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HELP - Anything availabe that is slightly firmer than the Morgongava? 06 Dec 2014 20:11 #1

  • Cfrivera
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I recently purchased a 10” Lucid mattress (Amazon) with a 3” latex topper glued to a 7” HD poly foam base, and unfortunately it feels like a brick – I am 5’8”, 250 lbs., back and side sleeper. I cannot even sleep on my side on this mattress as it is just too hard. I also wake up with some lower back pain which I believe may be due to bottoming out and hitting the hard poly foam underneath. Fortunately, Amazon is happy to issue a return shipping label - I just need to figure out how to box it up for return shipping given the mattress is decompressed…(any suggestions would be appreciated).

In my search for a replacement mattress, I tried the Morgongava at Ikea on a slatted base (same setup I have at home) and WOW – I really liked it! Even though initially it felt just a bit too soft (particularly when I sat on it) on my back it felt surprisingly supportive and very comfy for side sleeping. I still think a slightly firmer mattress would work better for me.

So, after trying the Morgongava, I’ve decided I am definitely going to go with an all latex 6” core, preferably zoned (like the Morgongava, even though I am not sure I really need a “zoned” core), and a cotton/wool quilted mattress cover. If needed, I could incorporate an all-natural 2” topper from sleeponlatex.com in 20 ILD which I was using prior to the Amazon purchase.

Which of the options below would more closely approximate a slightly firmer “Morgongava” core?

1) Ebay - 100% Natural 5-zone Dunlop latex 6” core in Medium (25-27-30-27-25 ILD) or Medium-firm (28-30-33-30-28 ILD)
ebay.com/itm/6-5-Zone-Dunlop-Latex-100-NATURAL-Dunlop-Latex-Mattress-Component-Choose-Size-/251497238003?pt=Mattresses&var=&hash=item8026f43406

2) Ebay - 6" Dunlop Latex Mattress Foam zoned Latex Mattress (I believe this is a Durolox 20% NR - 80% SBR blend from Latexco), in either the “cushion firm” (26-30 ILD), firm (31-35 ILD) or extra firm (36-40 ILD).
ebay.com/itm/6-Dunlop-Latex-Mattress-Foam-ZONED-Latex-Mattress-Natural-Latex-ALL-SIZES-/261198801332?pt=Mattresses&var=&hash=item826e0fafe7

ADMIN NOTE: Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint 1: ebay.com/itm/6-5-Zone-Dunlop-Latex-100-NATURAL-Dunlop-Latex-Mattress-Component-Choose-Size-/251497238003?pt=Mattresses&var=&hash=item8026f43406 | Archived Footprint 2: ebay.com/itm/6-Dunlop-Latex-Mattress-Foam-ZONED-Latex-Mattress-Natural-Latex-ALL-SIZES-/261198801332?pt=Mattresses&var=&hash=item826e0fafe7

3) Sleeponlatex.com – 6” all natural core Dunlop, non-zoned, in either 24 or 34 ILD.

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HELP - Anything availabe that is slightly firmer than the Morgongava? 07 Dec 2014 00:16 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi Cfrivera,

I just need to figure out how to box it up for return shipping given the mattress is decompressed…(any suggestions would be appreciated).


If your mattress was fulfilled by Amazon then I would talk to the large items return department if you need to return a mattress (see post #11 here ). Many of their customer service people may not be aware that this is who you need to talk with if you are returning a mattress that was compressed when it was delivered.

In my search for a replacement mattress, I tried the Morgongava at Ikea on a slatted base (same setup I have at home) and WOW – I really liked it! Even though initially it felt just a bit too soft (particularly when I sat on it) on my back it felt surprisingly supportive and very comfy for side sleeping. I still think a slightly firmer mattress would work better for me.

So, after trying the Morgongava, I’ve decided I am definitely going to go with an all latex 6” core, preferably zoned (like the Morgongava, even though I am not sure I really need a “zoned” core), and a cotton/wool quilted mattress cover. If needed, I could incorporate an all-natural 2” topper from sleeponlatex.com in 20 ILD which I was using prior to the Amazon purchase.

Which of the options below would more closely approximate a slightly firmer “Morgongava” core?


There is more about the different ways that one mattress can "approximate" another one in post #9 here but unless all the layers and components in a mattress are the same in both then the only reliable way to know how one mattress would compare to another one would be based on your own side by side testing (with either no or very little time in between because our memories for something as subjective as firmness or the "feel" of a mattress isn't very long lasting). Even smaller differences between two mattresses can make a surprisingly big difference for some people and when you have two mattresses that use different materials or designs (or the types and blends of latex are different) it's really not possible to know how they will compare for you unless you compare them in person.

If you are using a flexible support system under a mattress then this would also affect how the mattress would feel in terms of PPP compared to a solid non flexing support system.

If you can't compare two mattresses in real life ... then the only meaningful source of guidance about how two mattresses compare would be talking to a knowledgeable and experienced online retailer or manufacturer who was familiar with the mattress you are using as a reference point and how their own mattresses would compare to it. I would also keep in mind that two mattresses that feel very similar to some people may feel different for others that have a different body type, sleeping positions, or are more sensitive to smaller differences between two mattresses.

I would also be very careful about using one mattress as your ideal "target" because and I would suggest "rating" all the mattresses you test based on a common set of criteria that are part of your personal value equation ( see here ).

There is also more about the different ways to choose a mattress and how to minimize the risks and uncertainty involved with each of them in post #2 here .

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

HELP - Anything availabe that is slightly firmer than the Morgongava? 08 Dec 2014 09:35 #3

  • Cfrivera
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We stopped by a local Savvy Rest dealer in Minneapolis (Moss Envy) and tried out their various 3" (Dunlop) layered latex configurations. I was surprised to notice that none of them felt quite as lively/springy as the Morgongava mattress at Ikea! I was also told by their sales people that Ikea's Luroy slatted base would NOT work with their latex mattresses - we have the Malm Storage bed shown here - ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40249876/#/40249881 - is that true??
ADMIN NOTE: Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40249876/#/40249881

After my experience with the Lucid mattress, I feel like purchasing latex materials to make a DYI mattress without first trying them out, would be another exercise in futility. There are so many variations in the "feel" of latex of a given ILD based on materials used, manufacturing processes, etc. I really liked the Morgongava mattress, but would prefer it just a little firmer - is it possible Mountain Top Foam makes a firmer version of the Morgongava for another vendor?

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HELP - Anything availabe that is slightly firmer than the Morgongava? 08 Dec 2014 13:35 #4

  • phoenix
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Hi Cfrivera,

We stopped by a local Savvy Rest dealer in Minneapolis (Moss Envy) and tried out their various 3" (Dunlop) layered latex configurations. I was surprised to notice that none of them felt quite as lively/springy as the Morgongava mattress at Ikea! I was also told by their sales people that Ikea's Luroy slatted base would NOT work with their latex mattresses - we have the Malm Storage bed shown here - ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40249876/#/40249881 - is that true??

ADMIN NOTE: Removed 404 page link | Archived Footprint: ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/40249876/#/40249881

The Luroy would change the feel of the mattress compared to a solid non flexing base so this would contribute to the feel and "springiness" of the mattress that was on top of it but if the combination is a suitable match for you in terms of PPP and the bed you are using (the Malm) also has a center beam with good support to the floor underneath it and if the bed itself is strong enough for the weight of the mattress and the person sleeping on it then it should be fine IMO.

I really liked the Morgongava mattress, but would prefer it just a little firmer - is it possible Mountain Top Foam makes a firmer version of the Morgongava for another vendor?


The firmness of a mattress depends on many factors including the thickess of the layers, the ILD of the layers, the type and blend of the latex (which affects the compression modulus of the material or how quickly it becomes firmer as you compress it more deeply) and the type of cover and quilting. There is more about the many variables that can affect the firmness of a material or a mattress in post #4 here but there are so many variables and the perception of firmness/softness is so subjective and relative to the body type, sleeping style, and sensitivity of each person that the only way to know how one mattress compares to another one with any certainty would be based on your own testing or experience.

Having said that ... it may be worth talking with Neal at Spindle Mattress who has the Blue Shoal mattress with two 3" layers of latex that also uses Mountaintop latex (except it's 100% natural instead of the 85% natural in the Morgongava) and if the layers were the same firmness (I believe that the Ikea uses C3 firmness in their mattress ... see post #70 here ) ... the slightly thinner layers and the higher natural latex content may give you the firmer result you are looking for although they may only sell it in a twin size because it's primarily designed for children or for lighter body weights.

Phoenix
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HELP - Anything availabe that is slightly firmer than the Morgongava? 25 Jun 2015 06:56 #5

  • bryan_p
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We bought a Morgongava mattress several weeks ago and I found it way too firm. After several hours laying on it, my hip got numb and my shoulder was sore. When I tried to sleep on my back I could feel the ridges in the latex foam digging into my spine. Not sure why they molded ridges in the foam but I felt like I was sleeping on a washboard. After two nights of little sleep, I promptly returned it for a full refund.

After reading this post, though, I am thoroughly confused. I was planning on building a mattress with a 3" Dunlop comfort layer with an ild of 20 which is the softest latex I could find. You say that ikea uses foam with a C3 firmness which is about 21 ild. Am I making a mistake? Will I end up with a mattress which is still too firm?

There's nowhere in the Ottawa area where we can go and just lay on some foam. The only latex mattress showroom other than Ikea is Essentia which is way out of our price range. Besides, I'm put off by all the hype that Essentia gets. I'm at a loss right now but we need a bed. Currently we are sleeping on a rock hard futon! Don't know how I slept on futons all these years....

Bryan.

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HELP - Anything availabe that is slightly firmer than the Morgongava? 25 Jun 2015 08:36 #6

  • phoenix
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Hi bryan_p,

After reading this post, though, I am thoroughly confused. I was planning on building a mattress with a 3" Dunlop comfort layer with an ild of 20 which is the softest latex I could find. You say that ikea uses foam with a C3 firmness which is about 21 ild. Am I making a mistake? Will I end up with a mattress which is still too firm?


ILD ratings are not always consistent between companies or between different types and blends of latex (see post #6 here ). In the case of Mountaintop, their 25% ILD range is lower than other Dunlop manufacturers and the bottom half of their 40% ILD range may be a little more comparable (see post #8 here ).

I would also keep in mind that ILD is also only one of several specs that makes one material feel softer or firmer than another (see post #4 here ) and different layers either on top or below another layer can also have a significant effect on how it feels so putting too much focus on ILD alone can often be more misleading than helpful.

If you are attracted to the idea of designing and building your own DIY mattress out of separate components and a separate cover then the first place I would start is by reading option 3 in post #15 here and the posts it links to (and option #1 and #2 as well) so that you have more realistic expectations and that you are comfortable with the learning curve, uncertainty, trial and error, or in some cases the higher costs that may be involved in the DIY process. While it can certainly be a rewarding project ... the best approach to a DIY mattress is a "spirit of adventure" where what you learn and the satisfaction that comes from the process itself is more important than any cost savings you may realize (which may or may not happen).

If you decide to take on the challenge then I would either use the specs (if they are available) of a mattress that you have tested and confirmed is a good match for you in terms of PPP as a reference point (the same type and blend of latex in the same thickness and firmness levels and a very similar cover which can also make a significant difference to the feel and performance of a mattress) or use a "bottom up" approach (see post #2 here ).

There's nowhere in the Ottawa area where we can go and just lay on some foam.


The better options or possibilities I'm aware of in the Ottawa area (subject to the quality/value guidelines here ) are listed in posts #2 and #3 here .

Some of the better online options I'm aware of that ship across Canada are also listed in post #21 here .

Phoenix
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