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Help deciding between these online only mattresses 29 Apr 2016 12:40 #1

So first a little background... I had a Kingsdown Sleep to Live 600 series traditional innerspring mattress that lasted about 4 years. I picked it up from Sit and Sleep, and using their bed match system or whatever it was called back then I was in between the 3rd and 4th sections (blue and red) out of the 4 section scale. Which put me in a medium-medium firm range. The bed was split with one side being blue and the other red. I never slept on the red side as it was too firm. That bed developed a body impression but also got stained which voided the warranty. Last March I decided to pick up the popular and very highly rated Brentwood Home 13 inch mattress from Amazon here For the first few months, I really liked the mattress, but over the past 3 months, I've been having back pain and cannot get a decent night of sleep on this anymore. It now seems this mattress was too firm for me all along. I'm also thinking some of the foam may have given way as I don't feel the support I originally had when I bought it, so now I am looking to replace it.

A couple days ago I started by venturing out to some local mattress stores here in Los Angeles. I visited Sit N Sleep, Ortho, Jerome's, Living Spaces, and an independent mattress store by my house. From my research on here and other sites, I know to stay away from the big "S" brands but my goal was to determine what level of firmness I really needed. I decided to try Sit N Sleep again and get an updated bed match diagnostic done. This time I fell right on the edge of the green and blue, basically right in the middle between firm and soft. I managed to find a very comfortable Simmons Beautyrest Recharge here . To my surprise this is actually a luxury firm but the pillow top gave it just the right amount of softness. After, I headed over to Ortho, and found I liked the feel of the plush model of the Simmons and Serta hybrids as well. I then went across the street to Jerome's and was also able to find a couple innerspring mattresses there with the level of firmness/softness I liked. They had the Revitalize and Rejuvenate II series both were the plush level of firmness I liked (a 3 out of 10 on their scale). They told me their mattresses are made by Diamond mattresses, a local manufacturer here in So Cal, who I've never heard of before. They also don't offer any kind of trial period so that was crossed off the list.

So that brings me to my current search. I'm looking at many different online companies, all of which I have seen on these various "so-called" mattress review sites. In order of price, I am considering the following....

Ghostbed - Brooklyn Bedding: Best Mattress Ever - Yogabed - Leesa - Nest Love Bed - Saatva - Purple - Nest Alexander Hybrid - Loom & Leaf and the Nest Alexander.

However of these choices, I have put them into 3 groups based on type and price, along with similar construction. Those would be...

Group 1: Value priced Foam...Brooklyn Bedding, Leesa and Nest Love Bed
Group 2: Mattress w/Innersprings: Saatva and Nest Alexander Hybrid
Group 3: Luxury priced Foam: Loom & Leaf and Nest Alexander

Purple is in it's own category, and Ghostbed and Yogabed are more on the outs due to the fact they don't provide as much comfort layers of foam, and are similarly priced to those above in Group 1

Price is a slight concern, but I'm willing to spend more to get the appropriate level of comfort and support, so in that regard I would be just as happy with a Ghostbed as I would with an Alexander provided it gives me the proper level of comfort and support.

Before I go on, let me give you some information about myself. I am 5'9" and weigh 194 lbs, and I am mostly a side sleeper. Everything I've read says a lot of these value priced mattresses should be avoided for heavier sleepers so I'm not sure where I fall on that scale. My biggest concern as I'm sure it is with most people is getting right firmness of mattress. That's ultimately why I've given myself so many to choose from.

I figured Group 1 would give me something closer to what I have now in the Brentwood but hopefully in the right firmness. Since I like the feel of innersprings, that's why I have group 2 in there, and group 3 is there because well they are luxury foam mattresses and the Alexander comes in a softer feel, which I feel is more what I need.

That being said, I was fortunate enough to be able to visit the Nest bedding store in Santa Monica, and try out all the Nest options. The result was interesting. The Love Bed, Alexander Hybrid, and Alexander didn't really feel all that different from each other, with the exception of the softer Alexander. The medium Love bed did have a nice little bounce to it that you don't normally feel in a memory foam mattress, and the Alexander Hybrid seemed to have a nice balance of foam feel with the bounce of an innerspring. Whether that's worth an extra $272 I have yet to decide. I'm actually going back tomorrow with my girlfriend to give them a little more in depth test, as I had limited time yesterday on my lunch break. The materials and feel of the Alexander Hybrid did seem to be better than the Love Bed so in that regard it may be worth the extra $$. However, I did find out from the rep one interesting thing. When I mentioned that I currently had the Brentwood mattress, she said "Oh that's cool, they are actually one of our manufacturers here for So Cal" Considering I'm not exactly happy with the Brentwood I have now, it's not exactly a deal breaker but that does concern me slightly.

Should I be at all concerned that Brentwood is manufacturing mattresses for Nest?

After taxes and discounts, the Nest Love Bed and Leesa are only $1 apart in price. With that, is there any reason I should consider the Leesa over the Love Bed? If not, then that's one mattress I can eliminate right off the bat.

How would you compare the comfort layers and materials in the Brooklyn Bedding, Leesa and Nest Love Bed and I guess along those lines to the Ghostbed and Yogabed?

Since I did enjoy sleeping on my old Kingsdown innerspring mattress and enjoyed the feel of the Simmons and Jeromes innerspring mattress, that also makes things confusing when trying to choose as that will also include the Saatva and Nest Alexander Hybrid. I was told by the rep at Nest that due to my body proportions/weight, I would definitely feel the coils on the Saatva since it only uses less than 2" of comfort foam above the coils. Should I basically cross that off the list as well? I do like the fact though that it is available in a soft and luxury firm option, of which I would probably lean more toward soft. The good thing about the Alexander Hybrid, is I was able to test it out, and it seems like it should be the right amount of support and softness, but I didn't get that immediate great feeling I felt when I tried out the Simmons and Jerome's mattresses. Again, I have no intention of buying either of those.

Then there is group 3. Out of these two, I would lean more toward the Loom and Leaf but I have the Alexander on there because it has the softer option. They are fairly comparable in size and amount/composition of layers so just wondering if there is any real advantage/disadvantage of the quality/amount of materials?

Lastly, that leaves Purple all by itself. I admit I'm intrigued at this whole hyper elastic polymer providing a "perfect level of support" but it certainly isn't the front runner at this point. Any reason I should move it up the list or should eliminate it from contention?

If you've made it this far, thank you for taking the time to read this. I was blown away at how many choices there are in the online individual mattress world now, so I hope this topic and responses will help others out as well.

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Last edit: by jlcpremier.

Help deciding between these online only mattresses 29 Apr 2016 13:50 #2

Hi jlcpremier,

While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress. There are just too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

I would also keep in mind that there are also no "standard" definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like "medium" for someone else or even "soft" for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they "rate" a mattress as well (see post #15 here ) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

One of the most frustrating parts of mattress shopping can be spending time testing a mattress and finding out that you like it and it's a good match for you in terms of firmness, "feel" and PPP only to find out that the mattress contains low quality materials and/or that information you need to identify any lower quality materials or weak links in the mattress or make meaningful comparisons to other mattresses isn't available and you've wasted the time you spent testing the mattress.

In other words ... the time you spend testing mattresses that use low quality materials or where you can't find out what is inside them or that other manufacturers don't specifically advertise as being similar to a mattress that they make won't generally help you find another mattress that is similar because the only way to know how similar it will be for you (regardless of whether it would feel similar to someone else) will be based on your own careful testing or personal experience.

I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but just in case you haven't read it yet ... the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress ... outside of PPP which is the most important part of "value", the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

If you are considering online options and you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range ... the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a "better/worse" choice (see this article ). The best way to know which type of materials or which type of mattresses you tend to prefer in general terms will be based on your own testing and personal experience because different people can have very different preferences and different sleeping experiences on the same mattress.

Post #2 here in the simplified choice mattress topic includes some comments about all of the mattresses you mentioned except three of them and post #1 in the same topic would be well worth reading as well.

The Purple mattress is one of about 25 mattresses that I haven't added to the simplified choice mattress topic yet but you can see some comments about it in post #2 here and the posts it links to.

The Nest Alexander and the Nest Alexander hybrid aren't part of the simplified choice category so they also aren't in the simplified choice list.

You can see some comments about the new design of the Nest Alexander Signature Select medium in post #2 here . The Nest Alexander soft and firm both only contain 1.5" of polyfoam in the quilting so assuming that one of them would be a suitable match for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP they would also be a suitable choice in terms of durability relative to your weight range.

There are some comments about the new design of the Nest Alexander hybrid in post #26 here .

While there are certainly some good quality/value mattresses in the list of mattresses you are considering ... because the list has so many options available I wouldn't consider it to be as much of a "simplified choice" list any longer because there really isn't much difference between choosing between 48 mattresses that are offered by 48 different companies or 48 mattresses (or less) that are offered by a single company and when you are purchasing online it's not possible to make "real time" comparisons between many different mattresses to see if you like one better than another which you can in a local store. Because most of them have good trial periods and refund policies though, you can at least try them with little risk to find out if they are "good enough" in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP even though you can't know if another one would have been a better choice unless you try it as well.

Once you have narrowed down your options to a (hopefully smaller) list of finalists that are all choices between "good and good" and none of them have any lower quality materials or "weak links" in their design and if at this point there are no clear winners between them (which is usually a good indication that you have done some good research) then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your own local testing and/or your more detailed phone conversations about each of them, the firmness and suitability of each one, their prices, your preferences for different types of materials and components, designs, or types and blends of latex, the options you have after a purchase to fine tune the mattress or exchange or return the mattress or individual layers and any costs involved, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on "informed best judgement" based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your [url=]personal value equation[/url] that are most important to you.

Should I be at all concerned that Brentwood is manufacturing mattresses for Nest?


Knowing the type and quality of the materials in a mattress so you can identify any lower quality materials or weak links that could compromise the durability or useful life of a mattress relative to your weight range is much more important than knowing the name of the manufacturer that makes it (which isn't really meaningful or relevant).

Phoenix
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Help deciding between these online only mattresses 29 Apr 2016 18:18 #3

Thanks for the response Phoenix. I noticed a lot of similar responses in certain areas you have given on other threads but I get that with getting asked so many similar questions by users, it's best to have some responses pre-staged. However, I did check out most of what you mentioned and the guidance helped immensely.

I've already eliminated Ghostbed and Yogabed, and after reading through the Saatva thread and Loom & Leaf thread, I am leaving those as absolute last resorts, as I just don't feel very comfortable with the company as a whole.

After now numerous hours of reading through various threads and revisiting your guides in detail, I have a clear direction on how to proceed from here...

Right now, more than likely I am leaning toward the Nest Love Bed or Alexander Hybrid. Having the ability to test these in person is a huge plus. And from my quick visit yesterday, I did feel that one of those was a strong possibility. After reading through the testing guidelines I will be sure to incorporate that into my testing tomorrow.

The Brooklyn Bedding BME is still in contention since you mentioned the high quality latex it has, but reading through the threads, it appears there are some slight QC issues with it as well. If neither of the Nest mattresses end up being a good fit, that would be my next option I would try.

I haven't entirely ruled out the Leesa either but it would be further down the list. The Alexander would come in after that, and Purple, well after reading more into it, I don't think that's ultimately the type of support I'm looking for, so that would join the Saatva and Loom & Leaf as last resorts.

I'll let you know what happens.

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Help deciding between these online only mattresses 29 Apr 2016 18:30 #4

Hi jlcpremier,

I'm looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding :).

Thanks for the response Phoenix. I noticed a lot of similar responses in certain areas you have given on other threads but I get that with getting asked so many similar questions by users, it's best to have some responses pre-staged. However, I did check out most of what you mentioned and the guidance helped immensely.


As you mentioned there are many questions that are frequently asked on the forum so I have several hundred "reference posts" that I use to reply to the more common questions.

The Brooklyn Bedding BME is still in contention since you mentioned the high quality latex it has, but reading through the threads, it appears there are some slight QC issues with it as well. If neither of the Nest mattresses end up being a good fit, that would be my next option I would try.


There were a few instances over a short period of time about 9 months ago with some of their mattresses that didn't expand back to their correct size (primarily with king size mattresses) but that was quite some time ago and they quickly identified and corrected the issue. It certainly hasn't happened recently. They are one of the more durable choices in the list because of the latex comfort layers and the 2.0 lb polyfoam base layer which would be suitable for any weight range.

I haven't entirely ruled out the Leesa either but it would be further down the list.


As you probably read ... the Leesa uses a 2" layer of 3 lb memory foam in the second layer and even though it's deeper in the mattress (which generally improves durability) ... a 2" layer of 3 lb memory foam in the upper layers or a mattress could be a potential weak link in terms of durability.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help deciding between these online only mattresses 03 May 2016 14:43 #5

So ultimately I've decided to go a completely different route. After my girlfriend and I visited Nest again, we both determined their offerings weren't going to work for us as both the Love Bed and Alexander Hybrid felt too firm for us. I took her to Ortho and Jerome's to show her the feel of mattress I was looking for and again we found a softness we both liked but in the lower quality brand name mattresses. It also meant we decided the mattress had to at least be a hybrid or an innerspring, as we both just did not like the feel of an all foam mattress. After visiting Jerome's though I decided to look into Diamond Mattress more and after doing a forum search on here, they seem to have a pretty good reputation. I found an independent store that sells Diamond Mattresses directly and as I had predicted they were a lot less expensive then paying for the Jerome's name being put on basically the same mattress. After doing some extensive testing I ended up really liking the Ethos Tranquility. I got a killer deal with no tax and free shipping, so I took it.

The mattress is scheduled to be delivered in 2 days, and for the past 2 days I've been trying to get further detailed info regarding the thickness and density of the layers from Diamond directly, but so far have not been successful. When I asked the sales rep at Jerome's he said they use a minimum of 1.8 lb foam in all their mattresses so that put me at ease a little, but I couldn't get an exact breakdown from him. After speaking with customer service, they have referred me to one of their sales reps in my area, so I will wait to see if I get a call back from him but I'm not holding my breath.

Either way, I feel good about the decision as it's definitely better than going with a big "S" brand, and since the main support system is coils with talalay latex on top and a little bit of foam underneath, I'm not as concerned about the issue of the foam giving way. as it's not a main support layer. I was also able to try out the mattress before hand, which was something that I was concerned about. Worst case, the store I purchased it from has a 60 day trial so there is some piece of mind there. I'll let you know if I end up getting any further info from Diamond.

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Last edit: by jlcpremier.

Help deciding between these online only mattresses 03 May 2016 15:17 #6

Hi jlcpremier,

After visiting Jerome's though I decided to look into Diamond Mattress more and after doing a forum search on here, they seem to have a pretty good reputation. I found an independent store that sells Diamond Mattresses directly and as I had predicted they were a lot less expensive then paying for the Jerome's name being put on basically the same mattress. After doing some extensive testing I ended up really liking the Ethos Tranquility. I got a killer deal with no tax and free shipping, so I took it.


There are some comments about Diamond in post #2 here and the posts it links to that would be well worth reading. I had a conversation with someone from Diamond a short time ago about some new mattresses they are designing and I passed on my thoughts that it would be very helpful if they were more transparent about the type and quality/density of the materials in their mattresses so I hope that they will take the comments to heart.

The mattress is scheduled to be delivered in 2 days, and for the past 2 days I've been trying to get further detailed info regarding the thickness and density of the layers from Diamond directly, but so far have not been successful. When I asked the sales rep at Jerome's he said they use a minimum of 1.8 lb foam in all their mattresses so that put me at ease a little, but I couldn't get an exact breakdown from him. After speaking with customer service, they have referred me to one of their sales reps in my area, so I will wait to see if I get a call back from him but I'm not holding my breath.


I'm not so sure they are correct about whether Diamond doesn't use any foam densities that are less than 1.8 lb density in their mattresses but either way I would want to find out all the information here about any mattress I was considering before making any purchase. It's much less risky to assume that any "unknown density" materials are lower quality than the foam quality guidelines here than it is to assume that they meet the guidelines regardless of what the retailer may "guess" they may be.

Worst case, the store I purchased it from has a 60 day trial so there is some piece of mind there.


This would certainly be long enough to tell you whether the mattress is a good "match" for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP ... it wouldn't tell you anything about whether there are any lower quality materials or "weak links" that would compromise the durability or useful life of the mattress relative to your weight range.

I'll let you know if I end up getting any further info from Diamond.


That would be great. Without this information you would be making a risky choice.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Help deciding between these online only mattresses 25 May 2017 14:12 #7

Well it's been just over a year and already I'm going to have to replace the mattress. It's formed indentations on both sides of the mattress to the point that i feel like I'm rolling into the dip at night and even weekly rotating has not fixed it. With the sheets off you can't actually see any kind of indentation, but once you put any weight on it, you can feel the difference. I'm assuming the coils have just given way in that particular section.

I reached out to the company but unfortunately the mattress got stained and they said that voids any warranty. If you're considering a Diamond mattress, I'd go with something else.

Guess that was a $1500 learning opportunity. Now I'm going to look at the recommended bed-in-a-box options.

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Help deciding between these online only mattresses 25 May 2017 16:16 #8

Hi jlcpremier,

Well it's been just over a year and already I'm going to have to replace the mattress. It's formed indentations on both sides of the mattress to the point that i feel like I'm rolling into the dip at night and even weekly rotating has not fixed it. With the sheets off you can't actually see any kind of indentation, but once you put any weight on it, you can feel the difference. I'm assuming the coils have just given way in that particular section.


I’m sorry your Diamond mattress isn’t working out for you. From your description I’m not able to offer any guidance if what you’re experiencing is the normal softening of foam in the area where it is used, or an actual defect (usually defined as more than 1.5” of body impression). Lower density foams will tend to be less durable and impress more over time, and that would most likely be the reason for your issue, not a spring unit failure. Also, without knowing the actual specifications of all of the materials within the mattress, and the type of foundation you’re using, I unfortunately can’t provide much more meaningful information or insight for you.

I reached out to the company but unfortunately the mattress got stained and they said that voids any warranty. If you're considering a Diamond mattress, I'd go with something else.


They are correct that stains do void mattress warranties – it is an OSHA regulation (1910.1030), so make sure that your next mattress has an adequate mattress pad or protector to assist you with this.

Guess that was a $1500 learning opportunity. Now I'm going to look at the recommended bed-in-a-box options.


Make sure to follow the guidelines in the mattress shopping tutorial , as well as learning about the materials in the mattress, which I linked to in one of my previous replies in to thread, to assist you in the process.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
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