank you so much for the response and suggestions! I've had a hard time moving past Savvy Rest bc it's such a reputable brand. But looking at that list I already see a few others that are intriguing. I'm particularly concerned with using a latex that is not blended with synthetics or uses chemicals. It does not necessarily have to be covered in organic cotton. Where would you steer me within that list for a comparable product? Thanks!

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Help! Need a topper. In so much pain 09 Jan 2017 14:26 #4

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Hi susiebmck,

Thank you so much for the response and suggestions!

You’re very welcome.

I'm particularly concerned with using a latex that is not blended with synthetics or uses chemicals.

All latex contains some chemicals to complete the foam creation process. This may be more information than you are looking for, but, here is information about the three different levels of organic certifications in post #2 here and some of the benefits of an organic certification in post #3 here and there is more about the different types of organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and more about some of the differences between organic and safety certifications in post #2 here and there are some comments in post #42 here that can help you decide whether an organic certification is important to you for environmental, social, or personal reasons or whether a "safety" certification is enough. All of the latex you’re likely to encounter will have some sort of a testing certification for VOCs and harmful substances such as Oeko-TEX, and I personally wouldn’t have a concern using a natural, blended or synthetic latex topper.

Where would you steer me within that list for a comparable product?

The best suggestion I would have is the list I previously linked to you of the members of the site, many of whom offer Talalay latex toppers in the “ultra plush” range. There is also a link to different topper suppliers in post #2 here . I don’t keep a list of which companies carry latex from which manufacturer, as they often change and it’s really not the focus of this forum. I would tell you to place a phone call to any company in which you have an interest and tell them you are considering a topper like the Vitality, and they will be able to tell you which item they have that would most closely approximate that item. Just as an example, you can see on a site like SleepEZ on their topper page that they offer toppers that are Dunlop and Talalay, in soft, medium and firm, and they also list that they offer latex from Radium, which is where the Savvy Rest Talalay comes from. You could phone them with your information and see what they have to tell you regarding their products. It’s quite simple, and I always recommend a phone call versus an online chat or email, as it’s easier to get more complete information in a short amount of time.
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Phoenix
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Help! Need a topper. In so much pain 17 Jan 2017 07:58 #5

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Ok, so after going through the list that was linked for latex sources we went with a Sleeping Organic topper. They're regional to us and offered free fast shipping and were super helpful on the phone. We ended up with a 3" Organic Dunlop Soft topper which has a rating of 18-22 ILD. So it's been a week and we are still waking up with shoulder and hip pain and tossing and turning a bunch. We're on a Latex Bliss Pamper base (40 ILD base and 21 ILD comfort layer). Do we need ANOTHER softer layer? Help please, we need some comfortable sleep.

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Help! Need a topper. In so much pain 17 Jan 2017 14:03 #6

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Hi susiebmck,

Ok, so after going through the list that was linked for latex sources we went with a Sleeping Organic topper. They're regional to us and offered free fast shipping and were super helpful on the phone.

Sleeping Organic is a member here, which means that I think highly of them and their advice. I’m happy they were helpful to you on the phone.

We ended up with a 3" Organic Dunlop Soft topper which has a rating of 18-22 ILD. So it's been a week and we are still waking up with shoulder and hip pain and tossing and turning a bunch. We're on a Latex Bliss Pamper base (40 ILD base and 21 ILD comfort layer). Do we need ANOTHER softer layer? Help please, we need some comfortable sleep.

I’m sorry your new topper doesn’t seem to be providing you enough comfort yet. In choosing the plush Dunlop, you “effectively” duplicated the upper layer of the Pamper mattress. I know the ILDs are different, and you’re using a Dunlop topper versus Talalay in the Pamper, but the “overall” range of plushness is similar.

While I can’t feel what you feel and can’t recommend a specific combination or style of comfort layer via an online post, it certainly may be that you desire a bit more surface comfort on top of your mattress and this topper was either not plush enough (low enough ILD) or there wasn’t enough plush material (not thick enough) for your personal PPP.

You could consider changing your current topper to Talalay in the plush or ultra plush range, but I don’t believe that there is an exchange option for your product. If you’re keeping your existing topper and after more time you find that you desire more plushness, it is possible that another 2” or so of a plush or ultra plush Talalay might provide you extra comfort.

Did you at least notice that the overall combination was more comfortable for you with the topper on the mattress as opposed to sleeping on the mattress without the topper?

One other thing you may wish to check is the orientation of the foam inside of your topper cover. If it is a 3” core of Dunlop (as opposed to a slit piece), it can feel a little softer with the “slightly dimpled” surface facing upward. I don’t know if this is the style that you have, but It’s worth checking.

Overall, I’d see if you could try out the toper for another few weeks, but if you can’t, the best advice I can offer is the general “theory at a distance" I listed previously.

I’m interested to hear what you end up deciding to do or if I may help with more specific questions.

Phoenix
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