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Help me make the final cut? 01 Mar 2015 20:57 #1

  • ashark8me
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Okay so after deciding to get a new mattress and wading through tons of information on the subject, we slowly peeled away options until we are now pretty much left with two. First, a little about us.

We are in our mid 30's. We are both over 220 lbs. I feel quite certain my husband could sleep on just about anything. I have been getting increasingly uncomfortable on our inner spring mattress and my back has been hurting. I don't sleep well on the bed currently, and I believe loss of support in our 13 year old inner spring from sam's club has been a factor in that.

We have decided on latex for our new mattress, which has lead us to have some serious problems with trying to figure out what we like. I liked the idea of latex but finding one to look at in real life has been a pain. There are none to be found in our town. I was getting ready to buy the dreamfoam ultimate dreams natural sight unseen based on some information I gathered about it and by comparing it to other things in our price range, but today I managed to find a latex mattress to try out in the next town over.

Thankfully, I found that I do like the feel of latex better than memory foam. That's the good news.

The bad news is that it has kind of confused the issue further for me.

The UD Natural is 3 inches of dunlop on top of 5.5 inches of 2 lb HD foam with a quilted cover.

The bed I looked at today was (and I apologize for the lack of real technical info here, I totally failed at getting that) about 9 inches of talalay latex comprised of 3 inch layers glued together (I assume they were glued). The top being quite soft, the middle being firmer, and the bottom being the firmest, followed by another 2-3 inch layer of some kind of other foam. I don't know if it was poly or HD, it seemed about the same firmness as the firmest latex but unfortunately right now I don't have the specs on that. I realize without knowing exactly what that foam is and the specs on everything, it's difficult to compare. They had a cutaway model of the mattress and I did see that the bottom latex layer has an ILD listed as 36 then it says density 4.4. That is the firmest layer of the latex. This bed also had a quilted cover. They had 2 identical ones there with different covers, and I much preferred the quilted one. I thought it was strange that just that would make a real difference, but it did.

Both are certified by either centri pure or oeko.

So here is where I am at on this.

My thoughts on the UD Natural:
Dunlop. I still don't know what that feels like. I read that it's maybe better for "persons of size" than talalay which is unfortunately something we need to consider. Maybe someday we'll be smaller people but for right now it's a consideration. I'm a little nervous that I won't like Dunlop as much as talalay given that just the different covers made a difference to me. I just have not been able to lay on one and I"m not going to be able to. I am stumped here. I apparently like a bit of cushion over a good support given my preference for the more fluffy cover the bed I liked in real life.

I'm also concerned that I won't like having just 3 inches of latex over foam. The other bed had more like 9 inches of latex over foam. I am a little worried that I will wish I'd gotten more latex.

the UD Natural has a cover I think I would like, it's quilted and made of natural fibers that I believe will breathe nicely, so I think I will like the cover. It's the uncertainty of the feel of dunlop and the smaller layer of latex that I am concerned about.

This bed is $150 less than the one in the store.


The bed in the store
It has no name, they are a store that makes their own beds. Here is their website if you're interested www.thesleepshopappleton.com/

I did not expect to like the talalay, and I did. I liked the feel of this bed and have no idea how a thinner layer of dunlop will compare. Who knows, maybe I would like it better??
It seemed to be "just right" in terms of firmness, and I spent a lot of time laying on it today. I'm a little afraid it will soften up too much over time.
I don't know what kind of foam is at the bottom there. It was only about 2-3 inches. This bed is almost a straight latex bed. I'm not sure what the advantages are to that, if there are any.
I do not know what kind of return policy they have or warranty. These are questions I can ask tomorrow.
This bed is $150 more than the dreamfoam one, but with the extra latex in it, I believe it's probably worth the extra and part of that is sales tax I would not be paying for dreamfoam. The actual price difference without considering sales tax is only about $100.

I think what keeps the natural in my mind is the thought that perhaps dunlop might be the better choice for us as heavier people. On the other hand, I have this other one that I checked out and did like - but with us being larger folks, might it soften up a little too much and get too soft?

Without being able to try a dunlop bed and especially one with such a difference latex/foam ratio, it's a really tough call. I feel like there are pros and cons to both. We are both leaning toward opposite choices but hubby says it's up to me. I feel a lot of pressure to get it right!

To me it's a bit of a head scratcher. I know no one can tell me which to get but I was hoping someone could suggest some other angle to think about or point out something I haven't thought of. I realize I've made it harder but not having details like warranty or return info on the store bed but I personally be pretty hard pressed to return a bed once I'd used it.

Any advice is appreciated. I'd like the pull the trigger as soon as possible because I've already spent a couple of weeks working on this and I'm ready for it to be over and just relax in my new bed!

Thanks!

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Help me make the final cut? 01 Mar 2015 22:04 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi ashark8me,

There are none to be found in our town


If you let me know your city or zip code I'd be happy to let you know about any options or possibilities I'm aware of in your area.

While there are too many unknowns, variables, and personal preferences involved for anyone to be able to tell you "what" to choose ... I may be able to provide some information that can help you with "how" to choose.

The UD Natural is 3 inches of dunlop on top of 5.5 inches of 2 lb HD foam with a quilted cover.

The bed I looked at today was (and I apologize for the lack of real technical info here, I totally failed at getting that) about 9 inches of talalay latex comprised of 3 inch layers glued together (I assume they were glued). The top being quite soft, the middle being firmer, and the bottom being the firmest, followed by another 2-3 inch layer of some kind of other foam. I don't know if it was poly or HD, it seemed about the same firmness as the firmest latex but unfortunately right now I don't have the specs on that. I realize without knowing exactly what that foam is and the specs on everything, it's difficult to compare. They had a cutaway model of the mattress and I did see that the bottom latex layer has an ILD listed as 36 then it says density 4.4. That is the firmest layer of the latex. This bed also had a quilted cover. They had 2 identical ones there with different covers, and I much preferred the quilted one. I thought it was strange that just that would make a real difference, but it did.


It can be very surprising to many people how much difference different covers can make in the feel and performance of a mattress.

With the "mostly latex" mattress you are looking at I would want to know the type and thickness of any quilting materials that are used in the cover because this can be a weak link in a mattress and I would also want to know the blend of the Talalay (although it's likely to be blended if they don't specify) and I would also want to know the type and density of the bottom 2-3" layer.

Having said that ... if the quilting layers aren't 2" or thicker then they wouldn't likely be a weak link in the mattress and the bottom layers are most likely in the 1.5 lb range or higher (and preferably 1.8 lb) and are just a "stabilization" layer (see post #2 here ) and with that much latex on top of them they aren't likely to be a weak link in the mattress either.

The Ultimate Dreams has a quilting layer that is about 1.5" of polyfoam and the base layer is 2 lb polyfoam so there wouldn't be any weak links in this mattress either in terms of durability. As you know you also have the options to choose the firmness of your comfort layer.

There is more about an "all latex" mattress (or in this case a "mostly latex" mattress) vs a latex/polyfoam hybrid in post #2 here .

There is also more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses in post #13 here .

My thoughts on the UD Natural:
Dunlop. I still don't know what that feels like. I read that it's maybe better for "persons of size" than talalay which is unfortunately something we need to consider. Maybe someday we'll be smaller people but for right now it's a consideration. I'm a little nervous that I won't like Dunlop as much as talalay given that just the different covers made a difference to me. I just have not been able to lay on one and I"m not going to be able to. I am stumped here. I apparently like a bit of cushion over a good support given my preference for the more fluffy cover the bed I liked in real life.


The choice between Dunlop and Talalay would be a preference choice not a "better/worse" choice regardless of whether they are used in comfort or support layers. Both come in a wide range of firmness levels and are very durable materials with the right design and firmness levels eithr one can make a good choice for any weight range for those that prefer the feel and performance of either one.

There is more about Dunlop vs Talalay in post #7 here but the only reliable way to know which one you prefer will be based on your own personal testing or sleeping experience. When you can't test a mattress in person then the return or exchange options may become a more important part of your personal value equation just in case the choice you make doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for. If you do decide to choose the UD Natural then I would purchase it from the Dreamfoam site because they have a 10% discount vs Amazon and that would also give you the benefit of their 45 day comfort guarantee as well.

There is also more about the different ways to choose a mattress (either locally or online) that is the most suitable "match" for your specific needs and preferences and how to identify and minimize the risks of making a choice that doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for that are involved in each of them in post #2 here .

There is also more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses.

When you are down to finalists that are all choices between "good and good" and if there are no clear winners between them then you are in the fortunate position that any of them would likely be a suitable choice and post #2 here can help you make a final choice based on your local testing, your conversations with each of them, your confidence about the suitability of each one, the prices, the options you have after a purchase, and on "informed best judgement" based on all the other objective, subjective, and intangible parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you.

Phoenix
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Help me make the final cut? 02 Mar 2015 06:55 #3

  • ashark8me
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I wrote a response but it got eaten or something....the gist of it being

#1 Thank you for your response, it has given me some more things to think about

#2 My area code is 54302. I am going to attempt to find more latex offerings in my area but I'm not super optimistic.

#3 Thanks, again!

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Help me make the final cut? 02 Mar 2015 12:21 #4

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Hi ashark8me,

I wrote a response but it got eaten or something


I feel your pain and I can't count the number of times that this has happened to me over the years on many different forums. The problem is that the ones that "disappear" are always the best ones that took the longest to write. It's usually the result of some kind of temporary disconnect from the internet or taking a break while you are writing a post leading to a session timeout which logs you out of the forum (this is common to forum software after a certain period of inactivity) and then when you go to post ... poof. I've learned over the years to highlight and copy the post before clicking submit just in case but it always seems that the few times I forget is exactly when murphys law kicks in and another long post disappears into the ether. :dry:

#2 My area code is 54302.


The better options or possibilities I'm aware of in the Green Bay area (subject to the "value" guidelines I linked in my previous reply) are listed in post #2 here . There are some latex options in the area although I don't think that any of them carry Dunlop latex on their floor (only Talalay) but you may need to call them to find out for certain.

Phoenix
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Help me make the final cut? 02 Mar 2015 15:30 #5

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I suspect the culprit was probably a time out issue as I may have taken a while to compose my response.

And now I'm a little embarrassed. I didn't even check to see if you'd already made recommendations to someone else in my area because being from a somewhat small town, it's pretty rare for anything like that have been addressed. So...sorry for not using the search function first!

The first one on the list was I believe, the sleep shop. That's where I found the latex offerings I had the chance to try. I'm glad to know you've talked to them and you view them as a good source. I also liked them. Their showroom is not fancy, but they do appear to know their stuff and the prices seemed good. My oldest son needs a bed and I may look to them for his new one.

The other store on your list that has a latex offering was verlo and they didn't have one on the showroom floor.

I talked to Chuck at Dreamfoam today and I am probably going to go with the UD Freedom out of their offerings. So it's basically an all dunlop bed from Dreamfoam or an almost all Talalay bed from the local factory store.

I asked Chuck why they make the Freedom out of all Dunlop and not all Talalay (like the local bed I found) or a mixture. Just curious what the advantage would be since basically that's what I'm looking at. A bed that is made of all Dunlop vs a bed that is all Talalay. Do you think either of those is more resistant to body impressions or sagging or loss of support?

Thanks!

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Help me make the final cut? 02 Mar 2015 17:17 #6

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Hi ashark8me,

I talked to Chuck at Dreamfoam today and I am probably going to go with the UD Freedom out of their offerings. So it's basically an all dunlop bed from Dreamfoam or an almost all Talalay bed from the local factory store.

I asked Chuck why they make the Freedom out of all Dunlop and not all Talalay (like the local bed I found) or a mixture. Just curious what the advantage would be since basically that's what I'm looking at. A bed that is made of all Dunlop vs a bed that is all Talalay. Do you think either of those is more resistant to body impressions or sagging or loss of support?


The Freedom mattress uses synthetic continuous pour Dunlop made by Mountaintop Foam which is a lower cost version of latex which is the reason for the lower price. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here and more about the Freedom mattress and synthetic continuous pour Dunlop in post #2 here and in posts #3 and #4 here .

They already have many Talalay latex mattresses and latex hybrids so choosing the synthetic continuous pour latex is a way to provide an additional customizable option for an "all latex" mattress for their customers at a lower cost.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.
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