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Help me pick a latex matress 03 Jan 2015 12:01 #1

  • Elderblaze
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Hello,

I've been looking for a new bed, and thanks to Phonix, I cancelled my order of a Leesa before it could ship! Good looking out man -

My wife and I are on the heavier side, im about 210 and she's about 260. I've considered Leesa, Casper, Tuft N Needle. Dismissed all of them for one reason or another, looking for something better then Tuft N Needle, and Leesa/Casper seem to be lacking value compared to the other options here. We are looking for a KING size bed, with a 10 Year lifespan or greater.

Im very interested in Brooklyn Bedding, I went to their website and Jacob talked to me for awhile on the instant chat, very helpful person.
Im also considering DreamFoam product line (also from BB). My budget started out at 900$ but I can stretch it to a max of 1500$. Here are the options i've been considering, and I'd really like others to chime in with any other options that i've missed. I see flobeds are quite popular here, but I don't see anything in their product line remotely close to my price range.

The Goals:
10+ Year life
King Size
Latex/Hybrid or all latex
Heavy Couple Compatible (210/260 LBS)
Side Sleepers
900-1500$ Budget

The Contenders:

Cotton Camia
Bamboo Bliss
Aloe Alexis
DreamFoam: Ultimate Dreams Natural
DreamFoam: Ultimate Dreams Freedom

What else am I missing? Other options please.

My thoughts on the above.

Cotton Camia : We are heavy, and 1.5LB core seems to eliminate this option for durability.

Bamboo Bliss: Very well made, 2.2 lb core, quality talalay latex, swap comfort easy. Good durability/Value

Aloe Alexis: Pushing the budget, but twice the comfort layers (6" latex!) sounds dreamy, all the qualieis of Bamboo bliss and then some.

Dreamfoam UD Natrual: Great price (810$), Strong core 2.2 LB (an oddity for the dreamfoam lineup), Dunlop latex, would rather have talalay. "only" 3" comfort layer. No comfort changing options.

Dreamfoam Freedom: Oddly priced, 100% latex bed for 1000$? Seems like a great value, questionable support for heavier couple? How does comfort compare to Aloe Alexis? all research says 100% latex is the best you can buy, but there are much more expensive hybrid options, like Aoe Alexis. This is a very confusing product.

Opinions? Advice?

We've been sleeping on a 10+ Year old Simmons, it's actually the best matress we've ever owned, I think it was probably a 1200$ retail matress, been pretty happy with it, but the "roll together" is getting worse, and support seems to be fading.

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Last edit: by Elderblaze.

Help me pick a latex matress 03 Jan 2015 13:55 #2

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Hi Elderblaze,

My wife and I are on the heavier side, im about 210 and she's about 260. I've considered Leesa, Casper, Tuft N Needle. Dismissed all of them for one reason or another, looking for something better then Tuft N Needle, and Leesa/Casper seem to be lacking value compared to the other options here. We are looking for a KING size bed, with a 10 Year lifespan or greater.


Post #3 here and the posts it links to has more information that may be helpful for those that in higher weight ranges.

What else am I missing? Other options please.


I think you have covered most of the most likely latex and latex hybrid options that are available through Brooklyn Bedding and Dreamfoam and you are certainly looking at some great choices. If you are looking for additional online options then the tutorial post includes this link to a list of the members here that sell mattresses online and many of them sell latex or latex hybrid mattresses that use different types or blends of latex with a wide range of designs, features, options, return or exchange policies, and prices. If you let me know your city or zip code I'd also be happy to let you know about any local options or possibilities I'm aware of as well.

My thoughts on the above.

Cotton Camia : We are heavy, and 1.5LB core seems to eliminate this option for durability.


I would agree with your thoughts about the Cotton Camilla and in your weight ranges I would probably lean towards a higher density support core.

Bamboo Bliss: Very well made, 2.2 lb core, quality talalay latex, swap comfort easy. Good durability/Value

Aloe Alexis: Pushing the budget, but twice the comfort layers (6" latex!) sounds dreamy, all the qualieis of Bamboo bliss and then some.


You can read a little more about the benefits of the two layers of latex in the Alexis in post #2 here .

Dreamfoam UD Natrual: Great price (810$), Strong core 2.2 LB (an oddity for the dreamfoam lineup), Dunlop latex, would rather have talalay. "only" 3" comfort layer. No comfort changing options.


The base layer in this mattress is 2.0 lb (not 2.2 lb) but it is a high quality material. As you mentioned this uses Dunlop latex in the comfort layers and there is more about the difference between the "feel" of Talalay and Dunlop in post #7 here . It also doesn't have the option to further customize the mattress after a purchase with exchanging or rearranging layers that are included in the other mattresses you are considering.

Dreamfoam Freedom: Oddly priced, 100% latex bed for 1000$? Seems like a great value, questionable support for heavier couple? How does comfort compare to Aloe Alexis? all research says 100% latex is the best you can buy, but there are much more expensive hybrid options, like Aoe Alexis. This is a very confusing product.


The Freedom mattresses uses synthetic continuous pour Dunlop made by Mountaintop Foam which is a lower cost version of latex which is the reason for the lower price. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here and more about the Freedom mattress and synthetic Dunlop in post #2 here . The Freedom mattress also has standardized layers that can be re-arranged to customize the pressure relief and firmness of the mattress but there are no layer exchanges so you will always have a soft layer somewhere in the mattress and with your higher weights you may find that you do better without a soft layer at all rather than just putting the softer layer deeper in the mattress.

Hopefully this will held you with making a final choice between some very good options that are available to you.

Phoenix
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Help me pick a latex matress 03 Jan 2015 14:12 #3

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Thanks Phoenix. I just took a trip to a local matress store and now im even more confused/undecided.

Im in San Antonio, Texas, 78233. There seems to be a distinct lack of quality mattress stores here, mostly furniture stores peddling cheap crap furniture. And big box furniture stores selling name brand only. We do have a company here that manufacturers in town and sells direct, but their products and website are questionable. www.cantwellmattress.com/

They don't sell a hybrid mattress, at least on their website, and their pure latex is very expensive.

The matress store i just got back from was a small mom and pop shop, and the owner was very knowledgeable. He did not have a single name brand mattress in the store, to his credit. And actually had a 100% 10" latex mattress in the show room. I tried it and I immediately loved it. So much better then memory foam, and close to a great innerspring, but better.

His prices were 2400$ for 12" pure talalay latex, 2000$ for 10", and 1800$ for 8", in a king size. I can do better online, but honestly those seem like fair prices for a small local shop. Of course i'd have to pay tax along with a higher price and he offered zero return policy, once you order it, it's yours.

He was very hard on the boxing process of foam mattress and said that compressing and rolling them damages them, and they never fully return to their proper shape. He also was very damning of hybrid Foam Core/ Latex mattress. He said pure latex is the only way to go, and that Foam core hybrids just don't compare at all to latex for comfort or durability. I think he was just saying that because he does not offer the product. He did sell plenty of memory foam products, and I know they are nothing more then 3-6" of memory foam on top of a polycore just like a latex hybrid..

I wonder how the Alexis will feel compared to that pure latex i tried.

He also did not seem to be very knowledgeable with the specifics of firmness and latex, he said if you want firm get an 8" if you want plush get a 10" and if you want super plush get a 12". His eye's kind of glazed over when I asked him about ILD's and density/firmness of the latex itself.

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Last edit: by Elderblaze.

Help me pick a latex matress 03 Jan 2015 15:10 #4

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I saw this in another thread, and man, for 100$ over my max budget, I think i could stretch. What are your thoughts on this product?

www.mattresses.net/king-all-natural-talalay-w-free-bamboo-cover-upgrade.html

I called Cantwell just to give them a shot, completely non-competitive. 2000$ for a 3" latex on polycore (qtex). 3300$ for 100% Natural latex 10".

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Last edit: by Elderblaze.

Help me pick a latex matress 03 Jan 2015 16:57 #5

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Hi Elderblaze,

Im in San Antonio, Texas, 78233.


You may have seen this already but just in case you haven't ... the better options or possibilities I'm aware of in the San Antonio area (subject to the guidelines here ) are listed in post #2 here .

He was very hard on the boxing process of foam mattress and said that compressing and rolling them damages them, and they never fully return to their proper shape. He also was very damning of hybrid Foam Core/ Latex mattress. He said pure latex is the only way to go, and that Foam core hybrids just don't compare at all to latex for comfort or durability. I think he was just saying that because he does not offer the product. He did sell plenty of memory foam products, and I know they are nothing more then 3-6" of memory foam on top of a polycore just like a latex hybrid..


You can see my comments about latex/polyfoam hybrids vs all latex mattresses in post #2 here .

Short term compression during shipping or short periods of storage doesn't harm higher quality foam materials (or some types of innersprings) that can be easily compressed.

I wonder how the Alexis will feel compared to that pure latex i tried.


There is more about the different ways that one mattress can "match" or "approximate" another one in post #9 here but since "feel" is so subjective and relative to each person and their body type, sleeping style, and individual preferences and sensitivities it can be very difficult if not impossible to predict how any mattress will compare to another one for any specific person once there are more than very minor differences between them in their design.

I saw this in another thread, and man, for 100$ over my max budget, I think i could stretch. What are your thoughts on this product?

www.mattresses.net/king-all-natural-tala...o-cover-upgrade.html


As you probably know ... Arizona Premium Mattress is a member of this site which means that I think very highly of them and they compete well with the best in the industry in terms of their quality, value, service, and transparency.

While I can't speak to whether any mattress will be a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) and you will need to talk with them to discuss your comfort choices (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ) ... I can definitely confirm that the mattress you linked uses high quality and durable materials and components and there are no weak links in the design in terms of durability. If it's a good match for you in terms of PPP and the other parts of your personal value equation that are important to you then it would certainly be well worth considering and would make a good quality/value choice.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help me pick a latex matress 03 Jan 2015 17:19 #6

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I think their (Arizona) innerspring hybrid looks pretty great too. Very good price. How does the legget and plat pocket coil system compare to top quality innersprings?

I did find an even better deal on arizona's website, they offer the same 100% latex mattress in a blended latex instead of natural for 200$ less. I did notice all of their offerings are 8" latex mattress, and even Brooklyn's "total 10" is only 9" of latex.

Arizona has the 6" Core and 3" topper (+100$ upcharge) for 1495$ + 152$ shipping. That put them about 150$ cheaper then the Total Latex from Brooklyn Bedding for what appears to be, the same mattress.

Would the Arizona innerspring + 3" latex hybrid be suitable for heavier people? Do innerspring's contribute "More" to the comfort then a polyfoam or latex core?

What i mean is, 3" of latex on an innerspring vs 3" of latex on a polyfoam core, should be a pretty different experience?

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Last edit: by Elderblaze.

Help me pick a latex matress 03 Jan 2015 18:59 #7

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Hi Elderblaze,

I think their (Arizona) innerspring hybrid looks pretty great too. Very good price. How does the legget and plat pocket coil system compare to top quality innersprings?


The quantum edge coil they use is certainly a high quality pocket coil (see post #16 here ). How it compares to other types of innersprings would depend on the specific innerspring you are comparing it to but the innerspring generally isn't the weakest link in a mattress regardless of which type of innerspring is being used. There is more information about the different types of innersprings in this article and in post #10 here and there is more information about innerspring/latex hybrids in post #13 here .

I did find an even better deal on arizona's website, they offer the same 100% latex mattress in a blended latex instead of natural for 200$ less. I did notice all of their offerings are 8" latex mattress, and even Brooklyn's "total 10" is only 9" of latex.


This is a very similar mattress to the first one you linked except it uses blended Talalay instead of 100% natural Talalay. There is more about the different types and blends of latex in post #6 here .

Would the Arizona innerspring + 3" latex hybrid be suitable for heavier people? Do innerspring's contribute "More" to the comfort then a polyfoam or latex core?


That would depend on whether you are talking about suitability in terms of PPP or about durability. A good quality innerspring with a latex comfort layer wouldn't have any weak links in terms of durability for higher weights but only your own testing or personal experience can decide whether any mattress is a good match for you in terms of PPP (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ). Comfort is very subjective so the choice between different materials or types of support cores would be a preference and budget choice rather than a better/worse choice (assuming they are both good quality materials). The link in my previous reply had more information about latex/polyfoam hybrids vs all latex mattresses and post #28 here has more information about latex support cores vs an innerspring support core.

What i mean is, 3" of latex on an innerspring vs 3" of latex on a polyfoam core, should be a pretty different experience?


For most people they would feel and perform quite differently yes.

There is also more about the most important parts of the "value" of a mattress purchase in post #13 here that can help you make more meaningful comparisons between mattresses.

Phoenix
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Help me pick a latex matress 03 Jan 2015 19:39 #8

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Thanks for the feedback! I am really looking at Arizona's product line now, they seem to offer more value then Brooklyn Bedding. I have a really hard time telling their products apart, other then price.

The Eco Sleep for example, compares very well to the Bambo Bliss. 3" talalay on a high quality foam core, with a wool zippered case for easy comfort layer swaps. The eco sleep is around 100$ cheaper though, when shipping is included, and 10% price reduction on Bambo Bliss is accounted for.. makes it 1060$ vs 1170$. These lower prices are reflected in the entire product line.

The Adjustable Ultra plush king size, with 3" topper (9" total latex) comes in at 1650$. this almost completely nullifies the entire Aloe Alexis product. There's no need for a compromise when you can get pure latex for almost the same price. And if your willing to go with the 2" topper for an 8" latex mattress then the price is the same. I don't really see the value in "Natural" latex, im perfectly fine with 60/40 synthetic, and in fact, it appears to be a superior material.

You are very neutral recommending any specific companies. Im not shilling for Arizona here, im just trying to save someone else some time in the future if they search. I may be riding the line here with the rules im not sure. Feel free to edit the post if need be.

I wonder if Arizona honor's the 5% member discount? even more savings

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Last edit: by Elderblaze.

Help me pick a latex matress 03 Jan 2015 22:39 #9

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Hi Eldeerblaze,

You are certainly looking at some good options but there are also many parts to the "value" of a mattress purchase besides just the price or the "raw material" value of a mattress that may be significant parts of each person's personal value equation and the "value" of a mattress purchase is always relative to the many criteria that are most important to each person.

Having said that ... Arizona Premium would certainly represent great value for most people and they are among the "value leaders" in the industry.

You are very neutral recommending any specific companies. Im not shilling for Arizona here, im just trying to save someone else some time in the future if they search. I may be riding the line here with the rules im not sure. Feel free to edit the post if need be.


There is certainly nothing in your post which is against the rules of the forum and different comments and opinions are always welcome. I'm "neutral" because I know that only each person can decide for themselves which mattress is the best "value" for them based on their own individual criteria regardless of which mattress may be the best value for someone else so my focus is always on helping each member with "how" to choose or decide on the criteria that are most important to them rather than using criteria that may apply to some people but not to others.

I wonder if Arizona honor's the 5% member discount? even more savings


Yes they will as long as you let them know you are a member here or use the discount code with an online order ( see here )

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help me pick a latex matress 04 Jan 2015 09:45 #10

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I think i've narrowed my search down to either the Ultra Plush Adjustable, with 1" upgrade. Bringing the product to 9" Of latex for 1495$ or the Ultimate Hybrid 3" Latex over Pocket coils @ 1295$

I've slept on coils my whole life so im already used to the way they feel. I was impressed with the Pocket Coil technolgy, specifically that legget and plat system they use, i'd not been considering coils again, but after seeing that bed, it does look very intriguing, simple, well made parts. There do seem to be some people who have tried both and prefer the pocket coil system.

I do not feel that 3" of latex over a polyfoam core would be enough comfort layer for our heavier weights. But an innerspring differs from a polycore in the fact that it offers comfort and support by itself as opposed to only support. I beleive a firm latex core would probably be similar in the fact that it also adds to comfort and support.

I guess what im "hung up on" is 3" of latex is not good enough on Poly foam, but it is good enough on an innerspring. Does that sound right? If you "bottom out" the comfort layer on a 3" on polycore configuration your laying on stiff hard foam. This is not true with an innerspring setup.

It's been stated that the "core" system of most mattress is not the weak link. Now i've always used coil mattress and I remember hearing the coils stretch and pop, and squeak. I suspect these were very old low quality mattress tho, as my current Simmons beauty rest is 10+ years old and I don't ever hear it's coils doing there thing.

Are there any "S" brands I could find in a store that use a high quality pocket coil system with latex? I've got a hunch that the Ultimate Hybrid Arizona sells is probably about as good as an innerspring can get, but it would be nice to try something similiar.

How far up the line is the Combi-Zone with Quantum Edge support pocket coil system, is that L&P's top line coil?

What firmness of the 3" layer would you recommend for a heavier couple? I think my current mattress is definitely on the firm/medium side. I do wake up stiff with pain tho. They offer 19, 28, and 32 firmness. I was leaning towards 28, as I feel 19 is way to soft, i've seen forum post were people have got 19/16 and regret it. I've heard for heavier people more firm is better. 32 might even be good esp when the foam softens

Why is latex on coils a new thing? is there a reason this has not been done before? both tech have been around for 50+ years.

Is this product good? how does it effect breathability and does it sleep cool? does it make any plastic crunchy noise?
www.mattresses.net/eastern-king--premium--protect-a-bed-mattress-cover.html

Have you seen the section of Arizona's website poking fun at DreamFoam bedding? They say they tried that and it does not work (specifically the 1.5LB core), they say dreamfoam will be inundated with warranty claims and they are giving latex a bad name. They say that dreamfoam "stole" their mattress cover design in an attempt to confuse people. someone there is definitely butt hurt about dreamfoam.

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Last edit: by Elderblaze.
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