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100% Natural Talalay Latex 08 Apr 2016 18:07 #21

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Hi MFC Memory Foam Comfort,

Since there are no rubber trees in Europe or North America the rubber tree milk needs to be transported. Talalay is a complex process and is either processed in Europe, or in North America. Therefor technically it cannot be certified organic due to the fact the a stabilizer needs to be added to the rubber tree milk to prevent it from spoiling during transportation.


An organic certification allows up to 5% of the formulation to be "non organic" materials (excluding synthetic rubber). While all field latex (including the field latex that is used to produce organic latex) uses some ammonia because it's generally added to the collection cups in the plantation ... ammonia is only used in small amounts that are less than 1% and are even less for low ammoniated latex (see here) so it would be possible to produce organic Talalay latex that has "some" ammonia added to it for stabilization during shipping as long as the total organic rubber content in a final product was 95% or higher and the final product still meets all the other GOLS certified organic criteria .
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100% Natural Talalay Latex 08 Apr 2016 20:20 #22

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This Cradle to Cradle certificate is actually great news, in addition to the OekoTex 100 certificate.

As a business that specializes in 'organic' products I have to say that organic
certificates don't always mean an awful lot as they are not legitimate safety certificates and many times do not even require lab testing for VOC's or VVOC's.

The Radium natural talalay definitely is a superior product and I appreciate the certificates that are backed by sound science.

MFC you are right, about why there likely will not be a GOLS certificate for natural talalay, maybe if the manufacture was done on site it would be possible, the question is whether there is a legitimate benefit.

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100% Natural Talalay Latex 08 Apr 2016 20:39 #23

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Hi [email protected],

Just for reference ... in one of the conversations I had with Radium in Holland I brought up the subject of whether "in theory" they would be able to acquire an organic certification for their 100% natural Talalay because the question often comes up. They told me there was no inherent reason why they couldn't but that it didn't make economic sense including because they would need to source their latex from an organic plantation and they would need to separate their production lines (you can't make organic certified latex in the same production facility as you make blended latex). While they wouldn't need to manufacture the latex on a production site that was near the plantation ... as you also mentioned the benefits (economic and otherwise) would be questionable

Now that they have the Cradle to Cradle Gold certification which in effect combines most of the benefits of both worlds there would be even less of a reason to pursue an organic certification.

Talalay Global on the other hand uses fillers in their latex so unlike Radium they wouldn't meet the 95% organic rubber criteria that is required for an organic certification even if they were sourcing their latex from an organic plantation and had separate production lines.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

100% Natural Talalay Latex 09 Apr 2016 07:12 #24

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I really can't add to much to he previous comments from Phoenix.

I will mention that last fall I spoke with a mattress manufacturer using the Radium Talalay and they considered the (at that time) Cradle to Cradle Silver a superior certification to a potential GOLS. I also asked about the potential for a GOLS down the road, and while they mentioned it was certainly possible, they only stated that they were "in discussions" about it. I believe, for the reasons already mentioned in the post by Phoenix, that there would have to be quite a large demand for such a certification that would compel a latex company to dedicate an entire manufacturing section to this one form of Talalay.

The PTB/TG natural Talalay, while previously advertised as "organic," was not Cradle to Cradle nor GOLS certified for the reasons Phoenix mentioned. In the current PTB line their natural Talalay has been eliminated, and I don't know if TG is even producing a natural Talalay at this time. I know in my previous conversations with those at PTB it was never brough up as something that was really important to them in their marketing to pusue a Talalay that met more stringent certifications. But you never know what is going on behind the scenes and I of course don't have access to forward-looking information like that (and even if I did I ethically/legally couldn't share it).
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Last edit: by MattressToGo. Reason: spelling

100% Natural Talalay Latex 11 Apr 2016 20:29 #25

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Hi Daniel,
I get the feeling that your a little disappointed by some of the Organic certifications

In the case of Organic latex certification GOLS, (Global Organic Latex Standard) it's the single most important certification in the latex mattress industry, as it covers organic, purity, environmental and labor parameters in one certification. The two most important aspects of GOLS are that it forbids the use of synthetic latex and it guarantees the latex to be free of diluent fillers such as chalk.

You are correct that GOLS does not test for VOC's or VVOC's but in the case of the organic latex sold by Nature's Embrace the tests and certifications are done by Eco-Institut and actually have a lower TVOC threshold than Cradle to Cradle.
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Both GOLS and Eco test for Organic and or Natural Latex polymer content. For GOLS 95% purity is required . Eco has a variety of tests and levels of certification.

We agree that both Organic Dunlop and Radium latex are by far the finest natural bedding products on the market. However for purity it seams only GOLS and Eco-Institut test for content of at least 95% Natural/Organic latex polymer in order to give a certification.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the cradle to cradle gold certification does not require a content test, but only a absence of banned chemical test?

To come back to my original question, how can a customer be certain that he is buying 100% latex, if there is no independent testing or certification for content?

your thoughts?

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100% Natural Talalay Latex 12 Apr 2016 13:28 #26

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Hi MFC Memory Foam Comfort,

While I'm not Daniel of course ... I can add a few comments ...

In the case of Organic latex certification GOLS, (Global Organic Latex Standard) it's the single most important certification in the latex mattress industry, as it covers organic, purity, environmental and labor parameters in one certification. The two most important aspects of GOLS are that it forbids the use of synthetic latex and it guarantees the latex to be free of diluent fillers such as chalk.


There are many people in the industry that I talk with that probably wouldn't agree with you on this. An organic certification has little to nothing to do with the quality or performance of a product (it's virtually identical to the same material that doesn't have an organic certification) even though it adds to the cost of a product. It also doesn't test the final product for harmful substances or VOC's (although of course an organic product would generally be considered as safe ... there is nothing to "prove" it) so it would require a second certification (such as Eco-Institut as you mentioned) to confirm that there are no harmful substances or VOC's in the final product. In other words there are many people in the industry that question the "value" of an organic certification vs the same material that doesn't have an organic certification and in the industry as a whole I think that there are many more people that are concerned with the "safety" of a mattress than whether it has an organic certification.

As a single certification the C2C gold certification tests for harmful substances and VOC's and includes social and environmental considerations as well (similar to GOLS) for those where this is an important part of a purchase choice and the only additional benefits of the GOLS certification that I can see vs the C2C gold certification (outside of knowing that the raw field latex used to make the latex was certified organic) is that it also includes a requirement that the product contains 95% or more natural latex.

In other words ... both C2C and GOLS may require a second certification to satisfy some of the criteria that may be important to a customer. In the case of C2C Gold it could require a second certification that includes natural latex content and in the case of GOLS it could require a second certification that includes specific testing for harmful substances and VOC's.

To come back to my original question, how can a customer be certain that he is buying 100% latex, if there is no independent testing or certification for content?

your thoughts?


Assuming that you mean 100% natural latex (rather than 100% latex because synthetic latex is just as much "latex" as natural latex) ... the most obvious answer would be that a customer that is only willing to consider a product that contains 100% natural latex (without any synthetic latex) and requires some type of "proof" of the natural latex content of a product (outside of a manufacturers description) would probably purchase a product that has a certification that includes the level of "proof" that they are comfortable with.

For those consumers where 100% natural latex is a primary consideration for reasons other than safety (synthetic latex is also a very safe material and in general will pass the same "safety" certifications as natural latex) ... then certifications such as QUL, Eco-Institut, and GOLS that confirm the natural latex content would probably be more important.

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Last edit: by phoenix.

100% Natural Talalay Latex 12 Apr 2016 18:24 #27

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Hi Phoenix,

Yes I agree with you that there are many more customers that are concerned with the "safety" of a mattress than whether it has an organic certification. However we need to keep in mind that the organic movement is gaining ground and more people are becoming conscious of the importance of buying pure, chemical free products and supporting fair environmental and labor practices. A growing number of consumers are now hypersensitive and require chemical free products in order to live normal lives.

On a final note, it would be a great advantage for the manufacturers of 100% natural Talalay, to get a simple certification that confirms, that their product is composed of 100% natural Talalay. Just like the Organic latex manufacturers have to prove that their product is made of organic materials.

Thank you for your all comments, I can put my question to rest :)

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100% Natural Talalay Latex 14 Apr 2016 09:07 #28

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Can anyone supply us with a Material Health Certificate for the new Gold rated product? If not, can anyone just tell us the difference between the Silver and the Gold? Someone suggested in might all be in the environmental category. Is that correct?

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100% Natural Talalay Latex 14 Apr 2016 09:33 #29

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Dear Ms. Frieke Heens,

Is the Gold ready for shipping now?

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100% Natural Talalay Latex 14 Apr 2016 10:38 #30

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rubyred wrote:

Mr. Frieke Heens,

Frieke is female, not male.
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Where can we get a copy of the new 2 page Material Health Certificate for the new Gold Radium Foam Talalay product?

The new approval certificate is located here .

Here's the page that shows everything about the new Gold certification.

The difference in standard level is located here .

The Cradle to Cradle Certified Product Standard, Version 3.1, is located here .

There's an incredible amount of information on the Cradle to Cradle site about their testing procedures. You should have some fun pouring through that.

Is the Gold ready for shipping now? Any typically how long with the Gold product run? How long was the Silver product made if you recall? 2,3, 5 years?

Ms. Heens does not work for Radium. She is a scientific project manager at EPEA Nederland. You would need to contact someone at Radium for an answer to this particular question, or perhaps a manufacturer using this foam to see when they start using it.

Hopefully that information is helpful.
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
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