TOPIC:

We purchased our king-sized Ikea Edsele 7" mattress (roughly the equivalent of the current Morgongava) about 18 months ago. In the store in felt medium-firm and had 2 out of 3 Ikea "dots" for firmness. I was actually exchanging the Holmsta mattress we had originally purchased, for which I felt the latex surface was too 'sinky' and the springs underneath too uncomfortable (my husband makes princess and the pea jokes ALL the time). I believe the Edsele in the store was softer than the one we took home, which is definitely firm. It hasn't softened up over time, and it's likely that we probably received a slightly firmer batch variation.

Originally we had the Edsele on flat slats, which was *very firm*, so we exchanged the slats for the Laxeby slats and put them on the absolutely softest (softer than Ikea recommends) setting, which gave the mattress enough spring to be ok. Under normal circumstances I find the firmness bearable sleeping on my side with the exception of sore shoulders, but I cannot sleep in the center of the bed where the support bar is. Now I'm 20 weeks pregnant, I'm waking up with the very sore hips that I had got in my first pregnancy on a "good" inner-spring mattress. So, time to buy a mattress topper (probably 3") for the Ikea Edsele. Without knowing the Edsele ILD rating, I'm finding it hard to judge what ILD topper to get.

I went to a local store and tried a topper that felt far too soft - my hips sunk right in and it felt too cushy. I believe it was a Rejunivite topper so was probably a 19 or 21 ILD. I also tried a Sherwood all-latex mattress and that was just heavenly - somehow supportive but lush at the same time. I sunk in enough without losing my hips in there. However I don't know what the comfort layer ILD rating was, I'm guessing it was a Talalay medium.

I've narrowed it down to a medium 25 or 28 ILD Talalay topper, but have found enough conflicting information online to be confused. I'm worried the 25 may be too soft, and the 28 too firm. My husband is 5'10 and 204 pounds, I'm 5'8 and normally about 160lb, currently 175lb pregnant, with wide hips, average shoulders and long term neck-shoulder discomfort. I'm also wondering whether it could be worth making the effort to seek out a zoned topper (28 ILD?) to account for my hips and shoulders, rather than a solid body topper which seem easier to find. Alternatively I thought perhaps a solid 25 ILD topper with a wool/cotton cover to increase the surface tautness. Any thoughts welcome, I've been reading all day and going a bit crazy

Hi bixntin,

Originally we had the Edsele on flat slats, which was *very firm*, so we exchanged the slats for the Laxeby slats and put them on the absolutely softest (softer than Ikea recommends) setting, which gave the mattress enough spring to be ok. Under normal circumstances I find the firmness bearable sleeping on my side with the exception of sore shoulders, but I cannot sleep in the center of the bed where the support bar is. Now I'm 20 weeks pregnant, I'm waking up with the very sore hips that I had got in my first pregnancy on a "good" inner-spring mattress. So, time to buy a mattress topper (probably 3") for the Ikea Edsele. Without knowing the Edsele ILD rating, I'm finding it hard to judge what ILD topper to get.

The Ikea latex in their mattresses is made by Mountaintop Foam and is a C3 firmness ( see here ) but this may not help you much unless you purchase a Mountaintop Latex topper that is softer than C3 because the ILD ratings for different types of latex don't match up well to each other (see post #6 here ).

Unfortunately there are too many unknowns and variables involved to use specs (either yours, the mattress, or the topper) or theory as a reliable way to predict which topper would work best for you on your mattress and your own actual experience is the only way to really know this but having said that ... post #2 here and the topper guidelines that it links to can help you use your sleeping experience to choose the type, thickness, and firmness of a topper that would have the best possible chance of success and links to some of the better topper sources I'm aware of as well (including some that have exchange or return options as well in case you make a choice that isn't ideal for you).

Phoenix

Thanks for your reply Phoenix. The Mountaintop Foam C3 firmness is rated an equivalence of about 21.5-24.5 ILD, so as you said it's hard to judge the equivalence of that to other latex formulations as my experience is certainly that it feels firm rather than medium. On the other hand the 20% natural latex layer on the Holmsta was very soft so I feel it must have been a lower rating than the C3.

It is difficult trying to figure it out without a lot of toppers or mattresses to try. The store I was in only had that one single topper! I have also tried the Ikea toppers and not liked them a lot. I keep thinking about the Sherwood and how the tactile feel was very different - somehow more dense but equally soft resulting in softness and support. Right now I'm pinning my hopes on the difference being the difference between Dunlop and Talalay. There is one other store I can try but they are mostly a Savvy Rest dealer and coy about the ILD ratings. However it may help me figure out if Talalay is the right surface. Thanks for reinforcing the returnability of the topper - I was tempted by a special deal on a 25 ILD topper by mattresses.net/Arizona but it is non-returnable. I'm thinking I'll try a slightly more expensive 22-24 ILD topper from sleeponlatex.com or flexuscomfort.com. I like that sleeponlatex.com have 1" toppers available in 100% natural. Unfortunately I found the Ikea Edsele had an unpleasant off-gassing smell for about 6 weeks which makes me concerned about butadiene with young babies around. I know that the blends are supposed to be ok for VOCs but butadiene is apparently toxic in such tiny amounts that I'd probably have peace of mind with a thin layer of natural latex on top of a blend. This could mean buying a 1" natural and 2" blend.

I could afford a 3" natural but I only just realized that much of the natural rubber tree latex comes from plantations mostly from deforestation in SE Asia. My mother is a wheelchair bound old lady who spends her time as a fervent orangutan activist, so I have spent most of my life trying to avoid palm oil, non-FSC certified wood, and beef (S/America deforestation, but similar deal). Consequently I believe - contrary to the greenwashing on the internet - that a synthetic/blended latex from petrochemicals probably has less of an environmental impact than the demand for natural latex which fuels rapid deforestation, increasing CO2 levels and causing species extinction. Which brings me to my next question. Do you know of any suppliers that claim to use latex grown from trees that have been maintained in an existing diverse forestry environment, or any kind of sustainable forestry claim? I haven't had luck with internet searches. Another uncomfortable night has left me desperate to get something but now I'm having trouble reconciling that my hips are more important than an orangutan's forest.

Hi bixentin,

Thanks for your reply Phoenix. The Mountaintop Foam C3 firmness is rated an equivalence of about 21.5-24.5 ILD, so as you said it's hard to judge the equivalence of that to other latex formulations as my experience is certainly that it feels firm rather than medium. On the other hand the 20% natural latex layer on the Holmsta was very soft so I feel it must have been a lower rating than the C3.

With other types of latex an ILD of 21.5 - 24.5 would be in the soft or medium soft range and I think that most people would agree that the Ikea latex feels firmer than that. ILD is also not the only spec that affects how soft or firm a latex layer will feel so by itself it can sometimes be misleading (see post #4 here ). Synthetic latex has a lower compression modulus (the rate that a material gets firmer as you compress it more deeply) so with latex that has a higher synthetic latex content ... even if it had the same 25% ILD it would feel softer to many people.

Neal at Spindle sells the Mountaintop latex and is familiar with the feel of other types of latex as well and would probably be the best source of guidance about how the Mountaintop ILD's relate to other types of latex.

I found the Ikea Edsele had an unpleasant off-gassing smell for about 6 weeks which makes me concerned about butadiene with young babies around. I know that the blends are supposed to be ok for VOCs but butadiene is apparently toxic in such tiny amounts that I'd probably have peace of mind with a thin layer of natural latex on top of a blend.

The butadiene in synthetic latex is styrene butadiene so just like the chlorine in salt (sodium chloride) it can be more harmful when it's by itself but is less harmful when it's chemically bound to another substance. You can also see the limit value for Butadiene in the Oeko-Tex testing criteria here and .002 mg/m3 is very low (and this is the upper limit of the test not the actual amount in any sample). This is about 1 ppb and is approaching the amount of butadiene in ambient air in urban or suburan air primarily from car exhaust (which averages about .3 ppb). There is also more information about butadiene exposure here . Having said all that ... these types of numbers can still be confusing and difficult for most people to translate into terms that are meaningful in "real life" so I do understand your concern and the "better safe than sorry" approach.

I could afford a 3" natural but I only just realized that much of the natural rubber tree latex comes from plantations mostly from deforestation in SE Asia. My mother is a wheelchair bound old lady who spends her time as a fervent orangutan activist, so I have spent most of my life trying to avoid palm oil, non-FSC certified wood, and beef (S/America deforestation, but similar deal). Consequently I believe - contrary to the greenwashing on the internet - that a synthetic/blended latex from petrochemicals probably has less of an environmental impact than the demand for natural latex which fuels rapid deforestation, increasing CO2 levels and causing species extinction.

I also understand your concerns here. While most latex plantations in SE Asia are now fairly mature ecosystems that don't contribute to deforestation or CO2 issues as much as they did when they were first planted ... this can certainly be an issue in countries or areas where primary forests are being replaced by tree plantations (cocoa, coconut, rubber, oil palm). As you know these are all personal decisions that each person needs to make based on their own personal convictions.

Do you know of any suppliers that claim to use latex grown from trees that have been maintained in an existing diverse forestry environment, or any kind of sustainable forestry claim?

No I don't ... but if there was I think that it would most likely come from South American production where the rubber tree is a native species rather than SE Asia or Africa where they aren't and the vast majority of natural rubber that is used in mattresses comes from SE Asia.

Phoenix