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Help with Sherwood mattress choices - Lumina Cadence Luxury Firm too soft 31 Mar 2014 12:23 #1

  • Jae
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Bought a Lumina Cadence Luxury Firm, which has softened quite a bit.

Sherwood is being kind enough to let me trade the mattress in for another of their mattresses. I've always slept on a Chattam & Wells firm mattress.

I have fibromyalgia and was hoping the LF would relieve pressure on pressure points, but I can't sleep when I feel like I'm sinking into a mattress.

Any thoughts on how to get a truly firm (but not hard) high-quality mattress from Sherwood?

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Help with Sherwood mattress choices - Lumina Cadence Luxury Firm too soft 31 Mar 2014 14:12 #2

  • phoenix
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Hi Jae,

There is no standard definition of firmness that is consistent between manufacturers and the firmness or softness of a mattress is also very subjective depending on the type of firmness or softness that you are most sensitive to (see post #15 here ).

There is also no consistency between the firmness ratings of different manufacturers and one manufacturer's firmness rating of medium may be rated as firm by another manufacturer. There is no consensus in other words about what the different "word ratings" really mean.

The perception of firmness and softness is also relative to each person's body type, sleeping positions, individual sensitivity, and preferences.

There are also different specs that can contribute to the sensation of softness or firmness (see post #4 here ) and the interaction between them can be difficult to predict because they can be different for different people.

For example you may need softer comfort layers for pressure relief for your fibromyalgia and firmer support layers for good alignment.

Because there are so many unknowns, variables, and preferences involved ... it's not really possible or someone else to know for certain which mattress you would describe as firm or soft or would be best for you. The most effective way to decide which mattress is the best "match" for you in terms of PPP (Posture and alignment, Pressure relief, and Personal preferences) would be your own personal testing or experience hopefully using the testing guidelines that are linked in the tutorial post .

If you can't test a mattress in person then your best odds of success would be a more detailed conversation with a manufacturer or retailer where you can provide them with more information about you and your experiences on different mattresses that you have tested or used that they are familiar with so they can use the information you provide to give you some "best efforts" guidance about which of the mattresses they make or sell would most likely be the best match for you (see mattress firmness/comfort levels in post #2 here ).

Regardless of which mattress you end up choosing ... I would make sure that you know the quality of the materials inside it (see post #4 here ) so that you can make sure that your mattress doesn't use lower quality/density materials or have any "weak links" in the design that can soften much more quickly than higher quality materials and result in the premature loss of comfort or support.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help with Sherwood mattress choices - Lumina Cadence Luxury Firm too soft 01 Apr 2014 14:54 #3

  • Jae
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Actually, I was hoping for more specific help - the Lumina Cadence Luxury Firm has a firm base, but the foam topper got quite a bit softer.

To keep a mattress as firm as it s in the showroom (keeping in mind I don't want horrible pressure on pressure points), is it better to skip pillow toppers altogether? And if so, is foam/latex a totally bad choice?

Thanks!

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Help with Sherwood mattress choices - Lumina Cadence Luxury Firm too soft 01 Apr 2014 18:03 #4

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Hi Jae,

Actually, I was hoping for more specific help -


Unfortunately ... only you can feel what you feel on a mattress so the only way to choose a mattress that is the best match for you is your own personal testing or experience. While I'm always happy to help with "how" to choose ... it's really not possible to give that kind of specific advice based on mattress specs or "theory at a distance".

the Lumina Cadence Luxury Firm has a firm base, but the foam topper got quite a bit softer.

To keep a mattress as firm as it s in the showroom (keeping in mind I don't want horrible pressure on pressure points), is it better to skip pillow toppers altogether? And if so, is foam/latex a totally bad choice?


This is the part where it's possible to be a little more specific. A mattress or sleeping system will soften and break down from the top down and all foam materials (or toppers) will get softer over time to different degrees and there is no way to avoid this. This will happen much more slowly with higher quality and more durable materials though than it will with lower quality materials which is why in addition to making sure you do some careful and objective testing for PPP ... it's just as important to make sure you know the quality/durability of the materials inside any mattress you choose ... especially in the upper layers.

The issue is not so much with pillowtops themselves but with the quality of the materials inside the pillowtop. Higher quality and more durable materials will always stay closer to their original properties over a longer period of time than lower quality materials. The general guidelines I would use are in post #4 here . If you can find out the information you need about what's inside any mattress you are considering and post it on the forum then I'd also be happy to make some comments about the quality of the materials or make some general comments about the mattress.

There is also more about the factors that can affect the durability and useful life of a mattress relative to each person in post #4 here . I would also keep in mind that "just enough" thickness and softness in the comfort layers to relieve pressure points in your most pressure prone position (usually side sleeping) is usually a safer and more durable choice because if you choose a mattress that is "on the edge" of being too soft for you then even a relatively small amount of foam softening can put you outside the range of support/alignment or comfort/pressure relief that is suitable for you even if the materials themselves are still nowhere near the end of their useful life and the mattress could still be fine for someone else for many years (see post #2 here ). In other words choosing a mattress that isn't "on the edge" of being too soft initially is also a big part of how long a mattress will be suitable for you to sleep on.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.

Help with Sherwood mattress choices - Lumina Cadence Luxury Firm too soft 12 Apr 2014 16:51 #5

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Went back to the retailer today to see about changing to a firmer mattress. Didn't really find any of their mattresses to be the right feel -- the Cadence w/o the pillow top feels too firm, even for me, which was why I got the pillow top version in the first place. But their firm gel mattress felt too soft.

Oddly, when I sat down to put my shoes back on, I sat on an Aireloom extra firm memory foam mattress that felt just right. But i know how you feel about them. And I can only exchange for another Sherwood.

Any ideas about choosing a slightly too firm pocket coil mattress versus a slightly too soft medical gel foam one?

Here's the info I was able to get from Sherwood, which seems a bit vague.

1. What are the thicknesses and densities (e.g., pounds per cubit foot) of each of the polyfoam layers?

No less than 1.5 lb density foam throughout. Upholstery layers are 1.65 and 1.8 lb in density. 2" of Ultra HD 6.5 lb. density gel-infused memory foam found in the pillow top directly under the quilt package.

2. What are the support factors and resiliency factors of each of the foam layers?

See above. Support factors are determined primarily by foam density. With regard to resiliency, in all layers we are using pre-compressed soy-based foams to help eliminate impressions and shorten the break-in period.

3. Where were the materials manufactured and have they been Certipur certified?

Our mattresses are manufactured in Phoenix, AZ and most layers we use are CertiPUR US certified.

4. For the Cadence, Sherwood lists the coil gauge, but not the number. Would like to know that, though the information on the comfort layers is probably more important.

The Cadence utilizes an individually wrapped coil unit with 910 coils in a Queen. Wire gauge is 14.

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Help with Sherwood mattress choices - Lumina Cadence Luxury Firm too soft 12 Apr 2014 17:52 #6

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Hi Jae,

Any ideas about choosing a slightly too firm pocket coil mattress versus a slightly too soft medical gel foam one?


I would personally prefer a choice that was ideal in terms of PPP and it also depends on whether by too soft you are referring to "surface feel" softness, "pressure relief" softness, "support" softness or "overall" softness (see post #15 here ) but if I had to choose between a mattress that was a little too soft or one that was a little too firm I would always choose a mattress that was a little too firm because you can always add some additional softness or pressure relief with a mattress pad or a topper but if a mattress is too soft then there are no great ways "fix" it and make it any firmer without removing and replacing the layers that are too soft.

1. What are the thicknesses and densities (e.g., pounds per cubit foot) of each of the polyfoam layers?

No less than 1.5 lb density foam throughout. Upholstery layers are 1.65 and 1.8 lb in density. 2" of Ultra HD 6.5 lb. density gel-infused memory foam found in the pillow top directly under the quilt package.


While these specs aren't specific enough to make any meaningful comments because they don't include the specific layering or thickness of each layer ... they appear to be OK in terms of quality/durability and are likely better than most mainstream choices. Quality specs are important to know but they don't say anything about the suitability of a mattress in terms of PPP which is why your own careful and objective testing is so important.

2. What are the support factors and resiliency factors of each of the foam layers?

See above. Support factors are determined primarily by foam density. With regard to resiliency, in all layers we are using pre-compressed soy-based foams to help eliminate impressions and shorten the break-in period.


These are specs that very few retailers or manufacturers would (or even should) provide because they are well aware that it would have no practical use or meaning to anyone outside of an experienced manufacturer or mattress designer and aren't specs that are meaningful or necessary for a consumer to know. These types of specs would do more to confuse than help 99.9% of consumers because they wouldn't have the knowledge or experience to understand what they mean in "real life". Foam densities are the "quality specs" you need for polyfoam and memory foam and the others that are much less important or that you can "feel" when you test or sleep on a mattress aren't necessary.

4. For the Cadence, Sherwood lists the coil gauge, but not the number. Would like to know that, though the information on the comfort layers is probably more important.


They would probably be able to tell you the coil count and I would want to know as well but as you mentioned the coils aren't normally the weak link of a mattress and your testing will tell you whether a specific innerspring in combination with the rest of the materials in the mattress are suitable for you.

Getting overinvolved in specs is a sure way to reach information overload and "paralysis by analysis" especially when the specs you are asking about (outside of the quality specs mentioned here ) aren't nearly as important as your actual experience.

Phoenix
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Last edit: by phoenix.
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