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Hate my Tempur Rhapsody, replacing with Aireloom or Prana 16 Feb 2015 13:49 #11

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OK, I'm going today & tomorrow to try out the Savvy and Pure Latex Bliss at Mattress Xperts in Boynton Beach. As it turns out, there is a new City Mattress right down the street from there, so comparing it to the Prana or Aireloom would be easy to do. Just wish it wasn't a 30min drive north of me.

But a bit of good news (I guess) is the DM at Mattress Firm has agreed to take the Rhapsody and the Premier Ergo base back for a full $6000 refund (just a $149 fee). Even though the adjustable base was $2100 (Cal King) which is a good discount over retail, I can't see spending $2100 just for that, when it's something I would probably only use on rare occasion...and haven't been able to use as it kills by back and stomach where I had surgery last year.

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Hate my Tempur Rhapsody, replacing with Aireloom or Prana 16 Feb 2015 14:31 #12

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Hi FAUguy,

But a bit of good news (I guess) is the DM at Mattress Firm has agreed to take the Rhapsody and the Premier Ergo base back for a full $6000 refund (just a $149 fee). Even though the adjustable base was $2100 (Cal King) which is a good discount over retail, I can't see spending $2100 just for that, when it's something I would probably only use on rare occasion...and haven't been able to use as it kills by back and stomach where I had surgery last year.


That's great news ... and it's good to hear that sometimes persistance pays and that they do make exceptions on occasion :)

Phoenix
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Hate my Tempur Rhapsody, replacing with Aireloom or Prana 16 Feb 2015 22:01 #13

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I made it to Mattress Xperts in Boynton Beach and first tried out the Latex Bliss Beautiful model. After a few minutes, I could tell that I didn't care for it. A bit too "firm" for me and was a bit "lumpy" when I laid in the middle of the bed.
I then tried the Savvy and liked how it felt. It was much softer, but still supportive. He said this one had a 3" soft Dunlop latex on the bottom and two 3" soft Talalay for the center and top layer. He said that having a medium or firm on the bottom would probably be to firm for me, since I didn't like the Beautiful.
The pricing for the Savvy was $4300 retail, but said he could do better whenever we're ready to buy.

I then went right down the street, and the new City Mattress was open (turns out it opened today).
I looked again at the Prana, and they have the new Series 5 on display, which I didn't know there was a new Series 5 coming out when I looked at the Series 4 last week at their Boca location. I think the pricing on the Series 5 was slightly more, but they didn't have a breakdown as to what differences (if any) there are between the 4 and 5. But I can call Prana and probably find out.
Anyway, I tried the (series 5) Super Vinyasa and Samadhi, and did like the Samadhi the most between those two. Though I'm not sure (yet) if I would like the Samadhi or the Savvy more...though the Savvy is much lower price it didn't feel as "well made" as the Pranas...or maybe that is just because the Savvy looks basic with the plain quilted top.
I also got on the Aireloom Silverton since it was brand new, and it was much firmer than the one I tried at the Boca store since this one was brand new and never laid on. It also lacked the "ridge" in the middle I could feel on the broke in Silverton last week. So this tells me that the Silverton does break in due to the stuff that's used on the top layers.

So at this point, I'm going to find out what different in there is if any between the Prana series 4 and 5 and what pricing I can get for the Samadhi, since last week I was quoted $4700 for the Super Vinyasa Cal King with standard base (but that was probably for the Series 4). I'll probably want to also try out them again, and the Savvy before making a decision.
But I'm a bit surprised the Savvy on display was Soft Dunlop on the bottom with Soft Talalay in the center and top, as most people say to get medium or firm as the bottom layer. I guess a similar product would be the Sleep EZ 13000, not sure how I would configure those 4 layers medium or soft.

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Hate my Tempur Rhapsody, replacing with Aireloom or Prana 16 Feb 2015 23:15 #14

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Hi FAUguy,

So at this point, I'm going to find out what different in there is if any between the Prana series 4 and 5


I'd be interested in this as well ... and particularly in any differences in the polyfoam quilting layers that they use on top of the latex.

I guess a similar product would be the Sleep EZ 13000, not sure how I would configure those 4 layers medium or soft.


If the Savvy Rest you tested had 3 layers then the closest SleepEZ would be the 10000 which also has 3 layers. They also provide the option to "mix and match" your layers and you can choose 100% natural Dunlop or blended or 100% natural Talalay in similar firmness levels as the Savvy Rest although a mattress that used 3 soft layers would be risky in terms of alignment and they would probably (and with good reason) advise against it.

Phoenix
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Hate my Tempur Rhapsody, replacing with Aireloom or Prana 16 Feb 2015 23:29 #15

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Since the Series 4 and 5 looked identical, except the label on the top of the mattress was a different style, and both had the same quilting on the top...the only difference could be the latex layers. They might say they are made better or something like that to change the product from a 4 to a 5 and increase the price. The Samadhi Series 5 felt pretty nice. I guess I'd have two drive between the two store back to back to try out the 4 and 5...but the series 4 is a better price, than would go that route. I sent an email to Prana asking the difference. But since the Super Vinyasa Series 4 was quoted at discounted $4700 to me, the Samadhi Series 4 would probably be $1000-1200 more is my guess, pushing around $6000...which is just too much.

But speaking of price, the Sleep EZ 10000 and 13000 Cal King are under $3000 which is very attractive pricing to me...though I'm leery about buying something without trying it first...especially something as personal taste as a mattress. I'm suprised the Savvy I tried was three layers of soft with Dunlop on the bottom and Talalay in the center and top. I asked the sales man about medium or firm on the bottom, and he said that if the Beautiful was to firm for me, then he wouldn't recommend a medium or firm bottom on the Savvy. But the first swap-out would be free.

I guess if I wanted to go the route of the Sleep EZ 13", then maybe a medium on the bottom and center with soft on the top two layers...or with the 10" would probably be medium on the bottom with soft on the center and top.

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Last edit: by FAUguy.

Hate my Tempur Rhapsody, replacing with Aireloom or Prana 17 Feb 2015 00:26 #16

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Hi FAUguy,

Since the Series 4 and 5 looked identical, except the label on the top of the mattress was a different style, and both had the same quilting on the top...the only difference could be the latex layers.


Hopefully they changed the quality/density of the polyfoam layers on top of the latex in the first 4 versions of their mattress. You can read more about the Pranasleep mattresses in post #3 here and in post #2 here and in post #3 here and in posts #1 and #2 here and a forum search on Prana (you can just click this) will also bring up more information and feedback about them as well. As you can see I would be very cautious here because of the thicker layers of lower quality/density materials they have tended to use in the top layers of their mattress which could be a weak link in the mattress.

I asked the sales man about medium or firm on the bottom, and he said that if the Beautiful was to firm for me, then he wouldn't recommend a medium or firm bottom on the Savvy. But the first swap-out would be free.


You can see the specs of the Beautiful in post #2 here but the materials in the top 6" or so of a mattress (which is 14 ILD and 24 ILD in the Beautiful which are softer than the two soft layers in the Savvy Rest) will have a bigger effect on how a mattress feels for most people than the deeper layers in the mattress.

There is more about primary or "deep" support and secondary or "surface" support and their relationship to firmness and pressure relief and the "roles" of different layers in a mattress in post #2 here and in post #4 here that may also be helpful in clarifying the difference between "support" and "pressure relief" and "feel".

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Hate my Tempur Rhapsody, replacing with Aireloom or Prana 17 Feb 2015 09:31 #17

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I got an email back from Prana. The only difference between the 4th and 5th generation is that they are now using a denser 2.5 IDL foam on the top instead of 1.5.
"The fifth generation has a 2.5 density foam instead of a 1.5 density foam in the quilting layer of the mattress. The higher density foam will give more resiliency and less body impression. The ILD of the foam is the same in each generation allowing the same comfort in both."

When I asked about the price increase, I was told
"The price increase would include the difference in pricing of latex and other materials over the past couple of years since the last price increase."

And when looking at the increase, it is about $1500-2000 depending on the model and size!
The Super Vinyasa 4th Gen Cal King with base had a MSRP of $5600, which I could get on sale for $4700. The Super Vinyasa 5th MSRP is $1500 more. The Samadhi 4th Gen was MSRP $6500 and the 5th gen is $8400, $1900 more.
Those are pretty big price increases.
But even the Jordan's site now lists the 5th Gen Super Vinyasa, and lists it with a 3" foam top at 2.5 lbs, 1" soft latex, 2" medium latex, 6" latex core, and 1" 1.45lbs foam bottom, which equals the 13" total. But out of it only 9" is latex, which is surprising at these prices. The Samadhi only adds one more inch of soft latex at the top for 14" total...which is probably why it felt the best to me between the Prana models.


www.jordans.com/pranasleep-super-vinyasa-luxury-plush-pran-60009

For the Beautiful model, your link says it is 3" 15 IDL, 3" 24 IDL, 6" 36IDL. Do you know what the different IDLs are for the latex used by Savvy and Sleep EZ? You say that is softer than the Savvy...but to me when I was on the Savvy that had all 3 layers of soft, it felt softer than the Beautiful.

One concern about the Sleep EZ is that you have to assemble it yourself. I has surgery a couple month back, and can't really so that, so my friend would have to. How involved is putting it together, since the foundation shows it has wooden slats?
Edit: After watching the assembly videos, I see the latex mattress is easy to put together, but the bottom wooden support seems that it might be a "weak link" as it is just held together with bolts and wing-nuts with velcro on the top wooden slats.

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Last edit: by FAUguy.

Hate my Tempur Rhapsody, replacing with Aireloom or Prana 17 Feb 2015 15:54 #18

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So I found out today I could get the 4th Gen Prana Samadhi for $5700, which is $1000 more than the Super Vinyasa. They are only going to be making the 4th Gen until they run out of the supplies aand then will on have the 5th Gen at the much higher prices.

I'm going to a different Mattress Xperts later this week to try out the Savvy again and hopefully get a better feel for it.
I like the pricing of the Sleep Ez more, even if it requires assembly. Do both the Savvy and Sleep EZ have comparable IDL with each other? I'm trying to see why the Savvy is about twice the price since it seems both are the same design.

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Hate my Tempur Rhapsody, replacing with Aireloom or Prana 17 Feb 2015 16:16 #19

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Hi FAUguy,

I got an email back from Prana. The only difference between the 4th and 5th generation is that they are now using a denser 2.5 IDL foam on the top instead of 1.5.
"The fifth generation has a 2.5 density foam instead of a 1.5 density foam in the quilting layer of the mattress. The higher density foam will give more resiliency and less body impression. The ILD of the foam is the same in each generation allowing the same comfort in both."


I'm glad to see that they finally removed the lower quality materials in their previous generations and replaced them with a higher quality/density and more durable version of polyfoam which would no longer be a potential "weak link" in their mattress in terms of durability and the useful life of their mattress.

When I asked about the price increase, I was told
"The price increase would include the difference in pricing of latex and other materials over the past couple of years since the last price increase."

And when looking at the increase, it is about $1500-2000 depending on the model and size!
The Super Vinyasa 4th Gen Cal King with base had a MSRP of $5600, which I could get on sale for $4700. The Super Vinyasa 5th MSRP is $1500 more. The Samadhi 4th Gen was MSRP $6500 and the 5th gen is $8400, $1900 more.
Those are pretty big price increases.
But even the Jordan's site now lists the 5th Gen Super Vinyasa, and lists it with a 3" foam top at 2.5 lbs, 1" soft latex, 2" medium latex, 6" latex core, and 1" 1.45lbs foam bottom, which equals the 13" total. But out of it only 9" is latex, which is surprising at these prices. The Samadhi only adds one more inch of soft latex at the top for 14" total...which is probably why it felt the best to me between the Prana models.


With the change in foam quality/density of their 5th generation then there would be no cause for concern with the durability or useful life of their mattresses and if you have done some careful testing to confirm that the mattress you are considering is a good match for you in terms of PPP then you would have covered two of the three most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase that are listed in post #13 here (suitability and durability).

Of course I would still make some very careful "value" comparisons between the Prana and other mattresses or the other "finalists" you are considering that use similar types, thicknesses, and quality of materials based on all the parts of your personal value equation that are most important to you including the price and the options you have available both before and after a purchase to customize the mattress or exchange the mattress or individual layers if the choice you make doesn't turn out as well as you hoped for. I would always be very cautious once you are above about $3000 (queen size mattress only) or the equivalent in a king size (about $3500 - $4000 mattress only) so that you have a compelling reason to buy a mattress in this price range that makes sense to you and that would make the additional cost vs the other options you have available "worth it" to you.

For the Beautiful model, your link says it is 3" 15 IDL, 3" 24 IDL, 6" 36IDL. Do you know what the different IDLs are for the latex used by Savvy and Sleep EZ? You say that is softer than the Savvy...but to me when I was on the Savvy that had all 3 layers of soft, it felt softer than the Beautiful.


Savvy Rest doesn't provide the ILD's for their layers but the general range is in post #2 here . The ILD range for SleepEZ is near the bottom of this page.

Softness/firmness is very subjective and relative to each person and a mattress that feels soft for one person may feel firm for another depending on how their body type, weight distribution, and sleeping style interacts with all the layers and components of a mattress and their own individual sensitivity. There are also different types of softness/firmness that some people may be more or less sensitive to (see post #15 here ). The comfort and transition layers in the PLB Beautiful would be softer overall than the Savvy Rest but for some people the softer bottom layer (in spite of the alignment risks involved) may "translate" into an "all soft" Savvy rest feeling softer to them even though it may not feel softer for other people.

One concern about the Sleep EZ is that you have to assemble it yourself. I has surgery a couple month back, and can't really so that, so my friend would have to. How involved is putting it together, since the foundation shows it has wooden slats?
Edit: After watching the assembly videos, I see the latex mattress is easy to put together, but the bottom wooden support seems that it might be a "weak link" as it is just held together with bolts and wing-nuts with velcro on the top wooden slats.


Assembling a component mattress such as SleepEZ or Savvy Rest is generally a fairly simple process but it would be much easier with two people. The foundation is easy for one person to put together and is made specifically for latex mattresses and would certainly be suitable and strong enough for an all latex mattress and it wouldn't be a "weak link" in your sleeping system.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Hate my Tempur Rhapsody, replacing with Aireloom or Prana 17 Feb 2015 21:09 #20

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I would like to keep the pricing as close to $4000 (or under) if possible.
The Prana Super Vinyasa at $4700 is a stretch, but the Samadhi at $5800 is really more than I am lookig to spend on a mattress. The new 5th Gens are just out of ballpark with their price increase.

But the more I think about it, even though I like how the Samadhi felt, I am concerned about the 1.5lbs on the top 3", and there is nno way to replace any layers on the mattress. At least with the Savvy or Sleep EZ it doesn't have foam on the top and the layers can be replaced.

I see from you link the latex layers are about equal between Savvy and Sleep EZ. For example, if I tried out a Savvy that is soft/soft/medium, then chances are a Sleep EZ with the same configuration would feel about the same.

What I am thinking is to try out the Savvy again later with week at the other store that can swap them out, find which configuration I like best, and order that configuration from Sleep EZ.
My question (or concern) is if there is any difference in quality or reliability between Savvy and Sleep EZ? As I'm trying to figure out why the price of the Sleep EZ is half (as the saying goes you get what you pay for, and even though the price is attractive, I'd hate to get it, not like it, return and go with Savvy or Prana...with all that hassle.)

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Last edit: by FAUguy.
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