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Help Pick a New Mattress 23 Apr 2016 05:26 #1

  • kostolomac
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We currently have a memory foam mattress which has soften to the point that it is killing my back. I wake up every morning with back in pain. Obviously this mattress does not qualify for warranty replacement with the stupid string test for measuring static sag. Anyways, I am looking at a new mattress. We can get a good discount at this mattress store so we are looking at two mattresses. We are looking for a firmer mattress. I am a side sleeper (which I do not know if it matters). I attached images for viewing them. One is a latex and the other is coil mattress. Which one should I go for? Or should i look elsewhere? Thanks.

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Help Pick a New Mattress 23 Apr 2016 08:58 #2

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Hi kostolomac,

We can get a good discount at this mattress store so we are looking at two mattresses. We are looking for a firmer mattress. I am a side sleeper (which I do not know if it matters). I attached images for viewing them. One is a latex and the other is coil mattress. Which one should I go for? Or should i look elsewhere? Thanks.


While I can certainly help with "how" to choose ... It's not possible to make specific suggestions or recommendations for either a mattress, manufacturers/retailers, or combinations of materials or components because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to always remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress. There are just too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, or PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your own Personal preferences) or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress), sleeping positions, health conditions, or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more reliable than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

I'm not sure what you've read since you found the site but just in case you haven't read it yet ... the first place to start your research is the mattress shopping tutorial here which includes all the basic information, steps, and guidelines that can help you make the best possible choice ... and perhaps more importantly know how and why to avoid the worst ones.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort", firmness, and PPP that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

While again nobody can speak to how any specific mattress will "feel" for someone else because this is too subjective and relative to different body types, sleeping positions, and individual preferences, sensitivities, and circumstances and you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress ... outside of PPP which is the most important part of "value", the next most important part of the value of a mattress purchase is durability which is all about how long you will sleep well on a mattress. This is the part of your research that you can't see or "feel" and assessing the durability and useful life of a mattress depends on knowing the specifics of its construction and the type and quality of the materials inside it regardless of the name of the manufacturer on the label (or how a mattress feels in a showroom or when it is relatively new) so I would always make sure that you find out information listed here so you can compare the materials and components to the quality/durability guidelines here to make sure there are no lower quality materials or weak links in a mattress that would be a cause for concern relative to the durability and useful life of a mattress before making any purchase.

Neither one of the descriptions that you linked includes all the information that I would need to make any meaningful comments about the quality and durability of the materials inside them but if you can find out the density of the polyfoam layers in both mattresses and post them on the forum I'd be happy to let you know if there are any lower quality materials or weak links in either mattress that could compromise the durability and useful life of either of them or that would be a reason for concern.

Phoenix
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Help Pick a New Mattress 23 Apr 2016 09:29 #3

  • planetship
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Rather than bore you with a large wall of garrulous text, I will discuss my experience on a memory foam mattress and how I discovered that it was the wrong choice for me. My wife and I purchased a memory foam mattress three years ago. It was fine for about a year, but then the foam began to break down and body impressions appeared. The already mediocre lumbar support of the memory foam mattress was reduced to no support at all. We needed something with more support. Right now we have a coil mattress which provides much more support and is far more comfortable than memory foam. I would definitely go with something that has individually pocketed coils to provide that good base of support. A 100% foam or latex mattress will most likely not provide this. There are several hybrid mattresses out there as well that use both coils and latex, and are definitely something to consider as well.

Make sure you avoid the major manufacturers as most of what they produce is junk. I would also highly caution you against buying in-store, as you will be paying a huge markup for the store and also tax. Buying online after you figure out what you want saves you time and money.

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Help Pick a New Mattress 23 Apr 2016 09:48 #4

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Hi planetship,

Right now we have a coil mattress which provides much more support and is far more comfortable than memory foam. I would definitely go with something that has individually pocketed coils to provide that good base of support. A 100% foam or latex mattress will most likely not provide this. There are several hybrid mattresses out there as well that use both coils and latex, and are definitely something to consider as well.


I would keep in mind that "support" and "comfort" are both relative and can vary based on the body type, sleeping style, and individual preferences of different people. A mattress that is "perfect" for you may be completely unsuitable for someone else to sleep on regardless of the specific materials and components in a mattress.

"Support" is often misunderstood because the goal of a "supportive" mattress is to keep the spine and joints in good alignment and this requires the type of contouring support that allows some parts of the body to sink in more (softer) and some parts of the body to sink in less (firmer) and this will vary on an individual basis based on body type and sleeping style. There is more about primary or "deep" support and secondary or "surface" support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the "roles" of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between "support/alignment" and "comfort/pressure relief" and "feel" and how they interact together.

Assuming that the materials in a mattress you are considering are durable enough for your body type and meet the quality/durability guidelines here relative to your weight range ... the choice between different types and combinations of materials and components or different types of mattresses are more of a preference and a budget choice than a "better/worse" choice (see this article ). The best way to know which type of materials or which type of mattresses you (or someone else) may tend to prefer in general terms will be based on your (or their) own careful testing and personal experience because different people can have very different preferences.

Make sure you avoid the major manufacturers as most of what they produce is junk.


I would certainly agree with you here in general terms. The major brands such as Sealy/Stearns & Foster, Simmons, and Serta all tend to use lower quality materials in their mattresses than most of their smaller competitors that will tend to soften or break down prematurely relative to the price you pay which is why I would generally suggest avoiding all of them completely (regardless of how they may feel in a showroom) along with any mattress where you aren't able to find out the type and quality/durability of the materials inside it (see the guidelines here along with post #3 here and post #12 here and post #404 here ).

I would also highly caution you against buying in-store, as you will be paying a huge markup for the store and also tax. Buying online after you figure out what you want saves you time and money.


I would completely disagree with you here. Many local stores carry mattresses that aren't available online and while I would avoid the major chain stores (that tend to focus on major brand mattresses) ... there are local retailers or factory direct manufacturers in most areas of the country that sell great quality/value mattresses that are certainly in a similar "value" range to online manufacturers ... you just need to know how to find them. Local testing also gives you the chance to test and compare many different mattress in person and in "real time" to see which of them are the best "match" in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP while purchasing an online mattress doesn't give you the chance to compare the mattress you are purchasing with other mattresses (unless you have tested that specific mattress in a store).

Online retailers and manufacturers and local retailers or manufacturers each have their own pros and cons but I certainly wouldn't say that one was inherently "better" than the other because this will depend on the specific retailers or manufacturers you are considering and on the risk tolerance and the specific criteria that are important to each individual person. Your risk tolerance and criteria and all the parts of your personal value equation that are important to you may be very different from someone else.

Phoenix
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Help Pick a New Mattress 24 Apr 2016 05:57 #5

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Well based on us testing the mattresses around these were the two we liked. It seems to have the right amount of firmness. IT seems to provide enough support and comfortable. While moving around they seem to provide the best motion isolation. It seems like a fast responsive. As far as breathability/temp control goes I do not much info about it. I will need to get in touch with mattress place to get more info that you asked. I am concerned with quality and durability for obvious reasons ie. my current mattress.

What is that they advertise that these mattresses are made to order more or less. They are not typically stored. We would get the mattress in about 2 weeks. They are not (as far as I know) one of the big manufacturers. I tried to find more info online but to no avail. So I will get back to you with more info.

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Help Pick a New Mattress 24 Apr 2016 11:28 #6

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Hi kostolomac,

I am concerned with quality and durability for obvious reasons ie. my current mattress.


I would also have some concerns with any mattress where you don't know the type and quality of all the layers and components inside it so that you can confirm there are no lower quality materials or weak links that would compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

They are not (as far as I know) one of the big manufacturers. I tried to find more info online but to no avail. So I will get back to you with more info.


I would guess that at least one of the mattresses you linked (and possibly both) are made by one of the Bedding Industries of America brands . If the retailer you are dealing with can't provide you with the information you need need then I hope that they will contact their factory rep to find out for you so you can make an informed choice.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help Pick a New Mattress 25 Apr 2016 18:17 #7

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I stopped by one of the stores and the guy working there was clueless. Could not answer any of my questions. For now all I got is that "Brockport Firm" is made by some company called heritage sleep product. I could not find more info about the company nor the mattress. I will try to call in another store. Thanks for your help.

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Last edit: by kostolomac.

Help Pick a New Mattress 25 Apr 2016 18:40 #8

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Hi kostolomac,

For now all I got is that "Brockport Firm" is made by some company called heritage sleep product.


If they are referring to Heritage Sleep Concepts then they are an Eclipse/Eastman House licensee.

I stopped by one of the stores and the guy working there was clueless. Could not answer any of my questions.


If none of the salespeople at a retail store can provide you with the information you need about the type and densities of the polyfoam and memory foam layers in their mattresses then I would always pass them by because without knowing this you would be making a very risky purchase.

Out of the two mattresses you listed the Equinox firm would be the least risky because the Talalay latex is a good quality and durable material but the 2" of polyfoam quilting on top of the latex is a little bit thicker than I would normally suggest for a quilting layer and could be a weak link in the mattress. The density of the polyfoam layer on the bottom would be less important in terms of durability because there are 6" of foam layers on top of it although I would still want to know what it was.

The Brockport firm has a little over 3 1/2" of "unknown" density polyfoam in the top layers of the mattress and if you don't know the density of these layers it is always much safer to assume that they are lower quality and less durable materials and it would be a much more risky choice.

Phoenix
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Help Pick a New Mattress 29 Apr 2016 15:56 #9

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So based on my research I believe i have breakdown of the latex mattress. I believe that its similar to puretouch mattress. It is made by dutch craft. Please let me know what you think. I can get the king mattress for $1499. It seems like a good deal just not sure about the core.

6" talalay latex is 28 ILD
core is 1823 = 1.8 lbs/cubic foot and 23 IFD

I looked at jamestown mattress for heavenly cloud. That seemed very nice/sturdy but PRICEY $2699.
2” Plush Polyurethane Foam
2” 100% Natural Medium (ILD 24-26) Latex
6” 100% Natural Medium (ILD 24-26) Latex Core

Let me know what you think.

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Last edit: by kostolomac.

Help Pick a New Mattress 29 Apr 2016 16:28 #10

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Hi kostolomac,

6" talalay latex is 28 ILD
core is 1823 = 1.8 lbs/cubic foot and 23 IFD


The ILD information isn't important to know (your body will tell you whether a mattress is a good "match" for you in terms of comfort, firmness, and PPP).

You only posted some of the layering information but I'm guessing that the complete specs include ...

2" of polyfoam quilting (density unknown)
3" of Talalay latex (I would ask about the blend of the latex but it would probably be safe to assume that it's blended Talalay which is a high quality and durable material)
3" of Talalay latex (same comments as above)
4" 1.8 lb polyfoam support core. This is a good quality material and with 8" of foam above it then it also wouldn't be a weak link that would compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

While I can't speak to how a mattress will "feel" for someone else ... my only concern here relative to durability would be the thickness of the quilting layer which is usually a lower density material and in this case is slightly thicker than the guidelines here which suggest no more than "around an inch or so" of unknown or lower quality/density materials in the upper layers of a mattress or in a quilting layer (unless you have confirmed that the density of the polyfoam is suitable for your weight range).

Once you are at about 2" or more of lower quality/density or unknown polyfoam or memory foam in the upper layers of a mattress then the odds become higher that it could become a "weak link" in the mattress and reduce the durability and useful life of the mattress.

I looked at jamestown mattress for heavenly cloud. That seemed very nice/sturdy but PRICEY $2699.
2” Plush Polyurethane Foam
2” 100% Natural Medium (ILD 24-26) Latex
6” 100% Natural Medium (ILD 24-26) Latex Core


The latex in this mattress is 100% natural Dunlop which is also a high quality and durable material although Dunlop has different properties than Talalay and will generally "feel" differently. There is more about the differences between Talalay and Dunlop in post #7 here .

My comments would be the same with this mattress concerning the 2" layer of plush polyfoam and I would want to know the density of the polyfoam in this layer.

The specs you listed and that they list on their site only add up to 10" and the description says that the mattress is 12" thick so I would also make sure that there are no "missing layers" in the description.

Phoenix
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