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Fix or exchange 05 Oct 2015 15:06 #1

  • Suzie2
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We bought a Natura Circadian (equivalent to Revive) about 3 weeks ago after a bad experience with a good quality memory foam mattress we bought just 9 months ago.
Both my husband and I are finding the Ciradian to be unbearable firm (core 6" plant foam 5 lb density/2" talalay medium (ILD of 26-32 ) with topper a quilt of 2.3 lbs wool and 1" plant foam with 3lb rating). We've since added a wool topper to it, but it really hasn't softened it like I hoped and it has a cotton protector.. I suffer from fibromyalgia, so need something supportive, yet soft and found the memory foam was fine at first, but awful later as once I 'sank in, I couldn't comfortably move and got even sorer and developed a bad back. Both my husband and I also found it slept way too hot for us.

My question is - what to do with this mattress, since we only have a month left to figure it out. The options are:
(a)give it more time for our bodies to adjust. SA and Natura suggested this, but I'm not sure it is ever going to get soft enough for me and am now sure I can continue sleeping badly....with no guarantee it will change.
(b) add a 2" talalay topper (considering the Berekley Ergonomics one), but in Canada it is around $1400 and not returnable - I'm just not sure if this will help enough though. Should look at a thicker one? Is it even worth trying to fix the Circadian from a long-term value and quality of it perspective?
(c) call it a loss, and exchange the mattress now for the only other one they have, the Natura EcoOrganics EcoBalance (all latex - core: 6 " 25 ILD Dunlop , 2" talalay medium, 20-32 ILD, 1" talalay soft ILD 18-24 with cover at 4.2 wool) - though that comes with considerably bigger price tag than buying a topper and is also not able to be exchanged further. I tried this is the store and it is definitely softer and more comfortable, though, of note, in the store the Circadian felt firmer, but not too much so after 1/2 hour too - its aleeping the whole night that creates the issue).
We don't mind spending the money if we will also be getting a better mattress overall, and are stuck with these two choices for latex beds given the return of our other mattress and a store discount they offered which would be negated if we went elsewhere, (and then we'd already lose the money we've spent on 2 beds so far!)

Thank you! .

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Fix or exchange 05 Oct 2015 18:50 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi Suzie2,

Both my husband and I are finding the Ciradian to be unbearable firm (core 6" plant foam 5 lb density/2" talalay medium (ILD of 26-32 ) with topper a quilt of 2.3 lbs wool and 1" plant foam with 3lb rating).


I believe that these specs are incorrect since the polyfoam base layer certainly wouldn't be 5 lb density (it's probably 1.55 lb density) and the polyfoam used in the quilting is probably 1.3 lb density (see post #55 here for the density of the base layer and post #5 here for the probable density of the quilting layer). Although they are "reasonably" good quality materials and wouldn't normally be a weak link for those that are in more average weight ranges (not more than the lower 200's or so) ... for those that are in a higher weight range and with only 2" or latex in the comfort layers I would normally prefer a higher density base foam (especially in this budget range where a higher density base foam should be the norm)

Your mattress is also a latex/polyfoam hybrid that only contains 2" of latex and wouldn't be at all similar to the Natura EcoRevive here which is an all latex mattress that doesn't contain any polyfoam.

We've since added a wool topper to it, but it really hasn't softened it like I hoped and it has a cotton protector.. I suffer from fibromyalgia, so need something supportive, yet soft and found the memory foam was fine at first, but awful later as once I 'sank in, I couldn't comfortably move and got even sorer and developed a bad back. Both my husband and I also found it slept way too hot for us.


A wool topper can add some "surface softness" but it can also affect the ability of the foam layers underneath it to contour to the shape of your body which can result in a firmer feeling as well so you could have a combination of a slightly softer top surface but a firmer feeling mattress overall. There is more about wool toppers in post #8 here .

The mattress you purchased also doesn't contain memory foam and is a latex/polyfoam hybrid and since latex is a very resilient material and doesn't have a slow response and isn't temperature sensitive like memory foam it would be very unusual that someone wasn't able to move comfortably on the mattress so I'm not sure what may be happening here.

It is also unusual that someone would sleep warm on a latex mattress with a wool quilted cotton cover so I'm not sure what may be happening here either. Your experience almost sounds similar to some people's experience on a memory foam mattress more than a latex hybrid and it may be worth checking the law tag to make sure that your mattress contains latex and not memory foam.

While it's not always possible to to track down temperature regulation issues for any particular person on a specific mattress because there are so many variables involved (including your room temperature and humidity, your sheets and bedding and bedclothes, your mattress protector or any mattress pads you are using, and where you are in the "oven to iceberg" range) and some people can sleep warmer on mattresses that most people are generally fine with ... there is more about tracking down a potential cause or causes for temperature regulation issues (at least to the degree possible for a specific mattress) in post #2 here and the posts it links to that may be helpful.

My question is - what to do with this mattress, since we only have a month left to figure it out. The options are:
(a)give it more time for our bodies to adjust. SA and Natura suggested this, but I'm not sure it is ever going to get soft enough for me and am now sure I can continue sleeping badly....with no guarantee it will change.


If your mattress is still "unbearably firm" after 3 weeks and there are no other reasons that would account for this (see post #2 here ) then I think it would be reasonable to think that it won't get much softer than it already is.

(b) add a 2" talalay topper (considering the Berekley Ergonomics one), but in Canada it is around $1400 and not returnable - I'm just not sure if this will help enough though. Should look at a thicker one? Is it even worth trying to fix the Circadian from a long-term value and quality of it perspective?


If the only issue with your mattress is that it's too firm and you just need some extra softness and pressure relief then a topper can certainly be an effective solution and while there are too many unknowns and variables and personal preferences involved for me to make any specific suggestions ... there is more information about choosing a topper in post #2 here and the topper guidelines it links to that can help you use your sleeping experience as a reference point and guideline to help you choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that has the least possible risk and the best chance for success. It also includes a link to a list of some of the better online sources for toppers I'm aware of as well and post #21 here also includes a list of some of the better sources for toppers I'm aware of that ship across Canada as well.

(c) call it a loss, and exchange the mattress now for the only other one they have, the Natura EcoOrganics EcoBalance (all latex - core: 6 " 25 ILD Dunlop , 2" talalay medium, 20-32 ILD, 1" talalay soft ILD 18-24 with cover at 4.2 wool) - though that comes with considerably bigger price tag than buying a topper and is also not able to be exchanged further.

I tried this is the store and it is definitely softer and more comfortable, though, of note, in the store the Circadian felt firmer, but not too much so after 1/2 hour too - its aleeping the whole night that creates the issue).


I can't tell you what you "should do" because the first "rule" of mattress shopping is to remember that you are the only one that can feel what you feel on a mattress and there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved that are unique to each person to use a formula or for anyone to be able to predict or make a specific suggestion or recommendation about which mattress or combination of materials and components or which type of mattress would be the best "match" for you in terms of "comfort" or PPP or how a mattress will "feel" to you or compare to another mattress based on specs (either yours or a mattress) or "theory at a distance" that can possibly be more accurate than your own careful testing (hopefully using the testing guidelines in step 4 of the tutorial) or your own personal sleeping experience (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

Whether this would be a good option for you would really depend on your "risk tolerance" and how confident you are that the EcoBalance would be a good "match" for you in terms of "comfort" and PPP because you would have little recourse afterwards if it doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for outside of adding a topper (it it's also too firm).

We don't mind spending the money if we will also be getting a better mattress overall, and are stuck with these two choices for latex beds given the return of our other mattress and a store discount they offered which would be negated if we went elsewhere, (and then we'd already lose the money we've spent on 2 beds so far!)


While again these types of choices are really "best judgement" decisions that would depend on each person's confidence and risk tolerance and each person may have very different criteria ... if I was in your shoes I would probably lean towards adding a topper to your mattress because of the lower cost and risk involved.

Phoenix
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Fix or exchange 05 Oct 2015 20:10 #3

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Thank you so much Phoenix. I guess Natura provided me with the wrong specs as I copied and pasted them from my email. Ironically, the link you provided entitled 'shopping in the great Toronto area' has a description on one of the pages of the Circadia Ibed I am referring to which is also from Sleep Country. In your response to that writer, you indicate the core density is on the low side at 1.55 (which is what they told him it was, if we can believe that, given the info they gave me) Do your thoughts on it still being worth adding a topper to change at all given that info? My weight is average, but my husbands would be is the low 200's. And he is a stomach sleeper vs my back/side preference.
Of course for cost, I would prefer buying a topper, but just really just wasn't sure if it was putting good money after bad., I do appreciate an expert opinion not telling me that it is a horrible idea in any case., ;-) ;though I realize comfort is personal. I mentioned the Berkley topper as it got good reviews and I believe I can go to the store and try it (tho obviously not on our bed) so will get a sense as to how it feels at least. The only 3" ones I can find are not try-able. I am just concerned that 3" would then make ithe whole bed too soft over time.
Oh and for clarification, it was our previous Sealy memory foam bed that slept hot, this one is fine, in fact remarkably better!
Thanks again.. You provide a wonderful service in the unbelievably complex world of mattress buying.

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Last edit: by Suzie2.

Fix or exchange 05 Oct 2015 21:02 #4

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Hi Suzie2,

Ironically, the link you provided entitled 'shopping in the great Toronto area' has a description on one of the pages of the Circadia Ibed I am referring to which is also from Sleep Country. In your response to that writer, you indicate the core density is on the low side at 1.55 (which is what they told him it was, if we can believe that, given the info they gave me) Do your thoughts on it still being worth adding a topper to change at all given that info? My weight is average, but my husbands would be is the low 200's. And he is a stomach sleeper vs my back/side preference.


Thanks for correcting the specs I listed. I've edited the numbers and the comments and link in my previous post since they were for a different mattress and the density that Natura provided for your specific mattress was probably correct. I also added a link to more information about wool toppers in my previous reply.

Do your thoughts on it still being worth adding a topper to change at all given that info? My weight is average, but my husbands would be is the low 200's. And he is a stomach sleeper vs my back/side preference.


With a 2" - 3" topper on top of the 2" of latex in your mattress you would have thicker layers on top of the base foam which would improve its durability (since the thicker layers would be absorbing most of the compression forces) so while I still would have preferred a higher density base foam for a mattress in this budget range ... with the topper and since your husband is only in the lower 200's I think you would probably be OK so the topper option would still be what I would lean towards unless you are completely confident that the EcoRevive would be a suitable choice for you because it's certainly a higher quality mattress (although it's also not particularly good "value" compared to other all latex mattresses).

With your husbands stomach sleeping he may need a firmer mattress and I would be somewhat cautious with adding a topper that is too thick and/or soft because stomach sleepers are more prone to sleeping in a swayback position if their pelvis sinks down into the mattress too deeply which can lead to lower back discomfort or pain. It can also help stomach sleepers to sleep with a thin pillow under their pelvis and lower abdomen to help maintain neutral spinal alignment and prevent sleeping in a swayback position. Because of his stomach sleeping it may be a good idea to start with a 2" topper (which is also less costly) and then you can add an additional topper if you find that one or both of you need it.

Oh and for clarification, it was our previous Sealy memory foam bed that slept hot, this one is fine, in fact remarkably better!


Thanks for clarifying this as well ... you had me a little confused :)

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Fix or exchange 06 Oct 2015 08:20 #5

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I've read your links and be comparison shopping today and report back on how it worked.....Thanks again.

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Fix or exchange 06 Oct 2015 11:24 #6

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Hi Suzie2,

I'm looking forward to finding out what you end up deciding and how things work out :)

Phoenix
Researching for a mattress?... Be sure to read The Mattress Shopping Tutorial.
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