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Help Choosing a Bed 29 May 2016 07:10 #1

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We are in the market for a new mattress. Our current mattress is a 2001 10" Supple Pedic 4500. The sales guy said he'd rate it a medium soft in comparison to today's mattresses.
The layers are:
Top: 4.5" memory foam
Middle: 2" lever system
Bottom: 3.5" base layer

Here are some things about my husband and me.
1. We like a firmness of 3-4.
2. Foam
3. Cooling is somewhat important.
4. 70-80% back, 20-30% side.
5. Under 1K
6. King
7. Me: 145, Husband: 160

We laid on some mattresses today and found the Tempur Flex Supreme to be our favorite with the Serta icomfort Savant III Plush a close second.

Thanks in advance:)

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Help Choosing a Bed 29 May 2016 07:49 #2

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Hi kgreen3,

Welcome to the site ... and I'm glad you found us :)

We are in the market for a new mattress. Our current mattress is a 2001 10" Supple Pedic 4500. The sales guy said he'd rate it a medium soft in comparison to today's mattresses.
The layers are:
Top: 4.5" memory foam
Middle: 2" lever system
Bottom: 3.5" base layer


I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but just in case you haven't read it yet ... the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

There is more information in post #9 here about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one. Every layer and component in a mattress (including the cover and any quilting materials) will affect the feel and performance of every other layer and component and the mattress "as a whole" so unless you are able to find another mattress that uses exactly the same type of materials, components, cover and quilting, layer thicknesses, layer firmnesses, and overall design (which would be fairly unlikely) then there really isn't a reliable way to match one mattress to another one in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP based on the specifications of the mattresses (even assuming that you can find out all the specifications you would need for both mattresses you are comparing in the first place).

Mattress manufacturers generally try to differentiate their mattress from the mattresses made by other manufacturers and don't normally try to "match" another mattress that is made by a different manufacturer so unless a manufacturer specifically says in their description of a mattress that one of their mattresses in the same general category is specifically designed to "match" or "approximate" another one in terms of firmness or "feel" and PPP and/or they are very familiar with both mattresses and can provide reliable guidance about how they compare based on the "averages" of a larger group of people that have compared them (different people may have very different opinions about how two mattresses compare) ... the only reliable way to know for certain how two mattresses would compare for you in terms of how they "feel" or in terms of firmness or PPP (regardless of anyone else's opinions of how they compare which may be different from your own) would be based on your own careful testing or actual sleeping experience on both of them.

Here are some things about my husband and me.
1. We like a firmness of 3-4.
2. Foam
3. Cooling is somewhat important.
4. 70-80% back, 20-30% side.
5. Under 1K
6. King
7. Me: 145, Husband: 160


While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... I don't make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

We laid on some mattresses today and found the Tempur Flex Supreme to be our favorite with the Serta icomfort Savant III Plush a close second.


The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (and the major retailers that focus on them as well) regardless of how they may feel in a showroom along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

One of the most frustrating parts of mattress shopping can be spending time testing a mattress and finding out that you like it and that it's a good match for you in terms of firmness, "feel" and PPP only to find out that the mattress contains low quality materials and/or that information you need to identify any lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress or make meaningful comparisons to other mattresses isn't available and you've wasted the time you spent testing the mattress.

You can see some comments about the Tempurpedic Flex Supreme in post #2 here . While it may be a good "match" for you in terms of "comfort, firmness, and PPP ... like all the Tempurpedic mattress I certainly wouldn't consider it to be a good value choice when there are so many other mattresses that use the same or better quality materials that may be just as good a "match" for you and are in much lower budget ranges.

While it's not possible to quantify the sleeping temperature of a mattress for any particular person with any real accuracy because there are so many variables involved including the type of mattress protector and the sheets and bedding that you use (which in many cases can have just as significant an effect on sleeping temperature as the type of foam in a mattress) and on where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range and because there is no standardized testing for temperature regulation with different combinations of materials ... there is more about the many variables that can affect the sleeping temperature of a mattress or sleeping system in post #2 here that can help you choose the types of materials and components that are most likely to keep you in a comfortable temperature range.

In very general terms memory foam can tend to sleep warmer for than other types of foam materials that are used in the upper layers of a mattress.

If you let me know your city or zip code I'd also be happy to let you know about the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in your area.

Phoenix
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Help Choosing a Bed 29 May 2016 08:02 #3

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We are in Denver. I am in the process of reading all you have suggested. I am comfortable buying a mattress online as long as the return policy is painless. I thought I had already learned a fair amount and now I feel very overwhelmed. Thanks for your help.

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Help Choosing a Bed 29 May 2016 08:13 #4

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Hi kgreen3,

We are in Denver.


The better options or possibilities I'm aware of in and around the Denver area (subject to making sure that any mattress you are considering meets the quality/value guidelines I linked in my last reply) are listed in post #2 here .

I am comfortable buying a mattress online as long as the return policy is painless.


If you are considering online options as well then the mattress shopping tutorial includes several links to lists of many of the better online options I'm aware of (in the optional online step) that include many different types and categories of mattresses in a wide range of designs, budgets, firmness levels, and with different return/exchange policies that would be worth considering.

I thought I had already learned a fair amount and now I feel very overwhelmed. Thanks for your help.


Sometimes "unlearning" some of the misleading or inaccurate information that is so common in the industry and that unfortunately many consumers have come to believe can be more difficult than learning the information you really need to know to make the best quality/value choice.

In its simplest form ... choosing the "best possible" mattress for any particular person really comes down to first finding a few knowledgeable and transparent retailers and/or manufacturers that sell the types of mattresses that you are most interested in and that you have confirmed will provide you with the all the information you need about the materials and components inside the mattresses they sell so you will be able to make informed choices and make meaningful comparisons between mattresses and then ...

1. Careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in the tutorial) to make sure that a mattress is a good match for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP ... and/or that you are comfortable with the options you have available to return, exchange, or "fine tune" the mattress and any costs involved if you can't test a mattress in person or aren't confident that your mattress is a suitable choice.

2. Checking to make sure that there are no lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress relative to your weight range that could compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

3. Comparing your finalists for "value" based on #1 and #2 and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
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Help Choosing a Bed 29 May 2016 14:49 #5

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Thanks, Pheonix. Do you have a link to your recommended online mattress retailers? We are looking at Brooklyn Bedding, Nest Bedding, and Voila.

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Help Choosing a Bed 29 May 2016 16:53 #6

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Hi kgreen,

Do you have a link to your recommended online mattress retailers? We are looking at Brooklyn Bedding, Nest Bedding, and Voila.


Both Brooklyn Bedding and Nest Bedding are members of this site and I recommend the members here "as a group" because I believe that they all compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency.

Having said that ... there are also many other sources of good quality/value mattresses as well that aren't members of this site (at least yet).

Unfortunately the Voila mattress doesn't list the specifics of the materials and components in their mattresses so I wouldn't consider them unless they can provide you with the information here so you can confirm there are no lower quality materials or weak links that would compromise the durability and useful life of their mattress. There have been several forum members that have tried to find out this information from Voila and been unsuccessful and if a retailer or manufacturer either isn't willing or able to provide you with the information you need to make an informed choice and make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses ... I would avoid them completely. They are also made in China and there is always some additional risk and uncertainty involved in buying a mattress that is made in China or other imported mattresses that may be subject to longer periods of compression during shipping and storage that can sometimes affect the durability and useful life of the mattress (see post #6 here ).

I don't make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial)or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

As I mentioned in my last reply ... If you are considering online options then the mattress shopping tutorial includes several links to lists of many of the better online options I'm aware of (in the optional online step) that include many different types and categories of mattresses in a wide range of designs, budgets, firmness levels, and with different return/exchange policies that would be worth considering and one of the links is to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online.

Phoenix
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Help Choosing a Bed 12 Nov 2016 06:46 #7

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Unfortunately the Voila mattress doesn't list the specifics of the materials and components in their mattresses so I wouldn't consider them unless they can provide you with the information here so you can confirm there are no lower quality materials or weak links that would compromise the durability and useful life of their mattress. There have been several forum members that have tried to find out this information from Voila and been unsuccessful and if a retailer or manufacturer either isn't willing or able to provide you with the information you need to make an informed choice and make meaningful comparisons with other mattresses ... I would avoid them completely. They are also made in China and there is always some additional risk and uncertainty involved in buying a mattress that is made in China or other imported mattresses that may be subject to longer periods of compression during shipping and storage that can sometimes affect the durability and useful life of the mattress (see post #6 here ).



Phoenix


Hi Phoenix,

I have just stumbled upon this website and as of now have around 5-6 tabs of vast amounts of information that you have provided throughout the forums.

I had been following a mattress revenue like review website for the past 1-2 trying to find the right mattress. I stumbled upon the Voila mattress there and have found some specification information I would like to share with you for your review.

This is for the 'Hybrid Plush' model:

cdn3.bigcommerce.com/s-x577eti/products/78/images/292/hybrid-12-inch-isometric__43709.1461336680.1280.1280.jpg?c=2

The 12″ Plush Voila is composed of the following layers:

Stretch polyester cover – with breathable mesh side fabric
Flame resistant cover– 1633 / 1632 CFR flame resistant cover
2.5″ 3.0lb gel Visco foam edge to edge
.75″ 2.5lb support foam edge to edge
.75″ 2.5lb side wall edge foam, inside of this cavity is .75″ latex
fiber insulator pad
6.25″ five zone pocketed coils with edge support
6.25″ 2.5lb edge support foam with ventilator holes for airflow
fiber insulator pad
.75″ medium base foam
1″ firm base foam
Base Cover

In one of my tabs I see that you caution customers to make sure to know all the materials and layers, and that they add up to the height of the mattress. Based on the thickness and densities of these materials, is there any cause for concern that sticks out for you? I am a 5'7 155lb male.

I ordered this mattress yesterday before finding myself here on mattressunderground and am now worried about my mattress. I guess before, I hadn't though much of durability when it comes to mattresses because of their standard warranty policies, but now I am seeing that materials can soften over time causing issues. In addition, I am coming from a 15 year old innerspring mattress and trying this online route for the first time so I hope I am not making a mistake going with Voila. They are so new and the mattress come from China, so I am hoping for the best.

I came across a company called Suissly when scouting these threads, I was wondering if this is a good company and would be a better option than Voiila if i choose to return the mattress? Any other brands you recommend to look at? I chose the Voila initially because I like the 'bounce back' kind of mattress with a little bit of sinking, but not as if I am being trapped and I thought the hybrid mattress would be the best of both worlds. I am worried about the memory foam layer on the top however.

I had actually placed an order for a brooklyn bedding mattress before this. I thought the latex with the quilted cover would be a nice option, but decided to cancel last minute due to fear, because I read of some horror customer service return issues and the lack of edge support.

I hope my post makes sense and thank you so much for all you do here.

Sincerely,

Nick

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Help Choosing a Bed 12 Nov 2016 11:46 #8

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Hi oznefu,

Welcome to the Mattress Forum! :)

Thank you for posting some of the specifications of the Voila mattress.

The 12″ Plush Voila is composed of the following layers:

Stretch polyester cover – with breathable mesh side fabric
Flame resistant cover– 1633 / 1632 CFR flame resistant cover
2.5″ 3.0lb gel Visco foam edge to edge
.75″ 2.5lb support foam edge to edge
.75″ 2.5lb side wall edge foam, inside of this cavity is .75″ latex
fiber insulator pad
6.25″ five zone pocketed coils with edge support
6.25″ 2.5lb edge support foam with ventilator holes for airflow
fiber insulator pad
.75″ medium base foam
1″ firm base foam
Base Cover


Most of the specifications are listed. The top 2.5” of 3 lb. memory foam would be my greatest concern, as that is a lower quality than what I would normally recommend (4 lb. would be the minimum I would prefer to see), especially in the uppermost layer where the foam gets the most compression. The 2.5 lb. support foam of .75” is a good density. The .75” of latex (they don’t list the style – Dunlop or Talalay – or the blend) would also be a good quality material. They don’t list the density of the bottom two .75” and 1” layers of polyfoam, so you’d want to know that. Overall, for the layers that we know, the polyfoam is, at 2.5 lb., a goof quality of density, but the memory foam at 3 lb. is a weak link even for someone of a moderate BMI.

They are so new and the mattress come from China, so I am hoping for the best.


I would also read post #6 here about mattresses imported from Asia or China and which may have been compressed for long periods of time in either shipping or storage before being purchased. Being sourced in China would make this somewhat of a risky purchase IMO.

I came across a company called Suissly when scouting these threads,


Suissly doesn’t list complete specifications on their web site. 2 of their 4 firmness options include a pocket coil with different types of foam layers on top of the pocket coil. These include what they call California Dream foam (which would be what I call a high performance polyfoam), memory foam, and organic Dunlop latex. The organic latex is a very high quality and durable material but I would want to know the density of the high performance polyfoam and the memory foam to make sure they meet the minimum durability guidelines before considering them.

Any other brands you recommend to look at?


It seems that you’re mostly interested in shopping online, so I would use the experience and expertise of the members listed in post #21 here who are all very experienced and knowledgeable and specialize in providing the type of help and guidance on the phone that can help you make good choices. There are a wide range of latex and memory foam and other options included in the choices there and I believe that all of them compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency.

I had actually placed an order for a brooklyn bedding mattress before this. I thought the latex with the quilted cover would be a nice option, but decided to cancel last minute due to fear, because I read of some horror customer service return issues and the lack of edge support.


Brooklyn Bedding is a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them in terms of their quality, value, service, knowledge, and transparency. They are extremely knowledgeable about latex and different configurations, and I would not hesitate to recommend them for your consideration. While you certainly can find negative and positive reviews for almost any company online, Brooklyn Bedding has excellent customer service. An issue with service or a return would be an anomaly and not the rule with BB. Regarding edge support, many of the online retailers using a polyfoam core with latex on top will not use an edge reinforcement system, as the higher IFD/ILD of the polyfoam base takes the place of such a system. In many cases, this foam is the same (or higher) firmness of the foams that would have normally been used for edge reinforcement around a typical innerspring system.

Regarding reviews…while other people's comments about the knowledge and service of a particular business can certainly be very helpful ... I would always keep in mind that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and I would be cautious about using anyone else's suggestions, experiences or reviews on a specific mattress (either positive or negative) or review sites in general as a reliable source of information or guidance about how you will feel on the same mattress or how suitable or how durable a mattress may be for you. In many if not most cases they can be more misleading than helpful because a mattress that would be a perfect choice for one person or even a larger group of people in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on (even if they are in a similar weight range). In other words ... reviews or other people's experiences in general won't tell you much if anything about the suitability, quality, durability, or "value" of a mattress for any particular person (see post #13 here ).

I hope my post makes sense and thank you so much for all you do here.


Your post certainly makes sense. B)

I would tell you to “rethink” a bit of how you’re going about picking out a mattress. The first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones. Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well he will sleep), durability (how long he will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

I hope this information is helpful for you as you go about your selection process.

Phoenix
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Help Choosing a Bed 12 Nov 2016 12:37 #9

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Suissly doesn’t list complete specifications on their web site. 2 of their 4 firmness options include a pocket coil with different types of foam layers on top of the pocket coil. These include what they call California Dream foam (which would be what I call a high performance polyfoam), memory foam, and organic Dunlop latex. The organic latex is a very high quality and durable material but I would want to know the density of the high performance polyfoam and the memory foam to make sure they meet the minimum durability guidelines before considering them.

Phoenix


Thank you for your reply Phoenix. I have begun reading through your recommendations and different guides, but wanted to quickly answer this since I just called Suissly. Below is their reply:

"The California Dream Foam is the top comfort layer for the Medium-Soft and Medium mattresses. It is 1.5" with a pcf rating of 3lbs. The middle layer is a memory foam with the same dimensions for all three mattresses you're inquiring about. The Medium-Firm mattress' top layer is latex that had a 14 ILD rating. Our latex is organic Dunlop. "

From the comfort and support guides, I think these would be acceptable in terms of durability? But, is it best to just try and avoid any type of high performance polyfoam on the top layers? I'm not sure what to make of the latex.

You had also mentioned that many mattresses and their higher ILD base foams are similar in edge support to what inner spring mattresses provide. I was also looking into the OSO mattress and in addition to the their top comfort layers, they say that their base layer is 6” of 2 lb pcf RevTech foam. Is 2lb enough in your opinion to provide adequate amount of edge support?

Thank you!

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Help Choosing a Bed 12 Nov 2016 16:51 #10

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Hi oznefu,

"The California Dream Foam is the top comfort layer for the Medium-Soft and Medium mattresses. It is 1.5" with a pcf rating of 3lbs.


Thank you for confirming that the top polyfoam layer in these two mattresses is 3 lb. This would be considered a good density of polyfoam.

The middle layer is a memory foam with the same dimensions for all three mattresses you're inquiring about.


They don’t list the density of this memory foam, which is what would be important to know regarding its level of quality.

The Medium-Firm mattress' top layer is latex that had a 14 ILD rating. Our latex is organic Dunlop. "


The use a GOLS certified Dunlop latex, and this certainly would be a good quality material.

There is no mention of the density of the base polyfoam 7” layer on their Medium or Firm mattress. You’d want to know that as well if you’re considering those items.

But, is it best to just try and avoid any type of high performance polyfoam on the top layers? I'm not sure what to make of the latex.


Just the opposite. You want higher-quality, higher-density foams to be used in your mattress. And latex is the most durable of the major foam types.

Outside of “feel”, the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the quality of the materials and components to the durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

You had also mentioned that many mattresses and their higher ILD base foams are similar in edge support to what inner spring mattresses provide. I was also looking into the OSO mattress and in addition to the their top comfort layers, they say that their base layer is 6” of 2 lb pcf RevTech foam. Is 2lb enough in your opinion to provide adequate amount of edge support


I think you’re confusing ILD and density. I wouldn’t know the ILD of the base foam in the OSO mattress, and that information in and of itself isn’t incredibly important in evaluating a mattress, as it’s not a “quality” indicator, like density. A foam with a high ILD (firmer) can be low or high density. Remember that foam edge systems placed around an innerspring unit also rely upon the innerspring unit for extra edge reinforcement, so there is no direct correlation between a polyfoam core and an innerspring unit with an edge reinforcement system, even if that innerspring unit used the exact same foam as the polyfoam core, as there are other variables involved. If your main concern is using the mattress as a chair or having the strongest edge possible, then you may wish to stay with some sort of an innerspring product, even one with a border rod around the spring unit. Unfortunately, it really isn’t possible for me to make any predictions for you regarding how the edge will feel from one mattress to another, as it’s part of a completed system and there are too many variables involved. If you’re ordering something online, your best bet is to place a phone call to any company you’re considering and ask about how their edges feel on their products, and then also be sure to inquire about any potential return/exchange policy in case their product doesn’t work out as well as you hoped it would.

Phoenix
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