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Done lots of research/testing but still lost in space. Need suggestions! 03 Jan 2016 19:02 #1

Hi all- fantastic forum and moderation. Truly impressive.

Trying to find recommendations on mattresses that might work for us. We were about to pull the trigger on a Simmons Recharge World Class Plush Pillow Top as it really is the feel we are looking for (and I've found it for $950 on sale until 1/6) but I, too, worried about longevity and am glad I found this site.

We love plush mattresses and have been focusing on innersprings as we have not found a foam mattress that has felt "just right" yet (and that wasn't $3,000+).

There aren't many local/regional manufacturers of innersprings -- I've checked your suggestions for my region (Capital District, NY). This leads me to the "disruptive" outfits which I have no problem dealing with given improved value over the big boys and a relatively risk-free trial.

My issue is this-- I have not found a disruptive outfit that offers "plush/pillowtop" level comfort with an innerspring. Any suggestions on where to look? What is the most plush millennial mattress (even if in foam)?


A little background (may or may not be useful):
We had a 2003 Sealy Posturepedic Davenport Ultra Plush Pillowtop which we absolutely loved (and is still in great shape). We decided to upgrade to a King, so that mattress is still in service in the guest room. The King we purchased is a 2014 Sealy Posturepedic Cushion Firm and it just isn't plush enough for us. We're still chasing that 2003 feel, but realize things aren't manufactured like that today.

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Done lots of research/testing but still lost in space. Need suggestions! 03 Jan 2016 20:59 #2

Hi InfMur,

Trying to find recommendations on mattresses that might work for us. We were about to pull the trigger on a Simmons Recharge World Class Plush Pillow Top as it really is the feel we are looking for (and I've found it for $950 on sale until 1/6) but I, too, worried about longevity and am glad I found this site.


I'm glad you found us before you ended up purchasing a major brand mattress which tend to use lower quality materials that would be a weak link in the mattress which can compromise the durability and useful life of the mattress.

My issue is this-- I have not found a disruptive outfit that offers "plush/pillowtop" level comfort with an innerspring. Any suggestions on where to look? What is the most plush millennial mattress (even if in foam)?


There are no "standard" definitions or consensus of opinions for firmness ratings and different manufacturers can rate their mattresses very differently than others so a mattress that one manufacturer rates as being a specific firmness could be rated very differently by another manufacturer. Different people can also have very different perceptions of firmness and softness compared to others as well and a mattress that feels firm for one person can feel like "medium" for someone else or even "soft" for someone else (or vice versa) depending on their body type, sleeping style, physiology, their frame of reference based on what they are used to, and their individual sensitivity and perceptions. There are also different types of firmness and softness that different people may be sensitive to that can affect how they "rate" a mattress as well (see post #15 here ) so different people can also have very different opinions on how two mattresses compare in terms of firmness and some people may rate one mattress as being firmer than another and someone else may rate them the other way around. This is all relative and very subjective and is as much an art as a science.

When you can't test a mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the properties and "feel" of the materials they are using (fast or slow response, resilience, firmness etc) and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked or other mattresses you are considering that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs and firmness levels to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences (or to other mattresses that they are familiar with) than anyone else.

The tutorial post also includes a list of the members here that sell mattresses online (in the optional online step) and several of them also sell pocket coil hybrid mattresses (using latex or memory foam comfort layers) that may be worth considering that use higher quality and more durable materials than both of the innerspring mattresses that are listed in the simplified choice list of mattresses . They include Baybed, Nest Bedding, Arizona Premium (mattresses.net), Flexus. and My Green Mattress.

We had a 2003 Sealy Posturepedic Davenport Ultra Plush Pillowtop which we absolutely loved (and is still in great shape). We decided to upgrade to a King, so that mattress is still in service in the guest room. The King we purchased is a 2014 Sealy Posturepedic Cushion Firm and it just isn't plush enough for us. We're still chasing that 2003 feel, but realize things aren't manufactured like that today.


I would keep in mind that a pillowtop is a method of construction and not a specific firmness rating or "feel". It describes a mattress that includes a separate layer or "topper" in its own compartment which is attached to the main body of the mattress with a recessed edge so that the "pillowtop" layer can act and compress a little bit more independently and would feel a little softer than if the same layer was inside the main body of a mattress. While "most" pillowtops are in a softer range ... they come in a very wide range of firmness options and some of them that use firmer materials in the pillow top attachment that would be in a firmer range as well. There are also some "non pillowtop" mattresses that would be softer than some pillowtop mattresses if they use softer materials in the upper layers of the mattress.

If you purchase a mattress that is too firm for you or if you want to "approximate" a pillowtop then you can also add a separate topper which would give you a "sleeping system" that is similar to a pillowtop (if the materials in the topper are similar to the materials in the pillowtop layer in a mattress).

While there is always some risk and uncertainty involved in adding a topper if you haven't tested the combination in person because the specifics of the mattress itself along with your own body type, sleeping position, and preferences can affect which specific topper would be a suitable choice on any specific mattress ... if you do decide to add a separate topper to a mattress then there is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to which along with a conversation with a reliable supplier that can provide you with good information about how their toppers compare to each other or to other toppers they are familiar with that are available on the market can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. It also includes a link to a list of some of the better online sources for toppers I'm aware of and a link to the online suppliers that have good exchange/return policies as well.

If a mattress/topper combination is a good "match" for you in terms of "comfort and PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and your Personal preferences) then it also has the advantage of being able to replace just the topper without replacing the entire mattress if it softens or breaks down before the upper foam layers in the mattress (which is very likely because the upper layers or a sleeping system tend to soften or break down before the deeper layers) or if your needs or preferences change over time and a topper can also help extend the useful life of the mattress underneath it as well.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Done lots of research/testing but still lost in space. Need suggestions! 05 Jan 2016 07:27 #3

Thanks for the reply. Are you suggesting that I should look into toppers for our "too-firm" bed that's just 1 year old? I've thought about this too.

I did call Quality Sleep Shop but I feel it's a bit of a shot in the dark (albeit a slightly informed one) to describe a mattress "feel" that we like and have them try to match it up with something they offer... Am I unique in this? They suggested a)Emily Pillow Top b) Catherine Latex c) Everlast Pillow Top. I have no problem making the order, but would feel really bad if it didn't work out for whatever reason.

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Done lots of research/testing but still lost in space. Need suggestions! 05 Jan 2016 08:22 #4

Also, I'm looking for foam specs (LB) or as much info as I can get on the Simmons Recharge World Class Plush Pillowtop (in the local store, the name was Lac La Belle, though I know that doesn't mean much).

This looks pretty darn similar but it isn't a pillow top.

The folks at MGM are trying to help me match up one of their offerings as best as possible.

Thanks!

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Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Done lots of research/testing but still lost in space. Need suggestions! 05 Jan 2016 08:28 #5

Hi InfMur,

Thanks for the reply. Are you suggesting that I should look into toppers for our "too-firm" bed that's just 1 year old? I've thought about this too.


If your mattress is still in good condition and there are no soft spots or sagging in the mattress and the only issue with your mattress is that it is too firm and you just need some additional softness and pressure relief then a softer topper can certainly be a good solution and is much less costly then buying a whole new mattress.

I did call Quality Sleep Shop but I feel it's a bit of a shot in the dark (albeit a slightly informed one) to describe a mattress "feel" that we like and have them try to match it up with something they offer... Am I unique in this? They suggested a)Emily Pillow Top b) Catherine Latex c) Everlast Pillow Top. I have no problem making the order, but would feel really bad if it didn't work out for whatever reason.


When you can't test a mattress in person or even if you can but you aren't confident that the mattress would be a good "match" for you in terms of firmness, "comfort" and PPP then the exchange return policy of the retailer or manufacturer (and any costs involved) can reduce the "risk" involved in making an unsuitable choice and can be one of the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase so you can test the mattress in your bedroom instead of a showroom and the "risk" involved would be the time you spend sleeping on the mattress along with the cost of returning or exchanging the mattress if it didn't work out as well as you hoped for.

Some people are comfortable with an online purchase and any additional risk involved and some people aren't ... it really depends on the risk tolerance of the person and on how the online purchase compares to any local purchases you are considering based on all the parts of your " personal value equation " that are most important to you.

The mattresses they suggested to you certainly use higher quality and more durable materials than the Sealy Posturepedic mattress you purchased (which like almost all major brand mattresses uses lower quality and less durable materials that are a "weak link" in the mattress) but the quality and durability of the materials in a mattress are a completely separate issue than "comfort" and PPP because lower quality materials can feel the same as higher quality materials ... they just don't maintain their comfort and support for nearly as long and will likely need to be replaced much more quickly.

This looks pretty darn similar but it isn't a pillow top.


If you click on the "overview" link you will see the specs of the foam materials inside it which would be fairly typical of all of the Recharge mattresses (and most other major brand mattresses as well). If you compare the density of these materials in the upper layers ...

1 1/4" Prestressed Quiltlux foam .7LB
3/4" Gel Touch 1.5LB
1 1/2" Gel AirCool Memory Foam 2LB
1 1/2" Prestressed Energy foam 1.2LB

... to the foam quality/density guidelines here you will see that they are all either low or very low quality materials and having 5" of low or very low quality/density materials in the upper layers any mattress would be an obvious weak link in the mattress in terms of the durability and useful life of the mattress and would certainly be a good reason to avoid it.

There is also more information about the 3 most important parts of "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability (how well you will sleep), durability (how long you will sleep well), and the overall value of a mattress compared to your other finalists based on suitability, durability, and all the other parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you (including the price of course and the options you have available after a purchase if your choice doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for).

If I was in your shoes and the only issue with your mattress is that it is too firm then I would probably lean towards trying a topper to save the cost of buying a whole new mattress. Even though there would be some uncertainty and risk involved in choosing a topper that would work well for you in combination with your mattress ... the exchange/return policy of the retailer or manufacturer you purchase from can also help to offset the risk of purchasing a topper as well.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

Last edit: by Administrator. Reason: Updating link to https: status

Done lots of research/testing but still lost in space. Need suggestions! 01 Apr 2016 07:51 #6

Reporting back: I tried a 3" talalay latex topper and it didn't work out. Started sagging after 2 months. I just returned it, leaving just the mattress underneath and neither my wife (who's 8 months pregnant) nor I slept a wink last night.

My last-ditch effort to get something as close as possible to our old mattress is this-- would anyone in this forum know what the materials (foam density, coil info, etc) are for the (roughly 2003) Sealy Posturepedic Davenport Ultra Plush Pillowtop?

Then I might be able to search for something as close as possible.

Otherwise, I'm going to need to order one based on our preferences and your guide tonight/tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help!

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Last edit: by InfMur.

Done lots of research/testing but still lost in space. Need suggestions! 01 Apr 2016 08:13 #7

PS: I'm on the phone with Sealy right now and they REFUSE to give me specs on the thickness/density/types of foams in ANY of their mattresses (despite having purchased two from them).

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Done lots of research/testing but still lost in space. Need suggestions! 01 Apr 2016 10:44 #8

Hi InfMur,

Reporting back: I tried a 3" talalay latex topper and it didn't work out. Started sagging after 2 months. I just returned it, leaving just the mattress underneath and neither my wife (who's 8 months pregnant) nor I slept a wink last night.


Latex in general is the most durable of all the foam materials and if your topper had visible impressions after only 2 months (with the topper on a firm flat surface such as the floor) then it would be one of those rare instances where the topper was defective.

If you are talking about "virtual" impressions or soft spots where you are sinking into the mattress/topper combination too much then it would be more likely that there is some foam softening in the mattress underneath the topper (generally under the heavier areas under your body) or that your topper was too soft and/or too thick to be a good "match" for you in terms of PPP.

My last-ditch effort to get something as close as possible to our old mattress is this-- would anyone in this forum know what the materials (foam density, coil info, etc) are for the (roughly 2003) Sealy Posturepedic Davenport Ultra Plush Pillowtop?

'

As you mentioned in your next post Sealy doesn't provide this information to their customers no matter how many mattresses you purchase from them (which is one of the reasons that I would generally avoid them along with the other major brands as well) but even if they did it wouldn't be enough information to be able to "duplicate" the feel and firmness of your older mattress anyway because all the layers and components in a mattress will have some effect on all the other layers and components in the mattress and the mattress "as a whole" and the two mattresses you are comparing would be different from each other in other ways besides just the thickness and firmness of the top layer.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

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Done lots of research/testing but still lost in space. Need suggestions! 01 Apr 2016 11:18 #9

I just ordered a Brooklyn Bedding - Soft. I'll report back on how we fare with it.

Thanks for all the help.

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Done lots of research/testing but still lost in space. Need suggestions! 01 Apr 2016 11:53 #10

Hi InfMur,

I just ordered a Brooklyn Bedding - Soft. I'll report back on how we fare with it.


Congratulations on your new mattress :)

As you know I think you made a great quality/value choice and I'm looking forward to your comments and feedback once you've received it and have had the chance to sleep on it for a bit.

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
Click here for TMU Discount Codes if purchasing from Our Trusted Members.
For any mattress questions Ask An Expert on our forum

Please Log in or Create an account to join the conversation.

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