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Feedback Requested: Jamestown Mattress, polyfoam, & thoughts towards online purchase 16 Jun 2015 07:54 #1

  • diversification
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Hi there,

I am located in Western NY and I've begun my mattress search at Jamestown Mattress, after doing a decent amount of reading here. I've read through most of the guides, that massive "start here" type post you made with all the links to different threads, and I also searched the forums for more specific information such as all the threads mentioning Jamestown Mattress.

If it matters, I'm a slim-build, late 20s male, sitting around 175 lbs, in decent shape (and improving,) with some lower back issues that I've managed to drastically reduce through proper stretching and core strengthening. I have postural issues that I really need to get worked out (anterior pelvic tilt, and computer guy posture) I currently sleep on a fairly firm twin innerspring mattress which I believe just uses a pillow-top for comfort (nothing fancy to be sure.) I am primarily a back sleeper, but probably about 30% of the time I'm also on my front. I side-sleep occasionally, but it's far less important.

These threads made me a bit nervous about what I'd find at Jamestown Matress:
Polyurethane in the quilting
Another one mentioning the polyfoam

Still, I decided to stop in and see for myself. When I dropped in and inquired after mattresses using latex for comfort layers, and either innerspring or latex support layers (I've never liked memory foam, and I don't want much polyfoam for obvious reasons,) I was directed to the Majestic Dream (Innerspring support layer w/ latex comfort layer) and the Heavenly Cloud firm and Heavenly Cloud plush (latex support layer w/ latex comfort layer.) All 3 felt like options that may interest me, so I'll need to go back for further testing.

In the meantime, I called one of the key members in the mattress production process (Steve) who emailed me the detailed specs upon my request. They are listed, below.
Majestic Dream: www.jamestownmattress.com/majestic-dream/
Quilted Panel:
1. 2” Plush Polyurethane Foam – 1.8 lb. density – 21 ILD

Comfort Padding Layer:
1. Thick Polyester Fiber Pad – 1.8 oz per sq ft polyester fiber pad – 1” thick
2. 1” Plush Polyurethane Foam – 1.5 lb. density – 15 ILD
3. 2” 100% Natural Medium Firmness Latex – Dunlop – 100% natural latex imported in from Sri Lanka - www.arpicolatexfoam.com/ - 24 – 26 ILD.

Back Support System:
High Density Polyurethane Foam Encasement – 1.8 lb density – 60 ILD
Heavenly Cloud Soft: www.jamestownmattress.com/plus-latex-one-sided-heavenly-cloud-mattress/
Quilted Panel:
Same polyurethane foam as in the Majestic Dream above

Comfort Padding Layer:
2” 100% Natural Super Soft Latex – Dunlop – 100% natural latex imported in from Sri Lanka - www.arpicolatexfoam.com/ - 14 – 16 ILD

Back Support System:
High Density Polyurethane Foam Encasement – 1.8 lb density – 60 ILD
6” 100% Natural Medium Firmness Latex – Dunlop – 100% natural latex imported in from Sri Lanka - www.arpicolatexfoam.com/ - 24 – 26 ILD.
Heavenly Cloud Firm: www.jamestownmattress.com/firm-latex-one-sided-heavenly-cloud-mattress/
Quilted Panel:
Same polyurethane foam as in the Majestic Dream above

Comfort Padding Layer:
2” 100% Natural Medium Firmness Latex – Dunlop – 100% natural latex imported in from Sri Lanka - www.arpicolatexfoam.com/ - 24 – 26 ILD.

Back Support System:
High Density Polyurethane Foam Encasement – 1.8 lb density – 60 ILD
6” 100% Natural Medium Firmness Latex – Dunlop – 100% natural latex imported in from Sri Lanka - www.arpicolatexfoam.com/ - 24 – 26 ILD.
Major concerns:
1) The thicknesses listed do not add up to the mattress thickness listed. Here's the math for the Heavenly Cloud Firm: 2" polyfoam quilting + 2" latex comfort + 6" latex support = 10" but the mattress is listed as 12" on the website. This either means that the polyfoam encasement is 2" or there's some other unknown in there.

2) If we assume that the polyfoam encasement is 2" that means that there's 4" polyfoam in the Heavenly Cloud mattresses, and 6" polyfoam in the Majestic Dream.

3) The prices are VERY steep when compared to some of the online options that don't use all that polyfoam.

Speaking of concern #3 (above) I found this very thought provoking thread .

From here, I think I'll look up some additional recommended online sellers to compare to SleepEZ, and I'll also jump back to the list of recommended stores in the Western NY area and give a few calls in hopes of finding some more worthwhile mattresses for testing.

Just a few more notes on Jamestown Mattress: when I spoke with Steve he let me know he could make the Heavenly Cloud with a zipper for the comfort layer - this would enable me to remove/replace it with a different firmness, or replace it if it wears out before the rest of the bed. Obviously this is quite appealing so long as they still warranty it the same way (I know warranties really don't mean much, but still.) I was considering having a discussion about reducing the amount of polyfoam in the mattress, but I don't know if that's even worthwhile because it could drastically change the feel of the mattress, so at that point, why wouldn't I just go with a much cheaper online option? Also, it's highly unlikely they'd warranty that type of custom project.

I realize I haven't really asked many questions in this thread. That's because I'm more just looking for feedback on what I've said (which you seem to be good at providing,) so I hope the way I've set up this post is alright.

Thanks for all the great info that's helped me so much already.

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Last edit: by diversification.

Feedback Requested: Jamestown Mattress, polyfoam, & thoughts towards online purchase 16 Jun 2015 10:36 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi diversification,

I've made a few comments that may be helpful in your research.

Majestic Dream: www.jamestownmattress.com/majestic-dream/
Quilted Panel:
1. 2” Plush Polyurethane Foam – 1.8 lb. density – 21 ILD

Comfort Padding Layer:
1. Thick Polyester Fiber Pad – 1.8 oz per sq ft polyester fiber pad – 1” thick
2. 1” Plush Polyurethane Foam – 1.5 lb. density – 15 ILD
3. 2” 100% Natural Medium Firmness Latex – Dunlop – 100% natural latex imported in from Sri Lanka - www.arpicolatexfoam.com/ - 24 – 26 ILD.

Back Support System:
High Density Polyurethane Foam Encasement – 1.8 lb density – 60 ILD


While the specs don't include the thickness of the pocket coil so you can't confirm that they add up to the thickness of the mattress ... there is only 1" of polyfoam that is less than 1.8 lb density (and it's 1.5 lb) so based on the specs that you listed there would be no cause for concern or "weak links" in the mattress.

Heavenly Cloud Soft: jamestownmattress.com/plus-latex-one-sided-heavenly-cloud-mattress/
Quilted Panel:
Same polyurethane foam as in the Majestic Dream above

Comfort Padding Layer:
2” 100% Natural Super Soft Latex – Dunlop – 100% natural latex imported in from Sri Lanka - www.arpicolatexfoam.com/ - 14 – 16 ILD

Back Support System:
High Density Polyurethane Foam Encasement – 1.8 lb density – 60 ILD
6” 100% Natural Medium Firmness Latex – Dunlop – 100% natural latex imported in from Sri Lanka - www.arpicolatexfoam.com/ - 24 – 26 ILD.


This mattress has no lower quality materials or weak links in the design at all so with the materials that are listed there would be no cause for any concern here either.

Heavenly Cloud Firm: jamestownmattress.com/firm-latex-one-sided-heavenly-cloud-mattress/
Quilted Panel:
Same polyurethane foam as in the Majestic Dream above

Comfort Padding Layer:
2” 100% Natural Medium Firmness Latex – Dunlop – 100% natural latex imported in from Sri Lanka - www.arpicolatexfoam.com/ - 24 – 26 ILD.

Back Support System:
High Density Polyurethane Foam Encasement – 1.8 lb density – 60 ILD
6” 100% Natural Medium Firmness Latex – Dunlop – 100% natural latex imported in from Sri Lanka - www.arpicolatexfoam.com/ - 24 – 26 ILD.


Same comments as the Heavenly Cloud Soft..

1) The thicknesses listed do not add up to the mattress thickness listed. Here's the math for the Heavenly Cloud Firm: 2" polyfoam quilting + 2" latex comfort + 6" latex support = 10" but the mattress is listed as 12" on the website. This either means that the polyfoam encasement is 2" or there's some other unknown in there.


A foam encasement is used around a support core (either an innerspring or in this case latex) to create a firmer edge and is the same thickness as the support core itself so it isn't a separate layer in the mattress. The missing 2" would include the thickness of the fire barrier, the cover fabric, and any other layers that are missing from the description. I would also want to know what they are as well.

2) If we assume that the polyfoam encasement is 2" that means that there's 4" polyfoam in the Heavenly Cloud mattresses, and 6" polyfoam in the Majestic Dream.


Again the encasement is polyfoam that is wrapped around the edge of the support core to create a firmer edge and isn't a separate layer. The thickness of any polyfoam in a mattress isn't an issue if the polyfoam is a good quality and durable material. It's only an issue if the polyfoam is a lower quality./density material.

3) The prices are VERY steep when compared to some of the online options that don't use all that polyfoam.


The price of a mattress is certainly an important part of the "value" of a mattress purchase but it is only one of many. There is more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses.

The first step is to eliminate the worst choices and to narrow your choices down to a specific finalist at each of the local or online retailers or manufacturers you are considering.

Once you are down to finalists that are all choices between "good and good" and you are confident that they would all be a suitable choice in terms of PPP and none of them have any lower quality materials or weak links in their design and if there are no clear winners between them then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your local testing or mattresses you have slept well on, your more detailed conversations with each of them, your confidence about the suitability of each one, their prices, the options you have after a purchase to change the firmness or exchange or return the mattress, any additional extras that are part of each purchase, and on "informed best judgement" based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by AdminTMU. Reason: Updated link

Feedback Requested: Jamestown Mattress, polyfoam, & thoughts towards online purchase 17 Jun 2015 08:06 #3

  • diversification
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Thanks for the prompt response, Phoenix! Here's an update.

A foam encasement is used around a support core (either an innerspring or in this case latex) to create a firmer edge and is the same thickness as the support core itself so it isn't a separate layer in the mattress. The missing 2" would include the thickness of the fire barrier, the cover fabric, and any other layers that are missing from the description. I would also want to know what they are as well.


Below is an email I sent Jim Jr. and his subsequent response, regarding the extra 2” of material that are unaccounted for. I'm confused because it seemingly contradicts what you've said.

ME:
With the layers listed, I'm having trouble arriving at the advertised mattress heights for the Heavenly Cloud beds. Here's what I've got: 2" polyurethane foam quilted pannel + 2" comfort latex layer + 6" support latex layer = 10" total. On the website both mattresses are listed as having a height of 12". The only other layer listed is the high density polyurethane encasement; is that where the extra 2" are coming from, or is there something I'm missing?

JIM JR:
You were right in assuming that it comes from the encasement. The encasement starts with a 2” piece of 1.8 lb. 60 – ILD piece of polyurethane foam. The rails are glued around the perimeter of this 2” piece of foam.

Any thoughts? Maybe he misunderstood the question?

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Feedback Requested: Jamestown Mattress, polyfoam, & thoughts towards online purchase 17 Jun 2015 08:48 #4

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Hi divrsification,

Any thoughts? Maybe he misunderstood the question?


He understood the question correctly and his reply explains the missing 2". The encasement is a foam "tub" that surrounds the innerspring or latex core on 5 sides so there would be an additional 2" layer of 1.8 lb polyfoam on the bottom of the mattress in additon to the 2" polyfoam on all 4 edges of the innerspring or the latex core (see @ 1 minute 40 seconds in the video here ).

The innerspring or latex core would be reduced by 4" in length and width so that with the addition of the 2" of polyfoam on each side it would end up being a standard size.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Feedback Requested: Jamestown Mattress, polyfoam, & thoughts towards online purchase 17 Jun 2015 10:39 #5

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You were right in assuming that it comes from the encasement. The encasement starts with a 2” piece of 1.8 lb. 60 – ILD piece of polyurethane foam. The rails are glued around the perimeter of this 2” piece of foam.

Any thoughts? Maybe he misunderstood the question?


He answered your question correctly. Manufacturers quite often leave out this base foam as most people don't consider it part of the "comfort layers," but it does contribute to the overall profile of the product.

It is good that they are gluing the tub into a solid unit - better for durability.
Jeff Scheuer, The Beducator™ Owner of Mattress To Go
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Feedback Requested: Jamestown Mattress, polyfoam, & thoughts towards online purchase 17 Jun 2015 14:46 #6

  • diversification
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Thanks guys, I think I've got my head around it a bit better now. If I'm following, that means that the Heavenly Cloud has 4" of 1.8 lb polyfoam (2" in the quilted pad and 2" in the encasement), and the Majestic Dream has 5" of 1.8 lb polyfoam (2" in the quilted pad, 1" in the comfort layer, and 2" in the encasement) and 1" of 1.5 lb polyfoam in the comfort layer.

To me, each of those beds seems to have a overabundance of polyfoam, but let me present my reasoning for critiquing. I realize that it's only 2" and 3" (respectively) in the comfort layers, but I believe 1" was a guideline and 2" was a max. I also seem to recall 1.5 lb polyfoam being a minimum with 2" being a better guideline. What I'm getting at is that these offerings seem like they're priced steeply for products that seem to just hit minimums and not exceed guidelines.

Hypothetically, couldn't I achieve a similar feel byway of an online manufacturer offering a mattress with latex replacing some of that foam? And if that is possible, isn't it also true that I'd stand to save a significant amount of money, while walking away with a mattress with more longevity (or at least a higher probability of having more longevity?)

I appreciate all the help, so thanks again.

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Feedback Requested: Jamestown Mattress, polyfoam, & thoughts towards online purchase 17 Jun 2015 17:11 #7

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Hi diversification,

To me, each of those beds seems to have a overabundance of polyfoam, but let me present my reasoning for critiquing. I realize that it's only 2" and 3" (respectively) in the comfort layers, but I believe 1" was a guideline and 2" was a max. I also seem to recall 1.5 lb polyfoam being a minimum with 2" being a better guideline. What I'm getting at is that these offerings seem like they're priced steeply for products that seem to just hit minimums and not exceed guidelines.


The amount or total thickness of polyfoam in a mattress isn't a meaningful issue (unless for some reason someone wants to avoid polyfoam completely) ... the more important issue is the quality/density of the polyfoam and how much of any lower quality/density polyfoam is in the upper layers of the mattress. The single biggest factor in the durability and useful life of a polyfoam material is the density of the polyfoam but the firmness of the polyfoam and the position of the polyfoam in the mattress (close to the top layers vs deeper in the mattress) will also play a role in durability as well. There is more detailed information about the many variables that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress in post #4 here and the other posts it links to.

Hypothetically, couldn't I achieve a similar feel byway of an online manufacturer offering a mattress with latex replacing some of that foam? And if that is possible, isn't it also true that I'd stand to save a significant amount of money, while walking away with a mattress with more longevity (or at least a higher probability of having more longevity?)


There is more about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or approximate another one in post #9 here . While you may be able to "match" two mattresses in terms of their expected durability by looking at the quality and durability of the materials in a mattress ... you can't "match" the feel and performance or the suitability of two mattresses in terms of PPP by comparing foam or design specs unless you have two mattresses where the type, thickness, and firmness of all the layers are virtually identical which would be very unlikely.

Two of the most important links in the tutorial that I would especially make sure you've read are post #2 here which has more about the different ways to choose a suitable mattress (either locally or online) that is the best "match" for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) that can help you assess and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for (or that doesn't feel as close to another mattress as you hoped it would) that are involved in each of them and post #13 here which has more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase which can help you make more meaningful quality/value comparisons between mattresses in terms of suitability, durability, and value.

When you are considering an online mattress that you can't test or compare to another mattress in person then the most reliable source of guidance is always a more detailed phone conversation with a knowledgeable and experienced retailer or manufacturer that has your best interests at heart and who can help "talk you through" the specifics of their mattresses and the options they have available that may be the best "match" for you based on the information you provide them, any local testing you have done or mattresses you have slept on and liked that they are familiar with, and the "averages" of other customers that are similar to you. They will know more about "matching" their specific mattress designs to different body types, sleeping positions, and preferences or to other mattresses that they are familiar with than anyone else. If you are purchasing an online mattress then the options you have after a purchase to return or exchange the mattress if it doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for (or doesn't match another mattress you were using as your target as closely as you hoped for) would also become a much more important part of the "value" of your purchase.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.
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