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HELP 01 Dec 2014 17:53 #1

  • Triumph3
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HELP! Okay, here is the quick and dirty of my situation- bought a seally pillow top 6 years ago & it was very comfortable for a year- fast forward to today and it turned into a hammock. Was having bad back pain so i figured it was time for a new mattress. My GF and I started shopping around town for a new mattress. She loves the pillow tops but after my last experience I figured it would be better to get a firm matress and soften it with a topper so it wont sag as quick as my last one. SO, ended up at raymour and flannigan because I was able to finance it. We both loved the feel of the beautyrest world class royal palms plush but it was a pillow top so I got the firm version which didn't feel all that firm in the store In order to avoid my previous experience. The last couple of weeks have been rough. my back pain is gone but my hips hurt and my shoulders. So we then purchased a 3in gel memory foam topper made by serta at Khols, and still the mattress is too firm and I am not a fan of the topper so I m going to return that.
The semi good news is I purchased a 30 day guarantee so we can exchange the mattress for another one there. But most of what they sell are brands that I should avoid. What do you recommend with this situation? should i try a latex topper and/or a feather bed? I am not a fan of memory foam so that is out. I owe 200k in student loans and work my butt off everyday so this purchase was suppose to help me feel relieved and rested and instead im just in pain. I wish I found the site sooner.
I am 5'8" 180lbs and sleep mostly on my side or back Im not sure if that will help with your advice

if you do recommend latex topper do you know anything about the following brands i was looking at ...obviously after spending 1300 dollars I would like to avoid spending a great deal more

sleep on latex - sleeponlatex.com/
www.ultimatesleep.com/talalay-latex-toppers

HELP 01 Dec 2014 20:09 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi Triumph3,

I wish I found the site sooner.


I wish you had found us sooner as well since it would have helped you avoid all of the choices you ended up making ... but of course that didn't happen so the best that can happen now is to make the best of a difficult situation where you really don't have any great options available to you (unless you were somehow able to get a refund for your mattress and start all over again using a very different approach to finding a mattress).

She loves the pillow tops but after my last experience I figured it would be better to get a firm matress and soften it with a topper so it wont sag as quick as my last one. SO, ended up at raymour and flannigan because I was able to finance it. We both loved the feel of the beautyrest world class royal palms plush but it was a pillow top so I got the firm version which didn't feel all that firm in the store In order to avoid my previous experience.


Unfortunately you inadvertently ended up repeating your previous experience by buying a major brand mattress which has lower quality and less durable materials in the comfort layers ... even though they may be firmer. These are the types of mattresses I would avoid in any firmness level (see the guidelines here ).

You can also read my thoughts about buying a firmer mattress and then adding a topper afterwards in post #2 here and unless you can test the specific combination in person to make sure it's a good match for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) it can be a very risky approach that can be even more difficult than just finding a suitable mattress in the first place because choosing a topper that is a good match for both you and the mattress you are using it on can be a very uncertain process that involves some trial and error.

If you did choose to go in this direction then the Beautyrest world class royal palms firmBeautyrest world class royal palms firm is in a higher budget range than you would need if you are adding your own comfort layers in the form of a topper and I would probably have used a lower cost mattress as the "base" under your topper since by buying the Beautyrest world class royal palms firm you are really only buying foam layers (and lower quality at that) that you really don't need and that can be more of a liability than a benefit. While a topper will help with the durability of the Beautyrest world class royal palms firm ... it would still be a lower quality and less durable choice for a base mattress under a topper than I would normally consider.

The semi good news is I purchased a 30 day guarantee so we can exchange the mattress for another one there.


I'm not sure how helpful this is because their 45 day comfort guarantee only applies to mattresses in the same or higher price range and there isn't a higher priced mattress (or any mattress for that matter) that I would normally consider there and you would only be using good money to chase after bad IMO (unless they carry a mattress I don't know about that would be a good match for you in terms of PPP without a topper and where you can find out the specifics of all the layers to confirm that it doesn't have any weak links in the materials ... see this article ).

should i try a latex topper and/or a feather bed?


The choice of material for a topper is a personal preference so it would depend on how you like the feel and performance of latex. Latex is a very durable material and it can certainly make a good choice for a topper for those who like it but I would spend some time testing different types and firmness levels of latex in some local stores to get a better sense of whether you like the "feel" of latex and if you do which which type of latex you tend to prefer. There is more about the differences between memory foam and latex in post #2 here and there is more about the difference between the feel of Talalay and Dunlop latex in post #7 here .

I would tend to be cautious with a featherbed because it's more of a "feel" item that is much less resilient and supportive and less pressure relieving overall than a foam topper. There is more about featherbeds or fiberbeds in post #2 here and the other posts it links to.


So overall ... since you aren't experiencing any back pains on your mattress and it appears that all you need is some additional softness and pressure relief ... it seems to me that the best of some "not so good" options would be to choose a topper that is a good match for both you and your mattress so that you can add the additional softness and pressure relief that you need on your mattress. It would also have the side benefit of extending the useful life of your mattress as well so that the lower quality materials in the Beautyrest Black will soften and break down a little more slowly.

Once you have decided on the type of material that you would prefer in a topper (including testing some latex locally to see if you like how it feels in general terms) then post #2 here and the additional topper guidelines it links to can help you use your sleeping experience on your mattress to choose the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that would have the best chance of success. It also includes a link to some of the better online topper sources I'm aware of.

sleep on latex - sleeponlatex.com/


You can see my thoughts about Karl and Sleeponlatex in post #4 here and post #3 here and a forum search on " sleeponlatex " will bring up more information and feedback about them as well. They are one of the sources that are included in the topper list I linked and if you like Dunlop latex then they would certainly be worth talking with.

www.ultimatesleep.com/talalay-latex-toppers


You can read more of my thoughts about Ultimate Sleep in this topic and as you can see I would be very cautious here and would probably look elsewhere.

Phoenix
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HELP 05 Dec 2014 13:50 #3

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Thanks for the information. I am really not satisfied with the mattress. Is there any that you might choose at raymour and flannigan in the price range of 1200-500 dollars in terms of materials? I have the beauty-rest world-class recharge not the beauty-rest black, and have tried a memory foam and gel foam topper along with a feather bed and still no luck. I am running out of options here.

If you absolutley had to pick one that is sold there (seeing how Im locked in there now) www.raymourflanigan.com/Mattresses.aspx

could you make a recommendation- I know you do not recommend any of the brands there but if you had too choose a mattress there can you make a recommendation. I just cant accept eating 1300 dollars right now it truly is sickening.

HELP 06 Dec 2014 01:30 #4

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Hi Triumph3,

Thanks for the information. I am really not satisfied with the mattress. Is there any that you might choose at raymour and flannigan in the price range of 1200-500 dollars in terms of materials? I have the beauty-rest world-class recharge not the beauty-rest black, and have tried a memory foam and gel foam topper along with a feather bed and still no luck. I am running out of options here.



Thanks for clarifying that you have the Beautyrest world class royal palms firm. I know you mentioned it in your original post so I don't know where I somehow got the idea that you had a Beautyrest Black. The good news is that at least you are "locked in" to a lower budget range although my comments about too much lower quality polyfoam would still apply and the World Class has lower quality materials than the Black line. I've corrected the name of your mattress in my original reply.

There aren't any mattresses they sell that meet the guidelines I normally suggest which are "no more than about an inch or so of lower quality or unknown materials" in the comfort layers. If price was no object I would consider an Aireloom if I could confirm that they met the guidelines here in terms of PPP and the quality of the materials inside them but they are also about twice the cost that I would consider paying for them.

If you absolutley had to pick one that is sold there (seeing how Im locked in there now) www.raymourflanigan.com/Mattresses.aspx

could you make a recommendation- I know you do not recommend any of the brands there but if you had too choose a mattress there can you make a recommendation. I just cant accept eating 1300 dollars right now it truly is sickening.


I'm happy to help with "how" to choose but there are too many unknowns and variables involved to make specific recommendations for someone else (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ). This is compounded by the fact that the specifics of the quality and thickness of all the materials in the mattress aren't available.

If I was in your shoes and needed to make the best of a difficult situation and had to exchange a mattress where there were no particularly good options available to me ... I would use one of the two strategies that are outlined in post #2 here .

Since the first strategy wouldn't be possible because all the mattresses in your budget range that would likely be a suitable match for you in terms of PPP without a topper would also have too much lower quality materials in the comfort layers and would have a significant weak link in their design ... I would suggest the second strategy which is to exchange for a mattress that uses the least possible amount of lower quality or unknown materials which would be in a firmer range than you were comfortable with and then add the additional comfort and pressure relief you would need in the form of a topper. Once you have decided on a mattress for an exchange ... I would first sleep on your mattress for a few days (as uncomfortable as that may be) so you can use your own sleeping experience along with the suggestions in the topper guidelines to help you decide on the type, thickness, and firmness for a topper that would have the best chance of success.

A foam topper (either memory foam, latex foam, or polyfoam) would provide better overall pressure relief and secondary support than a featherbed or a fiber bed. There is more about primary and secondary support and their relationship to pressure relief and firmness in post #4 here and in post #2 here .

I would tend to choose between memory foam and latex depending on which one you tend to prefer. There is more about how they compare in post #2 here but the best way to know for certain which one you tend to prefer would be based on your own personal testing on different types and firmness levels of each one. I personally prefer the more resilient feel of latex but other people may have very different preferences than I do and may not like the feel of latex at all. If budget is your biggest concern then I would also consider a good quality polyfoam topper (the material that you will find in most sofas) which will also be more resilient and "lively" than memory foam.

In looking at the Raymour & Flanigan site ... and assuming that you are looking at a king size ... there are only 5 "firm" mattresses between $1000 and $1500.

Beautyrest® Recharge™ Kimble Glen Firm King Mattress Listed at $999

The layers that they list outside of the fire retardant barrier (which may not be complete) include ...

2 x 1" AirCool® foam quilt layers
0.5" GelTouch™ foam
0.5" AirCool® memory foam
1" firm energy foam upholstery layers

Assuming that there aren't any missing layers that aren't included in the description ... this is a total of at least 4.0" of unknown density/quality material.


Posturepedic® Foster Lane Firm King Mattress listed at $1149

The layers that they list outside of the fire retardant barrier (which may not be complete) include ...

2" Aloft™ quilt layers
0.5" gel memory foam
4" ActiveFlex™ foam
0.5" CoreSupport™ center

Again .. assuming that there aren't any missing layers ... this is a total of 6.5" of unknown density/quality materials


Beautyrest® Recharge™ World Class® Royal Palms Firm King Mattress Listed at $1379

The layers that they list outside of the fire retardant barrier (which may not be complete) include ...

1.25" AirFeel foam
1" AirCool® foam quilt layers
0.5" TruTemp™ Gel foam
2" energy foam

Again ... assuming that there aren't any missing layers ... this is a total of 4.75" of unknown density/quality materials.


Serta iSeries® Aficionado Firm King Mattress Listed at $1499

The layers that they list outside of the fire retardant barrier (which may not be complete) include ...

.75" Cool Action™ Dual Effects gel memory foam
1" Serta® Support Foam

Once again ... assuming that there aren't any missing layers ... this is a total of 1.75" of unknown density/quality materials.


Posturepedic® Hybrid Trust Cushion Firm King Mattress Listed at $1499

The layers that they list outside of the fire retardant barrier (which may not be complete) include ...

1" OptiCool™ gel memory foam
2" ActiveFlex™ foam

Once again assuming that there aren't any missing layers ... this is a total of 3" of unknown density/quality materials.

Based on these specs ... and assuming once again that there are no layers that are missing in the descriptions ... then it would seem that the Serta was the closest to meeting the criteria of having the "least possible" amount of lower quality or unknown materials.

Phoenix
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HELP 06 Dec 2014 11:57 #5

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Thank you so much I will be looking in to switching it out for the best bad mattress you recommended! Also, I am thinking about purchasing the 3 inch talalay soft latex topper from ultimate sleep. I contacted them and they told me its 80% synthetic and 20% rubber. Is there any drawback with the 80% synthetic. I read on the other post that its purely preference but seeing how I do not have many resources around me for latex i thought I would get your opinion.

HELP 06 Dec 2014 17:29 #6

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Hi Triumph3,

Also, I am thinking about purchasing the 3 inch talalay soft latex topper from ultimate sleep.


I linked this in a previous reply as well but you can read more of my thoughts about Ultimate Sleep in this topic . The toppers they are selling aren't Talalay latex and I would be very cautious here and would probably look elsewhere for a topper.

Phoenix
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HELP 07 Dec 2014 08:29 #7

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My apologizes when I read it quickly I had thought that sleeponlatex was the one you advised against. I guess I will continue my search for a talalay elswhere

HELP 07 Dec 2014 19:25 #8

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Hi Triumph3,

No problem ... I just wanted to make sure you weren't thinking that you were really buying Talalay latex :)

Phoenix
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