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Zenhaven Mattress 20 Feb 2019 15:20 #61

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Thank you!! It has certainly been an unexpected ordeal. Who knew?

I too will be happy to talk up whatever company winds up working for me! It is great when you've been through the ringer to have someone outstanding to refer to. And good to know some of those quality issues in shipping and such have improved.

I appreciate your thoughts on going with the medium over the plush...especially since I have the 1.5" inch topper, it would be easier to make it a smidge plusher if needed—and good reminder about the break in and softening up. Looks like they rate the medium as being on the softer side, anyway. It is nice they can just swap the top if needed. It's too bad they don't have a way to replace the top layer...it seems like that part would break down first.

I am curious about the durability of this bed in general. The store clerk kid (who was adorably helpful) I spoke to on the phone yesterday quoted me a lifespan of 15 years, which I found a little funny since the company hasn't even been in business that long ... and I think TMU lists even the best mattresses as only guaranteed for 10 years before going into "bonus time." It seems like it would be a slightly lower timeframe than the Zenhaven, but the tradeoff to comfort might be worth it.

I am curious...do the "buttons" (for lack of a better term...divots...gathers...) in the cover bother you? I tried the Brooklyn Signature in store and it had a similar top, which did feel a bit weird to me, at least initially.

Thank you!

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Zenhaven Mattress 20 Feb 2019 16:16 #62

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Who knew, indeed.

Regarding the "divots" in the bed, we haven't really noticed them at all - and we're the types to notice something like that (another thing that bugged us about the Avocado mattress was their buttons...we definitely felt those painfully on our shoulders). We don't notice the divots when we resting on the Nest mattress - either on the side or on the back - and my sense is that they may help with airflow. If they were initially noticeable, we've long since forgotten they are there.

And if it were us, we'd go with the Medium version if we were planning on using a 1.5" topper. The Plush mattress would likely be too soft if the 1.5" topper were also used. And you might not even need the topper with the Medium. Can't say for sure, but that's our guess.

As for durability, if we get a good 7-10 years out of this mattress, we'd be satisfied. It is rated at 15+ years, which could be aggressive. But again, our old polyfoam pillowtops usually lasted at least 6-8 years, and this mattress seems better constructed than those

What we also like is essentially Nest Bedding's dual guarantee - there's the lifetime mattress warranty AND the lifetime comfort guarantee. Even if the mattress warranty isn't eligible, you're still eligible to buy another mattress from Nest Bedding at half the cost. To us, that's pretty solid coverage - and something that really isn't offered elsewhere. Could Nest Bedding no longer be around in 10-15 years? Maybe. But then you're probably not investing in storefronts, either, if you're planning a short stint in the mattress business. Nest Bedding seems to be in the game for the long haul, so that gives us even more piece of mind.

The reality is, too, if we had gotten a brand-name mattress from a traditional big-box store, with unknown materials/quality, our mattress likely would have lasted 2-4 years at best - and we would have paid about what we got with our Nest Bedding mattresses. The dual guarantees with Nest Bedding, along with their investment in the industry, made it an easy decision - especially given how comfortable their Natural Hybrid Latex mattress is.

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Zenhaven Mattress 20 Feb 2019 17:04 #63

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Hi sweet,

Also, we had a chance to look at Brooklyn Bedding's Bloom Hybrid Latex mattress that you mentioned. The "divots" that appear on the Bloom Hybrid are quite a bit different than what is found on the Nest Bedding Natural Hybrid Latex mattress. The Bloom ones seem more pronounced, whereas they are much more subtle on the Nest version. The Nest version likely has a softer feel to the cover, too.

Also, Bloom Hybrid mattress seems more in line with Nest Bedding's former hybrid mattress - using the wool/cotton cover. Again, that design felt a lot firmer than current Natural Hybrid Latex version. We wouldn't view the Bloom Hybrid as comparable to the Natural Hybrid Latex. It would be closer to the Nest Bedding Organic Hybrid Latex mattress. But even then, the Nest Bedding Organic Hybrid Latex mattress seems to have a better cover with less-pronounced divots.

Aagain, in our experience, we much prefer the overall feel of the Nest Bedding Natural Hybrid Latex mattress when it comes to contouring support. No shoulder pain with the EcoFlex/cotton stretch cover, and no noticeable discomfort with any parts to the cover. It all blends together nicely, and we don't feel like we're pushing through the soft comfort layer...only to hit the Dunlop latex layer. The mattress layers really work together nicely, too - providing a uniform feel (rather than disjointed one).

Hope that helps....

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Zenhaven Mattress 20 Feb 2019 17:20 #64

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Such good points! I'm going to have another call with them tomorrow and hopefully get into a detailed chat about the soft vs. medium for my weight and preferences. I fluctuate between 134-139. I really ONLY sleep on my side, although I do sometimes snooze a tad on my stomach when I have time in the morning. I'd rather not use the topper...4.5" of comfort layering seems excessive and like it might mess with support. And it does make sense to remember that the showroom reps and even dubious online reviewers are testing brand new beds, not broken-in versions.

I've also wondered if the softest latex always "feels" like the softest, since you sink through it more and interact with the transition materials...

I'm curious, since you had the talalay version at one point, did you notice a difference between the two latexes, or was it too buried under the eco flex and wool?

I was originally shopping for the long haul but at this point I suppose I'd be alright with 7 years. I like the idea of swapping components to get 10-15, but I also wonder...don't things just get kinda gross in there after awhile? Also, while I like the idea, the reality is...who knows. I could get married to a mattress salesman who already has an amazing bed at this point and not need it! :P

I liked the warranties too, even though they aren't as extensive as the Zenhaven's. (Which are quite good. I've already used it once!) I was a little confused what the 50% was for...like if you loved the mattress and 10 years later just wanted another one, you can buy one? Or it's more like if you don't love the mattress but are past your trial...

I wonder if they'll honor it in 10 years...I hope! That would be a great deal.

I am very much leaning towards this as my next option, as it fits with the PPP I've outlined for the most part. It's not quite as "green" or latex-y as I thought I wanted, but fufilling those requirements didn't work as anticipated, and I think it makes sense for a next low-risk step *as I am far from the reputable companies and dealing with illness*. I am very daunted by the layer-bed building process as it seems like there are so many variables and potential swaps and cover alterations and more expensive return fees, not to mention just switching the layers around to try combos is rough for a chronically ill patient.

If I were closer and/or able-r, I think I'd go the bed-building route. It sounds like you really get a personalized product in the end that can be modified as life changes, which is dreamy.

But, I can try this, and if it happens I can be happier with a less expensive bed, great! If not, then hopefully a layer swap will do it...and if truly not, then their return policy is certainly generous, and I can steel myself to the latex bed building process after I've confirmed that all-latex truly is my preference.

My only wish is that 100% talalay was still an option...I wonder if there's another manufacturer I've missed who does a stretch cover over 3" of latex and pocket coils at under 2k. I'm in San Diego this weekend and *so* bummed I won't have the chance to visit Mattress Makers, as their showroom looks so beautiful and their products do too! If I could try them in person I'd consider the higher price point, but not at a distance.

Thank you for all your help and opinions! I know it's very subjective but it does help to at least confirm some of the details with a non-invested 3rd party.

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Zenhaven Mattress 20 Feb 2019 17:27 #65

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Thank you, just saw this second note! I actually wasn't able to try it here, but thank you for the comparisons! I was able to try the Signature and wonder if the divots there would be similar to the Bloom. They were pronounced.

The Signature also had a "dead" feel where the foam didn't push back much and "bottomed out"...I liked the alignment but not the lack of resiliency. There was almost a hammock-type affect of widespread pressure across my whole side. Not pressure-points so much as just...pressure. I'm hoping the Nest Hybrid Latex would have a bit more of that latex push-back. It's my favorite part of latex!

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Zenhaven Mattress 20 Feb 2019 17:52 #66

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It's interesting - we had the same experience that you did when we found out that the new version of Nest Bedding's Natural Hybrid Latex was using Dunlop instead of Talalay. We were kinda disappointed, and initially wished the Talalay option were available. Having slept on the Natural Hybrid Latex for almost three months now, we don't miss the Talalay. Again, it's tough to describe accurately - it simply feels "just right".

It's interesting, too - with the previous Nest Bedding Hybrid Latex (the wool cover one), we felt the layers more. It would be soft at first - and then we'd hit/feel a firmer layer. With the current Natural Hybrid Latex version, the layers seem to flow better together. There's no "hitting a firm layer" feeling - or that dead feeling that you described with the Signature. It provides that nice latex bounce, with just enough cushioning from the EcoFlex layer (rather than being too stiff with compressed wool).

And no matter what ILD we tried on the former Hybrid Latex (the Talalay/wool one), our shoulders still felt sore. It simply wasn't as comfortable. We haven't had any pain/discomfort issues with the current Natural Hybrid Latex. Not even a "we wish it was a little more of this or that". It feels like the mattresses that we grew up with and used to enjoy.

And true - the Natural Hybrid Latex is not quite as natural as some other stuff out there, but we haven't had any issues with it. We're huge natural/organic/environmental-impact people, yet we also want to get a goodnight's sleep as well. The 100% stuff (wool cover, etc.) was simply too firm/stiff for us. The Natural Hybrid Latex hit the sweet spot without being too much of a compromise.

As for Nest Bedding's lifetime comfort guarantee, the 50% kinda covers both bases. Either you liked the mattress, but you're kinda ready for a new one - or the mattress doesn't quite feel the way you originally liked it, and it's past the trial period, so time to try something else instead. As their site puts it - "This program is in place simply because we want our valued customers to continue to achieve the great night sleep that they've been getting with their Nest Bedding mattress." Our sense is that it's like joining the Nest Bedding family - once you're a part of their family, they'd like you to stay a part of their family, and they're backing that up with their guarantee.

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Zenhaven Mattress 21 Feb 2019 18:20 #67

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Thank you! This is encouraging. I am struggling to pull the trigger as my "dream" was to get it all as nontoxic and eco-friendly as possible. But, I've often had that dream in other areas of life and been let down...natural shampoo that wrecked my hair, natural cleaners that my Mom threw out one visit in a snit about their efficacy (warranted!), natural deoderant that scared off my colleagues... ;) Maybe it's time to learn I'm not quite cut out to be as crunchy as my aspirations...

I do wonder if the compression modulus of talalay is what's causing my shoulder pressure. I've got a narrow bony little shoulder and maybe it just shoots down in there and firms up too fast. I want to blame the cover, but honestly I noticed pressure even when on raw latex at the shop.

Thank goodness this trial ends soon and I will be forced into choosing something or other! In the end, I can probably learn to sleep on just about any more or less supportive thing... especially if it isn't $2,000 like the Zenhaven setup, which actually cost more than my car (!) and is the most expensive product purchase I've ever made for myself.

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Zenhaven Mattress 22 Feb 2019 13:04 #68

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Makes sense, sweet. We had a similar hesitation before getting the Natural Hybrid Latex from Nest Bedding regarding the eco-friendly factor. But having slept on it for almost three months now...comfortably with no off-gassing, etc...it's something we're no longer worried about. Again, we feel the "Natural" in the mattress title is legit enough to be called that. And given how sensitive my wife is to scents, etc. - she'd be all over it if it weren't. Nice, too, having a quality mattress that doesn't break the bank.

One other thing to note is that Talalay latex in general isn't 100% natural - it's typically a blend (often 30% natural latex & 70% synthetic), so that's perhaps something to factor in as well. Even if you go the Talalay route, you're still not getting a truly 100% natural product.

You might be on to something with the compression modulus of Talalay latex - or latex in general. We couldn't really get sustained comfort resting on the Talalay latex for any extended period of time. There was still a bit of that pressure sensation to it as it becomes compressed. We certainly got that from the Dunlop in the Avocado mattress, too. We haven't had any of that with the EcoFlex comfort layer in the Nest Bedding Natural Hybrid Latex mattress at all.

And it's interesting - I was just wondering last night if I was somehow overhyping the mattress. Is it really as good as I've been claiming it is? And then as soon as I was resting on it again, I had that "Aaaahhhh, this is fantastic" experience all over again. It's such a comfortable mattress to rest/sleep on.

We wish you all the best in whatever route you end up going. We simply hope your mattress quest comes to a comfortable resolution soon. And don't hesitate to let us know if you need anything else or have any other questions....

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Zenhaven Mattress 22 Feb 2019 21:23 #69

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Thank you NestHaven! You've been more than helpful. :)

I actually like "pushback" factor from talalay, but not the high pressure my shoulder seems to hit...maybe it's not possible to have it both ways. When I got the pressure dialed down, it was from sinking through two layers of hyper-light talalay and was a jiggly floofy mess. Even now, the bed is starting to feel too soft (in the sense of giving way, my hips feel lower than my shoulders) but too hard (not firm, hard from pressure) at the same time.

Fibro is a beast...you should see my shoe shopping attempts...! It just makes you sensitive to every little change. But, I think spending this much money might have made me oversensitive, too...

Thank you for all your help!

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Zenhaven Mattress 23 Feb 2019 09:50 #70

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Our pleasure, sweet - and fibro is no joke, indeed...hence why we're happy to help. :)

And we should have been more clear in our last post (which we've since edited). It's not the pushback of the Talalay (or latex in general) that was the issue for us. We, too, like how it bounces back and responds so quickly (unlike memory foam, which has that "dead" feeling you previously described). It's that we've found latex by itself (and especially with a taut cover) to provide too much pressure on our shoulders/hips as it becomes more compressed. That pressure build-up is the "pushback" that we were originally referring to.

That's one of the things that we really appreciate with the Nest Bedding Natural Hybrid Latex design - it's resolved that issue. The EcoFlex comfort level provides the right contouring support without the pressure build-up. And like you noted with the hyper-light Talalay layers (where things become too soft), the Dunlop underneath the EcoFlex comfort layer prevents us from sinking in too much into the mattress, so there's no "jiggly floofy mess" feeling to it.

It's really a smart design. Nest Bedding has constructed a mattress that essentially blends the best aspects of latex and foam, without the downsides of each. So, we're getting the nice bounce back aspect of the latex without the pressure build-up, and we're getting the contouring comfort of the foam without bottoming out with it. And again, the way the layers are constructed with this mattress, there's no feeling of hitting a wall when we get to the Dunlop layer. The layers perfectly blend and complement each other, providing a maximum comfort & support experience.

The other great aspect of the mattress, like we've discussed, is also not having to go through different configurations and swap-outs to get that just-right layer blending. It's already there right out of the box. Given what you're describing with your current mattress set-up (too soft, yet too firm), I'm thinking you might like the Medium version of the Natural Hybrid Latex - as it's just soft enough without being too soft, while also being supportive enough without being too firm. Again, if the Medium proved to be too firm still after a break-in period, you could always swap out for the Plush. Just a thought....

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Last edit: by NestHaven.
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