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Help with layering combinations 05 Feb 2014 17:24 #31

  • Diane37
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Thanks Phoenix,

The omalon 1 1/2 " convoluted foam is 22ild. At first I thought it was pressure relieving but it actually is very firm for it's thickness. It does not help anywhere in my comfort layers. I will use it to firm up my sofa bed.

Do you have a suggestion for which type of 1" polyfoam I should try? Are they all rather hot? Are there any that won't have an odor and maybe plant based?

Diane

Help with layering combinations 05 Feb 2014 18:07 #32

  • phoenix
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Hi Diane37,

The omalon 1 1/2 " convoluted foam is 22ild. At first I thought it was pressure relieving but it actually is very firm for it's thickness. It does not help anywhere in my comfort layers. I will use it to firm up my sofa bed.


I would keep in mind that the firmness of any specific layer depends a lot on what is either over or under it so the firmness of the layer itself may be misleading.

Do you have a suggestion for which type of 1" polyfoam I should try? Are they all rather hot? Are there any that won't have an odor and maybe plant based?


The main difference in polyfoam is the densities (higher densities are more durable) and in their ILD (softness/firmness) although there are many other more technical differences between them that can affect the "feel" but these will be less important (and much more difficult to understand or "translate" into something meaningful).

Because there is no way to know what will work best for someone else in combination with the layers they have ... either a low cost for a polyfoam topper (so the risk is less) or a good return policy (such as from a big box store) could both be important parts of the choice and your trial and error process. I would certainly go softer than the omalon topper you currently have (which would be less than 22 ILD if it's rated correctly because convoluting makes the effective ILD a fair bit softer than the rating).

If the density is lower and the layer you buy doesn't last as long then you can always buy a higher quality polyfoam topper with similar specs that will last you longer but the first step is always to find the basic combination that works best for you.

Phoenix
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Help with layering combinations 07 Feb 2014 14:07 #33

  • Diane37
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I talked to a few mattress people at Sleepez and Mattressexpert to see if they have any advice for my configuration. I am just not comfortable with my comfort layers. I feel that from bottom to top: N4, N5, N3 or N5, N4, N3 is the right start. My dunlop 2" topper just doesn't work for me, with or without any of my other materials. This is the only soft layer that I have to work with on top and like dn said, I think I am going right through to the N3 layer. I am not sleeping well, really quite sore in the morning, and very aware of the pressure up and down my body while side sleeping.

Sleepez recommends a 3" 20 ild blended talalay layer an top. He think that I need the 3" for total pressure relief for my size and side sleeping.

Mattressexpert recommends all natural talalay, (which is what they sell), 2" N1 or 2" N2 on top... says most people need just the 2" N1 for comfort/pressure relief.

I feel that I need to make a purchase as I am not doing well with my "comfort" materials as is. The bamboo/poly mattress pad messes with the latex support and the wool fleece does the same. I would like to also buy a Sleepez 4 way stretch cover if I ever complete this mattress to a point where it is somewhat comfortable.

Any thoughts about the two options that these companies suggested? Not sure if an N1 2" would feel like my 14-16 ild 2" dunlop (mostly synthetic).

Thanks,

Diane

Help with layering combinations 07 Feb 2014 16:03 #34

Hi Diane,

You will need to decide for your own reasons what makes sense to you, as is always the case.

1. I'd first decide if Phoenix is onto something with respect to trying a soft poly foam on top. If you don't prefer the feel of latex then all of the latex options won't help.

2. In a similar circumstance, my approach has been buy everything. I would probably get both a 2" layer of N1 and also a 2" layer of N2. The logic I would use is below:
- it would keep in the spirit of using all natural talalay
- I've seen several mattresses with layerings similar to 2" of 19 ild over 2" of 24 ild, so some people like that
- for me, when I order (and maybe as a general statement in all of Canada), shipping costs are higher. So there can be a significant penalty in shipping costs to order 1, try it, and then order the second.
- i find I need to compare things, to be able to make a determination about things, therefore having only 1 layer would still leave me with an unanswered question, even if the layer I ordered were ideal.
- I have sufficient financial means to do so, and am working on lower cost twinxl plates.

..you may, or may not, find elements of my logic helpful.

Help with layering combinations 07 Feb 2014 16:13 #35

  • Diane37
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Actually, yes, very logical dn... if I can swing it, I'd love to buy both. Any thoughts about the difference between natural talalay and blended in the comfort layers?

dn, do you have a favorite place to buy latex?

I do like the feel of latex, but I haven't had a comfort layer that has worked for me, so I imagine it would feel great if it's right!

Where do you keep all of your discarded layers/materials? I think I might donate them soon.

Diane

Help with layering combinations 07 Feb 2014 17:37 #36

Hi Diane,

For bare latex layers, I've been ordering from a Canadian vendor, sleepys.ca. If you're in the USA, I'd think there easier choices.

I understand that natural and blended talalay feel the same. For the talalay I got, I did blended. Now that I think of it, blended would also be an excellent choice if the latex is from latex international, since they feel in the softer ranges the blended may be more durable.

My discarded layers are either stored, thrown out for the cheap poly foam, or going into a new mattress I'm making. I have enough for a second twinxl :)

Help with layering combinations 07 Feb 2014 20:18 #37

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Hi Diane37,

This is the only soft layer that I have to work with on top and like dn said, I think I am going right through to the N3 layer.


You will "go through" any topper to some degree because the topper isn't the only layer that will compress so it's more a matter of degree or "how much" it will compress. Both a thicker topper or a slightly firmer topper will isolate you more from the "feel" of the N3 below it but thicker/softer will have a softer overall "feel" and create a deeper pressure relieving cradle than a firmer thinner layer which will have a firmer feel on the sleeping surface. In other words ... all the top layers of a mattress will compress to different degrees depending on the specific combination of layers.

Any thoughts about the two options that these companies suggested? Not sure if an N1 2" would feel like my 14-16 ild 2" dunlop (mostly synthetic).


The N1 would be more "resilient and "springy" than your 2" 14 ILD topper but the ILD would probably be close to the same and the thickness is also the same so if you aren't doing well with the 2" Dunlop topper then a similar topper in Talalay may not be the choice with the highest odds of success.

My only caution with the 3" of 20 ILD (which would be a suitable layer based on "averages") is that it would be fairly similar to the original N2 (which is somewhere in a range of 20 - 25 ILD) that you didn't like and ended up exchanging (although as you mentioned you may have made the exchange a little too quickly). It would probably be a little bit softer than the N2.

As dn mentioned ... it may also be true that you may do best with a less resilient layer on top of the latex in which case you may not prefer sleeping directly on any latex layer.

I think you've probably seen this but there is a list of latex topper suppliers in post #4 here . One of the advantages of buying a topper/layer from SleepEz is that they allow returns (less shipping) which is unusual. Sleep Like a Bear also has a return policy for toppers and Brooklyn Bedding has an exchange policy. Some of the others may as well but I'm not sure of the specifics. If you are uncertain about whether something will work for you then the return policy for a topper or layer may be an important consideration.

Phoenix
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Help with layering combinations 10 Feb 2014 14:50 #38

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Sorry that this thread is never ending, but I have been figuring things out from your responses. Thank you so much.

When I originally decided to exchange my N2, I still had the stiff, thick cover on the layers, with the N2 at the top, then N3, then N4.
It had a severe hammock effect. I sent it back thinking that I needed firmer, so I got an N5. I guess my mid body was sinking and my upper body and legs were not and I had all kinds of aches and pains. After I had the N5, I read in the forum about the effects of a cover, and I ended up cutting it off. I could not even feel that the layers were made of latex, that's how this particular cover affected the feel.

Therefore, I never really felt an N2 at the top of my mattress.

At this point, I am on this configuration.

top to bottom: Bamboo/poly mattress pad
2" 14 ild dunlop
1 1/2" wool fleece
3" N3
3" N4
3" N5

So this has helped a little more with pressure, but I still would like the support of all latex without the added materialsfor pressure relief. The mattress pad and wool fleece ruins the feel but I need them for now. Although I realize that down the line, I may need a thin piece of polyfoam in the mix, I do like the feel of latex,. I feel like I never had the right comfort layer.

After my testing and reading about other people's layer configurations, there is no doubt that mine is too firm for me and I need to make another layer purchase. My dunlop 2" topper 14 ild is probably too thin or too soft or both.

I'm thinking about these:

2" 19 ild talatech topper.
3" 19 ild talatech topper
2" N2 or N1
3" N2

I think the necessity to add more materials to my 2" dunlop for p. relief ( and it still isn't enough) shows that I may need 3 inches.
I'm so cautious now after all my mistakes that I can't pull the trigger on another piece of latex. Ugh!!!

Help with layering combinations 10 Feb 2014 15:10 #39

  • CentralPA
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Hi Diane37,

One of the advantages of buying a topper/layer from SleepEz is that they allow returns (less shipping) which is unusual.


I purchased their topper for my new bed and what I was told was they allow a 30 day return policy versus their bed which is a 90 day return policy.

Help with layering combinations 10 Feb 2014 19:35 #40

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Hi Diane37,

I've added the description and results of your current layering to the reference post here.

Your current configuration is a little too different from the others and a little too "random" (too many changes compared to the others) for me to read much into it but hopefully you are gaining some clarity about what may work for you.


If I was in your shoes and wanted to add another layer of latex I would probably consider trying 3" of blended Talalay in the range of 19 ILD or so and would make sure that you are comfortable with the exchange or return policy "just in case".

This and the layers you already have would hopefully be all you need to find a configuration that comes as close as possible to what you need.

Phoenix
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